Hi,
Week 2 into learning Terragen 2........................
I just "completed" a 72 hour render where the "stop" tab in the render window never changed to "Save".
I tried all that I could think of to save it but TG2 crashed before I could.
There is no record of it in the temp folder.
Is there ANY way to recover this render [my first decent render in TG2 - following Ryan Archer's "Golden Forest" tutorial]?
If not [Waaaaahhhhhhh!!!!!!!]; what can I do to prevent this happening again?
I also live in an area where power outages are relatively common; I have 2 UPS units but they only run for 15 - 20 minutes belore all power is drained; so this is also an issue.
I have thought of rendering large images in 4 - 8 pieces and putting them back together in Photoshop, but I read somewhere that some render settings may create uneven exposures between some of the pieces..............
Any relevant information on any or all of the above would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers
Erwin :(
In the temp folder you mean this (under Windows)?:
C:\Users\[USERNAME]\AppData\Local\Temp\Planetside Software\Terragen 2
For me, all unsaved, but finished (or interrupted) render is there (with alpha). If render couldn't finish: it won't be there.
Terragen 2 / Preferences / File Saving says where to save the sequence / temporary output files (you need the second one from the drop-down list). I cannot see ways to turn this off (do not save temporary files). Select the second one from the list (temporary output files), and click "reveal location". There should the file be (in a folder, maybe one of the last ones).
I hope you can find it,
Rudolfking
That happened to me a year or more ago. Terrible. All I can say is that with the updated version you can run a GI prepass first, save that (you got something then at least ;)), then render in (overlapping) parts (they will have the same lighting), and put them in Photoshop layers. If you make the layer lighten the one underneath it'll blend nicely, or blend them as you're used to.
Hey Rudolph,
Yeah, mine are in the same locale; In the temp folder (under Windows):
C:\Users\[USERNAME]\AppData\Local\Temp\Planetside Software\Terragen 2
It contains all of my completed test renders, but not the completed, full-sized render.
QuoteFor me, all unsaved, but finished (or interrupted) render is there (with alpha). If render couldn't finish: it won't be there.
Terragen 2 / Preferences / File Saving says where to save the sequence / temporary output files (you need the second one from the drop-down list). I cannot see ways to turn this off (do not save temporary files). Select the second one from the list (temporary output files), and click "reveal location". There should the file be (in a folder, maybe one of the last ones).
As you can see from the screencap, the "reveal location" is greyed out.
This may be due to the fact that I didn't have the "Always save project files incrementally" box checked [I checked it just before I took this screencap].
It looks like it's gone...............
Perhaps an admin member can confirm this presumption?..................
I've just ordered a 32 GB kit for my graphics PC [it's currently only 8 GB]; hopefully that'll speed things up a bit [that way, at least, I won't have to sacrifice 3 days away from my graphics PC for nothing - other than to see I had a beautiful render on the way; just as good, or better than anything I have created thus far with Vue after 2 years of use]..........
It looks like we have just gotten another response to this thread; let's check it............
Cheers
Erwin
Dune,
How do you run a GI prepass first and then save it?
I presume that the prepass you refer to is the one which gives you a vague outline of the image with white dots on a black screen?
The render settings that I used were the same as the ones suggested by Ryan [Archer]:
• Increased the cloud/fog quality to 2
• Increased atmosphere samples to 84
• Changed the render size to 1600 x 1000 [I increased this to 6400 x 4000]
• Changed Detail to 0.9
• Changed AA to 7
• Changed GI Relative Detail to 2
• Changed GI Sample Quality to 4
• Checked Supersample Prepass
Given the increased image size setting that I put in, I may not need to use a Supersample Prepass [which I assume does exactly what it says, as the prepass took over a day.....].
Some may wonder as to why I would render the image so big; I normally downsample [in Vue, the default res is 72 dpi which I rarely bother to change]; but it may be time to re-evaluate this habit.
What is the default resolution for TG2?
I seem to be blind as I can't find the setting in the render dialogue box anywhere............
Erwin
Hi,
Going into the preferences is not the primary way to find where the temporary output files are. You should use "Explore Temporary Files" in the File menu.
The Customise Default Paths settings in the preferences are only aimed at customising the places files get saved. In v2.3 the "Reveal Location" button is only enabled when the item chosen in the popup has been customised. In v2.4 the "Reveal Location" button is always active.
Regards,
Jo
Poop!
I had already tried the "Explore Temporary Files" route with no luck.
Looks like I'll have to render it again....
I just downloaded the 2.4 update so perhaps things will work better this time round................
Cheers and thanks for the help, Rudolph, Dune and Jo..........
Erwin
In render tab there is GI settings. Click write GI file there, give it a location, then render. It makes the 'dotted pass' only then stops. Then check read from GI cache file ( your .gic) and render in crops. It then starts to render without doing the prepass.
From what I understand you may even run the prepass at lower resolution than the final render, thus saving (a little) time.
Adding more RAM is unlikely to affect performance (rendering speed) unless you have been using up all your available memory (with 8GB it's possible but not especially likely). It will however allow you to make much more complex scenes and render at higher resolutions.
Render times will be rather long for higher resolutions, and your detail settings are also fairly high, particularly main detail at 9. I think you would do just fine with 0.75 or even 0.6, especially with the type of scene (fairly dark) that that tutorial produces. Your plant quality, which probably dominates scene detail, will be based on your antialiasing settings (unless for some reason you disabled raytracing of objects), so the main detail is only affecting terrain quality (which you can't see very well, presumably) and GI. 0.9 is probably a waste in this case, if not many others (I seldom go above 0.75 myself).
Supersample Prepass will add some to your render time, but not (in my experience) tremendously. It is generally a good option, though not strictly necessary. I tend to leave it on and adjust other settings instead to conserve render time as needed.
DPI actually has nothing to do with image resolution or detail. It only has relevance when printing, generally speaking. Changing the DPI of your image should not change how it is rendered or displayed. This is why TG does not give any control over DPI settings. DPI is merely a number encoded in meta data for an image. If it's not filled in, many imaging programs will just assume 72dpi as a default. So TG images quite possibly show up that way. In any case the absolute rendered resolution (e.g. 1600x1200) is all you need to worry about when setting TG render resolution. If you want to know how big it will print, divide it by your intended print DPI (generally 300) to get a number in inches.
- Oshyan
Thanks for all that; Dune/Oshyan.
Well, I have rendered the scene again - I only disabled Supersample Prepass [I started this render before your feedback/s], I also updated to version 2.4 and the render took 83 instead of the previous 72 hours [go figure]..........
Now I have the same issue; the counter has stopped [staying on 82:59:02] but the "Stop" button is not changing to the "Save" button and my cursor has changed to the hourglass timer.
The last time when I tried to save the render [by clicking on the "Stop" button; TG2 crashed.
Any suggestions as to what to do now?
I kind of want this render saved but I also want to get on with my learning of TG2 [of which precious little is occurring].
I await the wisdom.................... [aka.............help!.............please.....;-)]
Erwin
Hi Erwin,
How long are you waiting after the render appears to have finished?
Regards,
Jo
Hi Erwin,
Just to add that 6400 x 4000 is much larger than the average. That's not to say TG2 can't handle it, but if you're looking to get on with learning TG2 then I would suggest rendering it smaller. Several days for a render is pretty extreme. You can always save the project and render the image out at a size suitable for printing, which is what I assume you're doing, at a later stage.
Regards,
Jo
Hi Jo,
It's been at least 3 hours since the counter stopped [which is pretty much the same as what happened last time].
I always render my final out at a high image size; that way I can keep my options open [downsample, crop a particular area of interest for use in another image, etc].
I see your point, however, but I also want to solve this issue as I should be able to render an image at this size and have the render complete.
From previous [smaller] renders; I know that there is a bit of a delay between the counter stopping and hearing "the beep" to tell me the render is complete. The time with a render this size, however, seems excessive.
Is there anything I can do to save this render?
Hi Erwin,
Could you send me the project file please? You can email it to me at:
jomeder@planetside.co.uk
I'm not sure what I'll be able to do with it, I can't have my machine tied up rendering for that long, but I'll have a look. I can't say whether 3 hours or more (about 4% of the render time) for the render to complete is typical or not for a render of that size. It might be if you've run out of RAM. Does it sound like your hard drive is being used a lot at the end of the render?
There is nothing you can do to save the image until the image has finished rendering. TG2 is still doing stuff between the time the timer stops and the render actually completes.
I do think if you're planning on rendering all your final images at this sort of size you're going to be doing a lot of waiting. It's up to you whether it's worth it or not of course. It might be more efficient to render a crop of the image if you want that, for example. If you want to archive a project for later rendering without worrying about whether you've deleted object files etc. you can use the Project Gathering in v2.4 to collect the project file and all its assets together in one place.
Regards,
Jo
As the image is still rendering, I can't check which fern I used [I used a fern instead of grass for the forest floor, as in Ryan's tutorial as I figured I could use the same scene in a piece of palaeoart - there was no grass during most of the age of dinosaurs-]; but I can tell you I used all of the pine tree models in Walli's plant Pack 01, as well as one of the ferns............
So all I need to do is attach the tgd - which I have done below.
Next project, I will definitely compile all of the project assets together before doing my final render..........
Thanks.
Erwin
Hi Erwin,
Thanks for that. I tried rendering it. I suspect your problems are down to running out of RAM. When that happens the computer starts to use virtual memory which can be much, much slower. I rendered it using the Full Render settings. When the image was about half way through it was using 7.25 GB of memory. I suspect if I'd left it to continue it would have gone over 8 GB. I'm positive that would have happened if rendered with the settings you mentioned before, such as a detail of 0.9 and AA of 7. You may find things improve when you have more RAM.
Using the settings in the file you attached the render was about half finished in 3 hours and 20 minutes (I have 2.26 GHz dual quad core Xeon, 16 cores). It's quite a simple scene and I think probably the problems you are having are down to settings which were too high and/or not enough RAM to handle those settings.
It should look good when it's done at least!
Regards,
Jo
I had a look at the file as well, and it didn't look very heavy at all. The one thing that struck me is your use of the surface shader for the distribution of trees. You're better off using a distribution shader and use the fractal as its blending input instead of the breakup of the surface shader. You'll have better control.
Jo,
I understand what you are saying; although I won't be able to get my RAM until next week [one of the problems of living "in the sticks".........].
I am amazed that your render went so much faster using the same settings.
My system: Intel Core i7 2.8GHz, 16 core, 8GB RAM - so I think my system is on par with yours [except for the RAM; which will be 32GB next week]................
Dune,
I got lost after, "The one thing that struck me is your use of the surface shader for the distribution of trees. You're better off using a distribution shader and use the fractal as its blending input instead of the breakup of the surface shader. You'll have better control."
So, yeah, I really am very new to TG2.
The setup is totally as per Ryan Archer's "The making of Golden Forest" tutorial.................
I would dearly love to learn all about how to distribute populations, textures, etc [it was also one of the issues I had with Vue - although TG2 looks to have far more/varied control]; but, as we all know - we need lots and lots more tutorials..........
Actually, on that topic; I understand that by the nature of the program, TG2 is difficult to write a user manual for.
However, one thing that I believe would be able to address that a bit is the creation of "Making of" tutorials.
I think it's a great way to learn. Rather than having page after page of boring guidelines; tutorials that guide the user through the creation of an image would not only instruct but also inspire................
The making of "Golden Forest" is the only one of that type of tutorial I have been able to find for TG2 [there's a bit out there for Terragen Classic, but it's a different 'animal'.......].
Anyway, any further guidance with respect to distribution of a population would be much appreciated [I'm sure that there are other tutorials spread throughout the forums, so links would be great. I am going through the forums but there is a lot there......].
Thanks
Erwin
Just one other thought:
I know there is a copy of all completed renders in the temp folder, in App Data; but where would the "in progress" render be filed - before it is complete?
I mean, the entire render [6400px x 4000px] would be about 100 MB; surly that can't all be held on the clipboard [or similar]?
Any ideas; or am I just grasping at straws?............
Erwin..the way I control pops is I initially make a Surface shader with a Distribution shader as its Blend shader.
Click the plus sign at the Blend by shader slot then, Create new shader>Colour shader>Distribution shader
I then click enable test colour and tweak till the blue is everywhere I want my pop to appear.
From there it's simply a matter of adjusting tree (obj) density and tree (obj) size till you have your scene in scale.
So populate the scene but disable the Surface layer via it's check box unless you also wish to put a ground texture
everywhere there is trees (obj)s
In your population obviously you simply go to the Use density shader>Assign shader>Distribution shader from the list that appears, to assign the Distribution shader you made in the Surface shader to the population.
Did this help...hope so.....
Hi Bobby,
I'll have to add that to my list of things to try.................
I'm currently not at the stage where I can just read some instructions and think to myself, "yeah, OK, I get that........right, ah, yes - that makes sense.........etc".
I'm still at the, "huh?" stage - and then have to give myself an hour or two to play around............
Thanks for the tip.
I will let you know how I go............
Now it's time for me to stop this render again [sob] and retry it when I have more RAM [I may also change the render settings as recommended by Jo and see what happens overnight............]
Cheers
Erwin
I made you a quick setup.
Quote from: Dune on April 24, 2012, 02:55:04 AM
I made you a quick setup.
heh heh heh...then I won't send mine to keep confusion at a minimum...yer fast man
Thanks all!
I have been coming back to this post every time I get notified of a new post and still miss some people's reply [I missed Dune's response from April 19th - sorry about that; useful info to try out too............].
I am now rendering in 4 parts and have dropped some of the render settings [I was, after all, only going by Ryan Archer's settings..... I'm doing this as a hobby; Ryan as a living; his computer is probably faster than mine and probably wouldn't have this issue. I'm learning anyway, and that is what matters............ ;)].
I'll see how that goes.
I also have a few more things to try out [thanks, Dune & Bobby 8)].
Thanks again for all your efforts.
This forum is THE BEST!!!..................
Cheers
Erwin
PS. I'll post again when I have completed this render...................
Just to note, in-progress renders are held in RAM, they're one of the many aspects of rendering that use up your system memory. It's only once the render is complete that it's written to disk. So an in-progress render could not be found in the temp folder, unless you cancelled it, at which point the render is considered "completed "and written to disk in the temp folder.
- Oshyan
Quote from: Oshyan on April 24, 2012, 11:53:59 AM
Just to note, in-progress renders are held in RAM, they're one of the many aspects of rendering that use up your system memory. It's only once the render is complete that it's written to disk. So an in-progress render could not be found in the temp folder, unless you cancelled it, at which point the render is considered "completed "and written to disk in the temp folder.
- Oshyan
Whew, thought I was going to have to say,"I think the rendering happens in RAM and only saves on legal termination,
cancelling or finishing"good thing I'm slow on the uptake or I'd look like
I actually understand this lovely program....
Thanks, Oshyan.
I had always wondered about that [with TG2 as well as any other 3D app].
Makes sense how having more RAM allows for more complex scenes.
Oh how did we manage before 64-bit OS'?
The PC I use for 'everyday' stuff [emails, forums, net surfing, budget, etc] is only 32-bit and has 4GB RAM [although the max XP can recognise is 3.5 GB] and it is all I had up until just on 2 years ago.
About the only graphics stuff I can do on this machine [yeah, I'm on it now, obviously......] is making some DVD disc art for all the TV series, etc that I download [shhh.......].
Everything else, I use my graphics 'rig'..........
Anyway, I'm waffling again............
Cheers
Erwin