New work in progress, first test.
Next.
Great!! I would have recognized this as your work, Ulco, even without knowing it.
The tents are a nice addition.
Thanks, Hannes. Tents will be darker brown (deerskin), and much more veggies!
Is that human skin shader a mix of UV map and procedural?
Very nice, as ever. Looking forward to seeing this finished.
@Jochen: yes. Using the skin just like that gives a very smooth, unnatural appearance, so I add some dirt and skin stains, especially since these people are 'wild'. I have to take care not to overdo it, though, take the right PF's settings.
Next iteration, with DOF, smooth shadows and smooth reflection. Took 90 mins on an i7, detail 0.6, AA6. But I have to add more veggies, especially further down the creek, some large trees (it should really be a thick forest with fallen trees in the water and such). I am also on the hunt for a good wolflike dog or wolf, preferably rigged for some postures.
I have the feeling the DOF wasn't chosen very well, as it seems slightly blurred too much into the distance. It was set at 40m with an aperture of 2.6 (diafragm setting).
Like from one of my old schoolbooks. Great!
I guess it must be somewhere in europe, because of the men's red hair?
I've just realized what's bugging me - The hunters should be sweaty! Perhaps open the mouth of the Auroch it would be bellowing in anger, pain and fear!
I had trouble enough mapping the bloody beast, so I hardly dare touching it again. It has its mouth open a bit (but just closing it again, as it realizes it's a hopeless situation).
Red hair, yes, it's Europe, but I will probably diversify the hair. And the sweat was lingering in my mind, but it's good that you mention it.
Great action composition filled with many details. I have a wolf model if you are interested.
Yeah, mappings a pain - I avoid it I can :)
Would Hannes' SSS thread have any application here? Was sorry to see that just fade out. Now you are you using figures a lot more, I wonder about the SSS conversation in an actual scene as apposed to an experimental thread.
Just curious about the subject and this scene seems to be a good one to check in on the topic.
Another fun and interesting history, Ulco!
Maybe I'll reread that thread. I tried to get some better skin tones, less patchiness, a bit more sweat, but I think I'll add a mask for some sweat patches/trickles, especially on the front guy.
Next iteration running has a little haze to give more depth in the creek distance.
Sorry about the pixelation; I don't want it published illegally before the client has even seen it ;)
Now hunt for wolfdogs, or make one or two...
That's better - coming along nicely!
Looks better Ulco.
A very basic and kinda working way for human skin is,
copying the skin parts on another layer in an image editor and using Linear dodge blending (or another one you might prefer maybe) .
Adjusting the blending percentage and playing with colors of the layer or methods like dodge and burning etc. can make for many different looks.
For animation one could use the Render layers maybe to automate this for any comping program .
This is a 10 minute work. I tried different setting for 3 grubs here. Some look better then the others.
The guy on the front needs more work.
It is not a substitute for subsurface skin rendering but it helps a little IMHO.
(The GIF animation is looping every 5 seconds )
[attachimg=1]
Thought of Hannes' thread also and made a little test.
[attach=1]
On the left it's the model with it's standard map and some PF dirt.
On the right it has some easy TG additions,which make it look a bit
better,imho at least.
Other specular settings and some slight translucency.
Translu:a raw meat-like color at ca. 0.6.
Spec:reflectivity ca. 0.6 ,ref ind 1.3-4 and roughness 0.25-0.3.
Each iteration looks better and better.
Thanks for your tests, guys. I'll dive into it and study some photo's of tanned outdoor people as well.
Here's the creek in the distance, with a tiny haze. Will make it a little more.
That creek looks insanely good! Did you use a real water shader or some other one?
That last image looks great indeed.
Ulco i think you need a little more detailed-natural looking trees.
A scene within a scene, very good.
I think you're referring to the dead branches. I have to check those; just made them.
I used a watershader, but added a reflective shader set at 0.002 smoothing (but perhaps not in this crop). I will smooth it in the final, though.
Quote from: Dune on May 18, 2015, 02:34:53 AM
Thanks for your tests, guys. I'll dive into it and study some photo's of tanned outdoor people as well.
Speaking of diving in, I want to dive into that creek ;D
Quote from: choronr on May 18, 2015, 10:29:42 AM
A scene within a scene, very good.
... its scene-ception!
Some trees are higher poly'd now, also added another cottongrass and another big oak pop (with added moss on trunk), and changed the translucency and reflection of the skins (thanks again, Jochen). The creek has changed, I have to see what the client prefers; open or dark.
I'll leave it at this for the time being. Still have to add some dogs/wolves.
Any comment and advice is greatly appreciated, as always.
Very good improvements. Details get better and better.
Oh my god, Ulco! The left about 3/5 are amazing. The camp is nice but it seems rather close to the hunt, at least to me. A beast like this would probably know to avoid the humans I dare to speculate.
Yes, I considered the placing of the camp, but that's the difficulty with illustrating something; you have to show everything in enough detail on a small area.
Some dogs, but I'm not very satisfied with them.
Your people are just okay, dog not so good. Your scene however is brilliant! I have a way to balance the awesomeness: Get your favorite hunter-gatherer costumes together, put them on and go get some green screen photos of yourself and some friends :)
Detail is is good. Looks great already.
As Dorianvan suggested you could use postwork for wolves,people etc.
Yeah, maybe. For the dogs at least; some pretty good wolves have to fetch hundreds of dollars, so they're out. I can make a good wolf myself by now, but rigging and texturing is my weakpoint. But I'm also a bit of a nerd sometimes, wanting everything in one go in TG.
I also have to work on the arrows and bows (they're pretty plain now), hope to get info from the archeaologist how he wants them.
You will get there, these pursuits always get to be where they are needed.
This is getting more amazing with every iteration, BUT, I have a problem with the water lilies in the stream. In the main they grow on lakes and ponds and abhor/can't take root anything more than very slow moving, shallow water. Your friendly horticultural nit picker. I mean they look really nice but to me seem out of place. Maybe it's because I've only ever seen them on enclosed water surfaces.
https://www.google.ca/search?q=water+lilies&biw=1366&bih=681&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=aqtcVcetM5KtyAStjIKYDQ&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ#tbm=isch&q=water+lilies+native+habitat
You are right, but this is more or less stagnant, shallow water. I have to hear from the client what they exactly expect in those days, but I put them there mainly for artistic reasons.
I made another egret yesterday, sitting on a branch, so easily put anywhere. But I think I'll move it to a less conspicuous place, as you don't see the branch very well, so it seems floating in the air. And some trees need other leaves and structure. Got some kind of dog in, the first. The part is the max size needed; 5000px wide, but without soft reflection.
I get artistic licence and WOW....nuff said.
Looking better and better!
I found that on your "test-10.jpg" image the part to the right where there is a pile of wood seems to look like an oil painting. Is this intended?
Yes, to make it slightly less usable for pirates ;)
Quote from: Dune on May 21, 2015, 08:22:21 AM
Yes, to make it slightly less usable for pirates ;)
I thought it was because of the semi-naked people in the background! ;)
I'm impressed again. Better and better...
Thanks for your comments, guys. I'll leave it at this as a concept for the client. He might want it all changed :(
This will be max size. A little post will be necessary. BTW, I changed the reflectivity on the guy from 0.6 to 0.4, as it was just too much. Maybe I even ad a small scale PF as input there. I also noticed I have to be careful with increasing GISD, as the dents in this gentlemens ribcage are getting very dark as a result. So GISD is back to 1 here. For greens a high (2) would be better, so I might do an extra crop of the guy and paste it over in post.
The arrows are a very interesting kind, with little 'backhooks' added. But the detail is still just to small/obscure, I'm afraid. I also need to add a transform shader to the arrows' PF.
Nice details and it looks good in closeup too.
Yep,Gisd can be problematic at times.Maybe an external AO map would be
better here.At least it's controllable separately.
Quote from: Dune on May 23, 2015, 02:29:58 AM
BTW, I changed the reflectivity on the guy from 0.6 to 0.4, as it was just too much.
Oh good, I didn't want to nit-pik that as on a bright day it might be appropriate, but to me it looked off.
I like that crop of the pond area too!
Got info about changes, so off to build again. Here's a small test with some new people (which I will refine), and the Beast covered in mud. The mud displacement for the creek is a vdisp map, works wonders.
The beast needs some hair at places(it looks very simplistic like this) , but I'll paint that in.
And a new lowres view.
A really good effect, as the mud seems to bubble!
Awesome mud and great improvement over all..I like the "warpaint" and the realistic preggo/chubby woman..so not Poser....
Its all coming together Ulco, fine, fine work.
Great action work Ulco. My only negative would be that the bull/mud is a bit too de-saturated. For such a lush place, wouldn't the mud be a richer color or even some green algae on his back? Can you also paint some hair on the bull in post work? Just suggestions, really great action though.
Thanks guys. Good idea to enrich the mud a bit, just a hint of green would be good, indeed. Yes, hair. Don't mention it. Horrible stuff to make believable. I did a hairpiece for this guy (the bull), but I'd rather do some post. That is due anyway.
What about populating the bull with some misused grass patches? Theoretically this should work...
That could well work, but you'd have to map the to be populated areas first, or the hair will grow out of his eyes. But these wild cows weren't that hairy. The most important areas are the head top, and neck.
That's true indeed. So maybe some very fine displacement could do the job on the body. But some furry patches using a mask for distribution only on his head could work.
Quick test. I'll try a map for distribution, see if that works. But still, this is more work than some postpainting. And you have little control over the angle of the hairs. There are better ways, like hair in lightwave, but that's still beyond me.
I think it doesn't look bad. If you can find some grass patches with the blades hanging down a bit this could work.
Not bad but I agree with Ulco...looks too much like a brush cut and the bull's head hair from the pics seems rather like human hair hanging over the forehead. Maybe investigate Poser hair pieces.....kidding....
I could probably import some grass objects and add it to the bull in Lightwave, export as one model.
The aurochs's eye might be better with a slightly bigger pupil and a little
less outer white and the white a bit darker.I know it's supposed to be in
panic,but....
Just two more cents.
You're probably right. Thanks.
Changed the complete eyes, which were too complicated anyway, with separate pupil, iris and eyeball. Also copied some grass to the head of the beast in Lightwave, saved as separate object to add if necessary. It turned out a bit scarce, but I'll leave it at this. Using a UV mask for the grass on set areas also works like a dream, by the way.
That nails it for me....
Agreed!
Last before closing off. Final rendered last night in 15 hours. Some postwork necessary, especially the furry stuff. Here's a small mutilated piece of the total.
When I saw the last test I was a little disturbed by the extreme blood colour.
But now I'm glad and love it how it looks. It will be a really really big work again, Ulco :)
On the one hand I feel sorry for the animal. On the other I really like ribs. I doubt they were very good cooks back then, but barbecue is pretty easy.
I'm definitely for gun hunting though, this bow and arrow thing is not very clean. 308 or bigger I would say.
Tasty renders, Ulco.
Looks nice Ulco.
Looks great! But why is this guy on the upper left pixelated? Are you hiding something? ;)
I can't publish on the web without some sort of 'protection', hence the pixelization. Won't post the whole thing either, sorry.
I did quite a lot of editing in the end. If enlarged to 200% you can see errors very well (some vertices, etc). But I think the client can be satisfied.
Indeed! Well, that protection thing explains it. Great work, Ulco!
Nice work Ulco, but keep the blood in the final. Those crude arrow tips probably ripped some holes. You could even have some torn flesh around a couple holes and more blood (I don't talk like a vegetarian, do I?).
This is really awesome work. I do agree that there should be some blood in the final though, seems it might detract a bit if there wasn't with all those arrows poking out. Also,having zoomed in and seeing the expression on they guy's face in the top left, I can't un-see it haha. Somebody picked up the wrong herbs for their food that morning ::)
A few more then. With the blood and some final post tweaks.
Well done.
Thanks, Dorian. BTW: still no work on Sinaï?