ART=The quality of communications. :)
Creating 3d model with your machine against you - THAT is art. :( :D
Art is what man believes about himself and what he believes about reality.
Interesting...
Actually I wanted to say with capital. Art or better Fine Art? Not necessary a belief but real stuff like painting, drawing, movies, acting...etc.
Take a casserole.
Blend 10% of talent with 90% of work.
Cook it slowly until someone want to taste your sauce.
If he says :"I buy it", it's Art...
Dont confuse "Art" with "art of a kind"
You mentioned acting. Its funny because I always remember a lesson I had about Plato's hierarchy of art. HE ranked acting as the lowest level of art. The least important and the least useful. He ranked music as the highest form of art man is capable of. Subsequently everyone of Plato's calabure agreed with him up until the modern age.
Art of a kind would be trade craft and craft in general. Things like "martial arts", and carpentry (or cooking ;)).
Anyway, people have been arguing about this for some time now ;D
Sure...if u want to buy something is because it communicates to you...it has a nice wavelength so u get interested as that piece of art(communication) is interesting :)
To me art is the ability of someone to do fantastic things, that not everybody else can do as well, be it painting, making music or belching a complete poem.
OK, the latter may not be really fantastic, but it's a good example, why for me Joseph Beuys for instance is no artist.
When I was in school my art teacher insisted that art is communication. I always tried to find out, what Beuys wanted to communicate by putting twenty pounds of margarine onto a chair. (I once saw his original artwork. ...and I paid to see it!!)
Another exhibit was a room filled with cotton felt pads covered with copper plates. The name was "herd of elephants". I see!
I really do believe that just nobody dares to say that he was nothing but a smart businessman (or just a weirdo?). Who wants to be an ignorant?
That's just my opinion, and it felt good to type that!!!! ;D ;D ;D
When u observe something and it communicates to you in a nice way..etc then it is art for you. Otherwise if that thing like the margarine on the chair was not an art for u as it communicated nothing for u. You were not able to understand that thing...if there is no communication then there is no understanding. Therefore I think your teacher was right.
That was a good explanation. I didn't mean to be harsh.
But that f****** margarine just didn't want to talk to me!
Next time I'll try to talk to the margarine. Or to the chair. Maybe they understand me?! If so, does that mean that I am art? ;)
Sounds good!
Actually I have to correct myself. Your teacher was partially right. Art is not only communication. It is the quality of the communication. Art is a nice thing. It has great wavelength....so if something is disguise you (and that is also a communication) it won;t be an art for you.
You hit the nail on the head Hannes!
And thats what happens when you let modernism and post modernism decide what reality is. Its whatever anyone says it is.
So science, economics, history and everything else all loose all meaning. They become whatever you want them to be. They mean whatever you
feel like. Or whatever the majority, or whoever has power says.
And in the end it all becomes about taste. Personal taste. Everything comes down to if you prefer vanilla ice cream or chocolate. Do you prefer socialism or capitalism? Whats the difference then?
The problem is that reality does not care how we feel about it. And feeling bad about it does not change it. Which is why the reality for most humans is misery then death.
And we don't even have art anymore to record it since the post modernists and the modernists all agree, there is no such thing as history. And if you don't believe me, just turn on the news and try to find the truth.
QuoteWhen u observe something and it communicates to you in a nice way..etc then it is art for you. Otherwise if that thing like the margarine on the chair was not an art for u as it communicated nothing for u. You were not able to understand that thing...if there is no communication then there is no understanding. Therefore I think your teacher was right.
You just proved Hannes' point!
So the problem in your argument is not that the thing was not art, but that hannes is just stupid. This is how modernism works. Modernism is rule by the "genius".
Add a "will to power" and you have post modernism, you will also have hitler.
Margarine on my chair ???
That's A"r"tful !!!
^^ genius! Make that man God! Or at least king ???
See?
Quote from: TheBadger on March 18, 2014, 12:32:07 PM
^^ genius! Make that man God! Or at least king ???
See?
No? Well too bad. We have the power and we say that man in the Giff is God. And we dont even have to fight you to prove it. We will just make you poor until you die. And in the meantime we will make your kids go to our schools where we will teach them that the man in the giff is in fact God.
And they will all make art that says so. So therefore, it is so. And you can't argue with us, because we are smarter than you.
Now do you see? Of course you do, the "
quality" of our education is very good.
Well I did not say or indicate that Hannes was stupid as he did not understand that stuff. Then I corrected myself on his teacher being right. Only thing I try to say is this. If something is communicating to you in a good quality or you feel pleasure to look at that thing, picture...whatever then it will be an art for YOU.
Don't worry. I read your correction, and I agree with your "updated" version. ;)
QuoteIf something is communicating to you in a good quality or you feel pleasure to look at that thing, picture...whatever then it will be an art for YOU.
So is porn Art? People understand it. People get pleasure from it. People spend billions of dollars on it. It communicate successfully. The quality? Is Porn art to you?
You are constructing reality here. And if reality can be constructed, then it can also be de-constructed.
The problem is, that means you think that reality is, because you are.
And I am saying that is insane.
Thank you Hannes :)
And for the rest: I am sorry guys to open this topic. It was not a good idea. I can see it now. It is going too wild for my taste. I really like this forum and all of you on it so I apologize. Let;s get back to the real stuff. TG!
Too bad. Its one of the best topics. :)
LOL!
Hey Archonforest, come on, this is indeed a great thread. I know that there cannot be an answer to this queation, but it's great fun to see what people think. This is the non-TG area, so why not arguing a bit? We all know, this is a very peaceful forum, so we can do that, without starting a war.
Btw, I like Badger's question if porn is art then. Well, it somehow communicates ;D
But let's be honest. Who watches porn movies expecting a fine piece of art?
I do....................... :o
Great answer! ;D
You misspelt the last two letters of your sentence, Hannes ;D
By the way, guys, don't you think art (whatever it is) is totally full of air? It's the same as the housing 'bubble'; people paying many millions for something some artist once dreamed up.
Art today seems like 'doing the craziest you can, and advertise it as art'. That last part seems to do it.
Okay, for popular demand...lets continue... :D
To answer TheBadger... per my viewpoint, porn is not an art. It is something degraded. It might communicate something but by "pleasure" to watch I had a different idea in mind. Might be my English vocabulary is not that great but I tried to talk about aesthetics, beauty...etc. This is what I mean the quality of communication...
Like general people who are not doing art but just watching them...etc they either like a song for example or not. They not necessary know why they like or dislike the song. But if they feel better and happier to listen it that means that song have a good quality of communication. Art is on a high aesthetic wavelength. I think most people sense this very well and therefore many people can think the same while watching a picture or a movie.
Dune, yeah some "art" pieces today looks like...brrr... and some people paying millions for things. I guess either they like that piece of art or they just buy it to show off how much money they have...etc
I think every person individually has to answer this question for themselves. What is art? Well if its communicates to you on a high aesthetic wavelength then it will be an art for you.
:)
On the question of porn as art
All I was pointing out is that if everything is truly relative, than Friedrich Nietzsche (post modernism) was right, and nothing means anything. So whats the difference between the Hagia Sophia, and a painting by Charles Manson? What is the difference between eating a hamburger and eating a human? Or a gang-bang and any painting in the Louvre?
If there is no truth, than there can be no Art. There is only desire and will, and taste. Everyone and everything is equal. So who cares then? Lets just depopulate the world and start over. We can make the world however we want it.
Or worse, modernism, where truth and reality are defined by the "genius". So instead of everything and everyone being equally shit, we have the genius, who is above us, and will make sense of the world for us. Because we are shit, but he is like god.
In modernism porn is art depending on if it was made by Spielberg or you. If it was made by you it is porn. If only because there need only be 1 genius making the decisions.
...
Aesthetics and Beauty
People talk about these two things like they are just two ways of saying the same thing. But it is NOT so.
Aesthetics is as it is usually described, the way something looks. If it is "pretty", "attractive", if it is balanced or aranged in a pleaseing way. Those words are good to talk about Aesthetics. And YES I do agree very strongly that Aesthetics are greatly important!
But Beauty?
Beauty is my friend who loved me, and lay his life down so I could live. Beauty is reason, without which there is nothing to understand. Beauty is not what, but why. Beauty is the splendor of wisdom.
Beauty is not the object, it is the reason we make the object. The part that we make the object to contain.
Aesthetics is how we dress the object.
...
Or does anyone here really believe that the Parthenon and Hannes' chair are equal? That they are the same? Or that one is simply more pleasing than the other, depending on who you ask?
Or to bring this full circle, is making porn the same as making love? Or even having sex for that matter? Anyone should know the truth of this. Well...
@Archonforest
You keep asking if it is art to "you" (me). What do we matter? If we stop living, does that mean the things we think are art stop being art? Does the world end when we die? If a tree falls in the woods... These are very old questions. ;)
But you should not be offended by my disagreeing with you. I just love this subject. It is as important to me as politics or religion or my country or anything. And I am aggressive anyway. So don't take offense from me ever, I don't mean any harm. Any I am also a bad writer and usually don't say well, what I am trying to say.
@Dune
I probably agree with your last two sentences very much. It is a shame. people can do so much, but only try to sell stuff. I just wish the stuff they were selling meant more... Probably would not hurt if it was made better too.
@ Hannes, Yossam, and matrix
;D ;D ;D well its not art, but its something! :o
...
Just my words guys. Im not trying to win. Just represent something I hold to be important..as best i can ;)! :-*
Edited a little to fix my embarrassing spelling and grammar. How sad for me :-[
P.S.
And I am not saying I don't like pretty things that are empty too. I like hollywood as much as anyone ;D
Wow that is an answer and half :D
On the porn side: I think whoever makes porn it still degrade. Sex is a good thing but that must be between to person and private. When somebody makes that openly on many weird ways for money...well...I am sorry for those guys and girls...
I think art can only die when humanity dies as we are the creators. So if nobody creating them the already created things will perish anyway....
Beauty is in the eye of the cornholder. ;D
^^ lol ;D Ill bet you thats pretty close to a title of a real porn movie too :D
Art.
is.
Too much minimalist/deconstructionist ? :-\
LOL!
Just keep it low and easy :D
Quote from: N810 on March 20, 2014, 10:06:02 AM
Too much minimalist/deconstructionist ? :-\
;D no. you just did not make much room to argue with you on it ;)
By the way, I think I can give a little evidence that supports what I was saying a little about porn being art if it was made by a "genius".
Lars von Trier (who made 'melancholia' http://www.melancholiathemovie.com and some others), will release 'Nymphomaniac' (to be a trilliogy I think)
QuoteThe world premiere of the first part of the five-and-half-hour-long uncut version :o premiered on February 16, 2014 at the 64th Berlin International Film Festival.[8]
The film has some very famous actors who have sex with one another on camera. Actual sex that is graphically shown including penetration. (Mr lars holds pretty close to the rules of Realism in cinema). Anyway, I can promise you that if you get some actors together and try to do what he did, you will be going straight to video ;)
But you have to hand it to the Berliners, getting together in large groups to watch famous hollywood people screw is really modern and clever. How civilized and mature of them. Well, not very modern I guess, the Romans were doing it 2000 years ago.
melancholia was pretty good movie though. Despite that it was super irritating and depressing. If you go just by melancholia you may think Lars is a pissed off man hatting feminist, trapped in the body of a fat depressed man hating feminist. I would likely agree with you.
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing which ones to keep." Scott Adams
"Art is not a thing, it is a way." Elbert Hubbard
"Art suffers the moment other people start paying for it." Hugh MacLeod
"Art is not what you see, but what you make others see." Edgar Degas
"Making art is presenting everything we know and enjoy in a selective way.
Enjoying art is the other selective side of what we know art should be.
It is an two side interactive process that changes all sides and defines itself dynamically." Kadri Özel
Sorry couldn't resist ;D