'Opportunity Flocks' or, 'Random Seed!' Can't decide on a thread title! :D
I've been flinging some mud around on and off for a wee while and thought I'd plough it, sow some seeds and add some little raiders.
Just a few red shader nodes. There's a bit of nasty stretching of some of the lighter chunks, most noticeable in the shadows at the top-right, I'm sure I know why. I think the darker colours could use more texturing detail, as well.
And, as usual, I'm not sure on the colour balance, it looks ok on my screen but, I'm usually mistaken about what it actually looks like to other people, who have decent monitors. :-[
(https://sites.google.com/site/d4nd310/randomseed2.png)
Well, Martin, it's very dark! The critters as well, I wouldn't want them in my garden :D I think you should get more contrast between the sparrows (?) and the soil (either lighter). Perhaps a bit of bluish fill light from the left? And one or two sprouts having survived the last raid, and quickly developing into edible green?
But it's a nice idea!
The left side looks very good on my Dell 2310. The right side with the birds seems too dark. I hope this helps.
i didn't notice there were birds in this render until ulco pointed them out...
looks pretty much like the cornfield near my house after it was plowed
Lovely dark, fecund soil. What will we be harvesting next year? Something more interesting than broccoli I hope.
John
Looks pretty convincing Martin.
I like your field-rows by the way, convincing texturing as well. My only little crit regarding this is that I find the rows a bit steep/high and sharp.
The critters look pretty good, maybe maybe maybe a tiny tad bit too dark, but I think they're looking almost spot on.
So my go would be for a slightly brighter surface then.
Martin
I agree about the wee bit brighter and a few sprouts. What I would really like to see would be sand dunes using your principle.
flock that!...nice furrows, nice detailing! agree about the brightness,
Thanks, everyone. I gathered as much about the colour/brightness.
I have a second render on now that I've just edited, hopefully with better colour.
In the first one, when I look at it now, the colours between mud/birds seems kind of backwards. I wanted a nice dark brown mud but it's lacking a little red tint, whereas, the birds are appearing slightly reddish in comparison to this brown. I think I've fixed this now by adding a slightly red layer to the mud and making the birds a bit lighter and more of a flat brown. I'll see how it goes soon, it's only taking about half an hour to render this view so, no big deal about time.
There's also a little more tiny displacement now and the depth of the furrows is slightly less, as TU suggested. Post soon.
Ulco: Not actually sparrows at all, they're robins! I edited the texture because we rarely see robins around here when the fields are being ploughed and crops sowed. It is quite a nice little model that I wanted to use, any other little birdies I could find weren't up to the task of being this close to the camera.
Bob: I don't think that dunes would look very nice with this method. It is really just one long simple shape shader, replicated by a shader array node across the width of the image. Dunes would be far too repetitive, I think.
The furrows weren't really what I was working on, I just popped them in there to give the mud layer some extra features, other than a flat surface.
Cheers, all!
V.2.
(https://sites.google.com/site/d4nd310/randomseedv2.png)
I think the colours for the mud shader are much better now, what do you think? I'll see what I can do about adding some churned up grasses and shoots to this field next, I think.
* Edit: Replaced with .png as the .jpg was nasty.
Looking better already :)
Adding some dirt and churned up grasses is a good idea, hope you will find some nice suitable models for this.
The robin's are a bit too shiny now I think. Maybe reduce reflectivity by 20% and make it slightly rougher as well?
Tweaking these things can be a pain :(
Martin
See, here's my problem, I thought the little buggers looked too shiny in the first render, with specular at 0.05 so, I completely disabled spec' for this render, and I upped the bump as well. They still seem shiny to me too. I even tried a negative specular! :D
I'll add a wee bit more bump...
How about using a powerfractal as reflective function?
fat lookin feathered fiends!
You could try to make some changes to the models texture/diffuse map
in an image editor perhaps.
Maybe also add some overall population shade variances and a splash of a red or yellow chest or markings here and there.
I've used a fractal function for the colour map so it isn't so uniform, looking a fair bit better now. I also have some little grasses peeking through here and there. Upped the AA to 6/max from 5/max, as well. I'll post again later...
Cheers! :)
* Edit: Oh yes. GI RD upped to 3/3, from 2/3, too, since it's quite a close-up render of terrain detail only I can afford it, GI prepass was only about 10 minutes at this level.
Quote from: RArcher on November 04, 2010, 12:06:58 PM
Maybe also add some overall population shade variances and a splash of a red or yellow chest or markings here and there.
I considered this but I opted for the flat, boring brown, with no colour variation. I really can't tell one little brown bird from the next when I see them outside. :D
I think the fractal variation per object has made a nice improvement. I might not be finished with this for a while so, I've lots of room for further experimenting after this one that's running at the moment. We'll see.
Cheers, Ryan! :)
Is the GI of 3/3 really necessary, I wonder? There are not extreme displacements going on here I'd say, nor do they create difficult to light crevices etc.?
Nope, not necessary at all! :D Just thought I'd crank it since I was knocking out images in half an hour at a time. Upping the GI and AA as mentioned above doubled the render time, for very little(if any) benefit at all. :)
For the next one I'll revert both of those settings to their previous levels. I'm going to work on the texture images for the bird first. I think it isn't meeting together properly on the back of the bird, there's some stretching on the back and little black empty areas on the back of the head.
Here's the first iteration with some little greenies in.
(https://sites.google.com/site/d4nd310/v3.png)
DandelO , i can not say if it is a day or night kind of image .
The shadow looks like the sun is nearly over 50-55 degree high.
But it is so dark that it seams more like the light from the moon or so.
Did you tried it with a default scene for the lighting ? Maybe you did over done (under done ?) your fill lighting setup ?
The birds can be very dark sometimes but in this kind of picture we should (of course if it is daytime , not very cloudy or so) see them more clearly.
I think the main problem is the texture or-and lighting of the ground.
Just some random thoughts as you know, DandelO ;)
Now I believe I think I know what you are doing here; eventually, you will tilt the camera upward and lower it to fix a horizon - and, add a farmland background with some clouds. The final touch will be to add a scarecrow in the center of the seeded land which the birds will ignore ....right? - Or, am I dreaming?
Cheers, folks! :)
Bob: Good ideas, I might take some of them up later on. Just when I thought I'd walk away from this image after this post! :D
In the meantime, here's v.5:
(https://sites.google.com/site/d4nd310/randomseedv5.png)
I took some advices given here earlier. Again, I lowered the height of the furrows, now they're not so sharp and steep, and I reduced the red in the mud layers. I fixed the bird textures a bit, could be better, I'm not keen on the white of the wing tips and tails but, they're far better than before, regardless.
I also added some overall population colour variations, after all, and added a little more green stuff than I had before. I didn't post v.4.
Probably come back to this for a fresh take another day soon, hopefully with some more of the suggestions that I like the sound of. Not sure about a scarecrow because I'm not very good at modelling but, it had already crossed my mind, if I could find a decent one.
I didn't, however, intend on lifting the POV because this started as a simple surface shader test, where I was concentrating solely on the mud. Now that I'm sick of it, though, I might just take it in a different direction, later. Five full sized iterations in a day is plenty much for me, not to mention all the smaller LQ and HQ test renders. It's about time to empty the temp directory, anyway! I like searching through those before I delete them too because I'll probably come across a few things I've forgotten about, to go back to for a fresh take, it's been a while since I emptied it...
Cheers for the repeated lookings and input, everyone! :)
looking nice. About the birds - could it be, that the model is using a mirrored UV, or is it really just stretching?
In general, as it has been mentioned, it looks a bit to dark to me. That might be fine if later on there will be horizon/sky. But if you photograph the soil only, I guess you would increase exposure.
I like the "new" birds :) They look much better I think. The speculars will still be a problem since the model itself doesn't really provide much bump, probably.
Maybe this scene is a nice opportunity to test the GI fill method we discussed? :)
A thing I haven't discussed there (yet maybe) is that the detail in shadows and fill of GI is mainly regulated by atmosphere, but that also albedo of surfaces is of importance. I think that that's the reason here that your lighting looks rather dark because the albedo of the surfaces is rather low?
Well, it doesn't matter that much, I think you could still try the double atmo method.
Martin
Cheers, guys. :)
Thanks for the advice, and the grasses, Walli. :)
Small update, an un-muffled version.
(https://sites.google.com/site/d4nd310/randomseedv6.png)
Game over. Next.
Now this is a very good improvement Martin. The density of the birds is right on. It seems when these little guys prepare for the winter they chomp down on lots of seeds (building fat/carbohydrates) for the winter; whereas, in the spring the feast on bugs building on protein getting ready for egg laying ...whats this got to do with digital art?
In all, this is your best so far!
I went to great lengths to get here... Actually, no, I didn't. It's just a levels-edited version of the last image(v.5).
I visited a great PS help/tutorial site that Kadri posted somewhere here recently and learned far better methods for image manipulation than I'd previously been aware of how to do myself.
I'd normally simply balance contrast and colours, sharpen/blur, overlay/blend etc. when post processing renders. Now I've learned far better ways to decipher and tune an images' actual histogram and such.
I should probably read more fact, instead of fiction, then, my head wouldn't be so far in the clouds! :D
Cheers, man!
Yes! This is right on. The birds are quite real looking. The small detail grasses are great.
People would mistake this for a photo easily; wondering why take a photo of birds in a plowed field.
Jungian s would be wondering what to prescribe for your condition. ;D
I would probably stand and take a picture like this anyway! ;)
I do get funny looks from people sometimes, I'm sure lots of us here do. Standing pointing a phone at a tree, clouds, ground.
"What's that weirdo doing at the park?" "Must have a gravel fetish, or something. Probably best avoid him! Come along, children, stop staring at the strange man, he's obviously quite disturbed." :D
A great improvement, Martin. Good light now, and the birds look great. Actually (I'm one of these crazy birders) they look like young European robins. Especially on the one in the down right corner I see it's back feathers just like young robins have. The eye looks incredibly real, all in all a nice object to have waiting to be used. The only thing is that its hand feathers and tail are a bit too shiny, they should be darker. Is there some reflectivity there?
Hi, Ulco. The birds are actually robins so, you're right on with that assumption. I edited the texture to remove the red breast and I slightly manipulated the main colours too because the TG outputs of the original texture came out with a kind of green/red tint, compared to the brown mud. The feather texture is firstly broken up a bit with a fractal in the colour function and secondly, with a 3x Perlin population variation over the population scale.
I had to omit the specular entirely because even without spec', the model looks extremely shiny and raising the bump mapping didn't help past a certain point, I have it(bump) as high as I can without looking too fake, just now, I can imagine this to be feathers, any higher, though, and it looks like bumps.
Incidentally, the eye is just part of the main body of the model, not a separate object and as such, it's just textured with the main image map, no special trickery with reflectivity or anything. Here's the link to the original bird (http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/details?mid=6810cb0494823d9c5c351e299b24e355&prevstart=0).
Thank you, Sir! :)
Ulco , there is a new video about Lightwave 10 that is in a way very informative in a general way too:
http://tv.newtek.com/player.php?recordID=99
This is a old thread about the same problem. 5 pages long :
http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94046&highlight=tonemapping
These are from here:
http://forums.planetside.co.uk/index.php?topic=8834.0
http://forums.planetside.co.uk/index.php?topic=1884.0
This is from a link that Oshyan gave somewhere here:
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/graphics/colorspace-faq/
How much they are related to your problem is another thing , but the " Colour " section from the image map shader
( http://www.planetside.co.uk/docs/tg2/noderef/window_7_1_5.html?MenuState=HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAEAAAABEAAABAEAAAA8VRVFAAAEAAEQAAB )
needs a little more explanation . At least there could be links like these there for better understanding.
These are good technical things to know.
But of course this is art too.
If someone likes his images as they are or want to break rules or don't like rules what can we say :)
QuoteHow much they are related to your problem is another thing
I didn't know I had a problem >:( but thanks for the information, Kadri. Interesting stuff!
And thanks for the link, Martin, although I cannot use a sketchup file. Did you convert it to obj or tgo?
Ups sorry ! i shouldn't post when i haven't slept more than a day !
This was more about the image that DandelO made Ulco and not directly for you.
Why i mentioned you i don't know ; it may be my subconscious :)
Because i think your images and technique are one of the best we see here on the forum or anywhere.
When i see your name i know that there will be something nice .
Only they seem sometimes a little washed out to me .
But here on the forum are many images that need that kind of approach .
My images aren't better from this standpoint too.
I had not the slightest knowledge about tonemapping or level adjustments and such until the last 2-3 years or so ago .