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General => Open Discussion => Topic started by: sjefen on December 06, 2010, 01:20:34 PM

Title: World Machine 2 Alpine Terrain Help
Post by: sjefen on December 06, 2010, 01:20:34 PM
The best place would usually be to post this in the World Machine forum, but it's not really
a to active forum.

I want to create a more alpine terrain if you understand what I mean. Something more like the images below:
(http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs27/f/2008/179/0/7/Ghost_Mountain_by_Caffeine_Romance.jpg)
(http://www.mountain7.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/mounteverest.jpg)

I can't figure out how to make those type of erosions. I always end up with the same kind of thing like in the image below.
I'm really not good with World Machine, but is there anyone who can help me with this?
As you can see in the terrain I made there are erosions everywhere, but in the mountains over there are not.
How can I control this kind of thing?

Regards,
Terje
Title: Re: World Machine 2 Alpine Terrain Help
Post by: dhavalmistry on December 06, 2010, 01:53:33 PM
I am not very good at WM2 either but I am getting 3 different ideas as how to approach this.....

1. you could use ramp as mask to the erosion node
2. you could use clamp on erosion node
3. there is a node called select slope, you could use the selected slope to mask the erosion

I hope this helps :)
Title: Re: World Machine 2 Alpine Terrain Help
Post by: sjefen on December 06, 2010, 02:38:39 PM
Hi dhavalmistry,

I will try that and see how it goes.
Tanks.

Regards,
Terje
Title: Re: World Machine 2 Alpine Terrain Help
Post by: Oshyan on December 06, 2010, 03:24:51 PM
I'm pretty sure you should be able to get results similar to the above entirely in the erosion nodes, depending on the shape of your base terrain of course (a ridged perlin probably being a good possibility). Experiment with the Rock Hardness and Sediment Carry, among other things. Thermal Erosion might also be a good pre-filter before the normal erosion filter, to give the right shape to the mountains.

But then, I am no WM expert either. ;)

- Oshyan
Title: Re: World Machine 2 Alpine Terrain Help
Post by: Goms on December 06, 2010, 04:55:10 PM
Try a high rock hardness and a low sedimentary amount. I don't know that much about wm2, but i'm using 1.x since some years.


best regards,
Goms
Title: Re: World Machine 2 Alpine Terrain Help
Post by: Tangled-Universe on December 10, 2010, 06:29:52 PM
Hi Terje,

How are you going with this?

Cheers,
Martin
Title: Re: World Machine 2 Alpine Terrain Help
Post by: dhavalmistry on December 10, 2010, 08:18:49 PM
yea I am looking forward to the terrain as well...
Title: Re: World Machine 2 Alpine Terrain Help
Post by: sjefen on December 12, 2010, 09:47:11 AM
Hehe.... I'm sorry, but I have no luck with this, but I'm
not even sure i plug the nodes in the right places either.

I've been away this weekend too, but if I make any progress
I'll let you know  ;)

Regards,
Terje
Title: Re: World Machine 2 Alpine Terrain Help
Post by: Tangled-Universe on December 12, 2010, 03:36:28 PM
How about this?

Cheers,
Martin
Title: Re: World Machine 2 Alpine Terrain Help
Post by: RArcher on December 12, 2010, 05:24:33 PM
That looks pretty damn nice Martin!  Can you also export the erosion layers as masks?
Title: Re: World Machine 2 Alpine Terrain Help
Post by: Tangled-Universe on December 13, 2010, 02:21:08 AM
Quote from: RArcher on December 12, 2010, 05:24:33 PM
That looks pretty damn nice Martin!  Can you also export the erosion layers as masks?

Of course, default workflow for me :)
Title: Re: World Machine 2 Alpine Terrain Help
Post by: Henry Blewer on December 13, 2010, 08:38:10 AM
World Machine will allow multiple types of masks for each terrain type. It is quite powerful, but I prefer Terragen 2's methods.
Title: Re: World Machine 2 Alpine Terrain Help
Post by: Goms on December 13, 2010, 08:58:32 AM
i think it depends. if you want realistic erosion WM is IMHO the best way. Also i can imagine with the newer version that supports multithreading, it shouldn't be a problem (and pretty fast) to build a terrain in TG2, export it with 8192^2 and then import it again. (you might even use a merge shader to get the difference and then only use this to keep the fractal detail.)

Title: Re: World Machine 2 Alpine Terrain Help
Post by: sjefen on December 13, 2010, 11:05:44 AM
Hi again,

I don't think I was too clear on what I want. I've painted a little on the image
below to try and better demonstrate what I mean.

The red lines I've made is suppose to represent the main shape of the mountains.
As you can see, there aren't very much erosion going on where the lines are.

I understand that some of that is probably cause by a lot of snow cover, but
isn't it possible to make something similar to this with World Machine?

Regards,
Terje
Title: Re: World Machine 2 Alpine Terrain Help
Post by: dhavalmistry on December 13, 2010, 11:23:42 AM
what you need is "Sharp Ridged" as the style in advanced perlin node
Title: Re: World Machine 2 Alpine Terrain Help
Post by: Tangled-Universe on December 13, 2010, 01:20:04 PM
Quote from: sjefen on December 13, 2010, 11:05:44 AM
Hi again,

I don't think I was too clear on what I want. I've painted a little on the image
below to try and better demonstrate what I mean.

The red lines I've made is suppose to represent the main shape of the mountains.
As you can see, there aren't very much erosion going on where the lines are.

I understand that some of that is probably cause by a lot of snow cover, but
isn't it possible to make something similar to this with World Machine?

Regards,
Terje

How close was my example?

(FYI, my example uses sharp ridged advanced perlin)
Title: Re: World Machine 2 Alpine Terrain Help
Post by: sjefen on December 13, 2010, 02:23:09 PM
Hello Martin,

Well...... what you have is something I think I can reproduce. Don't get
me wrong, it's a cool terrain, but it's just not quite what I'm looking for.

I found a image in the World Machine gallery that shows what I want. It's
posted below. Problem is that the person who made it used Maya for the
base mesh and  then took in in to WM for detailing.

(http://world-machine.com/gallery/images/1282441766_Mount_Everest_3d_by_rhodeder.jpg)

Is this possible to recreate with WM alone?

Regards,
Terje
Title: Re: World Machine 2 Alpine Terrain Help
Post by: AP on December 13, 2010, 02:27:26 PM
Just mask your erosion node in WM. That way you limit where it takes place and how much is present.
Title: Re: World Machine 2 Alpine Terrain Help
Post by: Tangled-Universe on December 13, 2010, 02:39:30 PM
Hi Terje,

No worries, it was just an attempt.
Without reading your reply I played a bit with it in the last hour. See below.
This example has a bit of the branching and sharp ridges you mention.

After reading your reply I see what you mean.
I know that image, it's pretty cool :)
Without looking at the textures I think this should be possible.
My first guess is a low-octave lowish persistence ridged perlin noise as a base.
Then the erosion should be masked out to taper off at the maximum height.
Or perhaps you set erosion very high to get smooth slopes.
There are a couple of ways you can approach this.

I'lll have a further play with it :)

Martin
Title: Re: World Machine 2 Alpine Terrain Help
Post by: sjefen on December 13, 2010, 02:44:49 PM
That's cool and please do post your results here if you don't mind :)

I'll keep trying myself, but I really do suck with WM. I don't even understand
how to mask the erosion like you guys are trying to tell me  ??? ::) hehe

Regards,
Terje
Title: Re: World Machine 2 Alpine Terrain Help
Post by: AP on December 13, 2010, 05:45:11 PM
What do you think of this. I have to admit, this is very hard to get that certain look you are after. Could be a program limitation.
Title: Re: World Machine 2 Alpine Terrain Help
Post by: sjefen on December 13, 2010, 06:38:41 PM
Hey Chris,

Could you maybe change the angle?
It's a little hard to see the shapes from that angle.

Regards,
Terje
Title: Re: World Machine 2 Alpine Terrain Help
Post by: AP on December 13, 2010, 06:59:31 PM
How is this angle?
Title: Re: World Machine 2 Alpine Terrain Help
Post by: AP on December 16, 2010, 02:26:21 AM
Well, can't say i did not try.
Title: Re: World Machine 2 Alpine Terrain Help
Post by: Tangled-Universe on December 16, 2010, 07:16:39 AM
That looks pretty interesting Chris.

Can you put the .tmd file here if you'd like?

I can post mine as well if anyone's interested?

Cheers,
Martin
Title: Re: World Machine 2 Alpine Terrain Help
Post by: AP on December 17, 2010, 12:23:31 AM
Sure, i have another one you all can play with as well.    ;)
Title: Re: World Machine 2 Alpine Terrain Help
Post by: Oshyan on December 17, 2010, 12:51:30 AM
Is this any closer?

- Oshyan
Title: Re: World Machine 2 Alpine Terrain Help
Post by: sjefen on December 17, 2010, 04:24:15 AM
Hi Oshyan,

That looks a little bit closer to what I want, but it is still missing that massive part if you understand?

Regards,
Terje
Title: Re: World Machine 2 Alpine Terrain Help
Post by: Tangled-Universe on December 17, 2010, 07:02:26 AM
Tweaked Oshyan's setup a bit...
Title: Re: World Machine 2 Alpine Terrain Help
Post by: dhavalmistry on December 17, 2010, 10:27:25 AM
nice terrain TU!
Title: Re: World Machine 2 Alpine Terrain Help
Post by: Oshyan on December 17, 2010, 03:58:07 PM
Not sure what you mean by "massive" really. The scale is often more determined by how you surface map something and/or what objects or other visual cues (e.g. atmospheric haze) you put in to imply scale. The terrains Martin and I have posted could easily be used at "massive" scale in TG, making for very large mountains, and would give a great impression of scale with appropriate atmospherics, plant populations, etc.

Now if it's the *shape* that's still a problem, that's another matter.

- Oshyan
Title: Re: World Machine 2 Alpine Terrain Help
Post by: sjefen on December 19, 2010, 08:37:37 AM
Hi Oshyan,

I'm sorry. "Massive" was a poor description. It's just very hard to explain what
I'm after. All I can say is that I want something that looks more like the last
image I posted.

Anyway.... I think I might be on to something now. I played a little with the
snow function and it gave some interesting results and it looks like it can help
getting me in the right direction. I'll post the results when the build is finished.

Regards,
Terje
Title: Re: World Machine 2 Alpine Terrain Help
Post by: Tangled-Universe on December 19, 2010, 09:50:39 AM
I'm curious :) Is it finished already? ;)
Title: Re: World Machine 2 Alpine Terrain Help
Post by: sjefen on December 19, 2010, 10:49:39 AM
Yep. It's finished, but as a I said.... this still isn't what I'm after, but
I think it is a step in the right direction. I will at least test the snow
function a little more.

There is a problem however. You see that straight, ugly line in the
middle of the terrain? I don't know what that is and it didn't show up
in the low resolution build. Any idea on what that might be?

Regards,
Terje
Title: Re: World Machine 2 Alpine Terrain Help
Post by: Tangled-Universe on December 19, 2010, 12:13:46 PM
That looks pretty cool!
Where's the .tmd dude? ;)
I could check the line then, but I from my head I think it's the cutoff setting in the snow macro.
Title: Re: World Machine 2 Alpine Terrain Help
Post by: sjefen on December 19, 2010, 01:16:40 PM
Yeah. It was the cutoff thing  ;)
I can't see any option that may help getting the line smoother.
For now I just made the snow from the bottom to get rid of it.

Regards,
Terje
Title: Re: World Machine 2 Alpine Terrain Help
Post by: Tangled-Universe on December 19, 2010, 01:54:10 PM
Don't forget the .tmd ;)
Title: Re: World Machine 2 Alpine Terrain Help
Post by: sjefen on December 19, 2010, 03:50:28 PM
Here it is  ;)

- Terje
Title: Re: World Machine 2 Alpine Terrain Help
Post by: AP on December 20, 2010, 06:48:43 PM
Thank you for the preset. I certainly never would have thought of using the Snow Node to flatten out parts of the mountain face. Of course i had to tone the size down to 2048 because i ran out of memory and it still took an hour to render.
Title: Re: World Machine 2 Alpine Terrain Help
Post by: sjefen on December 20, 2010, 06:55:44 PM
No problem  ;)

I just imported the terrain to Terragen and did some tests. I got some
interesting results and I think I'll try to finish this project. It's been a while
since I've played with Terragen anyway :P

Regards,
Terje
Title: Re: World Machine 2 Alpine Terrain Help
Post by: Oshyan on December 20, 2010, 08:02:50 PM
That looks quite nice!

- Oshyan
Title: Re: World Machine 2 Alpine Terrain Help
Post by: Njen on December 20, 2010, 09:03:21 PM
It does look nice. It certainly has the beginnings of what could be a fantastic looking image.
Title: Re: World Machine 2 Alpine Terrain Help
Post by: Tangled-Universe on December 21, 2010, 02:24:18 AM
Simple, but cool WM2 setup Terje. The use of the layout generator is clever. With some copy/pasting and rotating of the current vectors you can easily extend your terrain a bit further.

The TG2 render looks promising :) I guess you used a mix of the snow mask and normal surfacing for the snow?

Cheers,
Martin
Title: Re: World Machine 2 Alpine Terrain Help
Post by: sjefen on December 21, 2010, 04:26:24 AM
I always try to use the layout generator. It makes it a lot easier to control the basic shape of the terrain.

Yep. That is correct. I used two layers of snow. One standard and one masked with the flow map ;)

- Terje
Title: Re: World Machine 2 Alpine Terrain Help
Post by: sjefen on December 22, 2010, 06:59:10 AM
Quote from: Tangled-Universe on December 21, 2010, 02:24:18 AM

The TG2 render looks promising :) I guess you used a mix of the snow mask and normal surfacing for the snow?

Cheers,
Martin

Did you mean the snow mask from the snow node? If so.... no. I didn't. I tried using that, but it looked like crap.

- Terje