Hello,
Had this idea where we who are interested, each give Oshyan something between 5-20 dollars to keep in trust to pay some of the gurus to write step by step tutorials on some of their best work.
So imagine a bunch of us, say 20-50-100 or more, deposited 5-20 dollars each into a cash pool. Then we select some images from the portfolios of some of the TG2 users websites, or even this forum, and vote for some that we can all agree would be great to see broken down into a step by step. Then whoever is chosen by popular vote, gets paid out of the pool to write a comprehensive tut for that image (And I mean very detailed!)
The payment should be significant, to be fair to the writer, and to inspire more involvement by more gurus. Also the images selected should be of obvious high caliber. And the tut should be as nice as the image.
Planetside could take a cut for hosting, to cover any expenses involved. And there by make the process trust worthy.
the tuts could be sent to participants the same way the Software license numbers are. I'm sure there are even simpler ways. But really I don't care if people who don't pay in see them. As long as I get to, I'll still pay in. In fact, if even after the writer got payed from the pool, was able to make more cash from his own site, or a tut site, I'd be happy for him. I just want to see some tuts of some of the work I have looked at. Nodes are nice, but tuts are best!
There are tons of people who would pay in! you all know there is. I will. I'll give my credit card number to planetside's billing service right now!!! $20 dollars from me guaranteed. The best part is, that the tut will be well received because it was asked for.
The details would be pretty easy to work out, we just need to do it.
We could vote by a thread poll. Or by naming the artist and work in the submission form for the billing service. Only those who pay in should get a vote though.
We can peer pressure the artist to do it ;) But who doesn't want some extra cash right now? And if taking money for the tut seems strange to anyone, just think of it as a prize for being talented!
This will work if we want it to. Can any of you guys support this idea?
Think on it.
How about a kickstarter campaign...?
Just suggesting this as a mechanism whereby the monetisation of this idea might be easily realised.
I guess and I'm afraid, judging the immense response to your in itself interesting idea, Badger, that the idea dies without having been born.....
Neon22,
How does it work?
Dune,
I am now more against the death of unborn ideas than I was before :'(
Check it out here. You've a bit of reading to do and exploring...
http://www.kickstarter.com/help/school/defining_your_project
I think it's a great idea but there's a huge "BUT".
Writing tutorials is hard, very hard.
If it was easy there would be plenty out there already.
It requires that everyone is at the same starting point, has the same base understanding and is able to follow the same set of instructions. Look at the wildly differing results from the (apologies if the title is wrong) "Golden forest at Dawn" tutorial. One especially difficult part of writing any tutorial for terragen is the "Random Seed" that is such an integrated part of so many nodes. By introducing that element to the learning process (ok you could just type in the number suggested by the tutorial author) makes following a linear process very difficult. The random seed will have thrown in a bunch of new data that will throw the rest of the process off kilter.
It also requires that the author has a good writing (or speaking) style, and doesn't go rambling off in obscure directions (did I mention my travels in Argentina ...).
Possibly some VERY simple tutorials could be made but they would be little more that an introduction (a function that this forum and others like it, do very well already).
This is why I was asking earlier about a meta understanding of Terragen LINK (http://www.planetside.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=13776.0). We are still working towards this and as is evident in the recent "Andromeda setting over Umar" thread (http://www.planetside.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=14807.msg144423#msg144423), there's applications and methodologies that even the program authors are unaware off. Effectively Terragen can be looked at as a language, it has some basic grammar, but the final output is down to the individual and their personal understanding.
Richard
Quote from: cyphyr on July 10, 2012, 06:47:50 AM
We are still working towards this and as is evident in the recent "Andromeda setting over Umar" thread (http://www.planetside.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=14807.msg144423#msg144423), there's applications and methodologies that even the program authors are unaware off.
I was unaware? Haha, no. You need to try harder ;)
Matt
I think tutorials should be written in way that someone with zero experience could work with it.
I know its very hard to do this (wrote some equipment doc's for no-brainers) and the tutorials would be long and for some of us boring,
but it would make the lives of many a novice a lot easier.
And you need to test these tutorials, too.
Quote from: Matt
I was unaware? Haha, no. You need to try harder ;)
Hehe, so you knew along and were just holding back! Making us work for it eh?
I think my point about grammar has some weight though.
Cheers
Ricchard
Quote from: cyphyr on July 10, 2012, 06:04:25 PM
Hehe, so you knew along and were just holding back! Making us work for it eh?
I think my point about grammar has some weight though.
Yes, it has a lot of weight. And that is the answer to your question :)
Matt
IMHO this is why the need for tutorials of an undefined nature keeps coming up:
- TG2 is composed of building blocks with a simple grammer. In this way its similar to a language.
- But TG2 is not so much a language but more of a map of Matt's brain.
- As such TG2 is hard for some of us to understand. :P
I'd draw the analogy (but its only that) to an aspect of the difference between Python and Perl (not to start a religous war). It could be said that Perl is a map of Larry Wall's brain rather than a language.
The difference might be expressed as useful idiosyncratic differences, shortcuts, bundled aspects for common use. Perhaps this is less true of later versions of Perl.
What I mean by this is that we have the red nodes - which make up building blocks, and the Blue nodes - which could be said to be more foundational but incomplete (in that you cannot construct all Red nodes from Blue nodes), and special purpose, or supporting, nodes.
These nodes can be used to construct a huge variety of useful terrain renderings whilst also minimising the number of useless renderings. But because they are incomplete, in the manner mentioned, we can't really call them a language. (I do not mean to say that TG2 presents itself as a language.)
But I would propose that this aspect of not being a language is what makes the deep understanding and mastery of the tools difficult.
For example some nodes will give you consistent results all over a planet, whilst others will have their effect relevant around the zero origin. There being no specific node to reproject the behaviour between these two.
There is also a perfectly understandable bias towards Y direction, which makes it conceptually difficult to realise overhangs and such.
IMHO this is why the need for tutorials of an undefined nature keeps coming up.
As well as the basics of how to use the general system, the approach of a Cookbook with many useful recipes, seems to be the best way to show more advanced uses of node structures.
But even this will always hint at the internal structure which is never truly revealed as a side effect of how the nodes are presented.
Please note I am not suggesting anything should be different about TG2. This approach is quite valid IMHO. It means a lower barrier to entry at the initial stages but it does have the effect of a higher barrier to entry for 'advanced' uses. As time goes on we have seen the addition of many blue nodes and the addition and enhancement of many existing nodes to expose hidden aspects that advanced users desire to manipulate directly.
So perhaps in the spirit of offering solutions rather than problems, we could start a breakdown of a useful set of tutorials, define what should be in them, and lead onto a number of recipes for the cookbook showing how to do specific useful advanced aspects. Of these there would be several examples of achieving similar effects but in entirely different ways. The already covered basic aspects of system use could be regarded as done already and not included.
E.g. as a starter
Terrain detail
- Powerfractals and scale
- how scale parameters relate to real world features - rocks on rocks
- using child nodes to add detail
- more control using masks - controlling feature visibility through hierarchy
- controlling feature visibility through surface layers
- etc...
There's probably an existing list in another thread and there is the Wiki.
But maybe we could discuss a framework with headings and what each part would attempt to explain through examples.
Thereby leap into the pool...
Then again The Badger's idea at the top of this thread of voting for a scene breakdown for selected works will work just as well.
Frankly I think the Wiki is *perfect* for an effort of this kind. It's basically built for exactly these situations, where you have a lot of people with different bits of knowledge, no one with the whole of it, and the need to work together to ultimately build the *knowledgebase* that's necessary. You could start easily, even with minimal knowledge, by defining (as Neon has) a general outline of things you think should be known, or that you want to know. You could even start it as a simple "documentation requests" area with each person making lists *in the wiki* of their particular desires. Then you could cross-reference them, find the commonalities, and hopefully narrow the list down to what seems most useful. Those with knowledge can contribute as time and energy allows, in the areas with which they are familiar. Almost everyone figures out something useful about TG while using it, so "those with knowledge" can encompass quite a lot. Even those who don't feel they have original knowledge to contribute can likely be of great use in editing, organizing, and structuring the content that others generate (frankly I think one of the most tedious aspects of documentation is organizing it).
This is not to take away from official documentation efforts, which are ongoing (take a look at the node reference today vs. a couple months ago). But I think a lot of what is being talked about may be beyond what can reasonably be considered the realm of official documentation, going into tutorials on specific techniques in particular. I think the best results will come from both aspects being strong, official docs, and community contributions. I really feel the wiki is an underutilized resource. I hope it doesn't stay that way.
- Oshyan
Hey guys.
Thanks for giving this thread some dignity :)
I agree that writing a tut is a time consuming task, and not an easy one. So I feel strongly that anyone who does it should be paid. One question I have though, is what is a fair price? I was thinking like 500 dollars. I don't know if thats high or low.
Just for conversations sake, lets try this out. I'll pick an image of high quality, and presumably a very (necessarily) complex node network.
For example.
http://www.planetside.co.uk/images/phocagallery/thumbs/phoca_thumb_l_hannes-another%20jungle%20flyover.jpg
By Hannes
I just picked it because its very good, and I presume, has a very complex node network. Also, I just checked the official gallery, and theres lots of new stuff there!
Okay, so what would Hannes need to do to write a tut?
Go back to his project and refresh his mind on it. And than start over, reconstructing every node and why he made his choices in written form. Hopefully with screen captures.
PDF it. Thats it.
If it has the detail that "A Get Started Terragen 2 Tutorial for the Terrified" Than everyone should be able to follow it. And like anything else in life. The more you already know about TG2, the more you'll get from the tut.
If its step by step, than just by following along, most people will increase their understanding of TG2's nature.
So all we need is to agree on say 10 images, than vote on the one that will give the most information in tut form. Wait for it to be written. Pay the artist. BAM! We are all better for it.
If there is enough cash in the pool we can vote for more images.
In addition to the cash, I would point out that anyone who goes through the process of writing a tut, should most likely, come out a stronger TG2 user. Teaching is a proven way to learn. Just throwing that out there.
Really all we need is enough in the pool, and to get the artists to do the tuts for the images. If we get one tut a month for a few months, I would be one happy camper!
@Hannes, if your reading this, sorry to put you on the spot but I had to do it to someone. Great image by the way! How come I never saw it before?
@Oshyan and everyone,
I have found something like 30 tuts in other places on the internet, we should probably try to get them added to the wikki! I can .rar them for you (oshyan) if you think you can back track them?
The problem with all of the tuts I have seen, and with Oshyan's very good suggestion, is that it is all puzzle pieces.
What I mean is that I have only seen one tut that takes a reader from nothing, to a completed, complex project in a step by step fashion. All of the puzzle pieces are GREAT! Don't get me wrong. But we really need to have at least a few start to finish, step by steps, for a project that is of a pro nature. To make all of the puzzle pieces fit together better.
I just started to make use of the wikki, I like it too. And I agree it should become a THE hub, for settled learning, leaving this forum for the "in progress" stuff. If the wikki can host this effort lets just do that!
*@Neon22
I agree with you. But if you write a tut, remember, that some of us are visual learners! We will need lots of images. I think that every effort should be made to make even the most complex ideas in TG2 accessible to everyone. So when you talk about advanced users sharing with advanced users, well thats half the problem. Its easy for you to have a conversation with someone like Oshyan or T-U and lots of others. But its hard for many more of us to follow.
So my question then is, why talk in public?
Don't get me wrong! I'm just saying I don't only want to be impressed with you guys, I want to participate as much as possible, for me. But I often feel shut out NOT because you guys are snobs, NO! But because there has been no path provided for me to advance to an advanced user.
I hope I am saying what I mean?
Badger, if you've found other tutorials that are useful, just link to them in the wiki. Make a list. We can't host other people's content without their consent, and if the tutorial already has a "home" on the Internet, a simple link works well.
The start-to-finish tutorials are one style, but the funny thing about them is I've heard as many people *lamenting* that approach as praising it. What I mean is many people explicitly object to simply reproducing someone else's work as a learning process. They prefer to be given lots of fundamental knowledge, then use their own experiments to build scenes out of those pieces. I personally find value in both approaches, and I think both resources should exist. So I'm not saying your idea is bad, just that you may not get as much weight behind it as you'd like as that style of learning is not for everyone.
Regarding the paid approach, I think it's great if funds can be raised and there are willing authors. We would love to see people in this community being able to earn income from their passion and knowledge. But finding the sweet spot for tutorial writer compensation vs. available community resources may be a challenge. So far few people have committed to any funding, so you're far short of even 1 tutorial at $500 (or even $100), unless you're willing to foot the bill nearly by yourself.
While the piecemeal approach does have its disadvantages, the great thing about it is it does *not* require some huge effort all at once and it's not something that someone necessarily needs to be paid to do. If everyone jumped over to the wiki whenever they had some new tidbit of info, technique, etc. to share, we would already have a growing library and sort of reference, above and beyond the baseline that the official docs are meant to provide, encompassing multiple approaches to similar problems, creative techniques, unusual solutions, etc.
- Oshyan
QuoteBadger, if you've found other tutorials that are useful, just link to them in the wiki. Make a list. We can't host other people's content without their consent, and if the tutorial already has a "home" on the Internet, a simple link works well.
Okay, I will do it! lol, I guess I already should have. I'll try to have it done by the weekend.
I agree with you that some wont want to pay in, that they wont like reproducing others work. But there is already a ton of stuff for them to use the way they like. Almost everything is in the fashion you described. There is almost nothing in the other direction.
Both would be best, if we had just a few more FULL tuts, it would be explosive!
If I could pay for it my self I would. I would hire a few of you to teach me what you know in person! But I cant, this is the best I could come up with.
I will pay in. To get to a hundred dollars we only need 4 other people! Just 4! 20 people is not impossible. We just have to try it!
@ everyone! After all the complaints about a lack of tuts, are you seriously not going to jump on this?! You spent how much on the software? But you won't spend $20 to master it? THATS CRAZY! What are you holding on to the money for anyway? Its not going to be worth the paper its printed on in 5 years anyway! LETS TG ;D
Okay, thats the best motivational speech I can make. Hope it works.
If you really want to try the funded approach, what I would suggest is to first think about who you think would be the best authors of such tutorials here. Come up with a list of 5 or 6 people, 10 at the most, and then contact them to see if there's interest. Hopefully you get a few people who are interested in at least experimenting with it. Then you discuss what they want for their time and come up with a total cost that equals 1 tutorial written by each of them, at a value for time they can hopefully all eventually agree on. Then finally you can post the idea on Kickstarter with a specific dollar amount you're trying to raise. Promote the heck out of it, beg, plead, cajole, and hopefully you can get it funded. The beauty of Kickstarter is if the project doesn't make its minimum amount, nobody loses any money (or time), but it also doesn't put a cap on the amount that can be earned, so if people are really into the idea, you could end up with money to fund additional tutorials.
Now, working out the financial piece and how the Kickstarter funds would be held and distributed is another story. ;) I think it should probably be distributed half in advance to each author, half on completion, or something like that. But of course it would have to be held by a trusted agent in the meantime. Hopefully everyone will trust you, or you can perhaps find an escrow service or something.
The important part of all of this, though, is getting to specifics, so people know what they're pledging support for and what they're getting. Right now you have an interesting idea but I think it's hard for people to really support it without knowing exactly what it entails and how it will work. I'm sure many people want tutorials, they may even be willing to pay some amount for them, but someone needs to do the leg work to figure out a model, and if you're willing, you might just be able to make it happen. If you can say to people "put in $10 minimum and you get access to X number of tutorials from X number of well-known, talented TG artists", you're likely to get more people jumping onboard.
- Oshyan
I have to think on this.
Is anyone interested in this from a logistical stand point? Interested enough to help build it?
Have to think on this. I just wanted to spend money. But I guess someone will have to put it together.
Oshyan, Could we start a thread in a few days, where people post one or two links to work by people other than them selves. Work they regard as very inspirational in a TG creative sense, as well as a visual way?
I think it should not just be about what I like, what i'm interested in. The image pool should be more diverse than my taste and reasoning. We need a selection of images that are complex enough to merit a tut. But the advanced users will reconize complex node work from the image alone, much better than I will.
Have to think beyond the idea to pratical realization. HAHA, thats what I get for thinking in the first place. :o
You can post whatever thread(s) you want. Certainly it would make the most sense to get input from a variety of people.
Best of luck. :-)
- Oshyan
I have a list of ~20 tutorials (ultra basic to advanced) which I want to record to video with audio, but I still don't have the time to build a damn website, nor do I have the understanding of it yet. I have 2 domains for a year already, unused :-\
There are some IT guys at the genomics lab here who may be interested in some extra money.
There are some places to build websites without much IT knowledge...possibly useful in this case.
Quote from: Tangled-Universe on July 11, 2012, 05:10:48 AM
I have a list of ~20 tutorials (ultra basic to advanced) which I want to record to video with audio, but I still don't have the time to build a damn website, nor do I have the understanding of it yet. I have 2 domains for a year already, unused :-\
There are some IT guys at the genomics lab here who may be interested in some extra money.
Quote from: calico on July 11, 2012, 10:02:31 AM
There are some places to build websites without much IT knowledge...possibly useful in this case.
Quote from: Tangled-Universe on July 11, 2012, 05:10:48 AM
I have a list of ~20 tutorials (ultra basic to advanced) which I want to record to video with audio, but I still don't have the time to build a damn website, nor do I have the understanding of it yet. I have 2 domains for a year already, unused :-\
There are some IT guys at the genomics lab here who may be interested in some extra money.
Yes I know, but I'm probably too "vain" for that...I want a simple custom made website which you can easily build online, but I want to have an exact look which is only possible when I do it myself. Something like that.
A wordpress site may have some uses, easily added to and edited and there are few programs out there that help you build the look of it. I'm thinking Artisteer (http://www.artisteer.com/), there are probably others. With a wordpress site you could always give users privileges to add and edit tutorials and links. I admit this is starting to sound a bit wikki-ish ...
Cheers
Richard
Tutorials are really hard to write.
It takes a long time and, as Richard said, either you write a simple "follow my lead" tutorial or a deep technical tutorial.
In the first case, a majority of users can understand and reproduce easily your scene but more advanced ones will just find it useless despite the interesting fact that you can have a look on how people work with TG2; and in the second case, these same artists, already knowing the basics and some subtility of the software, will appreciate a technical tutorial, but the "beginners" will be absolutely lost and will not understand your process but will just copy it over and over.
I tried several times to write tutorials, but unfortunately, considering that english is not my language and the time it takes to write one, I only released one so far.
That said, if tutorials would be paid, I am sure a lot of us should be able to find some free time to write them ;)
That thread is a very good one and I am sorry that I missed it before.
Categorize specific elements / concepts you want to teach. Then, setup a middle of the road tutorial. Include files for the beginners.
Franck, for example, I have asked you to provide a tutorial on how you light TG2 scenes, even if it includes Photoshop tips. You could do this and you have in the past given some tips on how to do your lighting as well as you have included files.
It costs something to make tutorials...you are giving away secrets and concepts others never have taken the time to think about. But, between you, Cyphyr, and TU (and many others here on this site, including Planetside staff), I could see many good tutorials in the future. But, only if you patiently remember we are dweebs and we need you to make it 1-2-3. ;D
Quote from: Seth on July 11, 2012, 12:22:30 PM
Tutorials are really hard to write.
It takes a long time and, as Richard said, either you write a simple "follow my lead" tutorial or a deep technical tutorial.
In the first case, a majority of users can understand and reproduce easily your scene but more advanced ones will just find it useless despite the interesting fact that you can have a look on how people work with TG2; and in the second case, these same artists, already knowing the basics and some subtility of the software, will appreciate a technical tutorial, but the "beginners" will be absolutely lost and will not understand your process but will just copy it over and over.
I tried several times to write tutorials, but unfortunately, considering that english is not my language and the time it takes to write one, I only released one so far.
That said, if tutorials would be paid, I am sure a lot of us should be able to find some free time to write them ;)
That thread is a very good one and I am sorry that I missed it before.
Calico ~ err, if you are a "dweeb", then where do I sign up, I know I qualify :D
Richard (aka cyphyr~dweeb)
;D
Easy as 1-2-3
Quote from: cyphyr on July 11, 2012, 12:35:21 PM
Calico ~ err, if you are a "dweeb", then where do I sign up, I know I qualify :D
Richard (aka cyphyr~dweeb)
Guys guys guys, I think that what you/we need to do is a (e)book: The TG2 by users book.
Seth is right. Writing a tutorial, alone, is hard, boring, and a bit discouraging. Particulary if english is not your first langage (seriously, write the little tutorial on a very basic texturing technique take me 5 hours). We all have differents approaches, differents specialites, differents interests, differents techniques... We need to regroup, and putt together all the already done works.
So we could write it in a cooperative way (one guy, one little part on his speciality), update it with TG2 versions, sell it for a low price, and maybe Planetside team could store the files examples somewhere... Make a list of the topics we want to explain. Each person take one, and write his tutorial... The others can review / correct / improve it.
For each tutorial, we can have:
- What I'm going to do? (project presentation)
- How I'm going to do it? and why do it this way and not an other?
- Did I need something else before starting (prework on textures, objects, data, etc.)?
- What is my minimal node tree (proof of concept)?
- How it can evolve, be tweaked? (several iterations, more complex clip file)
- How to integrate that thing in a big epic scene?
- See the result! (final render, postwork, and scene files)
I see it already. Take the atmospheric topic (I was just looking at the Calico clouds library topic), we have:
- Atmospheric nodes presentation.
- Basic use.
- How to do:
- Big epic orage clouds (Luc).
- Altocumulus (Matt).
- Cyrus.
- Clouds from above (nvseal).
- Hurricane (nvseal).
- Skybox.
- Volcano plume.
- Noctilucent Clouds.
- Sand storm.
- Tornado (FrankB / nbk2).
- Aurora borealis (I could do this one).
- Double Rainbow (bigben)!!!
- etc.
We'll be rich! :D (finally buy TG2, buy a new computer, buy some food, buy a Raleigh Burner mk2, buy, buy, buy...)
Its a pretty good idea, Chinaski! Others have mentioned something similar, but no one does it. Someone has to start it! Once it looks good others will sign on.
*I like having a hard copy. A book could be printed; from here for example: http://www.blurb.com/
OK. so I made some pages on the Wiki.
You are supposed to edit the page and add things you want to see.
http://www.planetside.co.uk/wiki/index.php?title=Tutorial_planning_Area (http://www.planetside.co.uk/wiki/index.php?title=Tutorial_planning_Area)
I broke it into four categories.
There is no reason why there should only be 4. Please make any changes you like. Its a wiki.
For those of you new to this:
- Register. (at the top of the page)
- Here's the cheatsheet for formatting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Cheatsheet
- Add a tut and what's in it and what it should show into a section.
- Add comments in italics about +/-1, or perhaps more detail about what it should explain, below each one.
When we can agree about where tuts go - and whats in each one then we can start making them
Nothing can stop you now... but lack of interest...
Video training is the very best. Watching someone like Seth or TU do something will teach me 10 times what a Wiki can do.
Wikis are nice, so this isn't about saying no to Wikis.
The wiki login/pass should be the same as your forum login/pass. Please don't register new accounts to use it. If you have problems with access using your regular forum info, let us know.
Videos work well for some people and not for others, and they don't necessarily take significantly less effort than text. They're also virtually impossible to *collaborate* on effectively (at least with more than 2 or so people), which makes them a lot more of a burden for a single person, being unable to split up things into smaller tasks for different people to tackle, refine, improve, etc. That's the beauty of the wiki.
One could even imagine writing the base tutorial in the wiki over time (with possibly many different contributors), and then 1 person recording a video version *of* it. But I don't think it makes sense, given the already difficult time getting tutorials made available, to focus efforts on video. It just places the burden more on individuals who are, as we've seen, seldom have the time to fully produce something on their own. Imagine if, rather than having to single-handedly write the script for, record, and edit a tutorial of 30 minutes length, you could just write a couple of paragraphs, and others would fill in parts of it as well. A major long-term benefit of a collaborative approach is even if only 1 person contributes at a given time, as long as people keep making changes, jumping in when someone else stops working, the effort and improvement can continue.
- Oshyan
I agree 100%!
Im going to learn how to use the wiki page neon set up as an example, this weekend. And I will post links to all of the tuts I found with a brief description. That should give a good start at centralizing info, since the tuts I found are scattered across the internets. As I said, there is something like 30 of them just on deviantART alone, and I have found more in other places. Some of them by people in this community too! I have no idea why there not already here? Maybe where I found them is not where the author wanted them?
But as I said these tuts are just tips and tricks, puzzle pieces, that would have much more use when you know what the finished puzzle is supposed to look like.
So there still needs to be at least two or three, begin to end tuts from intermediate to advanced. I think there is already several good get started lessons. (but more would be nice too)
Having said that, Ill also try to make a good effort to plan out how to raise some cash and disperse it per the ideas given in this thread.
Everyone interested in this should please start thinking about the images they would most like to be walked through, and people who think $500 is an ok price should start thinking about which images they are willing to *part with*. Although please remember that the tut you author will likely be seen by hundreds, and possibly thousands of current and future TG2 users! So putting a link to your website, or product page, will be good exposure. Not to mention that you will be able to say that, not only are you a great TG2 user, you also teach TG2! Something that may sound nice on a resume ;)Just buttering your bread baby, just buttering your bread.
Hi,
I just learned to use the wikki, sorta. And I posted links to more than 20 tuts there. Some of you may not have seen them all. And new users probably haven't seen any of them.
Worth checking out
Also,
Please go to the new thread to post links to the images you would like to see tuts on.
Lastly,
There are some great ideas in this tread. I hope they will be developed!
calico ~
QuoteVideo training is the very best.
Thank heavens, I'm sitting here thinking - what are they talking about, everyone with one exception is discussing a written tutorial. Solely written tutorials ! Good grief this is a graphic medium which in the main displays its wares via the brilliant contributions by all you lot. The last thing I would want to do is to just read how you done it; I would want to see how you did it.
Now before everyone jumps on my head from a great height I have been training and educating for over 50 years and to accept the above as the be all and end all for prospective tutorials would be a grave error. You have to fit the design to the purpose. If one can demonstrate something on video more readily absorbed by which ever level of target audience you are aiming for, why on earth write the tutorial to the exclusion of any other forms of media. Mix and match, mix and match.
Of course there are perfectly valid reasons and examples of written tutorials, but please do not ignore other methods of delivering your pearls of wisdom.
Coming back to Terragen after almost five years away I was amazed at how few tutorials there seemed to be; but then I was perhaps expecting too much but as this is
the home of Terragen, I still find it amazing that it appears on the surface that there aren't any. No sticked FAQ thread either, so you lot must harbour amazing patience, when twits' like me ask the same questions over and over again.
Fortunately I remembered that you use Wiki, But where the hell is it, I thought ah! must be showing a direct link on the home page. Nope. Tutorial link perhaps, hmm, lo, I eventually found the link, but you don't 'arf make things awkward to find.
Bless everyone; you are doing a great job otherwise. ;D
Quote from: RedSquare on July 16, 2012, 09:25:37 AM
calico ~ QuoteVideo training is the very best.
Coming back to Terragen after almost five years away I was amazed at how few tutorials there seemed to be; but then I was perhaps expecting too much but as this is the home of Terragen, I still find it amazing that it appears on the surface that there aren't any. No sticked FAQ thread either, so you lot must harbour amazing patience, when twits' like me ask the same questions over and over again.
There's a FAQ here, written by me:
http://www.nwdanet.com/terragen-tutorials/63-terragen-2-faq
I think I need to revisit this one, as some relevant changes to TG2 have been made in the meantime.
There are some good reasons stated in this thread why there aren't many tutorials.
Briefly, it's so difficult to write a decent one as the subject gets complex very quickly and you need to make it accessible to as many people as possible. Together with possible language barriers this all in all isn't very easy.
As said before Terragen 2 is more like a kind of language rather than having a very fixed workflow.
This is something I like to address though on my personal website, some time.
It will all be video for sure ;)
Oh thank you very much for that link; I shall read and absorb later this evening. Thanks Martin, much obliged. :)
Video, exactly; if there is a language barrier then at least the viewer can follow your steps even if s/he doesn't understand fully your explanation. Plus I do not know many 3D modelling programs with only one way of (skinning the cat) work flow that is. :P
I fully support people who want to do videos! I will even pledge right here and right now, to help with graphics or even rendering for the examples.
Although with rendering, it will depend a lot on what you want. A schedule will have to be planned. And I would not want my system tied up for more than 10-15 hours at a time. But the offer will stand.
Yes I want written tuts, preferably in pdf form. But my intention was just to get 2 or 3. I have a very long list why written is ideal. After the 2-3, I hope there will be lots of video tuts!
Hmm, here is really a discussion about the sense of TG tutorials ???
Its a question how many time you can spend in a software to learn. If you have NO time, video Tuts are the efficient way to learn a Software in some hours. Specially TG is not innovative to handle becuase it is not visual GUI based most time. Its mathematic based with tweaking numbers and try and error is frustrated with hours of render times to see the result and if you are on the right way....
Other CG-Software packes have always tons of high Quality basic or advanced Tutorials Online for free, also as for pay or as DVDs.
Perhaps TG isn't so popular and it's difficult to sell a 5 hour advanced DVD for 49$ very often?
Here is a serie of Beginners Tutorial start - i found from CGScenery.com:
http://www.cgscenery.com/basic
I hope this Video series goes to advanced stuff for setup realistic looking settings and scenes.
Thanks!
Just saw this thread and I actually think the OP has a great idea. As a newbie, I really could do with some structured videos (my preferred choice) that will take me through doing the basics but actually explaining the nodes. It is very hard work otherwise using the wiki and trying to work out the nodes and what each slider means. The tutorials I have completed from community members are great - and I am very grateful for them - they showed me around the interface and I got a result, but they have been fairly click this, do this and you should get that.
So, for example, this is how you make a fractal landscape and this is how you mask it, why this can be helpful - and I'll explain the node settings as I go and which ones are important and which ones not to worry about so much.
I would suggest it focused on the just most useful node types and makes sure it covers enough to get someone from zero to being able to do an moderately complex scene. This way it gives people the understanding of the logic. Any tutorials must in my opinion clarify how the nodes interact. Once the common nodes are understood and how they interact then the other nodes can be learnt more easily from the wiki.
Decent and detailed getting started and an understanding the essential nodes in TG seem to me to be vital - surely would drive some sales as well. The nature of the software is such is that it can take a long time to experiment, it isn't like my other 3d packages where I can make a change and my real time hires preview changes in a second or so (it's an awesome way to work) - I get that this is not possible in TG (although I am hoping the TG3 preview is a lot quicker) but this for me is an absolutely vital reason why some detailed beginners stuff is needed. It is taking me way longer than I anticipated so far. I know the power is there and so is the result but it absolutely should not be this hard.
So, although this is an old thread I for one would happily contribute if anything ever got off the ground. Will there be any new material from Planetside for the TG3 launch?
Also, thanks for the link Snowflake to the CG tuts - had not seen them - will have a gander now :)
Cheers all, hope I have not come across all whingy - don't mean to be!! I really am grateful for the user tutorials and the help people have given me on this forum - everyone is very supportive - hopefully I can return some of the advice one day! :)
Cheers
S