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General => Image Sharing => Topic started by: Dune on April 10, 2012, 03:33:25 AM

Title: Waterfall once more
Post by: Dune on April 10, 2012, 03:33:25 AM
Iteration 1.
Title: Re: Waterfall once more
Post by: Dune on April 10, 2012, 03:34:13 AM
Detailed view.
Title: Re: Waterfall once more
Post by: Kadri on April 10, 2012, 05:48:20 AM

I like it! Especially the second one Ulco  :)
Title: Re: Waterfall once more
Post by: Henry Blewer on April 10, 2012, 08:56:07 AM
These are really good. I am curious about the top of the falls. Is this an object warped to make the 'bend' from level water to the cataract?
Title: Re: Waterfall once more
Post by: sjefen on April 10, 2012, 09:35:26 AM
Very cool work  ;)
Title: Re: Waterfall once more
Post by: Dune on April 10, 2012, 10:28:49 AM
The water is based on a soft edged and warped circle (get position+add vector for the location, and a smooth step with its inner and outer size). The rivers and lake are based on a simple image map (I used SSS's before, but this was simpler), the rest of the countryside is blended inversely by the image map. The water is put in only in horizontal areas, the foam is just a Y stretched PF on a separate surface shader. The low area foam and mist is blended by a soft SSS around the lake.
Title: Re: Waterfall once more
Post by: nbk2 on April 10, 2012, 10:53:55 AM
Brilliant  :)
Title: Re: Waterfall once more
Post by: Henry Blewer on April 10, 2012, 09:29:14 PM
I'll have to try this. Thanks for the explaination. 8)
Title: Re: Waterfall once more
Post by: TheBadger on April 11, 2012, 02:38:43 AM
LIke image two the best!

Ulco, squint and you can see that river flowing!
Real soon, for real, I hope ; ;D

Title: Re: Waterfall once more
Post by: jamfull on April 11, 2012, 08:14:33 PM
Awesome! I had a go at this recently too. It looks like we had similar ideas. Excellent work Dune!

James
Title: Re: Waterfall once more
Post by: Dune on April 12, 2012, 09:19:01 AM
Another version where the soft circle is displaced down into a crevice.
Title: Re: Waterfall once more
Post by: Seth on April 12, 2012, 10:20:53 AM
SSS ?
Title: Re: Waterfall once more
Post by: Henry Blewer on April 12, 2012, 10:53:58 AM
Really a great job. Have you tried to get the falls to 'bend' around outcrops?
Title: Re: Waterfall once more
Post by: Jo Kariboo on April 12, 2012, 04:08:24 PM
Impressionnant with good result !
Title: Re: Waterfall once more
Post by: Dune on April 13, 2012, 03:15:24 AM
@ Seth:
QuoteThe water is based on a soft edged and warped circle (get position+add vector for the location, and a smooth step with its inner and outer size).
So not an SSS.

These latest are based on a set of image maps, which I found much easier to handle than randomly warped procedural means. Three maps: water, crevice and one to add the mist and foam at the bottom of the falls. One tree and two shrub, of which I forgot to plant one on the planet (or: the elephants are thrashing them around).

Bending around outcrops, mmm.... hard I think, very hard.
Title: Re: Waterfall once more
Post by: Seth on April 13, 2012, 05:52:20 AM
the two last one are not as good, in my eyes, because of the lighting on the left waterfalls. the water doesn't look like water anymore.
Title: Re: Waterfall once more
Post by: Dune on April 14, 2012, 04:05:37 AM
Perhaps because it isn't water. To decrease render time I have used transparent water only on angles under 70 degrees. The falls are just two colors, with a reflective shader (no RT). I can make it water, no problem.
I've got another problem here, which is not really a bug maybe, but tends to one; the lake is reflecting water/foam from the falls that was masked out procedurally. It seems the reflective part of the water shader is reflecting something hidden behind the rock wall which is even 'un-opaque'.

I know shadows are impossible to mask out by transparency, so it seems this has the same underlying structure. I do have an idea to make the reflections invisible, but I have to try that out. So here's a little riddle; how would I go about to do that? 
Title: Re: Waterfall once more
Post by: Seth on April 14, 2012, 04:20:01 AM
Quote from: Dune on April 14, 2012, 04:05:37 AM
Perhaps because it isn't water.

but it is supposed to look like water, so that is not a good excuse ;)
and I see your problem now that you told us about it even if I must admit I didn't notice it before.
Title: Re: Waterfall once more
Post by: Kadri on April 14, 2012, 07:28:08 AM

Ulco , you lowered the ground around the falls. It looks better to me.
You might lower it a little (not much) more perhaps?  Maybe some big rocks in the falls?
Title: Re: Waterfall once more
Post by: Dune on April 14, 2012, 10:24:55 AM
You noticed that correctly, Kadri.  But I have to be careful lowering or the fall will break up (unless I can do something else). Some rocks is no problem.

And you're right of course, Seth. I might do another one with all water, but I have to sort out the reflection first.
Title: Re: Waterfall once more
Post by: Marcos Silveira on April 14, 2012, 05:13:43 PM
I Have to say that:
(http://www.skyscrapercity.com/images/smilies/eek3.gif)(http://www.skyscrapercity.com/images/smilies/eek3.gif)(http://www.skyscrapercity.com/images/smilies/eek3.gif)
Title: Re: Waterfall once more
Post by: choronr on April 15, 2012, 02:36:52 AM
The beginnings of a new trend ...beautiful work Ulco. Would like to see a close up of a cascading waterfall passing down over some strata into a pool.
Title: Re: Waterfall once more
Post by: Dune on April 15, 2012, 02:40:20 AM
Problem solved, but I'll take the water out again for the falls. Have to fake that again (I'm not very patient), but you hardly see any transparency anyway, so I can easily just use some slightly more greenish rock colors. This render took 4.5 hours on an i7, three times as long, just because of the falls being water shader.
The mist is awful now, might take that out altogether, and I decreased the landscape roughness too much. And I need more trees than one, and I need more foam at the falls' plunge ends. Never ending story.....
Title: Re: Waterfall once more
Post by: Hannes on April 15, 2012, 04:25:11 AM
Great!!! But I definitely prefer the previous one! To me it looks way better. I think if you'd desaturate the blueish colour of the falls and make the foam less bright a bit it would look very natural without having to use a water shader. Have you tried checking RT on in the Reflective shader? Maybe this works?!
Another suggestion: if you'd place some localised clouds at the areas where the falls hit the lake to fake some splash and spray it would look more dynamic.
Does it make a difference if you'd check "receive shadows from surfaces" in the mist? I know that increases rendertimes even more...
Title: Re: Waterfall once more
Post by: j meyer on April 15, 2012, 10:48:45 AM
Mind telling us what it was that caused these strange reflctions?
Great approach,keep going,J.
Title: Re: Waterfall once more
Post by: Dune on April 15, 2012, 11:59:53 AM
The reflections were parts outside the falls of the total 'water area' that were masked out by a default shader, but nevertheless caused reflections. So the masked-out areas are still used for calculating the reflection, apparently. Added a black surface layer, inversely blended by the river mask and it's solved.

I think (I know) with RT on it would take quite a bit longer as well, and it may not be necessary. I have now reduced the water shader to angles under 70 degrees again and added some 'water colors' to the vertical parts, as well as some Y-stretched white, plus of course a reflective shader (no-RT). A little more white is better I think if you look at photographs of falls (beware of dangerous sites!!!). Sometimes they're all white.
The mist could be a little thicker as well in this version, and the stones turned out a little big. And they need a little (painted) foam in their wake.

I've thought of using the shadow from surface layer, and I think it would be very nice, especially if I hang some very low density mist all over the lake. maybe I'll try it.
Title: Re: Waterfall once more
Post by: Oshyan on April 16, 2012, 12:11:47 AM
It's looking nice, but I would suggest even more white and, if possible, increase it the further you go down. Most waterfalls of this size/height should be pretty foamy by the bottom, if not before.

- Oshyan
Title: Re: Waterfall once more
Post by: jamfull on April 16, 2012, 03:21:57 AM
Loving this latest one. Great color and lighting.

James
Title: Re: Waterfall once more
Post by: Dune on April 16, 2012, 03:38:14 AM
@ Oshyan; I already intended to do that (more white), but the suggestion of increasing the white to the bottom is a good one. I might increase the displacement as well, perhaps.
Title: Re: Waterfall once more
Post by: j meyer on April 16, 2012, 12:35:37 PM
Ha,and i thought you had found a "real" solution,not just a workaround,sniff :( ;).
Anyway,thanks for the answer.
Title: Re: Waterfall once more
Post by: Dune on April 17, 2012, 02:37:36 AM
Sorry, Jan, it's just a patch but it works. Maybe pulling it through 2 default shaders will tell the *^# not to send out light to reflective surfaces  ;) , but I doubt it. Maybe Matt will some day implement real gray scale transparency and set this straight as well.

Three more versions, of which the second one is really ugly, but I'll post it anyway.
Title: Re: Waterfall once more
Post by: Dune on April 17, 2012, 02:38:34 AM
And nr. 3. where the far reflections are a bit overdone.
Title: Re: Waterfall once more
Post by: Oshyan on April 17, 2012, 02:59:08 AM
The first of the latest batch is very good, the added whiteness helps. The last one has a lovely foreground but yes, overdone reflection.

- Oshyan
Title: Re: Waterfall once more
Post by: Matt on April 17, 2012, 03:48:01 AM
The elephants look like they've fallen out with each other. They are usually a bit more sociable... ;)

I really like the hazy lighting.

Matt
Title: Re: Waterfall once more
Post by: mhaze on April 17, 2012, 05:12:03 AM
"Maybe Matt will some day implement real gray scale transparency"

Please,please,please.
Title: Re: Waterfall once more
Post by: Henry Blewer on April 17, 2012, 06:49:13 PM
Elephants having a spat. lol

I like the hazy light also.
Title: Re: Waterfall once more
Post by: Dune on April 18, 2012, 03:25:28 AM
Yeah, the elephants are behaving too randomly. I'll chase most off, one or a few might be better. Or just one last elephant pondering his life at the cliffs edge.
Title: Re: Waterfall once more
Post by: Henry Blewer on April 18, 2012, 08:06:37 AM
Elephants spend a lot of time touching each other. They tend to lean onto their friends and drape their trunks over each other. It's a lot of work posing things; personally I like the elephants just being in the image. It makes your experiment with waterfalls much cooler.
Title: Re: Waterfall once more
Post by: Dune on May 15, 2012, 02:14:07 AM
Another waterfall from some basic rock. Credits to Darthvader1 for his atmoclip. There's some strange specks of green in the fall that I need to sort. Probably a combination of transparency (water) and reflectivity.
Title: Re: Waterfall once more
Post by: Dune on May 15, 2012, 09:35:55 AM
Iteration 2. Off to something else...
Title: Re: Waterfall once more
Post by: Oshyan on May 15, 2012, 06:15:39 PM
Amazing how many different approaches and results you've been able to showcase here. Some of them are really excellent. These latest close-ups are surprisingly good in my view.

- Oshyan
Title: Re: Waterfall once more
Post by: Henry Blewer on May 15, 2012, 08:25:21 PM
Great work Ulco. This would make a great package on NWDA.
Title: Re: Waterfall once more
Post by: TheBadger on May 16, 2012, 01:58:08 AM
Quote from: njeneb on May 15, 2012, 08:25:21 PM
Great work Ulco. This would make a great package on NWDA.

It be better if it came with a tut, so even I could understand it.

Ulco, have you done any experimenting to see if you can get that water moving?
Title: Re: Waterfall once more
Post by: Dune on May 17, 2012, 03:52:28 AM
Not yet, TheBadger. I'm trying some flowing lava first... 200 frames just rendered as a test.
Title: Re: Waterfall once more
Post by: TheBadger on May 17, 2012, 04:28:19 AM
Cant wait to hear about what you get. This is interesting stuff!
Title: Re: Waterfall once more
Post by: Dune on June 12, 2012, 02:46:00 AM
Some other shots of a waterfall, a cloud obviously, blended by a simple shape. The ugly outlet I hastily constructed, so it's not very nice.
Title: Re: Waterfall once more
Post by: jamfull on June 12, 2012, 06:03:12 PM
Cool shots. I like the way the falls have turned out.

James
Title: Re: Waterfall once more
Post by: TheBadger on June 12, 2012, 09:39:26 PM
I like 2 and 3 as concepts. Water in the last two images on the last page looks great.
Title: Re: Waterfall once more
Post by: ares2101 on June 15, 2012, 05:22:38 PM
Those falls look great.  Any chance you could post the settings?  I've been wanting to make a scene with a waterfall but just can't get the cloud to look right.
Title: Re: Waterfall once more
Post by: Dune on June 16, 2012, 03:52:28 AM
Cloud fractal sizes are 1/5/0.2, slightly upped density (0.4), perlin, no warp, stretched along Y (5). Sharpness of clouds 0.5, density 0.2, the rest untouched. Three of those in line, blended by a distribution shader to restrict the height, which in turn is blended by a simple shape (a bit soft) at the bottom of the falls.
Title: Re: Waterfall once more
Post by: Jo Kariboo on June 16, 2012, 11:44:52 AM
The last 2 and 3 are very convincing!
Title: Re: Waterfall once more
Post by: ares2101 on June 16, 2012, 05:33:03 PM
Quote from: Dune on June 16, 2012, 03:52:28 AM
Cloud fractal sizes are 1/5/0.2, slightly upped density (0.4), perlin, no warp, stretched along Y (5). Sharpness of clouds 0.5, density 0.2, the rest untouched. Three of those in line, blended by a distribution shader to restrict the height, which in turn is blended by a simple shape (a bit soft) at the bottom of the falls.

I think I'm putting this together wrong, it's not looking anything like your pics.  TGC file perhaps? 
Title: Re: Waterfall once more
Post by: Dune on June 17, 2012, 02:40:03 AM
I'll tell you a little secret, but you have to pull it off from that information: make a second planet of 10000m diameter, with clouds of 20 m thick at 10 meters high, place it at 0/0/10000. Uncheck displacement in the internal PF as soon as you can. Then put the mentioned simple shape on the main planet in the cloud area of the second planet and use it as a blender for a distribution shader for restricted height. Use the latter as a blender for the cloud fractals in the second planet and you're there. You can use the terrain in the second planet or uncheck it if you only want the cloud.