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General => Image Sharing => Topic started by: nvseal on April 30, 2007, 10:21:26 PM

Title: WIP: Procedural clouds from space
Post by: nvseal on April 30, 2007, 10:21:26 PM
As the title says, this is still a work in progress -- more of a test really. I'm just trying to make realistic cloud formations without using an image map.
This is a quick low quality render, just to see how things are coming together. I will be rendering a larger, higher quality version over night. So thoughts, suggestions?
Title: Re: WIP: Procedural clouds from space
Post by: Oshyan on April 30, 2007, 10:33:08 PM
That's already looking pretty good. You've achieved the scattered "popcorn" formations of what I presume in space photos are big patchy cumulus formations. I always found that tough. The bigger "overcast clouds" and stratus, etc. formations always seemed easier, but getting the patchy look and appropriate distortion is hard. I'm looking forward to the higher quality version - you won't *really* be able to tell if the smaller clouds are just noise, or properly sized and patchy until then. But very promising...

- Oshyan
Title: Re: WIP: Procedural clouds from space
Post by: Sethren on May 01, 2007, 12:53:15 AM
I think that is the first time i have ever seen the known altocumulus types (Dotty Clouds). The stratus and cumulus mix looks good as well from that perspective. Good job.     ;D

If you can blend some tall billowy cumulonimbus in with the larger patches and scatter just a tiny bit of feathery cirrus here and there.   ;D

It looks like you have the global jet streams down fairly well.     :)
Title: Re: WIP: Procedural clouds from space
Post by: nvseal on May 01, 2007, 08:21:59 AM
Here is the larger version. I zoomed the camera out so I think I might have to zoom back in for the next render. Now I need to start tweaking.
Title: Re: WIP: Procedural clouds from space
Post by: old_blaggard on May 01, 2007, 09:12:54 AM
Nice job!  Those are some of the most realistic planetare cloud formations I've seen come out of the Tech Preview.  If there's any way to add more warp to get more of a Coriolis effect in the larger groups of clouds, I think that would be great.
Title: Re: WIP: Procedural clouds from space
Post by: ProjectX on May 01, 2007, 10:19:23 AM
great work!

Hmmm... perhaps warping based on feature scale.

That would be a great feature to have in the final version *hint hint*
Title: Re: WIP: Procedural clouds from space
Post by: rcallicotte on May 01, 2007, 10:29:58 AM
This is very good.  Let us know how you're doing this, if you have time.
Title: Re: WIP: Procedural clouds from space
Post by: nvseal on May 01, 2007, 10:52:42 AM
Quote from: calico on May 01, 2007, 10:29:58 AM
Let us know how you're doing this, if you have time.
The cloud density shader is plugged into the child layer node of a surface layer (I guess a distribution shader would do the same thing) which is then plugged into the actual cloud layer. To restrict the clouds, I enlarge the surface layer's fractal scale and simply increase or decrease coverage.
Title: Re: WIP: Procedural clouds from space
Post by: Oshyan on May 01, 2007, 01:58:04 PM
The higher detail version looks pretty good. Some more size variation in the scattered smaller clouds would be good. Also the overall cloud cover looks low in general, especially for a planet with that much water. But you're definitely on the right track.

- Oshyan
Title: Re: WIP: Procedural clouds from space
Post by: nvseal on May 01, 2007, 09:16:33 PM
Playing with the camera angles earlier I came up with these two images. Both are at low quality settings so I will be doing some higher quality renders later; but I thought I would just share these. Both images come from my version 2 cloud test file.  :)
Title: Re: WIP: Procedural clouds from space
Post by: old_blaggard on May 01, 2007, 10:53:01 PM
Looking pretty good!  Although I'm not a big fan of lense flare, which detracts from the second image a bit in my opinion ;).
Title: Re: WIP: Procedural clouds from space
Post by: moodflow on May 01, 2007, 11:04:31 PM
Nice work!

This is a very hard thing to accomplish and it seems you are nearly there.  It even has that cloud thickness look on the sunsets, something I have yet to see any artist really pull off unless they are a pro.  Any tips on what you are doing?
Title: Re: WIP: Procedural clouds from space
Post by: nvseal on May 01, 2007, 11:16:06 PM
Quote from: old_blaggard on May 01, 2007, 10:53:01 PM
Although I'm not a big fan of lense flare, which detracts from the second image a bit in my opinion ;).
Yes, I was hesitant to add it. I didn't really want to but it's either that or the default blank white "dot" sun, which I can't stand. I think I'll just remove the sun next time like in the first image.

@ Moodflow:  Tips? don't have any right now. The cloud height is 5000m in that render, higher sun glow values helps (I think, I haven't tested that). I will post the tgd when I'm done. (or at least when I can't get anything better out of it ;))
Title: Re: WIP: Procedural clouds from space
Post by: rcallicotte on May 02, 2007, 11:09:10 AM
nvseal, you do know you can crank up the height of your atmosphere to show a thicker atmosphere, right?
Title: Re: WIP: Procedural clouds from space
Post by: nvseal on May 02, 2007, 11:10:25 AM
Quote from: calico on May 02, 2007, 11:09:10 AM
nvseal, you do know you can crank up the height of your atmosphere to show a thicker atmosphere, right?
Yes, I know. ;D What I meant was the cloud depth was 5000 m. Sorry, I should have been clearer.

Edit: Hey, would anyone with deep be willing to render a 1024 * 768 version of my last render (pro_cloud_test_5.jpg) sometime.
Title: Re: WIP: Procedural clouds from space
Post by: Oshyan on May 02, 2007, 01:02:32 PM
I'd be glad to render it at higher resolution. My machine is sitting idle at home right now. ;)

- Oshyan
Title: Re: WIP: Procedural clouds from space
Post by: nvseal on May 02, 2007, 03:57:08 PM
Thanks Oshyan. Here are the files. Everything should be ready to go (feel free to turn the GI down to 2  ;)). If you have any questions just PM me.
Title: Re: WIP: Procedural clouds from space
Post by: old_blaggard on May 02, 2007, 05:06:25 PM
Thanks for sharing this :).
Title: Re: WIP: Procedural clouds from space
Post by: Oshyan on May 02, 2007, 05:31:27 PM
I'm rendering it now, largely as you sent it, although the moon image wasn't attached (I presume it's not needed). I don't usually recommend GI for space scenes and GI Surface Details is definitely not necessary, but I left 'em on just for kicks and will do multiple renders (at 800x600) to show the differences for later reference. I'll do the final at 1600x1200 for you.

- Oshyan
Title: Re: WIP: Procedural clouds from space
Post by: nvseal on May 03, 2007, 12:29:20 AM
Thanks Oshyan, yeah, I forgot to turn GI surface details off. And the moon file isn't need so you can just delete. I should have cleaned it up a bit.  ::)
Title: Re: WIP: Procedural clouds from space
Post by: nvseal on May 06, 2007, 10:07:28 PM
I hope that's not still rendering Oshyan.  :D
Title: Re: WIP: Procedural clouds from space
Post by: Will on May 08, 2007, 07:04:16 PM
Really intresting man, I can't wait to see where this goes.

Regards,

Will
Title: Re: WIP: Procedural clouds from space
Post by: Oshyan on May 09, 2007, 12:58:54 AM
Sorry about the delay. I went away for the weekend. ;D

Turns out the file really doesn't like rendering at higher resolutions - it seems to run into some kind of odd memory limitation. It doesn't appear to be scaling linearly in terms of render time - by far. We're looking at the file as a test case for some fixes and optimizations at any rate.

I'll be reattemping it now (after cancelling the previous try still rendering at 50 hours) at a lower resolution and with lower GI. We'll see how it goes...

- Oshyan
Title: Re: WIP: Procedural clouds from space
Post by: nvseal on May 09, 2007, 08:59:09 AM
50 hours! Hmm, that's quite strange indeed. I hope it can get fixed. I just tried to render a newer version of the file last night and my computer crashed.  ??? That has happened before with other files (I'm working on a laptop so I think it is more hardware issues on my end) so I'm going to try to re-render it tonight. But strange nonetheless.
Title: Re: WIP: Procedural clouds from space
Post by: Oshyan on May 09, 2007, 12:52:46 PM
Got the 1024x768 version done and it looks fine. Only took 7 hours and 43 minutes, so clearly there's a huge jump when you move up to 1600x1200. I'll post the finished render later today.

- Oshyan
Title: Re: WIP: Procedural clouds from space
Post by: Will on May 09, 2007, 01:15:47 PM
cool can't wait. Its great to see more and more people doing Orbital renders, it makes me feel less lonely.


Regards,

Will
Title: Re: WIP: Procedural clouds from space
Post by: ProjectX on May 09, 2007, 02:46:14 PM
ha ha, I tried em, but couldn't get anywhere near to matching your images Will. You are truly a master at them.
Title: Re: WIP: Procedural clouds from space
Post by: nvseal on May 09, 2007, 04:10:26 PM
I'll be looking forward to that Oshayn. In the mean time, I've done some more work on the file. While it is not done, I do think I have made some progress. What I am mainly working on right now is trying to balance the larger patches of clouds with the smaller patches while maintaining a look of depth without increasing the cloud depth to the extremes. I also want to maintain the wispy, wind affect of the cloud formations such as in this image so that they seem more logical.

Try to ignore the banding.  ::)
Title: Re: WIP: Procedural clouds from space
Post by: Will on May 09, 2007, 04:25:03 PM
Just keeps getting better :)

By the way thanks ProjectX but I'm not a master, they are just the only things I'm good at in Terragen. Most of my landscapes are pretty sad.

Regards,

Will
Title: Re: WIP: Procedural clouds from space
Post by: Oshyan on May 09, 2007, 04:38:35 PM
Looks good nvseal, although I'm honestly not sure it's an improvement over previous images. Most notably I see less of the cool scattered clouds.

Also in regards to cloud height, remember that a large cumulus storm cloud can be in excess of 12,000 meters tall. So realistically some layers should have that level of depth to them, though this should be scattered as it's true most clouds are not that tall.

- Oshyan
Title: Re: WIP: Procedural clouds from space
Post by: nvseal on May 09, 2007, 05:37:29 PM
Yes, there isn't a whole lot of progress -- but there is some  ;). I see it partly because I know where it came from to get to this point. This is finals week, so I haven't had a whole lot of time to do any serious improvements. I'm working on some storm clouds now.
Title: Re: WIP: Procedural clouds from space
Post by: Will on May 09, 2007, 08:19:13 PM
Hey Oshyan will the SDK be capable of creating plug-ins that can automate this process?

Regards,

Will
Title: Re: WIP: Procedural clouds from space
Post by: Oshyan on May 09, 2007, 09:07:25 PM
Automate what process?

- Oshyan
Title: Re: WIP: Procedural clouds from space
Post by: Oshyan on May 09, 2007, 09:18:22 PM
Alright, here's the resulting render. Settings only slightly changed and rendered at 1024x768. Let me know if you want me to render another. :)

[attachthumb=1]

- Oshyan
Title: Re: WIP: Procedural clouds from space
Post by: sjefen on May 09, 2007, 10:24:33 PM
This is realy nice. I love it :P
The only thing I doun't like is the sun. But that is not your fault.
Anyways.... Great job on this one and super cool of you Oshyan for rendering it at higher resolution.
Title: Re: WIP: Procedural clouds from space
Post by: old_blaggard on May 09, 2007, 10:37:23 PM
That does look pretty good.  It's a pity that the planetary banding issue is so obvious.
Title: Re: WIP: Procedural clouds from space
Post by: Oshyan on May 09, 2007, 11:16:35 PM
Yes, and sadly I've forgotten the workaround for the banding.  :P

- Oshyan
Title: Re: WIP: Procedural clouds from space
Post by: nvseal on May 09, 2007, 11:19:22 PM
Thanks Oshyan, I might have to take you up for another sometime.  ;) Maybe when I'm done (If I'm ever done).
@ old_blaggard: Yeah, the banding is a pretty big issue. It's because of the Altocumulus layer. I'll have to try to find a way to fix that later. Has anyone else foud a fix for this before (without deleting the layer that is)?
Title: Re: WIP: Procedural clouds from space
Post by: Will on May 10, 2007, 05:13:12 AM
Nice, I think I saw a fix in a thread a while back but I'm not sure. I'll research a little. As for what I meant about automating I was talking about some one being able to create a shader or somthing the just haves you click generate or somthing and it creates a simular effect to what nvseal is doing but a lot faster.

Regards,

Will
Title: Re: WIP: Procedural clouds from space
Post by: Oshyan on May 10, 2007, 01:03:26 PM
We intend to provide a "macro" system that will allow people like nvseal to create packaged versions of their networks with simplified controls so that people can more easily control specified parameters for a particular effect. I think that might be a solution to your question. If you are referring specifically to a planetary cloud shader that we might put together, this is also a possibility, it might just ship as a preset.

- Oshyan
Title: Re: WIP: Procedural clouds from space
Post by: Will on May 10, 2007, 02:50:37 PM
That awnsers my question thanks :)

regards,

Will
Title: Re: WIP: Procedural clouds from space
Post by: nvseal on May 10, 2007, 04:14:05 PM
Here is a little update. I've added some smaller clouds (although I haven't worked out a good popcorn look yet) in the first one. In the second, I've added some storm like clouds; but they still need some distribution work -- among other things. The hard part is not so much trying to make clouds as it is to make them look logical in their distribution relative to one another.  :P
Note: the first image is quality setting 1 while the second is 0.5.
Title: Re: WIP: Procedural clouds from space
Post by: nvseal on May 10, 2007, 04:15:12 PM
Here is the second image.

Update: Here is the second image at quality 1.
Title: Re: WIP: Procedural clouds from space
Post by: rcallicotte on May 10, 2007, 07:27:51 PM
Love this second image.  Unbelievably realistic.  Almost want to ask you if you really used TG2.   :P
Title: Re: WIP: Procedural clouds from space
Post by: old_blaggard on May 10, 2007, 08:13:34 PM
Calico's right - it does look spectacular.
Title: Re: WIP: Procedural clouds from space
Post by: mrwho on May 11, 2007, 03:48:34 AM
fantastic! care to share the updated TGD?????
Title: Re: WIP: Procedural clouds from space
Post by: nvseal on May 11, 2007, 09:01:22 AM
Thank you calico and old_baggard. I will be sharing the tgd but not yet (maybe later today). Here is a shot of the entire planet. As you can see, there are some strange fractal  issues in some areas but not to any great extent.
Title: Re: WIP: Procedural clouds from space
Post by: nvseal on May 12, 2007, 07:31:27 PM
Edit: Moved to file sharing forum. http://forums.planetside.co.uk/index.php?topic=1511.0
Title: Re: WIP: Procedural clouds from space
Post by: sjefen on May 12, 2007, 07:57:48 PM
It's awsome and very nice of you to share it :P
Thanks ;D
Title: Re: WIP: Procedural clouds from space
Post by: Will on May 13, 2007, 09:28:15 AM
I'm going off to play with it right now :) thanks

Regards,

Will
Title: Re: WIP: Procedural clouds from space
Post by: nvseal on May 13, 2007, 02:30:16 PM
Here's an image I came up with just playing around (trying to improve the look of the planet itself). I might take what I've learned here to start a new test sometime but I'm done for right now (can anyone say warp shader!  ;)). If anyone makes any improvements please share them because there is still quiet a bit that could be done.
Title: Re: WIP: Procedural clouds from space
Post by: mrwho on May 13, 2007, 02:33:50 PM
simply incredible
Title: Re: WIP: Procedural clouds from space
Post by: rcallicotte on May 13, 2007, 03:40:07 PM
nvseal, incredibly realistic and beatiful 3D.
Title: Re: WIP: Procedural clouds from space
Post by: old_blaggard on May 13, 2007, 03:56:17 PM
Great clouds!  I'm a bit iffy about the water color, but other than that it's great.
Title: Re: WIP: Procedural clouds from space
Post by: nvseal on May 13, 2007, 04:26:15 PM
Quote from: old_blaggard on May 13, 2007, 03:56:17 PM
Great clouds!  I'm a bit iffy about the water color, but other than that it's great.
Yeah, that water color is just a test so I can see how it looks. The distribution is terrible at the moment. :o I'm hoping to restrict it to the shore line.
Title: Re: WIP: Procedural clouds from space
Post by: Sethren on May 13, 2007, 04:37:38 PM
It is getting more interesting every time.   ;D

What you might want to do is research the "Blue Marble" Next Generation imagery so that you can get an overall good idea on true planet colors.

http://veimages.gsfc.nasa.gov/7105/world.topo.bathy.200406.3x5400x2700.jpg

I tend to always use this for my research.

The oceans seem very dark but since there is no atmosphere and reflection to account for it would make sense that the oceans are the color they are.

Title: Re: WIP: Procedural clouds from space
Post by: nvseal on May 13, 2007, 05:23:16 PM
Thanks, I'll look into that.
I may decide to start a new project. After looking up some cloud formations such as in this picture (http://typhoon.wcp.muohio.edu/tropicalvideos/hurricanes03/Isabel.A2003255.1500.500m.jpg), I don't know if I can resist trying to make it better.  :D It really gives an idea of just how far there is left to go.
Title: Re: WIP: Procedural clouds from space
Post by: Will on May 13, 2007, 05:25:11 PM
I have some cloud pic from the plan ride to russia if you want them.

Regards,

Will
Title: Re: WIP: Procedural clouds from space
Post by: nvseal on May 13, 2007, 05:59:06 PM
That would be great.
Title: Re: WIP: Procedural clouds from space
Post by: old_blaggard on May 13, 2007, 06:27:54 PM
That's a really nice picture, nvseal.  Will, if you could set up a little Flickr gallery or something that contains all of the good reference pics you took while in Russia, that would be great.
Title: Re: WIP: Procedural clouds from space
Post by: sjefen on May 13, 2007, 06:53:39 PM
This is realy great :o
The only thing I can think of is that the mountains looks a little flat.
If you could make them a little higher it would be perfect.
Title: Re: WIP: Procedural clouds from space
Post by: nvseal on May 13, 2007, 09:41:39 PM
Well, the thing with the mountains is that they are not real. Everything on the planet surface is just 2d surface shaders to add a background for the clouds.  ;D So I can't make them any higher.  ;)
Title: Re: WIP: Procedural clouds from space
Post by: Will on May 14, 2007, 06:25:46 PM
just throw in a planet shader, they tend to work for things like that.

Regards,

Will
Title: Re: WIP: Procedural clouds from space
Post by: nvseal on May 15, 2007, 12:06:18 PM
I added a new cloud layer for some very small popcorm clouds in close up shots. It took 24 hr. to render though.  :o Try to ignore the overly huge atmosphere that I forgot to change  ::).
Title: Re: WIP: Procedural clouds from space
Post by: nvseal on May 15, 2007, 12:45:47 PM
And a completely new version fo the procedural cloud file I've been working on.  ;) I don't know what's up with the black spots on the back of the planet; I'll have to look into those.
Title: Re: WIP: Procedural clouds from space
Post by: old_blaggard on May 15, 2007, 01:25:35 PM
Wow!  That second test is really stunning!  You've come a really long way with this - could you share this new .tgd file?
Title: Re: WIP: Procedural clouds from space
Post by: nvseal on May 15, 2007, 05:37:39 PM
Sure, here it is. Just so you're warned, I found some banding issues at higher resolutions and closer camera positions.
Title: Re: WIP: Procedural clouds from space
Post by: old_blaggard on May 15, 2007, 06:12:09 PM
Eh... banding is OK - I'll just wait to use it in a real image until a fix comes out ;).
Title: Re: WIP: Procedural clouds from space
Post by: nvseal on May 15, 2007, 10:28:27 PM
That's what I was thinking as well. I'm afraid this project will not be able to reach its full potential until an update. Oshyan, are these banding issues going to be addressed in the next update?
Title: Re: WIP: Procedural clouds from space
Post by: Oshyan on May 15, 2007, 11:29:38 PM
Not likely in the next update. I recall there was a workaround that wasn't too bad, but I don't remember the details . Anyone?

- Oshyan
Title: Re: WIP: Procedural clouds from space
Post by: nvseal on May 17, 2007, 09:43:58 AM
Another image of the version 2 clouds. This should be my last one for now. Until the banding issues are fixed, this version is really only good for distant shots such as this. And I was playing with planet colors in the planet shader so try to ignore that terrible surfacing. ::)
Title: Re: WIP: Procedural clouds from space
Post by: old_blaggard on May 17, 2007, 11:44:34 AM
Again, very nice clouds.  This is really impressive work overall.