Hi,
this is a test render of the upcoming NWDA HD Pine Pack, made by Walli.
I have used 7 out of 8 variations that come with the pack, plus species from the dry bush bundle pack, and FrankB Better Grass from the NWDA Community Store.
What do you think?
Frank
looks really good! looks better at that resolution, cant wait until they become available.
i noticed at least two of the trees is missing some bark, good idea!
yeah there are a few issues left with the textures which will be taken care of before the release.
salivating....
I'm loving these new generation of HD tress coming out, they really push the realism of the images to a new level.
Now we have 64bit version of TG we can handle these high memory objects a lot better now so keep um coming :)
Hi Frank,
Look pretty nice, although it would be nice if we couldn't see the bark image repeat all the way up the trunk, Looks like a Barber Shop Pole ;) Could walli make seamless tiles for the bark that wouldn't show the seams as much? Also, could you offer these as single trees so we can choose the ones we want? The fir bundle was rather expensive and may be out of reach for some users.
Jay
Quote from: buzzzzz1 on May 19, 2011, 07:56:50 AM
Hi Frank,
Look pretty nice, although it would be nice if we couldn't see the bark image repeat all the way up the trunk, Looks like a Barber Shop Pole ;) Could walli make seamless tiles for the bark that wouldn't show the seams as much? Also, could you offer these as single trees so we can choose the ones we want? The fir bundle was rather expensive and may be out of reach for some users.
Jay
Hi Jay,
regarding the bark texture... Walli's on it.
Regarding the single purchases... maybe for some models single purchases can be offered. I will think about it, really, but no promises yet.
Cheers,
Frank
Quote from: FrankB on May 19, 2011, 08:09:01 AM
Quote from: buzzzzz1 on May 19, 2011, 07:56:50 AM
Hi Frank,
Look pretty nice, although it would be nice if we couldn't see the bark image repeat all the way up the trunk, Looks like a Barber Shop Pole ;) Could walli make seamless tiles for the bark that wouldn't show the seams as much? Also, could you offer these as single trees so we can choose the ones we want? The fir bundle was rather expensive and may be out of reach for some users.
Jay
Hi Jay,
regarding the bark texture... Walli's on it.
Regarding the single purchases... maybe for some models single purchases can be offered. I will think about it, really, but no promises yet.
Cheers,
Frank
Thanks for your reply Frank. Wasn't going there but after purchasing the fir bundle for around 49.00 US I was very disappointed. I will be very reluctant to purchase this bundle if offered at the same price, if I purchase it at all. Why would you or walli not offer as single plants? It's your choice and your business though. Good Luck!
Quote from: buzzzzz1 on May 19, 2011, 08:33:21 AM
...
Thanks for your reply Frank. Wasn't going there but after purchasing the fir bundle for around 49.00 US I was very disappointed. I will be very reluctant to purchase this bundle if offered at the same price, if I purchase it at all. Why would you or walli not offer as single plants? It's your choice and your business though. Good Luck!
Why have you been disappointed, Jay? I recall that you thought they would turn out too dark, but that can be easily adjusted individually. Was there anything else?
Shouldn't have been $49 US, I think with the € to US exchange rate back then this should have been more like $39 US, but anyway... we don't want our customers to be unhappy customers. Walli and I would like to understand what your disappointment was about, so that we can address it. The images we rendered for demo purposed turned out fine.
Thanks,
Frank
Quote from: FrankB on May 19, 2011, 09:08:40 AM
Quote from: buzzzzz1 on May 19, 2011, 08:33:21 AM
...
Thanks for your reply Frank. Wasn't going there but after purchasing the fir bundle for around 49.00 US I was very disappointed. I will be very reluctant to purchase this bundle if offered at the same price, if I purchase it at all. Why would you or walli not offer as single plants? It's your choice and your business though. Good Luck!
Why have you been disappointed, Jay? I recall that you thought they would turn out too dark, but that can be easily adjusted individually. Was there anything else?
Shouldn't have been $49 US, I think with the € to US exchange rate back then this should have been more like $39 US, but anyway... we don't want our customers to be unhappy customers. Walli and I would like to understand what your disappointment was about, so that we can address it. The images we rendered for demo purposed turned out fine.
Thanks,
Frank
Mainly the needle textures as I said before, and not that I thought they would turn out too dark, they did turn out too dark. They may be fine with front lighting, but not all scene have front lighting.
Lets say I have created a scene and have everything the way I want it, especially lighting. Then decide I want to add some of the firs from walli. In doing so I shouldn't have to change the lighting of the scene because the foliage in the firs are too dense(which I think is the main problem) and textures to dark. Sorry but these trees just don't work for me even after adjusting diffuse color and transparency of the needle textures. As I said before I have really liked most everything else walli has made available with the exception of the fir bundle.
Also as I said before, we shouldn't have to rework something we just purchased (I asked at that time if walli could rework them and give us a free update) and was just blown off. So don't worry about it.
Has anyone else had problems with the "Fir Bundle? Or am I the only picky bastard here? ;)
Hi Jay,
granted the needle textures from the spruce bundle are dark, but they are also dark in reality. I agree that the needle density was the primary cause for letting renders come out dark. However that's more of a problem of lighting in Terragen than of the models themselves. In my renders I had to increase exposure a lot too, but then if I were to take a shot of a real scene like that with a normal camera, depending on the lighting I would also have to increase exposure a lot on the camera.
Anyway, these trees are not exactly easy to work with in Terragen, but if you set the scene up right, they are awesome (if you ask me).
You're not a picky bastard as you put it, more people had difficulties with these models with terragen's lighting.
I hope we can make up for it in the future :)
Also remember that you always have a few days to just request refund for what you don't like.
Best regards,
Frank
Hi,
first of all I am always happy to get input - let it be positive, or negative. One is nice, the other is helpful!
I know that people sometimes say that my needle/leaf stuff is dark - but I am convinced that most other stuff is simply to bright. To bright and over saturated. This is something that you can see veeeeeeeeery often in Vue renders, but of course also every where else.
This has several resons and one of them is textures beeing to bright.
I really want to "fight" against this and therefor did not swim with this trend, but I also can understand that this might break scenes where everything else has been set up and then you bring in the dark magic of Walli ;-)
But there are some other points that add up and simply seem to much for you in this case:
-when many planes with leaf/needle textures have to be traced, this can lead to darkness. That depends on render engine also, but it´s not uncommon
-TG has a "correction" value for bitmaps (Diffuse color is multilpied on top of bitmap). I think it looks through the texture and then chooses a value according to the bitmap. Because there is empty/black around the leaves or needles it seems that TG assumes something much darker then it should. I already change this correction value to something higher.
Also, it never will be possible to offer something that works out of the box for everyone. Each person has its own style and way to setup scenes, lightings and renderings so I never will be able to be everyones darling. And then every scene is different.
Of course I try to make my products as user friendly as possible and I think that I am on the right way. If the stuff is always to dark, you just have to change one parameter for this material and resave the object. When I compare that to the amount of work I usually have to spend to adjust object libraries that I buy from other companies....
Another option would be to brighten up the textures themselves.
Anyways, with the pine pack I already took the brightness discussion into account. I won´t give up the dark arts and magic ;-) But the pines will be brighter. So I am in the course to find the right balance, at least I hope so.
Thank you for your input!
best,
Walli
If I may share my opinion:
I think you should just keep them as is.
Not brighten them beyond the intended level.
It's peanuts to brighten them up in TG or an image-editor (if you want to do it the laborous way).
Just perform an advanced search for "diffuse color texture" or "diffuse colour texture" + my name in the forums and you'll see me recommend this several times before.
Safes you hassle in trying to satisfy everyone's wishes, which is impossible, and everybody can do it themselve now :)
Cheers,
Martin
Just for the record I changed every needle in every tree in the pack and still not what I'm looking for. I have 100 ft pines in my back yard and they aren't all that dense or dark so I know how a F--king pine should look. I'm not as dumb as you might think I am Martin........Guess I'll have to take a picture and it post here. Of all the trees I've used I've never had problems like this.
Martin, have you used the firs in any renders? If so I must have missed it? I'd love to see what you did. So put you money where your mouth is!
They look like pines to me. Yes, they're not as saturated as in your photo but it isn't so hard to balance texture colours in Terragen, Jay.
Even if '1' is too dark in the diffuse colour setting of the leaf shaders, then just type '2', or '3', instead. No need to swear over it.
Just don't buy if you don't like. :-*
Jay, I understand what you are saying: you want the plants to work out of the box and I agree with that. Let us settle on that the spruce needle textures have been too dark and required some tinkering with to be used in unfavourable lightling. And the needle density hasn't made this easier.
I know it might look like picky, but the trees you had issues with were spruces, not pines. The spruce pack was dense and therefore hard to cope with for the renderer, the pines which I posted a preview of here don' have that problem.
regards,
Frank
Quote from: buzzzzz1 on May 19, 2011, 06:43:54 PM
Just for the record I changed every needle in every tree in the pack and still not what I'm looking for. I have 100 ft pines in my back yard and they aren't all that dense or dark so I know how a F--king pine should look. I'm not as dumb as you might think I am Martin........Guess I'll have to take a picture and it post here. Of all the trees I've used I've never had problems like this.
Martin, have you used the firs in any renders? If so I must have missed it? I'd love to see what you did. So put you money where your mouth is!
Easy Jay, easy. I'm simply pointing to an easy way of adjusting them which many many users seem to miss.
I don't mind that you consider that as me thinking you're dumb, which definitely is not the case, but keep it either for yourself or a ease a bit.
I think you should know (me) better ;)
Everybody has their own reference on how things should look. It's a mix of taste and perception.
And Frank is very right about the renderers limitation. We can only mimic realism to a certain extend as the renderer does not provide enough detail and light bounces (I suppose) to really "fill" the dense areas with enviro light. It might be possible with insane settings, but those would likely be very unpractical.
Cheers,
Martin
hi,
if you take a look at the textures and compare them to other textures of my creations, you will see that they simply are not dark at all. And now I think I understand better what you mean, but what you describe is indeed more a problem of the renderer, having problems to spread the light inside of an object.
And thats something that happens with many renderers and thats the reason why I adopted a linear workflow long ago and in the meantime linear workflow is even included in many packages.
Now back to the spruce. As example I attached a rendering of one of the spruce trees, carefull, slightly exagerated ;-)
It´s standard render settings and also standard camera exposure settings.
I loaded the plant and simply set the diffuse color to "2". This takes just some seconds to do and you can see that you get a bright green. You can do the same to Translucency, you even can crank it up to 100 so that the outer parts of the tree start to glow. Those higher values help a bit to spread the light further, but in general there´s not much I can do about that. And thats also not something that only happens on the spruce pack, it happens on every object that has such dense foliage.
Sometimes it can help to use the transluceny texture inside the luminous slot, only with a low value.
But those are settings that for sure will brake most other scenes and so I dont use them.
So if you have your scene ready and only this object is to dark, then you can change the according setting. But I simply can´t offer a setting that works for all people on all scenes. Thats not possible at all.