Hello to all here at this Forum,
i´ve detected a strange deportment when loading a scene. It takes 45 seconds to load!
Also the Hard Drive starts to get very active. The GUI also disapears for 45 seconds and then pops up.
Anyone has this same issue?
Peter
Hmmmm..I as well have loading issues. When I load anything, .tgo, .obj or a previous .tgd, TG3 hangs until I click on the title bar and/or in one of the panes...and has since I first installed it. I've been thinking maybe it's time for a fresh install of Win 7...is yours an older install...? may be your problem as well.
Where are you storing your files? I have TG3 installed on the C: drive but all my files are on an external drive connected to a USB port (for good reasons I won't go into here) and loading them is slower than if I stored everything on my C: drive.
Does this happen with *any* (every) scene you load, or just particular ones? Are there any large objects, terrains, or textures in what you're trying to load? Does TG3 start quickly with the default scene?
- Oshyan
For me it's all scenes and models and TG2 has also started exhibiting slow loading so for me it's fresh install time I think.
I've got TG on C and my stuff on H, so heavy tgd's take some time to load. Sometimes hanging with the GUI already open, sometimes in the splashscreen. And occasionally so long that I think it has crashed, but just need a little more patience. Perhaps a loading bar would be a good addition, or a percentage, or just something moving, so you know it's not frozen.
It´s a fresh installation and on drive E is less data then on drive C.
This happens with every Terragen 3 format and Terragen 2.5.5 Format. Windows 7 runs fine for me. Other programs dont have that loading issue.
Dont know what this is. :(
This issue i dont have with Terragen 2.5.5
Ok, i´ve fixed it! Have deinstalled both Terragen Versions 2 and 3.
I think both programs dont like each other in the registry? ;)
So i put Terragen 3 in another File Folder and then it worked fine for me.
Terragen 2 has tons of registry entries :-/ Had to delete this manualy.
But thanks to all for your quick response this shows me again that the support from Planetside and the Forum is awesome! :)
Glad to hear you resolved it. We do generally recommend uninstalling Terragen 2 before installing Terragen 3, although they can technically co-exist, as long as you accept the default install directory which should be different than Terragen 2.
- Oshyan
So do you think Oshyan, that if I uninstalled both versions and installed TG2 in a different place they'd both run better? Be easier than trying a fresh install of Win7.
If you ever installed TG3 in the *same directory* as TG2, that was definitely not the right approach. But the defaults are to install *to different directories*. So it already tries to accomplish what you're suggesting, in other words if you accepted the path defaults on the install to begin with, then redoing it won't help. The problem is there are other things besides install path, for example file associations, and environment variables, which can cause problems with multiple installs. We really recommend only have 1 version installed at a time.
If you really want to run multiple versions the best way is to *copy the entire directory contents* of one install (Terragen 2, for example) to a new folder, then *uninstall* the old version, and finally install the new version. The new one (TG3) becomes the default and has file system associations, while you can run the old one just from the copy of the folder, and it should not then have any file system or environment variable associations.
- Oshyan
Thanks man, but from the signs I think it's time for a reinstall of Win7 and an update in general to all sundry drivers....maybe a new video card as well.
Yes, I've experienced the same loading problems. Uninstalled TG2, cleaned the registry, still no luck. I plan to do a Win7 OS reinstall on an SSD soon and see if that helps. (I've been getting weird USB-related problems, too, which adds to the incentive.)
Are you guys feeling like there's a bug here? We definitely want to look into it if it's something that could be messed up in TG, but so far I'm not really seeing a pattern or anything that could explain this. And certainly it's not something we've been able to reproduce thus far.=
- Oshyan
The only issues that I have:
1. When opening a previously saved .tgd it takes a while to load. (30-45 seconds)
2. When loading a population or object for the first time (30-45 seconds). All loads after the first one are very quick.
3. When saving a .tgd for the first time (again 30-45 seconds). All saves after the first are also very quick. If you try to do anything b4 it actually saves the program will crash.
All data is on the same drive.
Not now but I did at first. I'm going to put aside some time for a fresh OS install and after that I'll be better able to say.
Yossam, does this *always* happen, no matter how complex the scene, no matter how big the object, etc?
- Oshyan
Always............to me it acts like it is accessing the database for the library. I may be wrong. Wouldn't be the 1st time. ;)
I'm not certain this is the case, but the Library should not be loaded unless you actually open it. I don't see any mention of it in the application start log when you run the CLI version.
What are your system specs?
- Oshyan
3770k slightly O.C., 16 G ram, Win7 64 bit.
What you're experience is... truly bizarre. You don't see lags in any other applications, do you? Do you have any other apps that deal with large files, or large numbers of files on load or anything? Heck, TG isn't even that demanding in that area...
Have you checked your system log for anything unusual?
- Oshyan
About the only other app that I use large files with is Poser. And it has not caused any abnormal behavior. Will check the system log.............let you know shortly.
From yesterday.................I forgot to wait on the save.
Faulting application name: tgd.exe, version: 3.0.10.0, time stamp: 0x524e7f5a
Faulting module name: nvoglv64.DLL, version: 9.18.13.3182, time stamp: 0x5280d8fe
Exception code: 0xc0000005
Fault offset: 0x0000000000e88569
Faulting process id: 0x7d48
Faulting application start time: 0x01cef886127483f7
Faulting application path: C:\Program Files\Planetside Software\Terragen 3\tgd.exe
Faulting module path: C:\Windows\system32\nvoglv64.DLL
Report Id: f67f72cc-647f-11e3-a27a-0014d1257ace
This is from 12/2/13..............don't remember the circumstances.
Faulting application name: tgd.exe, version: 3.0.10.0, time stamp: 0x524e7f5a
Faulting module name: tglib.dll, version: 3.0.10.0, time stamp: 0x524e7e90
Exception code: 0xc0000005
Fault offset: 0x00000000001d6291
Faulting process id: 0x143e8
Faulting application start time: 0x01ceef2739ada6b0
Faulting application path: C:\Program Files\Planetside Software\Terragen 3\tgd.exe
Faulting module path: C:\Program Files\Planetside Software\Terragen 3\tglib.dll
Report Id: a11d8310-5b2b-11e3-b52d-0014d1257ace
Well, one of those is related to the Nvidia graphics driver. It would be surprising if that had an effect on overall load time... When Terragen is loading on first launch, how does it proceed; do you see parts of the UI after a short time, but it is not responsive fo 30-45 seconds; do you only see the splash screen for quite a while, and then the UI comes up quickly? etc.
- Oshyan
The splash screen stays up for 2-3 seconds then the full UI comes up. Confusing you more?
No, just more info to consider. The then comes up relatively quickly but is not responsive for ~30 seconds?
- Oshyan
No..............it is responsive until you do one of the 3 things I listed in the previous post.
Ah, ok. So a couple things.
First, when you say "2. When loading a population or object for the first time (30-45 seconds). All loads after the first one are very quick.", do you mean that "all loads after the first" *of the same object/population* are fast? Or do you mean instead that the first time you load *any* object or create *any* population it is slow, but *then* when you create any other population or load any other object (not necessarily the same as the first object loaded), then it is faster? If it's the latter, that's quite interesting...
One thing you might try is loading tgdcli.exe and then look at what the log output shows when you perform one of those 3 actions.
- Oshyan
It is the latter. Any object or population that is loaded first takes 30-45 seconds. "Any" object or population loaded after that loads within a second or two depending on how big the file is. I will try what you suggested and let you know. :)
Veeeery weird (to me anyway; it might make more sense to Matt or Jo, I'll have them look at this thread). Definitely check out the CLI output, and in particular see if it appears to hang or take a particularly long time on one specific thing. For comparison, I'm running an SSD on an otherwise similar machine. TG3 loads in less than 5 seconds. When I add an object, the load time seems to depend very much on the size of the object, which makes sense. A ~30MB object takes a couple seconds, a ~225MB one takes closer to 10. Both are being loaded from a non-SSD drive. Loading one before the other doesn't seem to change the load time of subsequent objects.
- Oshyan
Ok, here we go.......................
Loaded tgdcli.exe
1. Loaded one population................29 seconds
2. Loaded 2nd population(different)...........4 seconds
3. Saved the tgd and immediately hit render................no crash. Before it would have crashed.
4. Closed Terragen and re-started normally.
5. Opened the saved tgd from above................the UI disappeared (white screen) except for the buttons at the top. UI reappeared after 20 seconds.
No log output.
The "log output" is on the console window (CLI window, black) that shows up when you start tgdcli.exe. You have to watch it manually.
- Oshyan
There are no errors...............do you need to see the log?
I'm not expecting to see errors. I'm more curious if you can identify particular items (lines in the log) it takes a long time on, something like that. You can send the log if you have a way of doing so (technically you can pipe the console output to a file, but I don't recall the specific instructions). I'm not sure the log itself will help, it's the timing I'm more interested in, which isn't always recorded in the log, only for certain things like render time, etc.
- Oshyan
I reloaded the tgd and where the lag happened was:
destroying camera (3963289232)
destroying render (3963288944)
between these two lines.
Hope that is what you need. :)
Very interesting. How about when you load an object?
Thanks for doing all this testing btw. Hopefully it will help us figure this out!
- Oshyan
TGOReader: Attempting to open file: (file path)
ReadXML: Attempting to read byte stream
Between these two lines.
Great, thanks for taking a look at that. Now we'll see if the dev team has any ideas...
- Oshyan
No problem...................hopefully it will be of some use. :)
Hello, its me again :(
The strange behavior is back! Every time i load the library or a file it takes 45 seconds.
But i´ve seen i´m not the only one. Haven´t visit my thread for a while cause i thought i´m the only one with this issue.
This behavior is anoying me :(
Regards
Peter
For me, when it loads a .tgd I get the UI and it hangs and stays hung until I click anywhere around the titles bar when the spinning circle happens(INTEL not MAC)and it slowly finds the project.
Hi,
I think there are few different issues here and I'm still trying to figure out what some of them are. However the behaviour mentioned where the first population, projects etc. takes longer to load or the first save takes a while is simply because the Library is being loaded. The Library is loaded the first time it needs to be accessed.
You could probably change this if you unchecked all the checkbox options in the Library preferences panel. The trade-off with that is you will need to add all items to the Library manually.
I could add a preference for the Library to be loaded at application startup. This would mean that app startup took longer every time but that there would be no delays when opening projects or objects etc. subsequently.
Regards,
Jo
Quote from: Oshyan on December 15, 2013, 10:04:37 PM
I'm not expecting to see errors. I'm more curious if you can identify particular items (lines in the log) it takes a long time on, something like that. You can send the log if you have a way of doing so (technically you can pipe the console output to a file, but I don't recall the specific instructions). I'm not sure the log itself will help, it's the timing I'm more interested in, which isn't always recorded in the log, only for certain things like render time, etc.
- Oshyan
I know to pipe the log file is done like this (on Windows) tgdcli > drive:\log.txt The tgdcli.exe reference is located off the Terragen install folder in the Docs folder and called win_command_line.txt so it would be "tgdcli options > log.txt".
Quote from: jo on December 30, 2013, 06:30:14 PM
Hi,
I think there are few different issues here and I'm still trying to figure out what some of them are. However the behaviour mentioned where the first population, projects etc. takes longer to load or the first save takes a while is simply because the Library is being loaded. The Library is loaded the first time it needs to be accessed.
You could probably change this if you unchecked all the checkbox options in the Library preferences panel. The trade-off with that is you will need to add all items to the Library manually.
I could add a preference for the Library to be loaded at application startup. This would mean that app startup took longer every time but that there would be no delays when opening projects or objects etc. subsequently.
Regards,
Jo
Hi Jo,
i´ve already unchecked all item in the Library setting but the huge loading time is still there.
I dont know if that loading time of 30-45 seconds is right.
This happens only one time per session. When i open up the Library or loading a file directly without the Library. After that all went well, till i restart Terragen.... A new installation hasn´t helped me out of this mess. Hmmmmm....
The hardest way is to setup a new Win 7 installation....but all programs do their job all is fine except Terragen.
Regards,
Peter
Have set up my machine with a formated clean Windows Version and now all Errors are gone! :)
Thank you.
Peter
Good to know, so I guess it was a fundamental system problem of some kind. But I wonder what still... Anyway, at least it's solved. :)
- Oshyan
Hi,
Quote from: Oshyan on January 02, 2014, 01:57:22 AM
Good to know, so I guess it was a fundamental system problem of some kind. But I wonder what still... Anyway, at least it's solved. :)
Well, the other alternative is that on the new machine there is no Library so it's not being loaded. My next suggestion was going to be to delete the Library database and see what happened.
Regards,
Jo
Hi Jo, i can tell you.
Whether i´ve loaded it via load button or loaded it from the library it was the same problem.
Takes a huge amount of time to load. Strange to say but all other programs went fine excerpt Terragen.
Best Regards
Peter
Quote from: jo on January 02, 2014, 04:20:13 PM
Hi,
Quote from: Oshyan on January 02, 2014, 01:57:22 AM
Good to know, so I guess it was a fundamental system problem of some kind. But I wonder what still... Anyway, at least it's solved. :)
Well, the other alternative is that on the new machine there is no Library so it's not being loaded. My next suggestion was going to be to delete the Library database and see what happened.
Regards,
Jo
Hi Peter,
There are two parts to the Library. There is the Library database and the Library window. The Library database needs to be loaded the first time it is needed. The Library window is kind of like the user interface for the Library database, but it isn't the "whole Library". There is also a lot of book keeping and such which goes on behind the scenes with the Library database. For example when you load an object via the Load button and if you have the preference to automatically add objects to the Library turned on then TG needs to load the Library database to do some things with it.
Yossam was describing a situation where he had delays the first time he did something like load an object but no delays after that. This is almost certainly because the Library database is being loaded. Now I can't say that I've noticed the Library database takes a particularly long time to load, even with all the Xfrog plants I have and a bunch of other stuff in it. For some reason it seems to be slow on some people's computers and I don't know why that is. However it does appear to be something which only happens once per session. That doesn't seem like a big problem to me, although it would be better if it was quicker.
It seems like you might be seeing the same thing. It's not very clear but it seems to me you were also having the delay only when the first object was loaded. Is this correct?
I was going to suggest deleting the Library database because that's what's taking the time to load. If you delete it then it will be empty. If you turn off all those preferences you mentioned then TG won't be adding stuff to it automatically. If the Library database is deleted and you no longer see the delays loading objects etc. then we'll know for sure it was because of the Library database being loaded. This is what's happened with your newly formatted machine (no Library database), although it wasn't necessary to go to all that trouble just to check it out.
Regards,
Jo
Hi Jo,
sorry, but my english is not that good to understand what you mean :-/
As far as i remember i had that issue only once as you have described but i dont understand the differences between the two
types of Library. I´ve tried several ways to avoid this problem but nothing went fine.
One thing was to add no Library and just use the load button via Terragen. I´ve just loaded a small file nothing special
and the loading time was also bad. Takes about 45 seconds. I´ve then loaded another file also via the load button and it worked.
Where is the Library which you have mentioned?
Regards from germany
Peter
Try the following steps:
Go to Edit (menu) then Preferences
Go to Library (left side)
Uncheck all options under "Automatically add these assets to the library"
Uncheck "Add assets to the library when saved"
Click Delete Library Database (bottom-right)
Click OK to save Preferences
Then try loading a file/object again and see if you have the same slow-down.
- Oshyan
Quote from: Oshyan on January 05, 2014, 03:09:16 PM
Try the following steps:
Go to Edit (menu) then Preferences
Go to Library (left side)
Uncheck all options under "Automatically add these assets to the library"
Uncheck "Add assets to the library when saved"
Click Delete Library Database (bottom-right)
Click OK to save Preferences
Then try loading a file/object again and see if you have the same slow-down.
- Oshyan
I just tried this and my load time went way down, d'oh moment for me as it was so obvious...thanks Oshyan
Thanks for the update Bobby, now to figure out why it's so slow for you! You may have given us details of this before, but can you tell us about your system specs? CPU, RAM, hard drive (if you know details), operating system. Also whether you have a realtime antivirus scanner (this could actually be responsible if it's scanning the Library file when Terragen loads it and delaying until it's finished).
- Oshyan
Quote from: Oshyan on January 05, 2014, 03:20:54 PM
Thanks for the update Bobby, now to figure out why it's so slow for you! You may have given us details of this before, but can you tell us about your system specs? CPU, RAM, hard drive (if you know details), operating system. Also whether you have a realtime antivirus scanner (this could actually be responsible if it's scanning the Library file when Terragen loads it and delaying until it's finished).
- Oshyan
I sorta know why now Oshyan...I had a friend help me out some time back with a horrid infection which ultimately required a re-install of Win7. I thought i saw a hiccup in the install but he paid it no mind and I've been using that install. I recently tried to install Imagine3D and it wouldn't as a dll was missing.(Ltfil10n.dll Not Found) To reacquire this dll will mean a new install so I'm waiting till I have some free computer time...hopefully soon as Imagine is my modeling software and I've retirement projects galore I'd like to get to, hee hee hee
Thanks Bobby, I can't see any reason that library load behavior should be slow on that config. Hopefully we can find some commonality in these issues at some point...
- Oshyan
It'll be post re install for me but will post results.
Quote from: Oshyan on January 05, 2014, 03:09:16 PM
Try the following steps:
Go to Edit (menu) then Preferences
Go to Library (left side)
Uncheck all options under "Automatically add these assets to the library"
Uncheck "Add assets to the library when saved"
Click Delete Library Database (bottom-right)
Click OK to save Preferences
Then try loading a file/object again and see if you have the same slow-down.
- Oshyan
Hi Oshyan,
thanks a lot for your answer. Would be fine to do that steps back in the days where i had this issue :)
After reinstalling the machine i´ve no further problems with Terragen and that´s fine for me.
Maybe the tips help Bobbystahr out of his loading behaviour with Terragen.
Thank you so much for your support Oshyan, i appreciate this a lot :)
Best regards
Peter
Quote from: PeterParker on January 08, 2014, 09:42:05 AM
Quote from: Oshyan on January 05, 2014, 03:09:16 PM
Try the following steps:
Go to Edit (menu) then Preferences
Go to Library (left side)
Uncheck all options under "Automatically add these assets to the library"
Uncheck "Add assets to the library when saved"
Click Delete Library Database (bottom-right)
Click OK to save Preferences
Then try loading a file/object again and see if you have the same slow-down.
- Oshyan
Hi Oshyan,
thanks a lot for your answer. Would be fine to do that steps back in the days where i had this issue :)
After reinstalling the machine i´ve no further problems with Terragen and that´s fine for me.
Maybe the tips help Bobbystahr out of his loading behaviour with Terragen.
Thank you so much for your support Oshyan, i appreciate this a lot :)
Best regards
Peter
The loading behaviour is back! After updated all 215 Windows-Updates!
I´ve tried your solution and when i delete the library i can load the scenes via load menue in no time but when i reinstall the library
the issue cccurs again. I think one of the Microshit updates causes this problem :(
Hi Peter,
What do you mean "when i reinstall the library"? Do you mean when you start to add items to the Library again? How many items do you have in your Library roughly?
Are all the files that are referenced by the Library on hard drives that are in your machine? Are any of them stored on a network drive or on some sort of cloud/internet storage?
Regards,
Jo
Quote from: jo on January 20, 2014, 11:31:52 PM
Hi Peter,
What do you mean "when i reinstall the library"? Do you mean when you start to add items to the Library again? How many items do you have in your Library roughly?
Are all the files that are referenced by the Library on hard drives that are in your machine? Are any of them stored on a network drive or on some sort of cloud/internet storage?
Regards,
Jo
Hi Jo,
i have roughly 200 Objects in the Library and they are all on one Harddrive. Terragen is also on the same Harddrive.
Yes, i´ve meant with reinstalling the items to the Library.
I think it must be one of the 215 Updates from Windows which causes the problem.
I cant proof every update if it affects Terragen.
Whats your opinion?
Regards
Peter