Hello all. In this thread there's a lot of good discussion about creating "Terragen Visual Reference Sheets" (TVRS) for node settings in TG.
http://www.planetside.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=15021.msg146979#msg146979
I'd like to give this idea a proper test so I'm committing to put some time in to setting up, rendering, and posting the "TVRS" for 50-100 settings across 5-10 different nodes. I'd like to get the community's feedback on what nodes to start with on this project. Which nodes (and their settings) do you think would best exemplify this idea? Which would have the most impact and be the most valuable?
Post your picks for 5-10 nodes for TVRS documentation below.
Thanks!
- Oshyan
Hi Oshyan,
For starters these are maybe the most important ones.
They should be in , at least the less understood parts in any of them.
1- Atmosphere node
2- Cloud node
3- Power fractal shader
4- Population node
5- Object reader
6- Surface layer node
7- Image map shader
8- Fake stone shader
9- Strata and outcrops shader
10- Render node
Edit : Ok oshyan i deleted these from above;
*- Heightfield shader
*- Camera node
*- Transform shader
*- Micro exporter
;)
Thanks Kadri. Please limit your initial suggestions to 5-10. Otherwise it makes it too hard to tally the most popular.
- Oshyan
1- Power fractal shader
2- Surface Layer Node
3- cloud node
4- Fake Stone Shader
5- camera node
I guess when trying to nail down a single node to start with, one that will be of the most use to the most people, then the camera node will probably not win. Since by and large it is pretty easy to work with. But I included it in my list because matching cameras is an important for compositing renders with photographs and live footage.
And the more I know about the TG camera the better. So I just wanted it on the list.
1-Cloud Node
2- Fake Stone Shader
3- Power Fractal
4- Surface Layer
5-Image Map
Thanks Oshyan!
1. Power Fractal node/Density fractal node ~ do these as one ~ contrast and compare
2. Cloud layer
3. Surface layer/Distribution shader ~ do these as one ~ contrast and compare
4. Compute Terrain
5. Cloud node
Richard
1. Cloud node
2. power fractal
3. Simple shape node
4. Surface layer
5. Light node
Quote from: cyphyr on September 16, 2012, 07:19:41 AM
1. Power Fractal node/Density fractal node ~ do these as one ~ contrast and compare
3. Surface layer/Distribution shader ~ do these as one ~ contrast and compare
4. Compute Terrain
2. Cloud layer
5. Cloud node
Richard
Exactly this +
Planetside really needs to document (expected) input and output data types for every node!Would #2 not be 'cloud layer/node' Richard??
If so, then 5 would be rendersettings.
If you would do these 5 above properly then a LOT of TG2's basics will be covered.
If I'd set up a learning programme it would look like this in a nutshell:
- UI overview
- UI overview, show elements of scene by tab-based system vs node-network system (each tab also has a network group) and why to use the node-network from the beginning and never use the tab-based system. Really!
- Node network: explain top-down data stream principle with a planet as end-point.
- Node network/data: briefly explain data types (vector, scalar, colour) and how these are passed along the network -> explain input/output ports
- Node network/data: using the default scene with HF and explain why this is the result we're getting, covering the above aspects.
Then the parts covered in this discussion and as suggested by Richard:
1. Power Fractal node/Density fractal node ~ do these as one ~ contrast and compare
3. Surface layer/Distribution shader ~ do these as one ~ contrast and compare
4. Compute Terrain
2. Cloud layer/node
5. Render settings
Understanding TG2 basically means:
Understanding flow of data in network.
Which datatypes exist and what is needed for what?
How does the powerfractal work? Understanding the powerfractal's possibilities covers SO much of TG2 "modus operandi" (Richard;))
Blending/masking options.
Rendersettings.
Rendersettings is also really important.
At the moment the information on how the rasterized renderer and raytracer work is really too shady.
What do we know about TG2's GI? According to Matt it's "something like Irradiance Cache and/or Photon Map".
What do we know about the rasterized renderer? "It's something like the REYES implementation on micropolygon creation and shading".
Ok, good to know, but not good enough. The "something" part of the information is too shady.
Take a look at this for example:
http://www.spot3d.com/vray/help/150SP1/
http://www.vray.com/vray_for_sketchup/manual/
http://docs.autodesk.com/MENTALRAY/2012/CHS/mental%20ray%203.9%20Help/files/manual/index.html
http://www.mentalimages.com/fileadmin/user_upload/PDF/arch_and_design.pdf
Vray and Mental Ray manuals I googled and found in under 5 seconds. Many aspects of these 2 renderers are explained in text and in visual.
I realize not everyone is interested in in-depth knowhow of the renderer, but it really helps in trouble-shooting, optimizing and (also of some importance) having the right expectations of what you can/can not.
Overthinking my post above and seeing I may post a top 10 ;D
0) Data streams. Sorry Oshyan, I numbered this as zero because it may not fit well into this topic/discussion.
1) Power fractal/Density fractal
2) Surface Layer/Distribution shader
3) Compute terrain/normal/Tex coords from XYZ
4) Cloud layer node
5) Render node
6) Populator node
7) Strata and Outcrops shader
8) Simple shape shader
9) Water shader
10) Reflective shader
Please limit responses here to a list of nodes you want covered in this way.
In reply to Richard, unless I misunderstand what you're saying, there is no "compare and contrast" for the dual nodes you specify, *the settings are exactly the same*. The only thing that differs are the defaults and/or how the settings are encapsulated.
In reply to Martin, data types are mostly converted automatically throughout the network. Of course that invisible data type conversion can cause confusion as much as (or more than) it aids quick work (imagine if you had to add explicit type conversion nodes everywhere), so I agree that the data types that a given node takes for a given input should be documented. That type of info will be in the Node Reference. But remember there is also the data type conversion page: http://planetside.co.uk/wiki/index.php?title=Node_Input_Type_Conversion
As for knowing the details of exactly how the renderer works, sure that's useful for some people, but I would not class that as a high priority for documentation as it's really a minority of advanced users (such as yourself) that would ever find that information necessary. And even in your case much of that need is due to the complexity of settings currently used; our real goal is to simplify the number of settings needed to achieve high quality, stable-in-motion results.
Again, please limit replies to lists of nodes you want covered. We can discuss general doc needs elsewhere if needed (though much of that is of course recovering old, familiar ground).
- Oshyan
Well all of what I'd have requested is in one or the others of the already submitted requests so I'll just say way t go Oshyan for getting this moving and 2nd all the other suggestions....this is progress I can grok....
Power Fractal Shader.
Cloud Node.
Atmosphere.
Surface Layer.
Erosion Fractal Shader.
Would be my list. Alpine would be another then Fake Stones and Strata. Those would give people a good understanding of Terragens core capabilities I reckon.
Any more votes before I get started on this?
- Oshyan
My personal favorites would be the erosion fractal, cloud node, shader array and contour shader, as I am not very familiar with their possibilities (especially the latter), but I assume this is not really meant for me ::)
Hi Ulco,
Quote from: Dune on September 21, 2012, 03:03:02 AM
My personal favorites would be the erosion fractal, cloud node, shader array and contour shader, as I am not very familiar with their possibilities (especially the latter), but I assume this is not really meant for me ::)
Have you looked at the docs for the shader array and contour shader? The contour shader could do with some images and an example project, but I think the shader array doc is pretty clear about what it does. I could add an example image, but it's really not a complex node. There is an example project on the doc page too.
Regards,
Jo
Thanks Jo, I'll have a look. Sometimes the simple things elude me, probably because I don't use them (often).
Alright everyone, last chance to weigh in on this. I'm going to start creating these this coming week and will try to post as they are completed. They will go in the Planetside wiki, linked from the Node Reference entries. I'll post a final list of nodes I'll be doing in a couple days, once I'm sure everyone's had a chance to get their say.
- Oshyan
Good luck, Oshyan. Curious to see what you come up with!
Just a quick update, this is being worked on, but I'm still at the point of defining the best process to get good results quickly. So there's a bit of experimentation before I'll be able to crank some of this out. Sorry for the delay, just know that progress is being made. :)
- Oshyan
Another progress update: good news, things are rolling now. Got the software issues worked out and figured out methods and standards for image size, number of setting in-betweens, etc. There are some exceptions, but it seems to be working fairly well. Initial results coming soon. Thanks for your patience!
- Oshyan
Thanks Oshyan!
Take your time.............good things come to those that wait. ;D
looking forward to see the results!