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General => Terragen Discussion => Topic started by: dandelO on June 14, 2010, 05:27:28 PM

Title: TG2 GI Examples Page
Post by: dandelO on June 14, 2010, 05:27:28 PM
I've stuck together a little page of various different GI settings examples.
Most of you probably know all this stuff already but, I figure this might be a handy reference point for people new to TG2 or, to 3D scene building in general.
You might just like to see directly the differences between GI settings.
I could sit for hours(and I do, it's you guys who make the pretty pictures in here! :)) just playing with settings and testing them against each other to find out their purpose and uses, might as well document this one, since I think it could be a handy reference to some folks.

To the untrained eye, GI effects aren't all that easy to differentiate between, especially in a regular, built up landscape scene, which we mostly see coming from TG2.
Here, Terragen's GI settings are used in a general purpose illumination room made inside the program. The differences between various levels and options are very clear to see in such a setting.
Hopefully, this will go some way to help illustrate the outputs and to help anyone who isn't sure to get a handle on TG's GI system and, when to use what settings.

So, should you like to visit, here is the page link:

http://sites.google.com/site/d4nd310/tg2gi

Cheers! :)
Title: Re: TG2 GI Examples Page
Post by: neuspadrin on June 14, 2010, 06:41:53 PM
Great work there dandelO, looks great.
Title: Re: TG2 GI Examples Page
Post by: airflamesred on June 14, 2010, 06:44:02 PM
Dandelo
Many thanks for that. Its very interesting
Title: Re: TG2 GI Examples Page
Post by: Henry Blewer on June 14, 2010, 08:00:09 PM
Thanks for making this. 8) I downloaded the video for reference. This makes the settings more clear than anything I have read.
Title: Re: TG2 GI Examples Page
Post by: dandelO on June 14, 2010, 08:30:54 PM
A higher quality video, hosted at Vimeo, is now up in its place, Henry. YouTube ruins everything I upload, that was just a place marker until the Vimeo upload was ready(there's a half-hour queue for unpaid membership uploads).

New video link: http://vimeo.com/12570183

Cheers, folks! :)
Title: Re: TG2 GI Examples Page
Post by: MGebhart on June 14, 2010, 08:36:21 PM
Awesome, thanks Martin.
Title: Re: TG2 GI Examples Page
Post by: choronr on June 15, 2010, 12:31:56 AM
Every once in a great while, a hero comes along to lead the pack - whatever the endeavor - you are one of these guys for TG2!
Title: Re: TG2 GI Examples Page
Post by: Klas on June 15, 2010, 01:58:52 AM
Thank you!
Title: Re: TG2 GI Examples Page
Post by: Dune on June 15, 2010, 02:17:49 AM
Hey Martin, this is a really good page! I'm sure it'll be helpful for a lot of our fellow terraworkers. Why not add a few samples with fill lights as 'cheap' alternatives, to show the differences. 
Title: Re: TG2 GI Examples Page
Post by: Henry Blewer on June 15, 2010, 08:41:10 AM
The Vimeo vid is flv format. I am currently having difficulty getting these to play in Media Player and Media Center. The K-Lite codec pack does not seem to work quite right with Windows 7 64 bit.

The YouTube version gets the point across well.
Title: Re: TG2 GI Examples Page
Post by: neuspadrin on June 15, 2010, 09:06:25 AM
Quote from: njeneb on June 15, 2010, 08:41:10 AM
The Vimeo vid is flv format. I am currently having difficulty getting these to play in Media Player and Media Center. The K-Lite codec pack does not seem to work quite right with Windows 7 64 bit.

VLC - the best video player ever.  You can throw pretty much everything and anything at this baby. Also available to windows, mac, and linux :).

http://www.videolan.org/
Title: Re: TG2 GI Examples Page
Post by: Klas on June 15, 2010, 12:22:40 PM
Media Player Classic Home Cinema - in combination with ffdshow tryouts the best video player for windows ever.
http://ffdshow-tryout.sourceforge.net/
http://mpc-hc.sourceforge.net/
Title: Re: TG2 GI Examples Page
Post by: Kadri on June 15, 2010, 12:50:34 PM

http://www.cccp-project.net/

I know the page seems not like a codec pack page  ;D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_Community_Codec_Pack

http://www.cccp-project.net/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page

Before you ask :

"Exactly what is the CCCP Insurgent?

CCCP Insurgent (CCCPI) is a program that is able to detect other playback packs and thus help you (and us) in the troubleshooting process."


http://www.cccp-project.net/wiki/index.php?title=CCCP_Insurgent
Title: Re: TG2 GI Examples Page
Post by: tempaccount on June 16, 2010, 03:26:26 AM
VLC or KMplayer are the future, forget troublesome codec packs. Both work awesome in w7 64bit as well.

And dandelO, thanks for that video, pretty much told me what I expected to see - I'm quite impressed by the object rendering here, what sort of scene do you have in this one?
Title: Re: TG2 GI Examples Page
Post by: FrankB on June 16, 2010, 08:01:03 AM
great comparison, thanks!  :)
Title: Re: TG2 GI Examples Page
Post by: inkydigit on June 16, 2010, 08:23:29 AM
I echo Frank et al....cheers!
Title: Re: TG2 GI Examples Page
Post by: PorcupineFloyd on June 16, 2010, 03:34:57 PM
Great reading, thanks for your work dandelO :-)

I'm sure it will be very helpful for everybody to understand how lightning works in Terragen 2.
Title: Re: TG2 GI Examples Page
Post by: bobbystahr on June 17, 2010, 12:07:50 PM
I echo all the previous comments and emphasize the YOU ARE MY HERO part...learned more in the short time viewing that than in all my experiments...well done man.. ...
Title: Re: TG2 GI Examples Page
Post by: Seth on June 17, 2010, 02:17:37 PM
great job !!!
Title: Re: TG2 GI Examples Page
Post by: dandelO on June 18, 2010, 06:54:36 PM
Cool, thanks for the pleasant responses, everyone! :)

Dune: Good idea, I'll get around to some more examples shortly, I have another couple of images to update at the end with I think. Then, I'll think about alternative lightings. This is still a kind of limited set of examples, focusing on GI on surfaces and not really the atmospheric side of the envirolight, I might try an atmosphere GI comparison thingy at some point.
It serves some purpose for now, anyway.

Cheers again! :)
Title: Re: TG2 GI Examples Page
Post by: bobbystahr on June 18, 2010, 07:12:26 PM
After reviewing the video I had a light bulb moment....what is happening is a 'caustics event' as it's producing, to my eye, a very nice 'Radiosity' [a sorta holy grail render for me] render at the higher levels...am I correct or blowing smoke out my ears again?
Title: Re: TG2 GI Examples Page
Post by: dandelO on June 18, 2010, 07:51:33 PM
Checking the 'GI surface details' is what creates the really accurate shadows and illumination casting from the balls onto the floor. Dark shadows and bright highlights, right around the points-of-contact of each of the casting objects. I've tried with transparency shaders to generate real caustics but, no luck yet, it does appear, very nicely, with luminosity, though.

I have a couple of other renders that I'll placemark in the meantime here, both used 'GI SD' and were(roughly) the same length of render; The settings 'GI - RD=2/SQ=12 + Surface details + extra ambient light' took about 52 minutes for me to render:
[attachimg=#]
And this one, at 'GI - RD=4/SQ=8 + Surface details + extra ambient light':
[attachimg=#]
Took about an hour and 7 minutes.
Both times don't differ that much, for the large difference in render settings, when 'Surface details' is checked. It does add a lot of render time but it's worth it if you need a good, realistically lit close-up, a still life render, car showroom-type-scene, etc.

(The 2/12 render above appears flawed as the shadows seem to disappear closer to the object points of contact in some places, I noticed when it was rendering that the wall, which rendered before the objects, wasn't taking the shadows correctly, the one at 4/8 did fine and, looks very nice, I think.)
Title: Re: TG2 GI Examples Page
Post by: dandelO on June 18, 2010, 08:12:39 PM
Quote from: bobbystahr on June 18, 2010, 07:12:26 PM
render at the higher levels...am I correct

I wouldn't say that, pare it back as far as possible! ;) but, to make the best of the lighting, don't use a GI relative detail of '1', if you require lots of important GI details.

If you mean 'higher levels' of render detail, the way I have it worked out in my head(wrongly, 9 out of 10 times) is that, to get matching lighting quality, between different render details, a relative detail of 2/2, at a render detail of '1', is equivalent(in terms of lighting detail) to GI of 4/4, at render detail 0.5. Is that right? I've never studied the actual 'relativity' to the render detail of GI relative detail. ??? :D
Title: Re: TG2 GI Examples Page
Post by: bobbystahr on June 19, 2010, 02:00:03 AM
Hmmmm...lots to mull over here whilst I find an interior scene to try this out with...what did you use for the extra ambient light btw?
Title: Re: TG2 GI Examples Page
Post by: latego on June 19, 2010, 02:55:17 AM
Quote from: bobbystahr on June 19, 2010, 02:00:03 AM
Hmmmm...lots to mull over here whilst I find an interior scene to try this out with...what did you use for the extra ambient light btw?

...the Cornell Box http://www.graphics.cornell.edu/online/box/ (http://www.graphics.cornell.edu/online/box/)?

Bye!!!
Title: Re: TG2 GI Examples Page
Post by: Oshyan on June 19, 2010, 03:33:23 AM
Very useful reference. Perhaps add it to the wiki? ;D

- Oshyan
Title: Re: TG2 GI Examples Page
Post by: bobbystahr on June 19, 2010, 04:01:41 AM
Quote from: Oshyan on June 19, 2010, 03:33:23 AM
Very useful reference. Perhaps add it to the wiki? ;D

- Oshyan

Indeed.. ...
Title: Re: TG2 GI Examples Page
Post by: dandelO on June 19, 2010, 10:13:15 AM
Quote from: bobbystahr on June 19, 2010, 02:00:03 AM
Hmmmm...lots to mull over here whilst I find an interior scene to try this out with...what did you use for the extra ambient light btw?

Here's a quote from near the bottom of the GI examples page, Bobby:
Quote*** Extra ambience comes, in this case, in the form of a negatively scaled(inside-out), white sphere, encapsulating the entire scene(Just like a scaled down version of the default 'background' node, which you can use for this purpose in a regular landscape shot). A tiny amount of luminosity is used on this capsule-sphere(0.005). This helps to bounce more light around and add some extra lighting to everything, without increasing exposure or raising the 'Envirolight' GI strength settings, similar to the way a photographer would use a white-reflector to do the same job. Luminosity values for the reflector sphere are subjective according to scales etc, I found that at this smaller scale(a capsule sphere of -25m enclosing the 10m room) higher luminosity values than 0.01 were easily blowing-out all the lighting/shadow details, the final setting of 0.005 that I ended up with just gives a nice little boost to the ambience. Quite nice and not too heavy on the renderer.

A wee bit luminosity on this capsule sphere bounces a bit more light around the entire scene, it adds practically nothing to the render time and brightens things up quite nicely.

Oshyan: Indeed, I have already done this when I'd posted it here, it's listed under 'TG2 Tips and Tricks', the last entry so far... http://www.planetside.co.uk/wiki/index.php/Terragen_2_Tips_and_Tricks#Global_Illumination_Examples_page
Title: Re: TG2 GI Examples Page
Post by: bobbystahr on June 19, 2010, 11:34:31 AM
Thanks dandelO...dunno how I missed that.. ...good trick btw.. ....
Title: Re: TG2 GI Examples Page
Post by: bobbystahr on June 19, 2010, 11:35:44 AM
Quote from: latego on June 19, 2010, 02:55:17 AM
Quote from: bobbystahr on June 19, 2010, 02:00:03 AM
Hmmmm...lots to mull over here whilst I find an interior scene to try this out with...what did you use for the extra ambient light btw?

...the Cornell Box http://www.graphics.cornell.edu/online/box/ (http://www.graphics.cornell.edu/online/box/)?

Bye!!!

LOL..thanks but I meant one I have on my drive already.. ...