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General => Image Sharing => Topic started by: alessandro on August 20, 2013, 08:36:58 AM

Title: Ice Age Migration
Post by: alessandro on August 20, 2013, 08:36:58 AM
Learning TG since about 3 weeks, as a second project I wanted to create an ice age scene and use some heavily furred characters, very curious to see how TG3 would handle those.
So I've first set two distant heightfields for the mountains and defined a frozen, icy layer lake where animals would walk on.
The two adult mammoths, the baby mammoth and the the wolly rhino furs have been created in Look at my Hair (a DAZ Studio plugin that I developed with my team-mate Kendall) and exported as textured .OBJ's.
TG3 was able to import those massive meshes without a hickup, and render was reasonably fast (circa 5 hours).
Here comes the .OBJ polygon counts for each model:

Mammoth 1: 3.250.000 quads (575MB)
Mammoth 2: 3.250.000 quads (575MB)
Baby mammoth: 2.200.000 quads (330MB)
Wolly rhino: 5.000.000 quads (780MB)
Distant mammoths (not furred):  (30MB)

It's a crazy test, I know, but I couldn't resist trying to use furred critters...

Adult Mammoths are Dinoraul's, Baby Mammoth is built out of DAZ Studio African Elephant model, and the Wolly Rhino is included in my Rhino by AM model (sold at DAZ store as well).

Being oriented to landscapes I take TG doesn't have dedicated shaders or features to render skin, hairs and 'organic' materials. Nonetheless I'm not unhappy about how the fur looks. Of course if you have pointers to shader tweaking to achieve better looking materials for organic stuff, I'm all hears.

Said that, I will probably re-render the scene using render layers to gather mask maps for the animals and overlay those with Renderman renders for the furred characters, and composite the scene, just to experiment.

Cheers

EDIT: minor postwork done to enhance contrast and lowered saturation or yellow channel a bit.
Title: Re: Ice Age Migration
Post by: inkydigit on August 20, 2013, 08:49:24 AM
Hi Alessandro these are awesome!
I love Wooly Mamoth and Wooly Rhino!
I love the frozen lake/glacier too!
:)
Cheers
Jason
Title: Re: Ice Age Migration
Post by: alessandro on August 20, 2013, 09:16:17 AM
Thanks Jason, I'm glad you liked it!  ;)
Title: Re: Ice Age Migration
Post by: TheBadger on August 20, 2013, 09:16:21 AM
Go ahead, tell me you don't want animation in Terragen. :P ;D

The fur looks great! The scene is (animated) film quality. I love the look! Its great man. Fun too.

Were there really fury Rhinos? Their much better looking than bald African Rhinos, IMHO.
Title: Re: Ice Age Migration
Post by: alessandro on August 20, 2013, 09:19:59 AM
Quote from: TheBadger on August 20, 2013, 09:16:21 AM
Go ahead, tell me you don't want animation in Terragen. :P ;D

The fur looks great! The scene is (animated) film quality. I love the look! Its great man. Fun too.

Were there really fury Rhinos? Their much better looking than bald African Rhinos, IMHO.

Thanks!  :D

Oh yes there were wolly rhino's (actually I mispelled, they are woolly): https://www.google.it/search?q=wolly+rhino&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&gws_rd=cr#fp=a250858b65e716a6&q=woolly+rhino&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&spell=1

It's since I watched the BBC 'Age of Giants' documentaries (a set of 3) recently broadcasted that I wanted to make a scene with both the mammoth and the woolly rhino :)
Title: Re: Ice Age Migration
Post by: EoinArmstrong on August 20, 2013, 09:30:32 AM
This is fabulous!  Yeah the fur looks great - especially the rhino's!
Title: Re: Ice Age Migration
Post by: Kadri on August 20, 2013, 10:27:52 AM

Nice image Alessandro!

Terragen is great in the way it handles big image files , object files.
I tried with much bigger files just for testing and got no problem at all.
When you have enough Ram TG3 just says OK.
You could easily handle a big all woolly herd too probably :)

We just need better, easier object shading probably.
The big mammoth looks too shiny but that fur in general looks OK to me.
Title: Re: Ice Age Migration
Post by: inkydigit on August 20, 2013, 10:31:03 AM
just realised I too mis-spelled woolly!
oooops!
:))
J
Title: Re: Ice Age Migration
Post by: mhaze on August 20, 2013, 10:34:44 AM
I've just had to go and buy that plugin!!   Brilliant work. I love that landscape to.
Title: Re: Ice Age Migration
Post by: Kadri on August 20, 2013, 10:46:23 AM

I missed that plugin part Alessandro.
Looks like a nice plugin and price is great too.
We will get very woolly images soon probably :)
Title: Re: Ice Age Migration
Post by: Hannes on August 20, 2013, 10:47:42 AM
Wow, I'm really impressed by that fur! First I thought you might have rendered out the animals in another app and finally comped it together. Look how well the indirect lighting works in TG even with fur.
You're probably the first one who rendered fur in TG. I did something similar for my "Mosquitos!" guy to create body hair, but I wouldn't call that fur (although I know some guys, whom I would describe as really furry).

Now we only need sub surface scattering to make the ice more translucent! I really hope this is planned for the future.
Title: Re: Ice Age Migration
Post by: alessandro on August 20, 2013, 11:53:52 AM
Quote from: Kadri on August 20, 2013, 10:27:52 AM

Nice image Alessandro!

Terragen is great in the way it handles big image files , object files.
I tried with much bigger files just for testing and got no problem at all.
When you have enough Ram TG3 just says OK.
You could easily handle a big all woolly herd too probably :)

We just need better, easier object shading probably.
The big mammoth looks too shiny but that fur in general looks OK to me.

Thanks Kadri, indeed a class of shaders properly designed (and/or improving current TG render engine) to be used with particular surfaces would enhance TG applications a lot. I'd be delighted to be able to render skin, hair/fur and organic stuff within TG and with better results than the one I achieved in this image (which is anyway satisfactory for me).
But I do understand that TG is oriented to landscapes and in that regard produces amazing results.
I'll certainly experiment with shaders some more and see if I can come up with some skin or organic materials that can be used at some extent.

This is the same woolly rhino rendered in C4D+Vray: of course I don't expect to ever get a similar result in applications designed for landscapes, but if we can get half way would be already cool :)

Title: Re: Ice Age Migration
Post by: alessandro on August 20, 2013, 11:54:33 AM
Quote from: Hannes on August 20, 2013, 10:47:42 AM
Wow, I'm really impressed by that fur! First I thought you might have rendered out the animals in another app and finally comped it together. Look how well the indirect lighting works in TG even with fur.
You're probably the first one who rendered fur in TG. I did something similar for my "Mosquitos!" guy to create body hair, but I wouldn't call that fur (although I know some guys, whom I would describe as really furry).

Now we only need sub surface scattering to make the ice more translucent! I really hope this is planned for the future.

Hi Hannes, yes SSS would really be a nice addition! :)
Title: Re: Ice Age Migration
Post by: alessandro on August 20, 2013, 12:13:25 PM
If I'm allowed to do some self (blatantly biased) promotion, Look at my Hair is a cheap DAZ Studio plugin that allows to fur any object that can be imported into DAZ Studio (thus not only DAZ/Poser figure but virtually any .obj object that you can throw at it).
The plugin has a wide set of tools, deformers and instruments to comb, cut, scale and shape hairs and afterwards you can choose to render within Studio (which uses 3Delight, a RenderMan compliant render engine), or export to a textured .obj, thus having all you need to later import your furry critter to an external application and use it.
At the following links you may find lot of information and renders about it:

https://www.facebook.com/LookAtMyHair (official FB page)
http://www.furrythings.com (LAMH blog)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uc56g6BEO2k&list=PL_JdHHW5yFwbqeq6aJzKtfEdbpt9k4HY6 (1.0 tutorials)

We are currently testing the 1.07 beta which will enhance the plugin introducing several new features asked from users, one of those being an 'adaptive' .obj feature that allows to squeeze geometry size on export without much loss of quality.
Title: Re: Ice Age Migration
Post by: Dune on August 20, 2013, 12:14:01 PM
Now that is really nice, Alessandro. Great looking scene and terrific animals. I agree about the shininess, but I hardly dare say it. Did you say these were for sale somewhere?
Title: Re: Ice Age Migration
Post by: alessandro on August 20, 2013, 12:14:09 PM
Quote from: alessandro on August 20, 2013, 12:13:25 PM
If I'm allowed to do some self (blatantly biased) promotion, Look at my Hair (aka LAMH) is a cheap DAZ Studio plugin that allows to fur any object that can be imported into DAZ Studio (thus not only DAZ/Poser figures/props but virtually any .obj file that you can throw at it).
The plugin has a wide set of tools, deformers and instruments to comb, cut, scale and shape hairs and afterwards you can choose to render within Studio (which uses 3Delight, a RenderMan compliant render engine), or export to a textured .obj, thus having all you need to later import your furry critter to an external application and use it.
At the following links you may find lot of information and renders about it:

https://www.facebook.com/LookAtMyHair (official FB page)
http://www.furrythings.com (LAMH blog)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uc56g6BEO2k&list=PL_JdHHW5yFwbqeq6aJzKtfEdbpt9k4HY6 (1.0 tutorials)

We are currently testing the 1.07 beta which will enhance the plugin introducing several new features asked from users, one of those being an 'adaptive' .obj feature that allows to squeeze geometry size on export without much loss of quality.
Title: Re: Ice Age Migration
Post by: Kadri on August 20, 2013, 12:14:30 PM

At which detail and AA setting did you render Alessandro?
Could you just try a crop render on the big mammoth with higher settings if you have time ?
Just curious if it can get better as it is.
Title: Re: Ice Age Migration
Post by: alessandro on August 20, 2013, 12:24:14 PM
Quote from: Dune on August 20, 2013, 12:14:01 PM
Now that is really nice, Alessandro. Great looking scene and terrific animals. I agree about the shininess, but I hardly dare say it. Did you say these were for sale somewhere?

Thanks Dune, my DAZ Store is at this link: http://www.daz3d.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=alessandro_AM&x=0&y=0
Dinoraul's mammoth can be found at his Renderosity store: http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/search.php?adv_search=&criteria=dinoraul&dept=&type=B&page=2

The woolly rhino comes already LAMH fur presets (as you'll see the model actually includes also the white and black rhino).
Many other DAZ models, also not done by me, can be used attaching fur presets available in our LAMH library: http://www.furrythings.com/presets/
There are presets for lot of figures, humanoids, animals etc.

Mind that there is also a LAMH player which is free and allows to load and render presets (but of course doesn't allow to modify or produce hair styles).
Title: Re: Ice Age Migration
Post by: alessandro on August 20, 2013, 12:28:49 PM
Quote from: Kadri on August 20, 2013, 12:14:30 PM

At which detail and AA setting did you render Alessandro?
Could you just try a crop render on the big mammoth with higher settings if you have time ?
Just curious if it can get better as it is.

Actually I rendered at highest setting, i.e. Detail: 0.8, AA: 0.8. So I guess it won't get better than this. It must be said also that I chose a very dark lighting, so hair strands are probably getting low occlusion shades. I'll try something else next, with brighter shading...
Title: Re: Ice Age Migration
Post by: Kadri on August 20, 2013, 12:37:59 PM
Quote from: alessandro on August 20, 2013, 12:28:49 PM
... AA: 0.8. ...

You mean AA 8 probably ? With Ray trace objects on too probably Alessandro?
Title: Re: Ice Age Migration
Post by: j meyer on August 20, 2013, 12:38:29 PM
Edit:
sorry ,didn't see that alessandro had answered in the meantime
         
Title: Re: Ice Age Migration
Post by: alessandro on August 20, 2013, 12:42:14 PM
Quote from: Kadri on August 20, 2013, 12:37:59 PM
Quote from: alessandro on August 20, 2013, 12:28:49 PM
... AA: 0.8. ...

You mean AA 8 probably ? With Ray trace objects on too probably Alessandro?

Sorry, yes that's AA 8. Ray Trace objects is enabled. Here attached the render configuration used...

Title: Re: Ice Age Migration
Post by: Kadri on August 20, 2013, 12:52:47 PM

Hmm... I see Alessandro. Thanks :)
Title: Re: Ice Age Migration
Post by: RArcher on August 20, 2013, 01:13:24 PM
Great scene, the models really look quite good.  Just so you know since your are just getting started with Terragen, the sliders for your render settings (and all other settings) are mostly just useful guidelines.  You can manually enter pretty much any number if you want settings to be outside the slider range.  There are no "max" render settings, just a balance between how long you want to wait and/or no noticeable differences the higher setting you get.
Title: Re: Ice Age Migration
Post by: alessandro on August 20, 2013, 01:27:51 PM
Thanks for the hint, then I could try to experiment with even higher GI and AA settings, and see what comes out. But I'll first check if there is a way to create a custom shader that allows to have more distinguished shading along hair strands.
Title: Re: Ice Age Migration
Post by: yossam on August 20, 2013, 01:36:25 PM
You wouldn't consider a plug-in for Poser would you?


You could probably make a small fortune..................
Title: Re: Ice Age Migration
Post by: Oshyan on August 20, 2013, 03:29:17 PM
Impressive result! Very heavy objects indeed, but the output speaks for itself.

Ryan's tip about using "outside the slider" settings is a good one, somewhat for render quality (but hint: don't bother going above the slider max of 0.8 for detail unless you have a really good reason), but more particularly for many other settings in other shaders and nodes. Literally every input accepts values outside the standard range. An interesting example of this is color values above 1, or very the very high light intensity values that are needed for localized lights, luminosity values for surfaces, etc.

Anyway, if this is the stuff you're producing after just a few weeks, I can't wait to see where you go from here!

- Oshyan
Title: Re: Ice Age Migration
Post by: alessandro on August 20, 2013, 05:04:01 PM
Thanks for the hints and I'm glad you liked the render Oshyan!
Title: Re: Ice Age Migration
Post by: Dune on August 21, 2013, 02:14:22 AM
Can you import obj's in DAZ studio Pro Beta (free) and use your plugin to fur them? That would be an interesting option.
Title: Re: Ice Age Migration
Post by: mhaze on August 21, 2013, 04:04:21 AM
Yes you can Dune.  You can even instance .objs onto .objs
Title: Re: Ice Age Migration
Post by: Dune on August 21, 2013, 10:58:12 AM
Thanks Mick.
Title: Re: Ice Age Migration
Post by: otakar on August 21, 2013, 11:49:46 AM
That's fantastic, nice to see a non-plastic looking animal rendered with TG :)
Title: Re: Ice Age Migration
Post by: alessandro on August 23, 2013, 07:01:25 AM
Quote from: yossam on August 20, 2013, 01:36:25 PM
You wouldn't consider a plug-in for Poser would you?


You could probably make a small fortune..................

We are indeed considering to port it to Poser.
Title: Re: Ice Age Migration
Post by: alessandro on August 23, 2013, 07:01:41 AM
Quote from: otakar on August 21, 2013, 11:49:46 AM
That's fantastic, nice to see a non-plastic looking animal rendered with TG :)

Thanks a lot  :)
Title: Re: Ice Age Migration
Post by: bobbystahr on January 25, 2014, 03:36:54 AM
Fine work in TG3 for early days...can't wait to see where you take it. Having living creatures goes a long way in creating the full illusion.
Title: Re: Ice Age Migration
Post by: Jonathan on January 25, 2014, 02:45:33 PM
What a stunning piece of work! With my limited capabilities using TG3, the so called shiny fur didn't even register....the landscape is super...the whole feeling is of a Northern Europe encased in ice. Super!
Title: Re: Ice Age Migration
Post by: Bjur on January 26, 2014, 04:16:12 PM
I'm late but all thumbs up alessandro!
Title: Re: Ice Age Migration
Post by: alessandro on January 26, 2014, 06:51:42 PM
Thanks a lot folks, really appreciated!