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General => Terragen Discussion => Topic started by: choronr on February 03, 2014, 02:04:34 PM

Title: Random clumping of objects re-seed option in populator.
Post by: choronr on February 03, 2014, 02:04:34 PM
A 'Random clumping of objects re-seed option in the Populator' would be a nice feature in some upcoming update is on my wish list.
Title: Re: Random clumping of objects re-seed option in populator.
Post by: Oshyan on February 03, 2014, 04:04:37 PM
I'm not sure what you mean with the "re-seed" part. Right now there is no "clumping" at all (though there is "spacing variation", which is different but may have some conceptual similarities). Doing a normal Random Seed change would give you different results with the same "spacing variation". If you're asking for a *new* "clumping" feature that certainly makes sense though.

- Oshyan
Title: Re: Random clumping of objects re-seed option in populator.
Post by: choronr on February 03, 2014, 04:18:48 PM
Quote from: Oshyan on February 03, 2014, 04:04:37 PM
I'm not sure what you mean with the "re-seed" part. Right now there is no "clumping" at all (though there is "spacing variation", which is different but may have some conceptual similarities). Doing a normal Random Seed change would give you different results with the same "spacing variation". If you're asking for a *new* "clumping" feature that certainly makes sense though.

- Oshyan
Thanks Oshyan; yes, a new clumping feature is what I had in mind - like a separate 'seed' feature where one could try and attain clumps randomly throughout the scene. One would have maintained the original spacing variation; but, would have the option to have a few clumps throughout the population by using a separate seed button..
Title: Re: Random clumping of objects re-seed option in populator.
Post by: Oshyan on February 03, 2014, 04:27:27 PM
Ah, ok. Yes, that's something we'd like to do in the future.

- Oshyan
Title: Re: Random clumping of objects re-seed option in populator.
Post by: choronr on February 03, 2014, 04:46:46 PM
Quote from: Oshyan on February 03, 2014, 04:27:27 PM
Ah, ok. Yes, that's something we'd like to do in the future.

- Oshyan
Thank you. This would be a time saver in lieu of having to add a second population of the same object but with much closer spacing and using the Painted shader.
Title: Re: Random clumping of objects re-seed option in populator.
Post by: jo on February 03, 2014, 05:27:55 PM
Hi Richard,

Have you experimented with using a Power fractal as a density shader? If you use it with small scales and low octaves plus adjusting the colour offsets etc. then you should be able to get a blobby sort of pattern with separate dots that could give a clumpy appearance to the population. I haven't actually tried this but it should work.

Regards,

Jo
Title: Re: Random clumping of objects re-seed option in populator.
Post by: choronr on February 03, 2014, 05:54:05 PM
Quote from: jo on February 03, 2014, 05:27:55 PM
Hi Richard,

Have you experimented with using a Power fractal as a density shader? If you use it with small scales and low octaves plus adjusting the colour offsets etc. then you should be able to get a blobby sort of pattern with separate dots that could give a clumpy appearance to the population. I haven't actually tried this but it should work.

Regards,

Jo

Thanks Jo (its Bob BTW),

I have not tried your suggestion but will look into it. If you try it, be sure to post it here; and, I'll do the same. The tought came to me while thinking of a better transition from a dense population to one that thins out - something that fuzzy zone doesn't always give you.
Title: Re: Random clumping of objects re-seed option in populator.
Post by: jo on February 03, 2014, 06:37:33 PM
Quote from: choronr on February 03, 2014, 05:54:05 PM
Thanks Jo (its Bob BTW),

Ah, sorry, I was thinking of "cyphyr" at the time!

Quote
I have not tried your suggestion but will look into it. If you try it, be sure to post it here; and, I'll do the same. The tought came to me while thinking of a better transition from a dense population to one that thins out - something that fuzzy zone doesn't always give you.

I've attached an image which uses a Power fractal as I suggested. I'm not sure if this is what you were thinking of. This population has a close spacing. You can change the pattern easily by reseeding the power fractal.

Regards,

Jo
Title: Re: Random clumping of objects re-seed option in populator.
Post by: choronr on February 03, 2014, 07:15:47 PM
This looks good Jo; and, thanks for illustrating it. I will try this on the project I'm working on.
Title: Re: Random clumping of objects re-seed option in populator.
Post by: TheBadger on February 03, 2014, 08:25:14 PM
Hey, thats handy! Thanks. +1 on Bobs request too though, that sounds great.
Title: Re: Random clumping of objects re-seed option in populator.
Post by: Dune on February 04, 2014, 02:58:14 AM
You should experiment more with the fractals, guys! Weird combinations can be made, stretching, rotating, masking, multiplying, difference, variation in noise (and all the settings can be 'abused'; huge numbers, negatives...). Check it out by putting the line of fractals through a surface shader. You can determine the location or placing of veggies beforehand then.
Title: Re: Random clumping of objects re-seed option in populator.
Post by: mhaze on February 04, 2014, 11:18:18 AM
Apart from the power fractal don't forget the good old painting shader - only just started using it and I've found it to be excellent.
Title: Re: Random clumping of objects re-seed option in populator.
Post by: choronr on February 04, 2014, 11:26:36 AM
Quote from: Dune on February 04, 2014, 02:58:14 AM
You should experiment more with the fractals, guys! Weird combinations can be made, stretching, rotating, masking, multiplying, difference, variation in noise (and all the settings can be 'abused'; huge numbers, negatives...). Check it out by putting the line of fractals through a surface shader. You can determine the location or placing of veggies beforehand then.
Yes, I'm beginning to realize that there are many ways to achieve the same goal.
Title: Re: Random clumping of objects re-seed option in populator.
Post by: TheBadger on February 04, 2014, 12:02:46 PM
Hey Dune. Yeah I know. Just forget the obvious sometimes when Im really focused on the more complex.
Title: Re: Random clumping of objects re-seed option in populator.
Post by: choronr on February 04, 2014, 01:00:11 PM
Quote from: mhaze on February 04, 2014, 11:18:18 AM
Apart from the power fractal don't forget the good old painting shader - only just started using it and I've found it to be excellent.
Yes, this works well when all other methods tried fail. When Planetside works on lightening up that screen over the preview window, it should be easier to work with.
Title: Re: Random clumping of objects re-seed option in populator.
Post by: jo on February 04, 2014, 07:59:01 PM
Hi,

I just want to emphasise what Ulco mentioned. I was a bit surprised that getting this effect using a fractal wasn't the first thought :-). TG is like a big open toolkit. We provide the building blocks to allow a tremendous variety of effects. The fractal nodes are one of the fundamental building blocks. If you are familiar with the sorts of patterns the different fractals can generate then you can think of those as the basis for more complex effects built up with different combinations of nodes.

I've attached the project I used to render the above image to show how easy this was. It doesn't include the object though, it was an Xfrog flower model. You can check out the node settings anyway.

I will admit that this would be easier if the fractal previews were more responsive to work with, but this is an area we plan to improve.

Regards,

Jo
Title: Re: Random clumping of objects re-seed option in populator.
Post by: choronr on February 04, 2014, 08:37:01 PM
Thank you Jo. I'll be referring to this file while working on my current project.
Title: Re: Random clumping of objects re-seed option in populator.
Post by: luvsmuzik on December 05, 2016, 05:42:45 PM
When using the PF for a density shader must one first use a transform input or other transformation node? Found it! No reply necessary. Works for me without one so far.