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General => Image Sharing => Topic started by: Gannaingh on December 01, 2013, 01:14:53 PM

Title: Avalanche Lake - Final
Post by: Gannaingh on December 01, 2013, 01:14:53 PM
Avalanche Lake is a little old lake sitting in Glacier National Park. I've never seen it personally, but the google images of it make it seem like a lovely place, so I thought I'd have a go at it in Terragen. There's lots of little improvements to be made: water coloring, population instance placement (btw Planetside, the instance editing feature is amazing), a bit more noticeable color variation in the trees, etc. It's also a little sharp, in my opinion, so I'll soften it just a bit.

Title: Re: Avalanche Lake
Post by: Oshyan on December 02, 2013, 05:02:18 PM
Good start. But I don't get a really good idea of the scale, perhaps mainly because of the water, not sure. A different perspective or lighting might help.

Glacier NP is a wonderful place, I haven't been there since I was 13 but would love to return.

- Oshyan
Title: Re: Avalanche Lake
Post by: Gannaingh on December 03, 2013, 10:51:43 PM
I see what you mean about the sense of scale and I think you might be right about the water being the problem. It is a shallow lake so the transparency, despite being only 4 meters, looks deeper than it should when compared to the trees. I'll check out other POV's and lighting setups to see if that will help.
Title: Re: Avalanche Lake - New POV
Post by: Gannaingh on December 09, 2013, 10:27:38 PM
OK, pretty much everything has been changed except the base terrain DEM. I think it's much improved over the previous version. I'm not the biggest fan of the amount of snow on the far mountain top, I think there's too much of it. I love the soft reflections on the water, they turned out better than I thought the would. Render time, however, is a long.
Title: Re: Avalanche Lake - New POV
Post by: choronr on December 09, 2013, 10:33:57 PM
Beautiful work!
Title: Re: Avalanche Lake - New POV
Post by: yossam on December 09, 2013, 10:36:54 PM
I agree about the snow............your eyes go straight to it. IMO the right side of the mountain could use a little reflected light. Overall much better.  :)
Title: Re: Avalanche Lake - New POV
Post by: TheBadger on December 10, 2013, 12:15:06 AM
Scale is fine I think. Just need some birds and maybe a fisherman in a boat to drive the effect home, things that are more relatable.

I agree about the snow at the top stealing the POF. But if you look to the right the snow there is actually helping a lot. Play with shadows from Clouds to gain command of the light or move the sun... Probably both.

IMO, you approach your renders more from a photographers perspective than say a painters or illustrators. This makes sense to me. But probably the best way to do a render is a mix of the photographer and the painter. Keep your realism but add the drama of a painter. If you can keep this realism but add the control of a luminist to the lighting, then I would say you have reached a master level of this software.

Just a thought.
Title: Re: Avalanche Lake - New POV
Post by: kaedorg on December 10, 2013, 03:07:44 AM
Great POV here. I agree about the snow.
Title: Re: Avalanche Lake - New POV
Post by: Dune on December 10, 2013, 03:14:14 AM
Yeah, this is a much nicer POV. Very nice ocverall, but I also agree about the snow. It also gives this white patch on the water, which distracts. What causes the long render time? Probably the render subdiv settings. So if you only make the frontal water transparent, and the further water only reflective, you gain time.
Title: Re: Avalanche Lake - New POV
Post by: Gannaingh on December 10, 2013, 11:49:47 AM
Thank you all. Here's my first attempt at getting some more details in the shadow areas. I used a fill light and adjusted the gamma and contrast settings. The rock looks nicer, but the trees seem to "glow" in the shadowy areas. Please don't mind the blue holes in the terrain geometry, I didn't bother to get rid of those this time around. I think I might cheat a little and make the rock surface slightly luminous and ditch the fill light.

The Badger: You're exactly right. I do approach terragen as a 'photography' tool. Most of my pictures are inspired by pictures of real places and I try to replicate them as best as I can. I unintentionally try and stay away from too 'painterly' images. I've seen too many over the top Vue images lol. But, I agree it is something that I can work on.

Dune: The long render time is caused by the soft reflections I have on the water. On the image attached to this post you can see how a regular water shader looks in comparison. I tried getting softer reflections with a regular water shader, but so far I've just switched to the reflective shader.
Title: Re: Avalanche Lake - New POV
Post by: EdBardet on December 10, 2013, 04:04:15 PM
If you are going to Glacier - better hustle - we were there a couple of years ago and things are melting fast.
Ed
Title: Re: Avalanche Lake - New POV
Post by: Kadri on December 10, 2013, 09:02:26 PM

Looks nice!
Title: Re: Avalanche Lake - New POV
Post by: choronr on December 10, 2013, 09:32:43 PM
Much improved with the thinning of the snow; and, the improved light on the right side.
Title: Re: Avalanche Lake - New POV
Post by: Antoine on December 11, 2013, 01:29:48 AM
This is an impressive render!
Title: Re: Avalanche Lake - New POV
Post by: kaedorg on December 11, 2013, 01:46:38 AM
much improved for the snow and light. but i prefer the 2nd POV.
Title: Re: Avalanche Lake - New POV
Post by: Cocateho on December 11, 2013, 10:57:52 PM
All 3 of these are awesome, last one takes the cake though  :D
Title: Re: Avalanche Lake - 4
Post by: Gannaingh on December 12, 2013, 11:39:34 AM
Here's a crop to show of what I've come up with for getting some more detail in those dark shadowy areas. When used in moderation, I think, the rock luminosity can give a nice impression of ambient light in poorly lit areas. I don't want to go overboard with it since the DEM I'm working from has a few vertical faces in the terrain that won't look that great if they are too visible.

What do you think? Too much rock luminosity, too little, just right?

Title: Re: Avalanche Lake - 4
Post by: yossam on December 12, 2013, 12:00:41 PM
Looks good to me............. :)
Title: Re: Avalanche Lake - 4
Post by: choronr on December 12, 2013, 12:05:31 PM
Very good. Looking forward to seeing the final.
Title: Re: Avalanche Lake - 4
Post by: Antoine on December 12, 2013, 12:10:39 PM
Personally, i think It does add realism in the dark shadow area.
By the way, did you add some procedural displacement to the dem ?
Title: Re: Avalanche Lake - 4
Post by: Gannaingh on December 12, 2013, 03:30:44 PM
I'm glad it looks good to you, often my monitor shows things much lighter than other people see.

Antoine, there is a very small amount of procedural displacement. I have a single power fractal with low displacement to give some variation to the bottom of the lake so it isn't so flat. Besides that the only procedural displacement is some fractal displacement within the heightfield load node itself.
Title: Re: Avalanche Lake - 4
Post by: Oshyan on December 12, 2013, 09:37:22 PM
Agreed, the thinner snow is an improvement, as is the new PoV. I think I might like the vertical format version better (the latest), even though I know this is just a crop, hehe. As for the light on rocks, looks good, but I wonder if you could try increasing "bounce to the ounce" in GI SD (assuming you have it enabled).

- Oshyan
Title: Re: Avalanche Lake - 4
Post by: Gannaingh on December 13, 2013, 01:49:59 AM
As Oshyan suggested I did some testing with the Bounce to the Ounce setting. It turns out that, at least in this particular scene, it doesn't make any difference. I tested values ranging from .5 to 1.5, but was not able to notice any improvement from one to the next. I've included some crop renders that I tested but there isn't much to look at since it's just three nearly identical images.

Title: Re: Avalanche Lake - 4
Post by: yossam on December 13, 2013, 01:56:15 AM
I have used as high as 8.............. :)
Title: Re: Avalanche Lake - 4
Post by: Oshyan on December 13, 2013, 02:03:56 AM
Fair enough, it was worth a shot though. :)  Oh, but if you still had your fill lights in there, I'm not sure it is a fully proper test. Then again this is probably when Matt chimes in and tells me Bounce to the ounce isn't going to help in this case as the distances are too large or something. ;)

- Oshyan
Title: Re: Avalanche Lake - 4
Post by: choronr on December 13, 2013, 10:36:57 AM
What and where is bounce to the ounce?
Title: Re: Avalanche Lake - 4
Post by: j meyer on December 13, 2013, 11:09:02 AM
Hey Bob,you'll find it on the render node under GI settings -> GI surface details.
Title: Re: Avalanche Lake - 4
Post by: choronr on December 13, 2013, 11:52:07 AM
Thanks j meyer, wasn't familiar with the nickname: bounce to the ounce.
Title: Re: Avalanche Lake - 4
Post by: DannyG on December 13, 2013, 02:50:13 PM
Excellent work on this, rock mats are very very well done
Title: Re: Avalanche Lake - 5
Post by: Gannaingh on December 14, 2013, 06:11:17 PM
This is probably the last crop render teaser before I render the final. I'm thinking that I might reduce the softness in the reflection shader to give just a hint more sharpness to the reflection of the trees on the water.

Title: Re: Avalanche Lake - 5
Post by: Antoine on December 15, 2013, 01:53:54 AM
I think this is already an exceptional artwork. Perhaps just add some dead trees or automn colored trees here and there but as I said it is already a great photorealistic image.
Where did you get this kind of alpine DEM ?
Title: Re: Avalanche Lake - 5
Post by: pclavett on December 15, 2013, 08:36:05 AM
Amazing Work !
Paul
Title: Re: Avalanche Lake - Final
Post by: Gannaingh on December 23, 2013, 11:11:16 AM
Here is the final. It turns out that the white reflections in the water were never from the snow. They are reflections of the clouds above the mountains. I tried to find a seed that wouldn't show them, but eventually I got lazy and just went with them. I suppose I could have just disabled the clouds... oh well.

Antoine, I get just about all of my DEM's from http://viewer.nationalmap.gov/viewer/. It has good resolution, and full coverage over the continental U.S. I usually just look on google maps for a interesting location and then download the DEM for that place.

Here it is:
http://gannaingh32.deviantart.com/art/Avalanche-Lake-421659468
Title: Re: Avalanche Lake - Final
Post by: TheBadger on December 23, 2013, 11:56:39 AM
Real nice Darth. I noticed you got your self a pretty good portfolio on deviant too.
Title: Re: Avalanche Lake - Final
Post by: Dune on December 23, 2013, 12:17:56 PM
That is a very good render, with an enormous sense of depth. Terrific! Hardly discernable from a photo also.
Title: Re: Avalanche Lake - Final
Post by: Antoine on December 28, 2013, 10:33:47 AM
It's an amazing realistic rendering! Thanks also for the DEM info.
Title: Re: Avalanche Lake - Final
Post by: kaedorg on December 28, 2013, 11:31:02 AM
First : Thanks for DEM info

Second : Beautiful photorealistic render. Outstanding work.
Title: Re: Avalanche Lake - Final
Post by: Saurav on December 28, 2013, 11:58:52 PM
This is quite photo-realistic, you have nailed the colours and atmo.