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General => VR Challenge => Topic started by: Hannes on March 09, 2016, 08:13:01 PM

Title: Hannes - My home is my castle - WIP
Post by: Hannes on March 09, 2016, 08:13:01 PM
OK, is this the right place for WIPs?
About two weeks ago I was just about to post an image, when I accidentally read about the VR challenge. I had created an interior scene with the well known Sponza Atrium model and a beautiful leather sofa from "Cadnav.com" and some more models from there.
So then I decided to give it a go. I don't know yet if this scene will work in a VR environment, but there's nothing to lose. In the meantime I added loads of models, so that there is some stuff everywhere the camera points to.
I had to rework the texturing of almost every model. Sometimes completely, so it was a lot of work so far, but I love it. I'd love to live in a place like this!

Here are three views of this scene. Still some work to do, and then I'll have to find some nice places to put the camera(s).
Title: Re: Hannes - My home is my castle - WIP
Post by: yossam on March 09, 2016, 08:25:25 PM
Nice............... :D
Title: Re: Hannes - My home is my castle - WIP
Post by: Hannes on March 09, 2016, 08:34:48 PM
Thanks Yossam!
Funny, I got some sort of caustics as well. Wasn't intended, but since I had to use a very high transparency value for the beer I got it for free!
Actually it's probably the light bouncing off the beer mesh (?)

Beer is magic!!!
Title: Re: Hannes - My home is my castle - WIP
Post by: Oshyan on March 09, 2016, 08:44:59 PM
That's a GISD effect, I believe. Unintentional but cool.

Nice scene!

- Oshyan
Title: Re: Hannes - My home is my castle - WIP
Post by: Kadri on March 09, 2016, 08:54:59 PM

Nice scene Hannes.
Title: Re: Hannes - My home is my castle - WIP
Post by: inkydigit on March 09, 2016, 11:53:00 PM
Can't beat magic beer Hannes!
Great stuff btw!
:)
Title: Re: Hannes - My home is my castle - WIP
Post by: Dune on March 10, 2016, 07:21:41 AM
Mysterious and interesting scene, Hannes. Funny too. Good luck.
Title: Re: Hannes - My home is my castle - WIP
Post by: archonforest on March 10, 2016, 08:34:20 AM
Very cool one!
Title: Re: Hannes - My home is my castle - WIP
Post by: AP on March 10, 2016, 08:56:57 AM
I like what i see. A dark yet warm atmosphere and theme.
Title: Re: Hannes - My home is my castle - WIP
Post by: Hannes on March 10, 2016, 11:22:23 AM
Thanks guys!
Did a low quality pano test and used the FSP viewer Chris suggested. Works like a charm. In the meantime I added some more objects.
Title: Re: Hannes - My home is my castle - WIP
Post by: yossam on March 10, 2016, 05:41:25 PM
Like what you have done with the place.................always seemed too empty before.  ;)
Title: Re: Hannes - My home is my castle - WIP
Post by: inkydigit on March 10, 2016, 06:38:57 PM
 8)
nicely decorated indeed!... great lighting too btw! :)
Title: Re: Hannes - My home is my castle - WIP
Post by: Hannes on March 10, 2016, 07:44:39 PM
Thanks again. Just finished a test in 4K resolution with Detail 0.8 and AA 9. Stilll not enough. Looks nice, but for a real crisp image it's gotta be at least 8K I guess.
I know, we don't need to do this for this challenge, but I really want to know, how it looks.

Btw, is there any place yet for the entries?
Title: Re: Hannes - My home is my castle - WIP
Post by: Oshyan on March 10, 2016, 07:54:25 PM
Entry form is coming today!

- Oshyan
Title: Re: Hannes - My home is my castle - WIP
Post by: Hannes on March 10, 2016, 07:59:18 PM
So, let the games begin!!!  :) :) :)
Title: Re: Hannes - My home is my castle - WIP
Post by: yossam on March 10, 2016, 08:41:22 PM
I did a test render at 8k...............it could actually use more to get real quality.  ;)
Title: Re: Hannes - My home is my castle - WIP
Post by: Hannes on March 10, 2016, 08:59:51 PM
Maybe.
I'm rendering an 8K render at the moment. 4K looked not too bad, but way too low. I'll see...
Title: Re: Hannes - My home is my castle - WIP
Post by: bobbystahr on March 11, 2016, 02:17:53 PM
OK, is this the right place for WIPs?
About two weeks ago I was just about to post an image, when I accidentally read about the VR challenge. I had created an interior scene with the well known Sponza Atrium model and a beautiful leather sofa from "Cadnav.com" and some more models from there.
So then I decided to give it a go. I don't know yet if this scene will work in a VR environment, but there's nothing to lose. In the meantime I added loads of models, so that there is some stuff everywhere the camera points to.
I had to rework the texturing of almost every model. Sometimes completely, so it was a lot of work so far, but I love it. I'd love to live in a place like this!

Here are three views of this scene. Still some work to do, and then I'll have to find some nice places to put the camera(s).

Scratch one environment I was going to try...maybe have to do one of my other room set-ups. Nice start by the way...I've looked at all in this thread.
Title: Re: Hannes - My home is my castle - WIP
Post by: Hannes on March 12, 2016, 09:38:11 AM
Thanks Bobby.
After 36 hours my 8K render is finished. It seems that the ambient occlusion (one of my favourite features!) has to be increased a little bit, when you are rendering with a very high resolution.
You do a test render at a lower resolution, adjust the AO until it's OK, but it is too "fine" at high res.

All in all I think 8K looks quite good when you load it into a pano viewer, but I guess for a really perfect experience it should be at least 16K.
Title: Re: Hannes - My home is my castle - WIP
Post by: Dune on March 12, 2016, 09:42:38 AM
Interesting that you mention the AO. I had the same, if I get your point right; doing a low res test, shadows were nice and had some refracted light, but at high res with soft shadows, they turned almost black.
Title: Re: Hannes - My home is my castle - WIP
Post by: Hannes on March 12, 2016, 10:03:36 AM
No, actually I meant it's the other way round.

But after a direct comparison it seems like I was wrong... :-\
See image below: the first crop is of a 3K render (a normal view, no spherical camera), and the second crop is of the 8K spherical render of the same area of the scene.
It seems that the resolution of the area is just not high enough. To create a pano in the same resolution like in the first crop, it has to be at least 16K, if not 24 K.
Title: Re: Hannes - My home is my castle - WIP
Post by: masonspappy on March 12, 2016, 12:16:58 PM
Hannes you are masterfull with the detailing!
Title: Re: Hannes - My home is my castle - WIP
Post by: Kadri on March 12, 2016, 03:43:59 PM
No, actually I meant it's the other way round.

But after a direct comparison it seems like I was wrong... :-\
See image below: the first crop is of a 3K render (a normal view, no spherical camera), and the second crop is of the 8K spherical render of the same area of the scene.
It seems that the resolution of the area is just not high enough. To create a pano in the same resolution like in the first crop, it has to be at least 16K, if not 24 K.

Hannes i haven't tried any VR or those programs, but just in case, can it be kind of a resampling of those programs?
Title: Re: Hannes - My home is my castle - WIP
Post by: Hannes on March 12, 2016, 04:22:01 PM
No, it's on the original output. But it's very subtle.
Title: Re: Hannes - My home is my castle - WIP
Post by: j meyer on March 12, 2016, 04:34:32 PM
As far as I can remember you need a higher 'radius' for larger images to get a
similar effect. What did you have to adjust?
Title: Re: Hannes - My home is my castle - WIP
Post by: Oshyan on March 12, 2016, 08:25:04 PM
Yes, the radius for GISD is in pixels, so it's render resolution dependent.

- Oshyan
Title: Re: Hannes - My home is my castle - WIP
Post by: Hannes on March 12, 2016, 08:58:35 PM
Good to know, I never cared about this value!
Thanks guys!!
Title: Re: Hannes - My home is my castle - WIP
Post by: Dune on March 13, 2016, 07:14:33 AM
Yes, of course in pixels! Never thought about that. Wouldn't it be better to have a percentage as default?

And for an equirectangular render with more or less similar sharpness, you need to make it around 4 times larger in width and height, if you consider it's going 'around you'.
Title: Re: Hannes - My home is my castle - WIP
Post by: Matt on March 13, 2016, 07:25:32 AM
Yes, of course in pixels! Never thought about that. Wouldn't it be better to have a percentage as default?

Maybe. But 1) the radius affects the time to calculate, 2) larger images should have more samples in the GI cache, so even though the GISD radius is smaller in world space the distance between GI cache samples is smaller too. GISD is only intended to make up for details not captured by the GI cache.

Quote
And for an equirectangular render with more or less similar sharpness, you need to make it around 4 times larger in width and height, if you consider it's going 'around you'.

I don't see why.

Matt
Title: Re: Hannes - My home is my castle - WIP
Post by: Dune on March 13, 2016, 07:43:56 AM
Yes, I knew about 1) (better is always more 'expensive'  :P But 2) I have to think about. Does that also mean that it's better to increase those samples for say an 8k image?

3): I guess we have a small misunderstanding; if you look at your monitor you see one (~1/4) part of the globe the equirectangular image is projected on, the rest is on the right, left and behind you (and above and below). The part in front has a certain sharpness, but so need the other parts. That differs from a straight render that fills the monitor. That's what I meant. So an equirectangular render of 8k wide would, IMO,  look kind of similar as a 2k normal render, roughly said.
Title: Re: Hannes - My home is my castle - WIP
Post by: Hannes on March 13, 2016, 09:46:03 AM
I tried 72 samples instead of the default 24 in the GISD tab.
Of course it took a bit longer to render, but there is some effect. Here is another example.
On the left side it's 24 samples, on the right side 72. Both are crops of a 4K pano. Subtle but visible to my eyes.
Title: Re: Hannes - My home is my castle - WIP
Post by: Dune on March 13, 2016, 11:25:01 AM
You're right. But is it worth it?
Title: Re: Hannes - My home is my castle - WIP
Post by: Hannes on March 13, 2016, 11:44:46 AM
I'd say yes.
If rendertimes were twice as high, I'd say no of course, but as far as I can tell so far it's not that dramatic.
Title: Re: Hannes - My home is my castle - WIP
Post by: Dune on March 13, 2016, 12:49:42 PM
OK, then it is. Good to know.
Title: Re: Hannes - My home is my castle - WIP
Post by: TheBadger on March 13, 2016, 09:31:49 PM
Man hannes, thats a lot of details. Very cool.
Title: Re: Hannes - My home is my castle - WIP
Post by: Matt on March 14, 2016, 06:18:47 AM
Yes, I knew about 1) (better is always more 'expensive'  :P But 2) I have to think about. Does that also mean that it's better to increase those samples for say an 8k image?

No, because when you render the 8k image you already get more samples of GI than the 2k image. If your 8k spherical has similar sharpness to your 2k perspective, then you've already done what you need to by increasing the render output to 8k.

Quote
3): I guess we have a small misunderstanding; if you look at your monitor you see one (~1/4) part of the globe the equirectangular image is projected on, the rest is on the right, left and behind you (and above and below). The part in front has a certain sharpness, but so need the other parts. That differs from a straight render that fills the monitor. That's what I meant. So an equirectangular render of 8k wide would, IMO,  look kind of similar as a 2k normal render, roughly said.

Yes, I'd agree with that, assuming the 2k render had an FOV of about 90 degrees. So if both images have similar amount of pixels per degree of FOV, you want to keep the GISD and GI settings the same as well.

Matt
Title: Re: Hannes - My home is my castle - WIP
Post by: Dune on March 14, 2016, 07:09:28 AM
We're on par. Thanks, Matt.
Title: Re: Hannes - My home is my castle - WIP
Post by: Hannes on March 16, 2016, 10:20:46 PM
I added a little bit more stuff (think I have to stop now...) and rendered a second view in 4K. This time it took 24 and a half hours.
There's a lot of reflective shaders, but I did tests with the simple specular function of the shaders, and I didn't like it.

Here's how it looks in 1280px. No postwork.
Title: Re: Hannes - My home is my castle - WIP
Post by: bobbystahr on March 17, 2016, 12:45:30 AM
I added a little bit more stuff (think I have to stop now...) and rendered a second view in 4K. This time it took 24 and a half hours.
There's a lot of reflective shaders, but I did tests with the simple specular function of the shaders, and I didn't like it.

Here's how it looks in 1280px. No postwork.

Very nice, had you not started this and with a funnier title than I'd thought up, I might have taken a run at this as well.
Title: Re: Hannes - My home is my castle - WIP
Post by: yossam on March 17, 2016, 02:01:52 AM
Almost looks like a shield or force field around the center, not noticeable in the viewer.  :)
Title: Re: Hannes - My home is my castle - WIP
Post by: Henry Blewer on March 17, 2016, 02:12:24 AM
This reminds me of a Witcher interior. I would try having some areas with much more illumination.
The image texturing is wonderful. I like it very much.
Title: Re: Hannes - My home is my castle - WIP
Post by: Mohawk20 on March 17, 2016, 08:42:39 AM
I love the lighting with the rays and shadows from the roof!
Title: Re: Hannes - My home is my castle - WIP
Post by: zaxxon on March 18, 2016, 03:50:28 PM
What a lush and beautiful environment! Hannes you always bring out the best in the TG renderer, be nice to see this in a high-end VR headset.
Title: Re: Hannes - My home is my castle - WIP
Post by: Hannes on March 18, 2016, 10:15:34 PM
Thanks a lot, guys! Zaxxon, I'd love to.
Title: Re: Hannes - My home is my castle - WIP
Post by: Hannes on March 18, 2016, 10:39:43 PM
Just submitted my entry, before I start thinking about adding even more objects (actually there are 84 objects in the scene).
One scene, two views.
Title: Re: Hannes - My home is my castle - WIP
Post by: bobbystahr on March 18, 2016, 11:14:09 PM
Just submitted my entry, before I start thinking about adding even more objects (actually there are 84 objects in the scene).
One scene, two views.

congrats, I've yet to decide which scene to sacrifice my computer to the render of. Thinking of trying 4K which will be an adventure for sure.
Title: Re: Hannes - My home is my castle - WIP
Post by: Kadri on March 18, 2016, 11:33:25 PM

The final looks nice Hannes.
Tried with FSPviewer to get the feeling.
Title: Re: Hannes - My home is my castle - WIP
Post by: Matt on March 19, 2016, 12:12:34 AM
Just submitted my entry, before I start thinking about adding even more objects (actually there are 84 objects in the scene).
One scene, two views.

congrats, I've yet to decide which scene to sacrifice my computer to the render of. Thinking of trying 4K which will be an adventure for sure.

You only need to submit 2k renders for the challenge. Maybe you can render both scenes?

Matt
Title: Re: Hannes - My home is my castle - WIP
Post by: Hannes on March 20, 2016, 04:48:55 PM
As I wrote here:
http://www.planetside.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,21314.msg213808.html#msg213808
I bought a quite cheap Oculus Rift alternative. I used the Google Photo Sphere app to see my own images in VR. Although my cellphone's display is quite low res, it's quite an experience to see how the pano looks like when you're "really" in there.
Title: Re: Hannes - My home is my castle - WIP
Post by: bobbystahr on March 20, 2016, 10:01:05 PM

You only need to submit 2k renders for the challenge. Maybe you can render both scenes?

Matt


Well that settles my mind some what...I mad do a couple of views as well...will do a 4K one to show friends on the viewer though.
Title: Re: Hannes - My home is my castle - WIP
Post by: inkydigit on March 24, 2016, 05:15:50 PM
i could live here Hannes...
super detail!
:)
J
Title: Re: Hannes - My home is my castle - WIP
Post by: Hannes on March 24, 2016, 06:12:10 PM
i could live here Hannes...

Me too!! :) :) :)
Title: Re: Hannes - My home is my castle - WIP
Post by: Jo Kariboo on March 29, 2016, 02:50:27 AM
I look forward to see more of this work. Beautiful light effect in the room!
Title: Re: Hannes - My home is my castle - WIP
Post by: HecubaAssassin on March 29, 2016, 06:47:33 AM
Very nice lighting, I always admire those who can do interiors in Terragen.  When I load things the textures generally load strange, lose their settings and come out incredibly dark.  What is the trick to this?  I use other software (DAZ3d, Hexagon, Blender) for interiors and everything loads smoothly... but never terragen.

To go through all the setting for each object again?  Or is there a better way to load .OBJs that I am not aware of.  Usually I just allow x-frog settings... lighten things up.
Title: Re: Hannes - My home is my castle - WIP
Post by: Hannes on March 29, 2016, 06:57:41 AM
Thank you!
Actually the secret is to rework each and every shader. Honestly, there is not a single object in the scene I could just import and use without changing anything.
First of all a lot of time the default colour is set to grey when you import a model. That's probably why most of the shader appear too dark before editing.

I use to import new models into the default scene and adjust each shader until it looks OK to me. Then I save it again for later use.
For an interior scene I try to imitate what would happen in the real world. If there's a room with windows without artificial lightsources, I increase the environment light's "strength on surfaces" value until it looks good. I never use additional lightsources to make a scene brighter unless there are real additional lightsources like lamps or fires.
Title: Re: Hannes - My home is my castle - WIP
Post by: bobbystahr on March 29, 2016, 07:17:54 AM
Very nice lighting, I always admire those who can do interiors in Terragen.  When I load things the textures generally load strange, lose their settings and come out incredibly dark.  What is the trick to this?  I use other software (DAZ3d, Hexagon, Blender) for interiors and everything loads smoothly... but never terragen.

To go through all the setting for each object again?  Or is there a better way to load .OBJs that I am not aware of.  Usually I just allow x-frog settings... lighten things up.

Do you run your models through PoseRay a free app a lot of us use. It sorts out .obj's and many other file types to an  .obj that Terragen gets along with nicely.
https://sites.google.com/site/poseray/
Title: Re: Hannes - My home is my castle - WIP
Post by: WASasquatch on March 09, 2018, 12:52:28 AM
Sorry to bump, but I just have too. This is one of the best interior environments I've seen in Terragen, it incorporates so many elements, and some new feats users have accomplished as well. Love it!
Title: Re: Hannes - My home is my castle - WIP
Post by: Hannes on March 09, 2018, 02:55:22 AM
Thank you!!!!  :) :) :)