So I tried it. :)
xoio people
barrel tgo
Wheat tgo
Grass masonspappy
Mud Hut (as table) Hetzen
Displaced wood fence (me)
Barn (me)
Mr.Lampost's bushpak bush 3a
Tree 100 Blender (me) leaf PF with force displace
woodpile and tree stump from Sketchfab free vegetation scanned models
cube buried in firepit as a log
fake stone fire coals and barrier
added a lighter version as this shows up darker on my MAC devices
[attach=2]
Nice Start. The scenery and ambience is already very nice. The flames need a bit work. They look a bit too much like cards.
Perhaps you can also try to add one or two bigger logs into the fire? If you try Hannes burnig wood nodes it could look interesting.
Nils is right. I wouldn't stay long around such a campfire :P
Quote from: Dune on July 15, 2018, 02:07:38 AM
Nils is right. I wouldn't stay long around such a campfire :P
I agree about the card objecct here. I tried to scale it up and got interference with the black masking problem, so I went with exact file specs. IMHO the Hannes method would do better as long as I am using a card. This setup has a use, just not in this scene. Thanks for sharing it!
Went with Hanne's masked image card object method.
Now I have an issue with the spotlight.
Atmophere samples 64, density 10.
Spotlight strength 2000
falloff 2
Soft shadows 9
spec highlights on
glow in atmo on
Render MPD 8 AA 8
EditOh ho! I was using car head lamp settings....for my lamp
made a simple lamp for the barn :)
Getting better and better. But what the orange stuff around the campfire on the ground? I would have made that sooty, with a soft simple shape and surface shader.
Quote from: Dune on July 17, 2018, 01:39:43 AM
Getting better and better. But what the orange stuff around the campfire on the ground? I would have made that sooty, with a soft simple shape and surface shader.
Absolutely dito! ;)
Just less orange and perhaps some bigger pieces of coal or stones or something like that.
It is worthwhile to further tinker - nice progress :)
Looks very good. Some suggestions: the fire could be a bit larger and there should be another orange lightsource right in the center of the fire card that mimics the fire's brightness. The wood doesn't seem to be lit by the fire. Maybe a subtle small localised cloud without density shader might add some glow as well.
And the lamp is dark inside. Another lightsource inside the lamp shade might look good.
Thanks everyone. I agree on all points.
The logs are the woodpile Sketchfab scan that comes on a curved base, so I am fighting trying to cover that curve as it takes the image texture. I am combining it with Hannes's burning wood tgc now and it is looking better already. The coals definitely need some variation, similar to WASasquatch's ember pile, so I will play around with that too.
barn lamp is one of those metal goose neck, bell type, a little hard to get the brightness right at the edge, but I will keep at it. Rotation to tip the bell isn't working as i want.
Just when you think you got it......
MARBLING!
Scaled Hannes's flame card setup to 1.5 from 1.......even went in and scaled the image also, after the first render got the weird stuff......
Fine marbling everywhere except the card. Can the card not be scaled ? That was part of the problem I had with Dune's setup, it performed fine as long as original specs. Increasing scale or population of cards brought out the black mismatching.
I tried the usual, disable until it disappears, only original scale will work correctly. I was reading the old train smoke post ....Is this the glass shader and GISD issue? I did make the setup a tgo, if that means anything, but at original scale, it did not seem to. Dune's setup is still in the file, but disabled....any chance that would interfere?
Quote from: luvsmuzik on July 17, 2018, 05:27:09 PM
Just when you think you got it......
MARBLING!
Scaled Hannes's flame card setup to 1.5 from 1.......even went in and scaled the image also, after the first render got the weird stuff......
Fine marbling everywhere except the card. Can the card not be scaled ? That was part of the problem I had with Dune's setup, it performed fine as long as original specs. Increasing scale or population of cards brought out the black mismatching.
I tried the usual, disable until it disappears, only original scale will work correctly. I was reading the old train smoke post ....Is this the glass shader and GISD issue? I did make the setup a tgo, if that means anything, but at original scale, it did not seem to. Dune's setup is still in the file, but disabled....any chance that would interfere?
Isn't his card a custom object (Hannes)? Could be related to base UV. If there even is any. I haven't noticed any graining in my renders, even scaling the card object. Both image and procedural. It'd be interesting to look at your atmosphere and other settings
I did a right click on Hannes's Flame setup and made it a tgo to transfer to another tgd. That did fine for probably 8 renders, then after C&C I changed the scale first only on the card and got the junk. Applied scale to image next, same junk. So.....at this point I have increased ray detail multiplier to 1, ray detail region highest 360, anythng else I can think of ......changes at scale of 1....fine and dandy. Changes at increase scale...marbling.
Atmo now at 1 and quality 64. No clouds. Sun elev 2, strength 0.5
I now have a Sun, 2 light sources and 1 spot. I wonder if limiting distance has a play.....
Marbling is not just on the people, it is on fence, bench as well, looking like a fine displacement where there is none. It is like the mask or alpha is projecting outside the card maybe?
Very interesting. Something to do with the glass shader and multiple light sources maybe? Maybe try cutting things down to just the sun and one light source? I have noticed grained with using the spotlight before if I remember correctly too.
This is weird! My card is an OBJ with UV mapping. It can be scaled as you like. No need to change the image. I just did it.
I had some difference in the area where the card is compared to the rest, and that could be eliminated by checking "defer atmo". But this happened maybe because I had a localised cloud as well in the scene.
It's really annoying that we can't just use a regular shader with a proper transparency. This glass (or water) shader thing is a cool trick, but it makes lots of problems.
I have about reached the end of my virtual analytical rope here.....I am going to change the light source that sits around the fire pit next and switch it to a daytime lighting version.
This may need volumetric lighting due to the reflection? That topic is left for others much smarter than me.
Thanks WASasquatch, Hannes, and Dune for your input on this. The original procedural campfire may take longer, but it seems fewer problems so far. I love the card idea and I am sure there is an answer.
Scaled down the other objects to compensate, Fire setup still at scale of 1.
Crop render
It is indeed the light source in the fire pit causing the problem! Fire scale 2
well worked out...
Cool! Glad you sorted it out.
Yippee! Scaled down the light source, reflection on barrel ring is back!
Thanks bobbystahr......light master that you are. ;D
Good job, luvs!
Thanks Dune!
I am so stubborn.....Okay here now, WASasquatch card trial, then Dune fix,
In the card shader....In the Surface layers Flame Density/ Color Max height, switched to 100 altitude max. So the black stuff is gone, but obvious card edge frame...Can you mask the card shape edge?
I may try this on some rock pop
Quote from: luvsmuzik on July 18, 2018, 11:20:58 AM
Thanks Dune!
I am so stubborn.....Okay here now, WASasquatch card trial, then Dune fix,
In the card shader....In the Surface layers Flame Density/ Color Max height, switched to 100 altitude max. So the black stuff is gone, but obvious card edge frame...Can you mask the card shape edge?
I may try this on some rock pop
What I was doing, is masking the Max Height surface layers with a separate SSS and warping to create a "flame patch" which was working decently, but could be better if it could be flipped from X-Z to X or Z and Y. Cause you could than actually have a stretched SSS circle shape which creates a fire shape. Just not sure how to achieve it.
Now here is WASasquatch/Dune card setup. Scale changed, did fine.
I made some sparks flying about as if a new log was just added or the wind maybe stirring things up.
I took the Flame Card Flame Density Fractal and in Colour tab, Colour Offset is -0.775
Same fractal reduced scale to 0.025 and 0.025 in minimum also.
This takes you from a nearly solid vornoi noise preview to a sparse one.
I hear you about your goal WASasquatch, somewhere I have seen a tapered SSS sort of like a trapezoid, maybe for a rocket plume or waterfall, memory eludes me just now. I will look through cloud stuff.
I want to see if bloom or burst would do something "cute" on this now. Maybe a little smoke.....we'll see. :)
a little starburst
I noticed it could be used as embers too. Actually doesn't look half bad. If the luminosity is upped it'll "bloom" more and soften the edges probably.
great stuff! :)
And Dad said, "Okay If you have to build a bonfire, do it out by that tree stump by the well house. I don't know why you want to stay out all night taking pictures of the sky. It happens every year, last year, the year before that, the year before that.....and I'm sure it's gonna happen next year."
Notilucent sky by nethskie from the cloud library shares.
http://www.planetside.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,3691.msg112298.html#msg112298
Bloom 0.1 and Gamma 2.4 plus exposure correct out of TG.
The flames look very good to me.
With such a bonfire the faces of the people around the fireplace should be glowing red by now ;)
Are the sparks and little pieces on a plane? They look a little bit regular distributed and rectangular in the air.
Maybe some sort of irregular mask shape on the plane? If they are on a plane, that is.
CHeers, Klaus
The PF SSS on the Sparks could be shrunk a bit to constrain to the shape of the fire but looks really nice. That is a interesting sky, looks cool.
Quote from: WASasquatch on July 19, 2018, 02:53:32 PM
The PF SSS on the Sparks could be shrunk a bit to constrain to the shape of the fire but looks really nice. That is a interesting sky, looks cool.
Yes it was the first falling into my eyes! Great sky!
Hope I may make another suggestion? - the work is so good now, that it's worth to get even more perfect ;)
The bigger gras patches look quite regular. A bit like on a chess board. If you change the spacing variation and the scale width of the population a bit (and/or make it smaller but denser), it could look more natural.
Thank you all for your help with this. :)
Resized SSS on sparks card and did a scale to get 1 tall card mixed in with the rest. Dune/WASasquatch
Repopulated masonspappy's grass. I had decreased that to see if its reflections were causing the marbling stuff.
I tried a small cloud effect glow at the base of the flames, but....that gave me an outline of Hannes's fire card setup, faint but annoying. >:(
btw, successfully UV mapped my little bench, yay me!
Some other noctilucent cloud doodles
https://planetside.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,24154.msg244350.html#msg244350
http://www.planetside.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,3691.msg112298.html#msg112298
Nice. Looks much better.
Looks great!!
Quote from: luvsmuzik on July 20, 2018, 09:06:26 AM
...that gave me an outline of Hannes's fire card setup, faint but annoying. >:(
Strange. Is defer atmo enabled?
To my eyes the sparks could be a bit mode randomly distributed. It seems a bit like vertical rows of sparks.
Thanks Kadri!
Quote from: Hannes on July 20, 2018, 09:55:03 AM
Looks great!!
Quote from: luvsmuzik on July 20, 2018, 09:06:26 AM
...that gave me an outline of Hannes's fire card setup, faint but annoying. >:(
Strange. Is defer atmo enabled?
To my eyes the sparks could be a bit mode randomly distributed. It seems a bit like vertical rows of sparks.
Thanks Hannes!
Yes defer atmo is on with cloud glow effect. I think I trashed the render. I had just been trying some burst and bloom stuff, then tried the cloud.
Edit found render cloud glow, however....maybe shadow setting?
The sparks can be an easy fix, I will just increase the mask to lower amount showing. I think that pop has 6 cards as to show from any camera angle. I could figure lots of ways to do those too, just wanted to salvage something of the nice colors in the initial setup besides the transparency issues.
Little cloud puffs experiment...
Cool!
Maybe you need to lower the camera a bit. Now it seems like the flames are stopped by the shed's awning.
I'd say, you need to move the cloud layer a little upwards. The glow occludes the wood pile.
I wonder if you could just take the fire image and blur it a bunch with gaussian, and than make gray scale, adjust exposure, and use as a cloud projection.
Quote from: Dune on July 20, 2018, 01:23:44 PM
Maybe you need to lower the camera a bit. Now it seems like the flames are stopped by the shed's awning.
Quote from: Hannes on July 20, 2018, 01:47:21 PM
I'd say, you need to move the cloud layer a little upwards. The glow occludes the wood pile.
Did both of those, scaled up the fire, made the glow rather smoky with a little cloud.
First image here no filters, second image is adjusted. I don't know if it is my mac stuff or me, so I made a brighter one. :)
Wow, you're getting there. Looks fantastic.
Quote from: Hannes on July 21, 2018, 08:46:20 AM
Wow, you're getting there. Looks fantastic.
Agree...must mess about with this file if..... it's ever not a nice day outside....off on my bike today.
Echo Hannes. But I still think you need to do something about the bright circle of stuff on the ground. Just making it a black sooty soft SSS would already be better, IMO. Add some tiny scale pf masking an illuminated surface shader for sparks on ground perhaps.
Quote from: Dune on July 22, 2018, 02:59:54 AM
Echo Hannes. But I still think you need to do something about the bright circle of stuff on the ground. Just making it a black sooty soft SSS would already be better, IMO. Add some tiny scale pf masking an illuminated surface shader for sparks on ground perhaps.
Ha ha! okay you don't like my burnt pizza? ;D
no more pizza
Quote from: luvsmuzik on July 22, 2018, 06:49:19 AM
Quote from: Dune on July 22, 2018, 02:59:54 AM
Echo Hannes. But I still think you need to do something about the bright circle of stuff on the ground. Just making it a black sooty soft SSS would already be better, IMO. Add some tiny scale pf masking an illuminated surface shader for sparks on ground perhaps.
Ha ha! okay you don't like my burnt pizza? ;D
Hahahaha
This is getting to be a great scene. Still love that sky in contrast to the campfire mood.
That's way better. I have done a campfire using elongated black stones (pop) as firewood (with illuminated glowing parts and ashy parts, through transform shader, world position)). If you sit those on a small displaced fractal (separate line) and use a compute normal with very small patch, the 'stones' will stick to all sides, like branches.
Thanks WASasquatch and Dune! This has been interesting to say the least. You two understand the complexities of the nodes and where and when to use colour adjust or another mask, a warp here, a merge there. I can only dissect your files and try to learn to see what each does. I think we started out trying to warp the fractal on the card object, to bend it like a natural flame. From that, Hannes chipped in his flame card object and advice on transparency. This render is a combination, using both card objects. I ended up masking most of Dune's card object for the sparks,but I like the result.
Here I went color crazy and added more to the noctilucent sky. :) Gamma correct out of program
I have stored some ideas and suggestions for later use!
Quote from: luvsmuzik on July 23, 2018, 08:17:10 AM
Thanks WASasquatch and Dune! This has been interesting to say the least. You two understand the complexities of the nodes and where and when to use colour adjust or another mask, a warp here, a merge there. I can only dissect your files and try to learn to see what each does. I think we started out trying to warp the fractal on the card object, to bend it like a natural flame. From that, Hannes chipped in his flame card object and advice on transparency. This render is a combination, using both card objects. I ended up masking most of Dune's card object for the sparks,but I like the result.
Here I went color crazy and added more to the noctilucent sky. :) Gamma correct out of program
I have stored some ideas and suggestions for later use!
Not sure about the atmosphere in this one. Is it just me or is there some greens in the light around the fire? Also, I think the fire is starting to drift away :P
By and by, I figured out how to "Shape" my procedural flames, will be releasing a new version soon. Gotta rotate a SSS to get X/Z and Y shapes. Additionally using Hannes semi-transparency method instead of a Default Shader. It produces appropriate flames and transparency.
Quote from: WASasquatch on July 23, 2018, 02:20:25 PM
Not sure about the atmosphere in this one. Is it just me or is there some greens in the light around the fire? Also, I think the fire is starting to drift away :P
By and by, I figured out how to "Shape" my procedural flames, will be releasing a new version soon. Gotta rotate a SSS to get X/Z and Y shapes. Additionally using Hannes semi-transparency method instead of a Default Shader. It produces appropriate flames and transparency.
I think initially in your first procedual campfire, some thought the render time too long. https://planetside.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,24664.msg250757.html#msg250757
It just depends on what you really want to do. several of us could make 100 flame textures a day to use as an image on a card object, what with brushes and creativity.
I am just glad for the development and sharing myself. It is fun to watch you wizards do this stuff.
Probably overdid the gamma correct, no green in glow or smoke.
Quote from: luvsmuzik on July 23, 2018, 02:40:12 PM
Quote from: WASasquatch on July 23, 2018, 02:20:25 PM
Not sure about the atmosphere in this one. Is it just me or is there some greens in the light around the fire? Also, I think the fire is starting to drift away :P
By and by, I figured out how to "Shape" my procedural flames, will be releasing a new version soon. Gotta rotate a SSS to get X/Z and Y shapes. Additionally using Hannes semi-transparency method instead of a Default Shader. It produces appropriate flames and transparency.
I think initially in your first procedual campfire, some thought the render time too long. https://planetside.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,24664.msg250757.html#msg250757
It just depends on what you really want to do. several of us could make 100 flame textures a day to use as an image on a card object, what with brushes and creativity.
I am just glad for the development and sharing myself. It is fun to watch you wizards do this stuff.
Probably overdid the gamma correct, no green in glow or smoke.
I would like to see these realistic flames achieved, 100's a day. Even professional artists use stocks, even in movies if not 3D, just like what you're using. And that stock is rather low resolution, and the JPEG artifacts show up in the final render. 8).
Additionally, render time for a whole is not that much of a impact. At MPD 4 and AA 4 that's just 5 minutes with two cards... In a full scene, like yours, that time is incredible negligible compared to the whole. Especially when you're asleep or away. I mean, that sort of logic is kinda rude, both to TG and me, since you might as well not use other stuff like glass for simple panes when you can just add a white gradient and some transparency in post with a slight blue hue or duplicate and manipulate in some reflection. As a single window will add a tiny bit to that render time... Cause in reality it's just like anything else.
...the procedural fire pit was 7 hours....no cards involved....
Depends on how volatile you are I guess.. :P
Quote from: luvsmuzik on July 23, 2018, 03:08:26 PM
...the procedural fire pit was 7 hours....no cards involved....
Depends on how volatile you are I guess.. :P
That's what I mean... No cards involved, it took 7 hours? So 7:05:05 is a breaker? lol That's what I mean by that logic.
When I have a scene filled with clouds, terrain, rocks, grass, etc, that last thing I care about in render time is 5 minutes for a couple cards xD
We have been trying to smooth feathers not ruffle them......Your newest card warping is very good! :)
Quote from: luvsmuzik on July 23, 2018, 03:20:32 PM
We have been trying to smooth feathers not ruffle them......Your newest card warping is very good! :)
Imo using a image is not smoothing feathers. It's plucking the chicken and painting feathers on. :P Like I was saying, might as well not even using a image shader and just do it in post, you can in fact get much better effects, erasing jpeg artifacts, liquid warp filter to adjust flames however you want, or warp them around the logs in the render to give them volume, etc.
I'm endeavoring for photorealistic flames with TG itself. Which is more than certainly possible. Really down to detail of PFs, warps, colors and lighting and most importantly, seeds Lol
I know, I have been doodling SSS triangle and clouds again myself. I am positive you will find a suitable solution. :)
Quote from: luvsmuzik on July 23, 2018, 03:33:04 PM
I know, I have been doodling SSS triangle and clouds again myself. I am positive you will find a suitable solution. :)
Lots of testing seeds and scales.
Also I think I realize why that last render looks green, a lot less bloom and orange colour from the fire itself is present like in previous iterations.
Love the evolution of this image, I prefer the darker ones, I feel they are more realistic, also the mood here is strangely dark... like twin peaks or silent hill... or something darker... I like this a lot.
:)