Planetside Software Forums

General => Image Sharing => Topic started by: efflux on July 26, 2007, 02:24:44 PM

Title: Planet Spinner
Post by: efflux on July 26, 2007, 02:24:44 PM
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/media/folder_149/file_1488489.jpg

TG2 is really awesome! As you can tell, this looks kind of Mojo like but I've used Mojo and I wanted to see what Mojo things TG2 could do. It turns out I can do almost all of what I was doing in Mojo. In fact some things are much better. The only major thing that Mojo has which TG can't match is the volumetrics plugin because it can do all sorts, including terrains not just cloud forms but it's tricky to use anyway.

To get that scaly type texture I used a graph following the node pattern below. You can process X, Y and Z separately and differently if you want and then rebuild a vector. I'm no maths head at all but this stuff is easy with some trial and error. Just look it up if you don't know and it makes absolute common sense what these functions are going to do with your shapes. This is an exact example of how I came about the effect as I experimented.

-I HAVE REMOVED THIS PART-

See first screenshot in later message below (I just noticed that the formatting had been messed up in pasting the text to the message anyway)

The Multiply scalar and Power scalars need Constant scalars hooked in to input 2 to give them multiplying and powering values. The multiply in this case is actually multiplying by say 0.5 on one scalar so dividing. The others were set to 2. It just depends what size you want the features in each dimension. I'm using a basic setup like this to hook things all sorts of ways to get different results, add other maths functions, remove some etc.

I also used nodes to drive displacements via altitude. There is a thread on this forum somewhere about that. The rest is simply blending up standard things. I used voronoi nodes to drive some textures and voronoi is actually a part of the terrain displacement.

Sine and Cosine is capable of all sorts. Bricks, tiles, corrugations, cushions, weaved cloth, scales, blobs etc etc.

The possibility of having sliders simply changing lots of features is also awesome. You can just bring in a whole other planet as a clip and play around so easily. Sliding from one planet to another to take this to extreme. The ease of the nodes UI is magical. This planet is better than anything I ever did in Mojo and made in a fraction of the time. I'll probably take more shots soon.

Next I need to work on texture detail more, lighting etc, get the realism up to scratch.
Title: Re: Planet Spinner
Post by: Mavcat on July 26, 2007, 02:37:44 PM
Dont make it look easy :o i hate the functions and they hate me ! Nice picture btw :p very nice terrain
Title: Re: Planet Spinner
Post by: efflux on July 26, 2007, 02:43:04 PM
It is easy, honestly. The function graph may seem frightening but it's the key to TG2's power and the stuff I'm doing is simple. The most difficult part is imagining how you are going to use the results artistically.
Title: Re: Planet Spinner
Post by: rcallicotte on July 26, 2007, 03:04:06 PM
Thanks efflux.  The more of this the merrier.  I can't believe how much I've learned by taking things like these and just dabbling with them on my own and then referencing the source (you, in this case). 

Great work and great fun.   ;D
Title: Re: Planet Spinner
Post by: Volker Harun on July 26, 2007, 03:31:06 PM
Good work!
Title: Re: Planet Spinner
Post by: old_blaggard on July 26, 2007, 06:51:26 PM
Cool effect!
Title: Re: Planet Spinner
Post by: ProjectX on July 27, 2007, 05:49:44 AM
Excellent function use! Hmm... I wonder what a tan scalar would do in place of the cos scalars...
Title: Re: Planet Spinner
Post by: FrankB on July 27, 2007, 07:08:56 AM
Hi,

I am fascinated by your image. I have tried to reconstruct the functions network as you advised, however the formations resulting from it when plugged into the displacement port of a surface shader don't look anywhere close to what you've got.
I'm wondering if you could create a simplified version of your image as a project file and upload it here.

Also, I can't find no function like "complement vector". Where have you got yours from?

Cheers,
Frank
Title: Re: Planet Spinner
Post by: efflux on July 27, 2007, 02:00:02 PM
Sorry, you found a mistake FrankB. Thanks for spotting that. I originally used a complement scalar. There is no complement vector. This function simply reverses the displacement. You don't need that to begin with, Sorry about that folks. I have corrected it. I should have posted a screenshot. I had intended to put these shots at a central place but couldn't access it for some reason but here it is. This is the actual working graph from that planet. As you can see, this setup lets me easily change the different dimensions with different functions.

(http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/2448/sineblocksyk6.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

This is what to start with:

(http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/2907/sinefunctionsbasicin3.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

Notice how I have this in a group named Clips which is kept away from the other groups so I can save it and the nodes to bring it into any other graph, except I don't save the displacement shader and base colours (power fractal) because I sort that out in the new graph.

This is how to get it to work initially. First you need to see it. Start with a flat TG. No terrain. Set your camera  to position 0, 20, 0 and rotation -45, 0, 0. Create these nodes, hook the displacement shader into the input node of the default base colours shader (which should be there in the default set up that opens). This obviously then goes to planet surface. You'll see something straight away before adjusting any sizes of anything. This is how I work. I make surfaces on a flat TG terrain to get them right and experiment. Often these surfaces end up being actual terrains. Also, in the base shader, set it's colour contrast and roughness to 0. You want it smooth with no distractions. I also disable the rendering of atmosphere and shadows, we don't need that. I just want a gray shade on the shapes. What you should see is something that looks like a pin cushion displacement. If any of this doesn't work let me know or if I'd made a mistake in the description. It's kind of hard to know what things might be defaulted to before you do any of this but it's better than me providing a file because you'll learn better. Now you can start playing with this hooking up the X, Y and Z scalars to different functions.
Title: Re: Planet Spinner
Post by: efflux on July 27, 2007, 02:26:04 PM
As for the complement scalar business it would be a good one to try putting before the build vector to change maybe just one or two dimensions. The possibilities here are immense. I'll post some shots of some variations I've got experimenting with this angle. This is without even using any fractals. It's why TG2 is so fantastic. Very powerful. Probably a lot of my techniques are flawed but if it gets the visual results then I'll use it.
Title: Re: Planet Spinner
Post by: efflux on July 27, 2007, 02:48:31 PM
Here are some examples. I'm building up hundreds of materials. There is literally no end to it. Whatever you imagine. This is just stuff following the basic ideas I've described. The nodes are not the nightmare you might think. One of the problems is lack of info about how to use them. It's the same with Mojoworld and I think partly responsible for the downfall of that app. Frozen development. Difficult to work stuff out by yourself but it just takes a few examples to help. There were only a small number of people using Mojoworld who were creating great planets and sharing the files so lots of people rendered from those and used parts of them. Not very creative for everyone involved and now some of those planet builders are no longer using Mojo - at least that's how it seems.

(http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/5799/varioussinetypeou3.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
Title: Re: Planet Spinner
Post by: old_blaggard on July 27, 2007, 04:26:15 PM
Interesting patterns.  I haven't actually had much time to use the function nodes myself, but as has been said, you can model almost any mathematical function with the functions.  I'm really looking forward to what people come up with next ;).
Title: Re: Planet Spinner
Post by: efflux on July 27, 2007, 10:51:17 PM
Latest shot from the Planet:

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/media/folder_149/file_1489410.jpg
Title: Re: Planet Spinner
Post by: mogn on July 28, 2007, 02:25:28 AM
Efflux, You can save 4 nodes in your sineblocks:

Replace for 3 multipy scalar constants with a vector.
Remove the 3 multiply nodes.
Insert a multiply vector after the getposition:

   MultiplyVector(GetPosition(),Constant vector)


Title: Re: Planet Spinner
Post by: efflux on July 28, 2007, 02:45:36 AM
OK mong, yes on that actual clip from the planet I could cut things out but it was just the way I was working at the time because I was swapping stuff around in each dimension. I was keeping it all in separate paths even if some nodes were still doing the same thing. Thats one of the reasons I actually initially just posted a kind of diagram to begin with instead the screen shot to show the principal.

In fact I should clean that up and repost it. I'll do it later. Not enough time right now.
Title: Re: Planet Spinner
Post by: efflux on July 28, 2007, 03:35:05 AM
mogn, I got some time to change the graph so did so but could only see 3 nodes that could be removed, as far as I can tell.
Title: Re: Planet Spinner
Post by: mogn on July 29, 2007, 01:50:07 AM
My fault, I didnt remark that you uses the same scalar in two of your mulipliers!
Title: Re: Planet Spinner
Post by: efflux on July 29, 2007, 01:57:01 AM
OK.  Your advice was good though because the change makes the original graph from the planet easier to read. No point in making things more confusing. I'm glad I changed it.
Title: Re: Planet Spinner
Post by: Volker Harun on October 16, 2007, 05:24:49 PM
Just to push this thread to its place ... the top ,-)
Title: Re: Planet Spinner
Post by: efflux on October 16, 2007, 05:33:56 PM
He he. Nice work Volker.
Title: Re: Planet Spinner
Post by: efflux on October 16, 2007, 05:43:44 PM
One important point here is that although a lot of my work does not exactly fall into a planet earth realism, some of these techniques are entirely usable in those types of scenes. If you look at my render here:

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/media/folder_152/file_1519979.jpg

It has those sine/cosine functions. You can see some lines in the rocks at the top left but if you look closely at the terrain under that big twisting thing just at the base of the cliffs around where that sandy coloured area is then you'll see faint sine functions creating very subtle lines or undulating strata. it's the exact function as described in this thread.
Title: Re: Planet Spinner
Post by: Seth on October 16, 2007, 05:45:09 PM
sweeeeeet ! too bad i don't understand a damn thing about functions ! ^^
Title: Re: Planet Spinner
Post by: efflux on October 16, 2007, 05:50:53 PM
For another example if you create a straightforward one dimensional sine then mix it with a perlin or something you have a ploughed field look.
Title: Re: Planet Spinner
Post by: bigben on October 16, 2007, 07:41:29 PM
Great work.... There are definitely lots of uses for this as you say in both realistic and "artistic" applications. The momentum on this forum at the moment is a little hard to keep up with  ;)
Title: Re: Planet Spinner
Post by: efflux on October 16, 2007, 08:41:51 PM
Here's another angle I have on the back boiler. Procedural cityscapes. With the right functions we can go way WAY beyond what you see in this image which was my first experiment:

(http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/5096/cityblock190th9.jpg)

It's not a whole lot removed from the sine ideas but using full fractals.
Title: Re: Planet Spinner
Post by: nvseal on October 16, 2007, 08:49:31 PM
That looks great. Definitely keep going that direction. Oh, and make a tutorial to go with it.  ;D
Title: Re: Planet Spinner
Post by: efflux on October 16, 2007, 09:21:28 PM
It's probably an idea that would fit well with your high planet views with clouds. Because even in a simple state like in the above render, it would look cool too see from space. TG2 is rendering at the moment so I can't open the file and study to give a better description. One thing I know from using Mojo is that incredible cybercity type forms are possible. Mojo has a few extra functions useful for this type of thing though but nothing that TG2 won't have in future, I have no doubt.
Title: Re: Planet Spinner
Post by: rcallicotte on October 17, 2007, 10:25:48 AM
Oh, please give us a tutorial.  This is awesome!   :o
Title: Re: Planet Spinner
Post by: dhavalmistry on October 17, 2007, 02:23:29 PM
it looks like a well organized and designed sci-fi city!
Title: Re: Planet Spinner
Post by: Mr_Lamppost on October 17, 2007, 10:28:05 PM
Reminds me of that night time "Grid" view of L  A.  :D
Title: Re: Planet Spinner
Post by: efflux on October 18, 2007, 12:50:31 PM
OK guys. I had a look at my cityscape file. It's not as simple as I thought and involves 38 nodes  :'(

I did it a while back so forgot. I'll examine it and get back here.
Title: Re: Planet Spinner
Post by: Volker Harun on October 19, 2007, 05:42:05 AM
Using Efflux's Tipps and Tricks I came up with the following.

Duplicating the functions and and using another scale could make a very good scene, but I am off with other things ,-)

Volker
Title: Re: Planet Spinner
Post by: cyphyr on October 19, 2007, 06:43:55 AM
Hmm very interesting, I like where this is going. I'm looking forward to getting into these new function interpretations. You guys are really pushing the boundaries.
Richard
Title: Re: Planet Spinner
Post by: efflux on October 19, 2007, 10:42:05 AM
Cool stuff Volker. How about sending this stuff through colour gradients  8)

What we could really do with is a steep steps function.
Title: Re: Planet Spinner
Post by: efflux on October 19, 2007, 10:52:52 AM
My cityscape actually uses a different approach. More fractal usage is good for this due to more variation that it supplies. I'll get around to looking again at my graph to see how it could be simplified. It doesn't render very fast. I think it could be better.
Title: Re: Planet Spinner
Post by: Volker Harun on October 19, 2007, 10:56:35 AM
I started with your tipp of using two PowerFractals, that got stretched into different directions ... that was Fast(!)
Title: Re: Planet Spinner
Post by: efflux on October 19, 2007, 11:06:41 AM
Yes, it turns out that I did not do this but what I did was use two transform shaders to stretch one fractal in two dimensions. However the rest of my graph (to get the straight geometry) seems over complex but I'm going to look at. I'm not tremendously enthusiastic about this cityscape thing yet. However one other angle I experimented with, ties in. The colour gradients. You will see eventually  ;)

The problem is that we don't want too many sharp angles. This doesn't facilitate displacements very well. My best Mojo examples of this, blended various techniques together so some of the more geometric forms were smoother faciliating more variety in the scape rather than just lots sharp blocks.
Title: Re: Planet Spinner
Post by: efflux on October 19, 2007, 11:23:58 AM
Imagine if we had all these:

http://www.nirarebakun.com/voro/eman.html

:o :o :o :o :o
Title: Re: Planet Spinner
Post by: Volker Harun on October 21, 2007, 04:22:33 AM
Now again that Sine-function - The Get-Position is multiplied with a powerfractal.
Title: Re: Planet Spinner
Post by: efflux on October 21, 2007, 12:33:45 PM
Lovely. Beautiful shapes.

I'd like to see someone use the sine to get ploughed fields, to get back to a real world type of use. You just get one dimension say X from position, add a perlin noise (or could be a fractal) then through a sine. You get this:

(http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/9080/ploughedhl5.jpg)

I wasn't specifically aiming for a ploughed field effect but you can see with a bit of work you could get this really good. Better distortions, fake stones but it doesn't end there. How about creating patchworks of fields or distorting a little on a larger scale to get slightly uneven furrows. This is where other basis function could come in, like those hybrid voronois, manhatton etc. You could create entire landscapes full of fields.
Title: Re: Planet Spinner
Post by: efflux on October 21, 2007, 03:15:04 PM
This is what I had in mind for the sine furrows. It is very simple. We only need one dimension for the sine:

(http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/7992/sinefurrowsrenderzx3.jpg)

The graph:

(http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/2927/sinefurrowsbg5.jpg)

How about populations of plants on the tops of the furrows or something. Steep steps function as a mask for grids of fields? We don't have that yet. Maybe we can do that by stretching out fractals and blending or using 1D from them.

This would be better with a fractal rather than just the perlin noise but it's just a test.

Anyway, got to get back to the crazy experiments. The TG2 UI (especially on my Mac) can't handle my graphs in one window now. I've had to get into creating internal networks. My next planet may be around 500 nodes. My brain is starting to hurt. It may take a long time to finish but TG2 is handling this like a dream due to the node UI. 8)
Title: Re: Planet Spinner
Post by: Oshyan on October 21, 2007, 04:13:40 PM
Wow, that's a remarkably good looking plowed field. Nice!

- Oshyan
Title: Re: Planet Spinner
Post by: efflux on October 21, 2007, 04:18:31 PM
Thanks Oshyan. Although I'm doing some weird stuff, if it feeds back into something useful for realistic use then I'll try to demonstrate that. Hopefully people can follow that graph. The problem will be in tweaking the multiply (or divide) to get the scale they want but with experiment that will come clear.

Funny, but their seems to be two spellings of ploughed or plowed. US and UK differences I think. My Mac spell checked me when I thought I had got it right.

Just to add here, to help see what you are doing with the multiply, take your camera to about 20m. With a multiply of 1 you will see the sine so then you will see what multiplying or dividing (e.g. multipying by 0.1) will do. By tweaking you will learn the sine better.
Title: Re: Planet Spinner
Post by: Volker Harun on October 22, 2007, 02:48:41 AM
Very (!) Good!
Title: Re: Planet Spinner
Post by: FrankB on October 22, 2007, 11:17:14 AM
indeed, looking very good. Especially like the simplicity of the node setup for this.