Heya,
I'm trying to image map some .jpg's onto a plane object (flat sheet) and I'm having some trouble getting the image to perfectly match the shape of the plane. It kind of looks like I'm getting the image but only a small, zoomed in portion of it. Can anyone here describe a decent way of doing this or point to a thread that does?
I'm not sure whether the plane object has UV's.
I never tried this, so no idea yet.
The plane object has no UV's as far as I know. The easiest way would be to use a third party modelling package, and make your plane with it's UV's in there and then import your modelled plane with the UV attached.
Cheers
Richard
In 2008 I did what you're trying to achieve: I used an image map shader for the colour function of the plane's surface shader. The image was projected through the render camera, (See attached .TGD)
A year later I did use this method to create a rusty corrugated iron roof except that this time the projection type was "Plan Y". (See attached .TGD)
Okay, I think I'm starting to see what at least part of my problem is; and that is the plane is very dependent on the light source. The light source has to be on the side of the plane with the image map, or it won't work.
So, does anyone know how to apply luminosity to the problem, and make the surface independent of the light source. Also, is there a third party modelling program you would recommend for setting up UV's (whatever they are)?
Quoteis there a third party modelling program you would recommend for setting up UV's (whatever they are)?
Hi.
It sounds like you want something simple and to the point. Blender would be one free option. But Blender is probably over kill if all you want to do is some basic modeling.
Hexagon2 Is what I am using for modeling. I needed to learn how to model because I couldn't afford to buy every single model I needed. And to make my own "hero" objects.
Hex2 is a modeling only app. Very simple UI, has lots of tutorials and is free. The tutorials are free too.
Even if you want a "complete" 3D package at some point, learning to model in hexagon first will save you a lot of stress. And though the UIs of other programs will be different the methods you learn will transfer.
Yes, you can UV map in Hex2. The process is a little idiosyncratic, but simple and effective nonetheless.
http://www.daz3d.com/products/hexagon/hexagon-what-is-hexagon
If you decide to go with Hex, let me know here and I will save you some time by linking you to the tuts you need for the job you described.
Watching the tuts will take you longer than doing the work ;D
*actually. If all you want is a plane object (flat surface) that is UV mapped. I could probably through that together for you in about 5 seconds. Yes, thats how easy what your asking for is, in basic terms.
Though, if you like 3D you should definitely learn how to model.
Yeah, Hexagon sounds more like what I'm looking for. I was also looking at Google Sketchup, but haven't DL'd it yet.
And yes, as far as this whole planes thing goes, it is a very simple project, just that Terragen is being a little temperamental about the planes (a rotation option would go a long way to saving my sanity). And even once I've got the plane textured right, I still don't know if that will solve my lighting issues.
But really, what I'm attempting to do with the plane object is to slide it behind my render scene as a substitution for Terragen's native clouds (my own photographs being the substitution) and to have the plane object render like a normal object, except that it is lit the same weather it is being hit by light or lies in shadow.
*And yes, all I want is a plane object that is UV mapped with the dimensions being that a standard 35mm photo ratio (4:3). I was under the impression you'd need the image to do this, but if you can set up a template .tgc, I'd be grateful. In the event that you do need the photo, I'd better learn to do it myself (I need the modeler anyway, so send the links) because you'd have to do it several dozen times.
Below is a failed test, but I think it illustrates what I'm looking for.
QuoteI was also looking at Google Sketchup, but haven't DL'd it yet.
Someone should correct me if Im wrong, but the 'free version' of sketchup does not allow you to export .obj. Or so I remember.
Hex is a "complete" modeling app. And works much more like the major packages than sketchup. I have an old version of sketchup and it *is* easy to use, but I didn't get the feeling that using it was a great investment.
On the other hand, Hex2 may not be under further development, and it has a few bugs. But I do recommend it over sketchup by far.
Modeling is time consuming but comparably less complicated to other aspects of 3D work (I find). And Hex made the learning process very easy for me. Add to all that, that its free. And yes, this is a glowing recommendation.
Quote...I was under the impression you'd need the image to do this...
It would be easier for you if I had the image. And yes, the proper way to do it would be to have the image on the object before you export your .obj.
But its the object that is mapped not the texture. If I sent you a .obj at the correct proportions, then you could just load the image and it should show up. But there could be issues that are avoidable.
Quotebut if you can set up a template .tgc, I'd be grateful.
I can get you an .obj which is a few less steps for me. I will just find an image online of a sky, at the correct aspect ratio. you would just go into the object node and load your own image.
But I need just a little more information first. Is the object (plane) just a flat sheet like a piece of paper, or does it have depth as well as H&W? can it or should it have depth?
You will need to PM me your E-mail.
Quote(I need the modeler anyway, so send the links)
Do all of the tuts in the first link and you will know how to use Hex for basic things.
I will give you links for tuts on mapping that are better than the 2 in this list, less confusing.
Introduction:
http://www.geekatplay.com/hexagontutorials/begining.php
100 or so general tuts. Very helpful and easy to follow. Just do the ones that interest you, come back to the others when you need them.
http://www.geekatplay.com/hexagontutorials/index0.php
five more that are pretty nice.
http://3dexport.com/3dtuts/category/3d-tutorials/hexagon/
MAPPING:
http://www.geekatplay.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1067
^^this is how you should do ALL of your mapping in Hex. Dont do it the auto way, even if the auto mapping actually works, do it manually.
Do this tut below and you will know how to map and use photoshop with Hex. This tut has everything you need to know based on this thread. (5 parts)
1) http://www.geekatplay.com/flvplayer/player.php?pathinfo=gary/grenade1
2) http://www.geekatplay.com/flvplayer/player.php?pathinfo=gary/grenade2
3) http://www.geekatplay.com/flvplayer/player.php?pathinfo=gary/grenade3
4) http://www.geekatplay.com/flvplayer/player.php?pathinfo=gary/grenade4
5) http://www.geekatplay.com/flvplayer/player.php?pathinfo=gary/grenade5
Background Map (not a tut but helpful info)
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/775/
Sculpting in Hex2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mC7kKWR6Nws&feature=player_detailpage
Its 4AM where I am. I'm done for the night now. If I see something from you tonight Ill send that .obj.
Good luck.
4am? lol It's only 3am here in Calgary. Good to know I'm not the only night owl...
Thanks for all the links. I am certain they'll keep me busy for awhile.
Concerning the plane object. Yeah, pretty much a flat sheet. It doesn't need depth, but it can still have it, as the sides will not be shown in any scenes. As long as it isn't a box and hard to distinguish where the sides are, I have no problems with it. E-mail will be in the PM.
Cheers, man.
I'll send you the object in the afternoon. No problem. it will take all of a min or two.
But I bet if you started on those tuts now you would know how to build just about anything by tonight.
See ya later.
Sent to your e-mail.
Let me know that you got it.
Got it. Haven't tested it yet, but I'll let you know. Thanks again.
And just like that...history was made!
Now I have to learn how to model. How hard could it be???
Wow man, that works really well!
I understand what you did here, but I would like some details about the how.
Obviously you put the textured object in the sky. But with everything TG2 related I am sure there is a lot more to it than whats obvious.
Would you mind writing a brief tut of your method including tips for avoiding issues. I know that Tg2 takes color information from imported images. But how did you match up the lighting? Does the method work as well over land as it does a flat reflective surface? Please go into detail if you have time.
I think this method would be a much better solution for my photo compositing with TG2, than what I have tried so far.
QuoteNow I have to learn how to model. How hard could it be?
Personally, I think basic modeling is the easiest aspect of the 3D workflow. The mechanics of modeling are, I think, much more straight forward than say the process of working between TG2, Maya and some compositing software. But I am just referring to basic things in modeling; making an object of some kind and putting a texture on it.
Of course modeling is very time consuming. It can take a long time to build something that looks just the way you want it to. But the good news is you get to spend all that work time working, and not just trying to understand how software functions.
I'm telling you! Do those tuts (it will take you like one day) and you will know how to model! After that you can just find tuts on specific things and you will be able to follow them, even translate the info to Hex if the tuts are for other software. Buy grass and trees and normal things from vendors like Silva3D or NWDA, but make your own Heros!
P.S
O yeah. Probably the reason that the TG2 plane object is not mapped if it is in fact not mapped (my guess) is because people may need to change the dimensions of the object from default settings. And I would think that would mess up the mapping.
It's ironic you're asking me how it's done, and you did half the work. lol
As far as writing tut's goes, I don't know if that's in the cards, and it's far from perfected. Even this scene I scrapped together in about 5 mins (and thus, did not test it under a lot of different circumstances). Although at this point, I'm confident it will work the way I want it to (finally). But I can tell you what I did and it's actually quite a bit less than what's obvious and so simple you'll kick yourself.
I know Hollywood does this sort of thing all the time, and the 3-D purists will scoff, I'm sure. And even though I'm very impressed with Terragen's cloud engine, for some things, I just want to use my own photographs that I've saved specifically for a project I've been working on for years. I could easily slide this into photoshop and do the same thing (with even more options), however, in the case of having something in front of the sky backdrop -foliage, for instance - that process is a little difficult and tends to leave annoying artifacts between the branches and leaves and is not ideal.
Essentially, there are 4 of the mapped plane objects in the scene that you provided me with. The first three are obvious, they are the 3 nonsensically hanging in mid-air above the lake (done to make sure I can reproduce what I wanted). The 4th is the large sky object in the background. The *only difference* between the one in the background and the ones in the front is the scale.
It's the lighting I'm sure you're most curious about, and the magic of that is, there is none. Well, obviously the scene is lit, but I stripped away any and all lighting effects. Turn Off Shadows on the mapped plane objects and crank the Translucency to 1 for the mapped plane and viola! They will very much appear in the render as the original files do when browsing them in your folder (although these are a little bit brighter, I'm confident I can correct later, somehow).
I can definitely offer a few tips for avoiding issues, however. In most cases, animation is out, if that's your thing. Otherwise you're looking at a forced perspective nightmare. For the same reason, you kind of need some generic, high-quality photographs (royalty free or self-created, if you want to avoid trouble) of skies, clouds, or anything else you want to use this technique for. And these pictures will sort of have to 'go' with your image. This is a subjective, artistic thing you sort of have to 'feel' out. A good rule of thumb to (almost) always go by, is the sky is brighter than the ground in (almost) all cases. Also, the angle at which you render your scene should be very close to the angle that the photograph was taken. In my case, clouds that are directly above you, will appear different than clouds at the horizon.
The single biggest problem I imagine in getting things to mesh together nicely, it the atmosphere in Terragen. Removing your mapped plane from the effects of light is easy, but if you place your mapped plane too far away from the camera, it will begin to collect atmosphere in front of it and then things can deteriorate quickly as far as maintaining the illusion. This is the problem I was getting when I was using the plane object last night. I didn't save any except the one I posted a few comments ago (however that was a quick test scene, and not a good example, because the light is in front). It is possible, if your atmosphere is constant, to have atmosphere in front of the plane, but much of TG's atmosphere is not (which is it's strength), as it tapers away with height and increases with distance. Still you might get away with it, if you're particularly clever and can match up the distant haze and atmosphere to the bottom part of your sky (maybe they're both white at such a great distance).
In any event, I still have a lot more testing to do. Certainly it won't work for every scene, and the simpler the scene, and the closer the plane to the camera, the better. If I run some more tests in the next few days, I'll post them to this thread.
I'm looking forward to modeling, I just hope texturing isn't another nightmare beyond that.
And I'd like to know more about the photo compositing you're doing. And what's a Hero object?
Also, the TG2 plane object and I are no longer on speaking terms...and the future doesn't look good either.
Hi,
I just thought I'd mention there will be a new plane-type object added in a future version which is much easier to use than the plane, especially for things like billboarding.
Regards,
Jo
Okay, below is what I consider a successful test. Even with atmosphere visible it blends quite well in the scene. Although now I have a different problem regarding lighting and that will be covered in a new thread. Apparently, even though I try to mask the mapped plane from the effects of light, it's not quite as independent as I'd like it to be.
I look forward to seeing what the new options will be, Jo.
Hi,
I just took a look at your gallery. The image "Eilean Donan Castle" http://www.uponinfinity.com/prints.html is very nice. :o
You asked about my "photo compositing". After looking at your site this thread makes a lot more sense to me now. You were right (IMHO) to choose Terragen2 over other software if your intention is to make photo prints via 3D. Especially if you plan on doing photo compositing. Tg2 can produce images that blend with the real thing better than any other software that I have seen; For terrain at least. And again this is all just my personal feelings of the software.
My interest in terragen2 initially was to use the software in my nontraditional printing workflow; platinum, color transfer, Gum bichromates, lots of methods, even printing by intaglio. TG2 was a great way to get images that I didn't have a chance to make with a camera. But since I have been reading these forums, my interest in 3D has grown exspentially.
My education is all in Fine art and film. And my work background is broadcast television. I was an editor before going back to school. So when I found TG2 I was completely sold at first sight! I saw what people were doing with it and knew this was the way to go for me.
The software is easy to use once you understand it. But learning it in the first place has been a long painful process for me. So I have only a little "good" work done with it yet.
Here is a link to an artist that indirectly got me to terragen2, http://www.dylancolestudio.com/ He uses actual photos in his work as well.
Imagine that kind of stuff (take a look at the image of the people bathing in the river) in a B&W platinum! All the people in just the perfect place, the light just right.
He is a matte painter as you can see, I understand that is one of the primary uses for TG2, and I guess thats what some of the people from this community do. But I think TG2 is better than just a background maker and terrain visualizer! The renderer is great in my view, you get good images from default.
So this is where modeling comes in. Those buildings by the river in 3D would be hero objects. unique models made for a prominent position in a final work. That is why I mentioned Silva3D and NWDA. They provide models in TG2's native format at a good price. But your not likely going to find Something like the buildings I mentioned any place for cheep. So making them is a good option. Thats just my example, anything singular would do. But if you don't want to model, walli at Silva 3d will make you what you want for a fee.
Ok now after that long awkward testimonial, here is some more information related to your testing, in case you haven't seen it yet. Maybe someone else will need it.
http://forums.planetside.co.uk/index.php?topic=2537.0
So your not the first to do what your doing, but your the first (I think) to write down the instructions. Good job for that!
Here are some more images that influenced me to buy terragen2. No, theres no obvious visual relationship. But I like treating portraits like landscapes. LOgic is not a requirement for being an artist. It may help though.
http://www.vervegallery.com/?p=artist_biography&a=MG&photographer=Misha%20Gordin
Heck, your a photographer, just take a look at the entire artist list and gallery.
http://www.vervegallery.com/?p=represented_artists
:o
Quote from: TheBadger on August 23, 2012, 08:36:37 PM
...hero objects. unique models made for a prominent position in a final work.
:o
So that's what a hero object is? I've seen the reference many times but never understood it.
Hi ,
Open TG2 with a new project.
Make a new "Image map shader" node . Choose a picture you want. Do not play with the settings (for now).
Make a new "Surface layer" node .
Put the "Image map shader" output in the "Surface layer" node "colour function" and "luminosity function" inputs.
Then open the default "Background" node and change the "Surface shader" there to your
newly created "Surface layer" node (the new external input is created in this way).
Now you have the picture that you choose in the "Image map chader" as a background and can use it easily with TG2 clouds etc. too.
You can change the appearance of your image in the surface layer colour and luminosity settings etc.
You can play with the Atmosphere primary and secondary options too.
This has the advantage that you can use the camera as a projection method and in this way it does not matter how you position your camera etc.
It is very easy for stills . But like your Plane this has some limitations too of course.
Maybe you know this already i do not know but just in case...
Cheers.
Hi Kadri,
No, I didn't know about this particular method, but I find it interesting!
However, I found the projection method a little frustrating, as it doesn't really give you the kind of flexibility to move that background around if you want. But this method does have the advantage of being quick and being a final layer that is behind absolutely everything, so I think at some point, I'll be able to put it to advantage. So, thanks!
Okay, I solved my lighting issues and I'm going to have to alter the method I mentioned above.
1. Import your mapped plane object.
2. Turn Off Shadows of your mapped plane object.
3. Image goes into LUMINOSITY IMAGE with LUMINOSITY set to 1. Forget translucency and diffuse, as these setting will interact with the lighting in your environment, including casting shadows on the back of the image, showing up in the front.
4. This will create a perfectly lit image (with lighting independent of the rest of the scene), that will not block light passing through it, nor allow any light to be projected onto it.
Enjoy!
Badger: Glad you like the pic. Eilean Donan is a famous castle in Scotland. It was used in the movie 'Highlander'.
Regarding Terragen; I've actually been using Terragen 2 off and on since the Technology Preview. I started with the 0.9 version and once I saw the alpha images for TG 2 and started reading about it capabilities, I was sold. Particularly the 'instancing' of vegetation and other models and the fact it is primarily for landscape images (which my project has a lot of), and the fact it would allow for additional objects to be imported. I knew I still had (and have) a couple of hurdles left to clear. Figuring out these imported skies was one of them. Next is modeling (I'm gonna check out Hexagon and look up your tutorials. And then, a hell of a lot of sweat work.
QuoteI just took a look at your gallery. The image "Eilean Donan Castle" http://www.uponinfinity.com/prints.html is very nice.
Wasn't that almost my exact words when we first spoke some time ago, Chad? :)
Not too far from me, it's a beautiful place that everyone visiting the North should come and see.
Regarding the billboards, I've quite often done this with TG2, it works well for distant vegetation and things like that. There was a problem with the inbuilt plane where, if an alpha channel was used, the shadowing on the rest of the scene would not account for the alpha and the shadow would still cast as a solid plane so, it was best to use an imported plane. Does this work properly now? I don't suppose it makes much difference here, since you have shadows turned off for the planes.
* If you use an imported 2D plane object to create a population, remember to restrict the instanced Y rotation to around 30 degrees max' from your view to stop your planes appearing too side-on when positioned. :)
Hi, Dandelo
Yep, that was me. I've sold quite of a few pictures of that castle and very envious am I of your living near it.
As far as lighting goes, I didn't experiment with alpha channels. I assume under my current settings, any alpha channel (partial transparency), would only allow light to be seen through the panel. And yes, this works quite well. My whole idea was to create a panel that is lit independently of the rest of the scene so as not to interfere with the scene lighting. For example if I have a backlit scene and the sun has to light the foreground through the panel, I don't want it to cast a shadow onto the scene. Another problem I was having, was if I kept the original cloud layer on top of the plane, it was casting shadows onto the plane itself from both behind it and on front, depending on where the light was coming. Also, when I took my light source away (- elevation), the panel would not be lit. All of those problems are solved with LUMINOSITY. Except shadows, you have to turn those off as well.
Hey Infinity,
Just to be clear, I did not mean to sound condescending, if I did. I was just writing in general terms. And sharing how I have some of the same interests. Hope my tone reads like I thought?
QuoteImage goes into LUMINOSITY IMAGE with LUMINOSITY set to 1. Forget translucency and diffuse, as these setting will interact with the lighting in your environment, including casting shadows on the back of the image, showing up in the front.
Which image? Anything I try to plug into the "LUMINOSITY IMAGE" plug is refused. The node line actually turns from green to red.
When you say plane, you are really saying object. Since I made it I know that there is absolutely no difference between the object plane your referring to, and any other object. Therefore, what you have done with the new "plane", can be done with any object!
So, I have wanted to do something in particular with the methods in this thread. But I cant get my object to produce light. I am guessing that it is not the object but the image map that becomes the light source? At any rate I cant make this work yet.
You said that I needed to turn off shadows on my object. But how do you turn of shadows per object?
Some help please!
Quote from: TheBadger on September 04, 2012, 10:06:21 PM
Which image? Anything I try to plug into the "LUMINOSITY IMAGE" plug is refused. The node line actually turns from green to red.
Perhaps this screenshot will help. I don't think you can do this through the nodes. So open up the actual shader panel and select the image you want and push luminosity to at least 1.
Quote from: TheBadger on September 04, 2012, 10:06:21 PM
When you say plane, you are really saying object. Since I made it I know that there is absolutely no difference between the object plane your referring to, and any other object. Therefore, what you have done with the new "plane", can be done with any object!
No difference between this imported object and any other imported object, yes. But a significant difference between this object and Terragen's native Plane object, which I found to be rather unwieldy.
Quote from: TheBadger on September 04, 2012, 10:06:21 PM
So, I have wanted to do something in particular with the methods in this thread. But I cant get my object to produce light. I am guessing that it is not the object but the image map that becomes the light source? At any rate I cant make this work yet.
Yes, once the luminosity operation is enabled, the light can become a lightsource. See my post here:
http://www.planetside.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=15004.msg146188#msg146188
Quote from: TheBadger on September 04, 2012, 10:06:21 PM
You said that I needed to turn off shadows on my object. But how do you turn of shadows per object?
See screenshot number 2.
Quote
Which image? Anything I try to plug into the "LUMINOSITY IMAGE" plug is refused. The node line actually turns from green to red.
Perhaps this screenshot will help. I don't think you can do this through the nodes. So open up the actual shader panel and select the image you want and push luminosity to at least 1.
Ahhhh, ok. thanks. I haven't tried again to see if this method is going to work for what I want. But I'm sure these answers clarify things.
QuoteBut a significant difference between this object and Terragen's native Plane object, which I found to be rather unwieldy.
Sure. I was just happy at my personal revelation that what your talking about in this thread IS NOT a one trick pony (exclamation mark) insert happy face.
To anyone reading this:
Why does it matter if I connect a node in the node network via right click select, Vs., adding one from the panel as the last post clarified? Whats the difference? Why the difference?
Thanks
Luminosity Image is not a node input but rather a file input; it's also a setting of the Default Shader node. Right-clicking the input in the node network allows you to set the file name, which can also be done through the node's settings. They effect the exact same setting. The input does show up as a standard node input, but doesn't allow node connections because it's for a file reference, and I think that could be a bit confusing. We might consider changing the color of file input ports in the future.
- Oshyan
^^ thanks Oshyan :)