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General => Terragen Discussion => Topic started by: Snowflake on December 05, 2010, 09:54:32 AM

Title: Require: Terragen 2 VFX advanced Video Tutorials
Post by: Snowflake on December 05, 2010, 09:54:32 AM
Require: Terragen 2.2 for VFX Mattepainting - behind the Basics Tutorial

Useful realistic Matte Paintings Technique by creating with Terragen 2.2 Elements

Reasons: Terragen 2 with Xfrog is often used for independent VFX-Projects, but there is not any advanced Video tutorial behind the basics or Training stuff around the web, so it would be a highlight. The techniques in this video are major time savers for all TG users and also shows the possibility of TG.

Create one complete detailed and realistic Landscape from scratch (still or animate) in Terragen 2.2. And perhaps a second Part - Compositing this with Mattepainting in a Live Footage.

Before
http://www.artofvfx.com/BOE/BOE_HATCH_VFX_01B.jpg

After
http://www.artofvfx.com/BOE/BOE_HATCH_VFX_01A.jpg

For free or as high quality more Hour Lessons for paid - perhaps at $25 and you find guaranteed up to 30 Users around the world which buy this...
Thanks 

Ps.: Pandorra is the challenge :)
http://h-2.abload.de/img/screen_pandorazyii.jpg
Title: Re: Require: Terragen 2 VFX advanced Video Tutorials
Post by: cyphyr on December 05, 2010, 10:09:49 AM
Welcome to the forum:)

Not quite sure what your saying here :)
Are you offering the video tutorial, seeing if there is a market for a video tutorial or asking if such a tutorial exists?
VFX pipelines seem to be mostly developed "in-house" simple (imho) because of the vast number of possible routes available between Terragen and a finished video.
If your offering a Terragen>Lightwave>AfterFX VFX tutorial you could count me in :)
Richard
Title: Re: Require: Terragen 2 VFX advanced Video Tutorials
Post by: Tangled-Universe on December 05, 2010, 10:26:34 AM
I think he's looking for someone who can make a tutorial on how to make a scene for scratch.
He either wants that done for free or paid per hour (up to $25/hour).
Title: Re: Require: Terragen 2 VFX advanced Video Tutorials
Post by: Snowflake on December 05, 2010, 10:34:47 AM
I'am Lightwave/Fusion Artist for independent Film Production and new to TG (tried VUE  ;D) for creating parts of Landscapes for VFX. Require: means searching for this stuff. As i look around the www, there is nothing advanced quality Videos and the documentation of TG is ....  :-\

I don't talk about VFX pipelines of major Studios like IML - independent Film Production.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x963wt_middleearth-magic-cgivfx-reel_shortfilms

NO: (up to $25/hour) - Offer this Tutorial for $25-$35 for all Users - is this so unusual ... a realistic Software Training for TG.
http://vimeo.com/15994859

So i hope for this Lessons...
-robert-
Title: Re: Require: Terragen 2 VFX advanced Video Tutorials
Post by: Tangled-Universe on December 05, 2010, 11:01:07 AM
Hi Robert,

So to get this clear:
You would like someone to create the tutorial, pay that person per hour for creating it and then sell it?
If not, could you be more specific?

Cheers,
Martin
Title: Re: Require: Terragen 2 VFX advanced Video Tutorials
Post by: FrankB on December 05, 2010, 03:57:03 PM
No Martin, it's very simple:

He would like to go to a say TG2 elearning site and sign up for a recorded tutorial/class on the subject. He thinks the $$ value of such a tutorial or online class is around $35, and that there will more people willing to pay money for this.

Regards,
Frank
Title: Re: Require: Terragen 2 VFX advanced Video Tutorials
Post by: Cyber-Angel on December 05, 2010, 04:07:55 PM
What I think Snowflake is referring to camera mapping and maybe even camera tracking for matching Terragen elements to live action plates or create high resolution matte work for either post production work or even pre-production concept art.

What I think snowflake is asking for is the kind of advanced training video martial produced by the likes of Digital Tutors, beyond the the basics of using TG2!

I think he is looking for training from the stand point of the VFX artist ether from the digital terrain enhancement or replacement by the integration of TG2 scenes with either other VFX elements form other DAC software such as Autodesk Maya or Side-Effects Houdini and/or live action plates or even using TG2 for concept art.

TG2 as of now dose not have the feature set for Camera Mapping nor can it use camera tracking  data and there is no need for Planetside to make their own tracker as there many good ones out there already.

That is what I think he is asking for, as far as I can tell.

Regrads to you

Cyber-Angel                  
Title: Re: Require: Terragen 2 VFX advanced Video Tutorials
Post by: Snowflake on December 05, 2010, 04:42:28 PM
Don't make it too complicated   ;)

Cyber-Angel your are right: "advanced training video martial produced by anyone who is able to do this the likes of Digital Tutors". You can offer this anywhere perhaps at nwdanet.com.

No Camera Mapping, No VFX, no tracking, thats done in Fusion/NUKE or AfterEffects - only realistic landscapes creation in TG2, which are able to use as Mattepainting for real Footage integration as shown in the first post.

For VUE/Maya, etc. there are hundred of Videos Tutorials around the web, for TG2 perhaps 10-12, always short superficial Basics.
http://snurl.com/1l9ber   

Start the TG2 high quality advanced elearning series, make money and let the Users learn.
Title: Re: Require: Terragen 2 VFX advanced Video Tutorials
Post by: FrankB on December 05, 2010, 04:55:28 PM
Hello Robert,

we have plans to integrate elearning for professional users at NWDA. It's something we're in preparation mode for at the moment. More precisely, we're researching the best infrastructure to deliver elearning in a cost effective and scalable way. IF we can setup the infrastructure as we require, chances are that NWDA will go live with elearning at some point.
However eventually, we'd like to go beyond a simple tutorial (regardless how advanced the topics may be), and provide a true curriculum, maybe even with knowledge certification, but no details are decided yet.

We will be well into 2011 before we may go live, but I'll remember you as a potential customer for this offering ;)

Is there anyone else reading this thread and honestly interested in such a commercial grade elearning offering?

Regards;
Frank
Title: Re: Require: Terragen 2 VFX advanced Video Tutorials
Post by: cyphyr on December 05, 2010, 05:21:15 PM
I'd be extremely interested in learning how to integrate Terragen with live action footage. I can match up models and terrains from Terragen to Lightwave and back again because I can control everything in both programs (matts, shadow passes, z-depth etc) but live action footage would be another matter entirely.
:)
Richard
ps: Thinking about this (well the bit I'd be interested in ;) ) it isn't really a TG issue. The issue is knowing how to use the output from Terragen in your final compositing package.
Maybe a short set of tuts on how to set up matting, masking, z-depth, shadow etc would be a step in a useful direction.
Title: Re: Require: Terragen 2 VFX advanced Video Tutorials
Post by: goldfarb on December 05, 2010, 10:29:33 PM
this is the area that I am exploring right now as I get back into terragen...
I'm a character FX guy and a Houdini user so I'm accustomed to working in a VFX pipeline - currently there really isn't much information out there about using terragen properly in a pipeline - so that's what I'm going to try to learn/develop - how to use TG in VFX.
I'll be sharing whatever I learn (and will hope to get comments/improvements form the folks here), but tutorials on the subject would be great.
Title: Re: Require: Terragen 2 VFX advanced Video Tutorials
Post by: Snowflake on December 06, 2010, 02:28:55 PM
Quote from: goldfarb on December 05, 2010, 10:29:33 PM
currently there really isn't much information out there about using terragen properly in a pipeline - so that's what I'm going to try to learn/develop - how to use TG in VFX.

There is nothing different to Houdini or Lightwave to use TG2 in a VFX pipeline  ;) TG renders EXR, perhaps it needs something more supported multi-pass channels or Multi-Layer (Specular, Diffuse, Ambient, Shadows, etc.).

The important subject of my requested Tutorials is the TG2 Part to create realistic Lightning/Atmosphere and Material/Tree Shaders that work with the Live-Footage. You also unusual render a Full image, sometimes you only need Background Mountains with clouds.

This image is nice, but the Foreground Trees never works as Mattepainting.
http://www.planetside.co.uk/gallery/f/tg2/Giomez_2030_3.jpg.html

And this image rendered in Full HD is perfect for LIVE-Action or Greenscreen Actors in Foreground
http://www.planetside.co.uk/gallery/f/tg2/Darthvader-Rain_is_Coming_by_Gannaingh32.jpg.html

Here is an Example of replacing Background:

Original Plate
http://www.fxguide.com/modules/NewsUpload/files/09Nov/proposal/vfx_111_03_original.jpg

Final Comp
http://www.fxguide.com/modules/NewsUpload/files/09Nov/proposal/vfx_111_03_comp.jpg
Title: Re: Require: Terragen 2 VFX advanced Video Tutorials
Post by: PeterParker on December 08, 2010, 09:54:06 AM
Oh Yes, this would be great!
Can you please add me to your subscriber list? :)


Quote from: FrankB on December 05, 2010, 04:55:28 PM
Hello Robert,

we have plans to integrate elearning for professional users at NWDA. It's something we're in preparation mode for at the moment. More precisely, we're researching the best infrastructure to deliver elearning in a cost effective and scalable way. IF we can setup the infrastructure as we require, chances are that NWDA will go live with elearning at some point.
However eventually, we'd like to go beyond a simple tutorial (regardless how advanced the topics may be), and provide a true curriculum, maybe even with knowledge certification, but no details are decided yet.

We will be well into 2011 before we may go live, but I'll remember you as a potential customer for this offering ;)

Is there anyone else reading this thread and honestly interested in such a commercial grade elearning offering?

Regards;
Frank
Title: Re: Require: Terragen 2 VFX advanced Video Tutorials
Post by: Snowflake on December 17, 2010, 09:51:14 AM
Okay, all waiting for 2011, there are many subscribers  ;)

Let me know is Landscape Set extension possible with TG 2 and acceptable rendertimes in Full HD?

Before
http://www.fxguide.com/modules/NewsUpload/files/10Dec/nar/DawnTreader_Cinesite_island_before.jpg

After
http://www.fxguide.com/modules/NewsUpload/files/10Dec/nar/DawnTreader_Cinesite_island_after.jpg

Title: Re: Require: Terragen 2 VFX advanced Video Tutorials
Post by: Tangled-Universe on December 17, 2010, 10:01:53 AM
Certainly that's possibe. Especially when there's not too much parallax going and a high-res backdrop is sufficient then TG2 is very suitable for this type of work.
The output would be quite fast.
Also for animated sequences of terrain TG2 is suitable, but perhaps a bit too slow for flicker-free full HD output.
Title: Re: Require: Terragen 2 VFX advanced Video Tutorials
Post by: Snowflake on December 19, 2010, 11:21:51 AM
Quote from: Tangled-Universe on December 17, 2010, 10:01:53 AM
Also for animated sequences of terrain TG2 is suitable, but perhaps a bit too slow for flicker-free full HD output.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrsR1TGMUpo&NR=1  ;)
Title: Re: Require: Terragen 2 VFX advanced Video Tutorials
Post by: Tangled-Universe on December 19, 2010, 12:11:46 PM
Quote from: Snowflake on December 19, 2010, 11:21:51 AM
Quote from: Tangled-Universe on December 17, 2010, 10:01:53 AM
Also for animated sequences of terrain TG2 is suitable, but perhaps a bit too slow for flicker-free full HD output.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrsR1TGMUpo&NR=1  ;)

Yes? Vray scatter, so?
Title: Re: Require: Terragen 2 VFX advanced Video Tutorials
Post by: Seth on December 19, 2010, 03:56:50 PM
too bad that the camera go through the trees :)
Title: Re: Require: Terragen 2 VFX advanced Video Tutorials
Post by: Snowflake on December 20, 2010, 06:26:48 AM
Quote from: Tangled-Universe on December 19, 2010, 12:11:46 PM
Yes? Vray scatter, so?

The question was: external Render with TG2 like VrayScatter or Brazil or KRAY render!?
Title: Re: Require: Terragen 2 VFX advanced Video Tutorials
Post by: Tangled-Universe on December 20, 2010, 07:21:37 AM
Quote from: Snowflake on December 17, 2010, 09:51:14 AM
Let me know is Landscape Set extension possible with TG 2 and acceptable rendertimes in Full HD?

As far as I know this was the question about TG2 so therefore I don't understand why this Vray reel came up.


So now the question is if an external renderer can work with TG2 scenes. No, not directly.
You would need to export geometry (and 2D texture perhaps) from TG2 and render and/or populate that with whateverer renderer/plugin for that renderer you like.
Title: Re: Require: Terragen 2 VFX advanced Video Tutorials
Post by: Postglory on December 24, 2010, 05:12:00 PM
Hi, I just thought I'd throw in my 2 peneth.

I have used camera tracking data in Terragen2 but to do it you need to use a work around.  The info is in the forums you just got to hunt it down. I was using XSI.
The way I did it was to output the live action plate camera tracking data from the tacking program in to .xsi format, and used a plugin to convert it into .chan format, I then loaded it into the camera in Terragen2.
It took me a lot of trial and error as the xsi plugin was created by another user in jscript and was a work in progress.
I have also used the plugin available for 3Dsmax, it is amazing and hassle free.

I feel that animation is better off done in another 3D program and exported to Terragen2, I mean by using the Terragen2 mesh export as a guide.  An FBX import/exporter would be great and I understand is in the pipeline, but who knows how long before it will be available.

For live action only very close work would need to be rendering directly in Terragen2 which would be matched with  live action matchmove data  for example a fully greenscreened actor, his feet contacting with a terragen surface.  But for most set extension stuff an environment sphere/cube or an image matte could be used, and a camera projection set up in another compositing program such as Nuke to match the close depth perception.

Here are a couple of the things I did.
This one is a simple test of live action camera tracking data fed into Terragen via XSI plugin.
http://vimeo.com/8652516   (http://vimeo.com/8652516)

This one is at the beginning of my current show reel where the base jumper jumps off a tower, I was pushed for time and only had time to render the scene at a much reduced detail level (rendered frame by frame in Terragen2) but you get the idea, also I should have taken my own advice here and used a BG matte within XSI, although I was using it to learn the workflow between matchmove XSI and Terragen2.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKILGFFbWcQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKILGFFbWcQ)

The truth is out there, you just got to dig.
Title: Re: Require: Terragen 2 VFX advanced Video Tutorials
Post by: Snowflake on March 11, 2011, 03:20:48 PM
Require: Terragen 2.2 for VFX Mattepainting - behind the Basics Tutorial

Useful realistic Matte Paintings Technique by creating with Terragen 2.2 Elements

Quote from: FrankB on December 05, 2010, 04:55:28 PM

However eventually, we'd like to go beyond a simple tutorial (regardless how advanced the topics may be), and provide a true curriculum, maybe even with knowledge certification, but no details are decided yet.

We will be well into 2011 before we may go live, but I'll remember you as a potential customer for this offering ;)

Is there anyone else reading this thread and honestly interested in such a commercial grade elearning offering?

Any news about this advanced tutorials for TG use in Production?
Title: Re: Require: Terragen 2 VFX advanced Video Tutorials
Post by: FrankB on March 11, 2011, 04:14:20 PM
Hi Snowflake, we've had only very limited response to the idea. I don't think we'll go down that path. Shame somehow, but maybe the time isn't right yet for this.

Regards,
Frank
Title: Re: Require: Terragen 2 VFX advanced Video Tutorials
Post by: Snowflake on March 16, 2011, 04:49:47 PM
Hmm, the time isn't right for what - TG for VFX or TG Trainings Lessons ???

The Tutorials and stuff here or on planetside are good and helpful, but they aren't a comprehensive training course. I don't understand why NO one is able to create an advanced TG Video Tutorial?

For VUE there are 5 or more companies and professionals Users which produce dozens of free or commercial Trainigsvideos from 1 to 3 hours and they earned money with this.

A good TG advanced Video Tutorial - one hour for 29$ for example and will sold 20-30 times isn't enough ..!?

The detailed continuous Documentation of TG 2 and all parameters is poor at the moment and i need a time saving way to go from this:

http://forums.planetside.co.uk/index.php?topic=7733.0

to this realistic results like this: http://vimeo.com/14041305

Sorry, no Advanced Lessons for TG it's my knock out criteria to buy TG for production use  :-\
Title: Re: Require: Terragen 2 VFX advanced Video Tutorials
Post by: FrankB on March 16, 2011, 05:06:06 PM
Quote from: Snowflake on March 16, 2011, 04:49:47 PM
Hmm, the time isn't right for what - TG for VFX or TG Trainings Lessons ???

Time is not right me (!) to produce these and provide the infrastructure to sell and make them available. Not more, not less.

But I have good news for you ( and I don't mean to sound ironic, this is really what I think): if all you want is to learn how to go from your first link to the second, just start a scene, post it here as a WIP, and ask for advice step by step. I bet you'll be at your desired destination (video) in under a week. The animation you were referencing isn't difficult to make at all.

Regards,
Frank
Title: Re: Require: Terragen 2 VFX advanced Video Tutorials
Post by: walwop on March 27, 2011, 12:04:19 AM
so I take it there are no plans for creating a comprehensive and advance terragen tutorials?

I guess we can always experiment and learn through trial an error however the tuts would have saved allot of time.

sorry for any mistakes English is not my first language.