Planetside Software Forums

General => Image Sharing => Topic started by: Dune on October 25, 2013, 02:40:43 AM

Title: Underwater
Post by: Dune on October 25, 2013, 02:40:43 AM
Just an intermezzo, checking out if upside down lake still works. The only problem I have is that the blue sky is not very visible, probably because it's much too distant.
Title: Re: Underwater
Post by: kaedorg on October 25, 2013, 02:46:43 AM
Never tried this upside down but i like the result

Great underwater scenery
Title: Re: Underwater
Post by: masonspappy on October 25, 2013, 03:22:39 AM
This is well done.  The only thing that stands out to me is that objects blur and fade quickly underwater, as they recede from the camera (looking at the fish)
Title: Re: Underwater
Post by: Dune on October 25, 2013, 10:08:41 AM
Blurring crossed my mind, so I might pick that suggestion up. Too many fish anyway, it could be more subtle.
Title: Re: Underwater
Post by: masonspappy on October 25, 2013, 10:25:28 AM
I was hoping for mermaids
;D ;D
Title: Re: Underwater
Post by: gregtee on October 25, 2013, 10:43:15 AM
Try pointing the camera up and see if you get the Snell's Window effect. 
Title: Re: Underwater
Post by: choronr on October 25, 2013, 02:48:48 PM
Don't see many images like this; and, the theme has many possibilities - like underwater ruins and sunken ships.

Good one Ulco.
Title: Re: Underwater
Post by: Dune on October 26, 2013, 09:16:35 AM
Thanks.
Title: Re: Underwater
Post by: cyphyr on October 26, 2013, 09:40:07 AM
Nicely done, less fish was a good choice.
Title: Re: Underwater
Post by: gregtee on October 26, 2013, 10:46:05 AM
Im seeing the Snell's Window effect now, which is cool. Is this done by simply raising the level of the lake over a standard scene until you get the effect you're looking for?  I suspect that with the ability to break out your render layers that one could make a pretty convincing underwater scene now.  This is interesting to me as I've rendered quite a few underwater scenes over the years professionally but never with terrain software.  The possibilities are potentially endless given some thought.

Title: Re: Underwater
Post by: TheBadger on October 26, 2013, 12:32:08 PM
I like the last one.
Title: Re: Underwater
Post by: choronr on October 26, 2013, 01:23:58 PM
This is impressive, a whole new world to explore.
Title: Re: Underwater
Post by: Bjur on October 26, 2013, 11:37:58 PM
Awesome mood/atmosphere in the second picture!

Just the plants are looking too big (like the fishes) against the boat in that low deep or the sunken boat seems too small right now Ulco (for me at last).
But I don't know the plants or fishes original sizes and their natural living space in all I have to admit.

Pls push and tune that one further as it may end up in an super under water reference scene..  :D
Title: Re: Underwater
Post by: Dune on October 27, 2013, 04:14:19 AM
I would like to see one or two of your underwater scenes, Greg. And this isn't done like you said. I don't think it'll work that way in TG. I had to fake it with a warped simple shape above the water (which I took out again here).

The boat, by the way, is quite small (5m), so for me the fish look quite alright. And as I said earlier, I like to check out stuff, and don't pay much attention to reality then. Just threw in some plants to make it nicer. If I were commissioned to do a reality scene, I'll certainly do that the way it should be done and do more research on relative sizes and species, etc.
Title: Re: Underwater
Post by: Jo Kariboo on October 27, 2013, 08:17:36 AM
The number 2 are very nice !!!
Title: Re: Underwater
Post by: mhaze on October 27, 2013, 09:23:38 AM
Great! the last one is superb.  I love the swell and the touch of red.
Title: Re: Underwater
Post by: Dune on October 27, 2013, 12:56:15 PM
I've taken it a step further, but the bubbles don't work like I wanted. Another one is now rendering.
Title: Re: Underwater
Post by: choronr on October 27, 2013, 07:02:40 PM
This set up is ideal. Like the bubble work here; and, looking forward to seeing your next.
Title: Re: Underwater
Post by: archonforest on October 27, 2013, 08:19:11 PM
Dune u are developing something great here! I really like how the water looks and the light that comes trough ;)
Title: Re: Underwater
Post by: Dune on October 28, 2013, 02:54:22 AM
And now without the bubbles.
Title: Re: Underwater
Post by: Dune on October 28, 2013, 12:24:05 PM
Going too fast for you?  :o
Title: Re: Underwater
Post by: choronr on October 28, 2013, 12:34:11 PM
Very realistic. And no, not to fast for me. Wish I had your horsepower.
Title: Re: Underwater
Post by: gregtee on October 28, 2013, 01:05:30 PM
here's a link to a commercial I did some time back for a Motorola phone.  There's two shots near the end of the spot that are underwater environments. 

link here:  http://www.ericbarba.com/Pebl.html

Here's another one for a Nike commercial, done around the same time period:  http://www.ericbarba.com/Speedchain.html

I did the jellyfish shots at the start of the spots. 

All of these were done in Lightwave at the time.  The key to doing this kind of work is having the ability to break out renders into component layers and then compositing them back together in a manner that achieves the look you're after.  Your renders would suggest everything needed to do this kind of work is now available in TG, but like any software package I've used it's really much easier to get the effect with component layers than trying to get it all int he main render as there's so many variables involved with this type of work, and having the individual layers helps considerably. 

-Greg

Title: Re: Underwater
Post by: Kadri on October 28, 2013, 05:38:00 PM

Very nice images Ulco.I liked the environment in the -v4-3.jpg image especially.

Those commercials does look great Greg!
Title: Re: Underwater
Post by: Dune on October 29, 2013, 03:32:49 AM
Unfortunately I only get some black screens from your links, Greg. USA may be a little too far from here after all  >:( But thanks anyway!
Title: Re: Underwater
Post by: yossam on October 29, 2013, 04:06:43 AM
Impressive.  :)
Title: Re: Underwater
Post by: Mahnmut on October 29, 2013, 07:43:09 AM
Really beautiful underwater scenes here!
And a great improvement from the first version, that already was not bad.
The only thing that differs significantly from what I remember from diving is the colour.
In my personal impression everything fades into blue/bluegreen very fast with distance and depth.
I tried to reproduce this effect some time ago:

http://www.planetside.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,2544.msg25184.html#msg25184

In every other aspect, your pics are much more realistic and beautiful!

My best Regards,
Jan

And Gregtee, impressive clips!
Title: Re: Underwater
Post by: Jo Kariboo on October 29, 2013, 10:12:46 AM
Great achievement done with great talent !!!  :)
Title: Re: Underwater
Post by: gregtee on October 29, 2013, 10:25:27 AM
" In my personal impression everything fades into blue/bluegreen very fast with distance and depth."

This is exactly correct.  Water attenuates color over distance, sucking out red first, then green.  This is why underwater photography looks the way it does.  Add in the murk to add depth and you'll quickly get something that feels like you're under the ocean. 

The reason I was saying this seems possible now in TG is because of the render layers.  Breaking out a render into component layers and using the depth passes as matte layers to remove the red channel over the depth of the matte and in similar but lesser amount to the green channel will instantly add a lot more realism. 

I've included a screen grab from one of the spots here, though this still really doesn't do it justice. The moving frames display it all much better

Title: Re: Underwater
Post by: gregtee on October 29, 2013, 11:23:37 AM
I was trying to make a simple underwater scene and I can't for the life of me figure out the water plane.  I saw a thread about taking a plane, turning it upside down by putting negative values on the a,b edge and applying the water shader but no dice. 

Is there an example file somewhere one can look at to get started?

-Greg

Title: Re: Underwater
Post by: Dune on October 29, 2013, 11:46:14 AM
I used a sphere with a negative radius, and thanks for the screengrab.
Title: Re: Underwater
Post by: inkydigit on October 29, 2013, 04:29:05 PM
woah Ulco!
Aquagen!
:)
these are all looking really good!
Jason
Title: Re: Underwater
Post by: ares2101 on October 30, 2013, 06:52:16 PM
These are fantastic!  I would love to see a basic outline of how to do this sort of thing.  I've long wanted to do some underwater scenes, but never quite got the hang of it from example files I've come across on the forums.
Title: Re: Underwater
Post by: Dune on October 31, 2013, 03:24:47 AM
Short explanation and then it's up to you: make a terrain (no need for far mountains), with low thick soft cloud (even without PF), maximized at water level you intend by distribution shader, and maybe a distance shader for additional control. I colored it quite dark. For god rays, make another cloud a bit higher up above water level, and experiment whether it does any good. I used small fractals and quite strong contrast. The sun needs to be in front of you for star-like rays.
The water is a sphere, same size as the planet, but with a minus before radius, no shadows, and as a surface I use a surface shader without color. In that, you raise the water level by the displacement offset. And then add you water shader as a child to this surface shader. Thats basically it.
Title: Re: Underwater
Post by: ares2101 on October 31, 2013, 04:02:57 PM
Quote from: Dune on October 31, 2013, 03:24:47 AM
Short explanation and then it's up to you: make a terrain (no need for far mountains), with low thick soft cloud (even without PF), maximized at water level you intend by distribution shader, and maybe a distance shader for additional control. I colored it quite dark. For god rays, make another cloud a bit higher up above water level, and experiment whether it does any good. I used small fractals and quite strong contrast. The sun needs to be in front of you for star-like rays.
The water is a sphere, same size as the planet, but with a minus before radius, no shadows, and as a surface I use a surface shader without color. In that, you raise the water level by the displacement offset. And then add you water shader as a child to this surface shader. Thats basically it.

Thanks.  I'll have to try this sometime.
Title: Re: Underwater
Post by: cyphyr on November 06, 2013, 05:40:26 AM
Easier option is to use an inverted sphere set to the radius of the earth.
Title: Re: Underwater
Post by: Dune on November 06, 2013, 05:43:55 AM
Isn't that what I wrote down?
Title: Re: Underwater
Post by: cyphyr on November 06, 2013, 05:46:57 AM
It absolutely is :)
I was answering the post at the bottom of page 2, hadn't seen your answer at the time.

Title: Re: Underwater
Post by: Dune on November 06, 2013, 05:51:15 AM
Happens occasionally to me as well.
Title: Re: Underwater
Post by: Dune on November 12, 2013, 03:02:06 AM
Regarding the discussion on Richard's thread; I experimented a little with the use a of a saturation node in a population to get the more distant instances another color. As you see, it works.
Title: Re: Underwater
Post by: cyphyr on November 12, 2013, 04:32:48 AM
Ooh very effective. Rendering now but I'll give this a go on the next iteration.
Title: Re: Underwater
Post by: TheBadger on November 12, 2013, 12:15:06 PM
Cool!
Title: Re: Underwater
Post by: choronr on November 12, 2013, 08:43:26 PM
This is a priceless tip for underwater scenes.
Title: Re: Underwater
Post by: gregtee on November 12, 2013, 09:42:59 PM
Now can you get this to attenuate color channels and not just saturation, because that's what you really want. 

-Greg

Title: Re: Underwater
Post by: Dune on November 13, 2013, 03:21:29 AM
Should be possible. Here I decreased saturation, and added a bluegreen color at the same time to environment and the objects over distance. With more gradients (exact distances and colors) it should be possible to make it how it's supposed to be, but that was not my goal. Not now anyway.