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General => Image Sharing => Topic started by: Dune on September 20, 2015, 12:12:16 PM

Title: Erosion --- rivers
Post by: Dune on September 20, 2015, 12:12:16 PM
I'm having a go at Daniil's alpha erosion shader, and it has some interesting potential. My implementation is not perfect (and a bit more complicated than just applying the shader, as always), but it's a test. Great work so far, Daniil!
Title: Re: Erosion --- rivers
Post by: archonforest on September 20, 2015, 01:01:55 PM
wow! :)
Title: Re: Erosion --- rivers
Post by: Kadri on September 20, 2015, 01:58:48 PM

Looks good.
Title: Re: Erosion --- rivers
Post by: fleetwood on September 20, 2015, 02:49:34 PM
Cool results, looks like it's going to be fun.
Title: Re: Erosion --- rivers
Post by: kaedorg on September 20, 2015, 02:54:25 PM
Great work from Danii and great tests so far from you Ulco
Looking forward for more.

David
Title: Re: Erosion --- rivers
Post by: zaxxon on September 20, 2015, 04:18:46 PM
Very exciting imagery! This will be a lot of fun!
Title: Re: Erosion --- rivers
Post by: DannyG on September 20, 2015, 06:29:18 PM
Oh yeah!
Title: Re: Erosion --- rivers
Post by: Oshyan on September 20, 2015, 09:08:22 PM
There is a fantastic sense of scale and distance here. The terrain is quite nice in overall shape and sense of realism, though some details like the river canyon are a bit overly smooth. It definitely shows the potential though. :)

- Oshyan
Title: Re: Erosion --- rivers
Post by: AP on September 20, 2015, 11:17:59 PM
The second image looks like the erosion is conforming better to the slope so the river patterns look more believable. Overall, this looks to be a nice solution to large scale simple river systems. I would imagine adding a primary erosion for the regular narrow fluvial channels and adding a secondary layer for the wider more clamped fluvial channels being the rivers themselves.
Title: Re: Erosion --- rivers
Post by: Dune on September 21, 2015, 02:14:14 AM
There is indeed a lot of potential in Daniil's plugin. I am not finished with it yet  ;) And don't judge me on the blocks.
Title: Re: Erosion --- rivers
Post by: AP on September 21, 2015, 02:24:55 AM
Nice blocks, very interesting.    8)

And of course, very nice erosive cuts.    :)
Title: Re: Erosion --- rivers
Post by: DocCharly65 on September 21, 2015, 05:12:17 AM
Particularly because of the first two images I'm speechless!

Great!
Title: Re: Erosion --- rivers
Post by: Dune on September 21, 2015, 06:00:39 AM
Well, the blocks sucked, but here's another try.
Title: Re: Erosion --- rivers
Post by: AP on September 21, 2015, 06:36:27 AM
Sucked, so not exactly what you were trying to achieve?
Title: Re: Erosion --- rivers
Post by: j meyer on September 21, 2015, 12:05:36 PM
The most promising examples so far.
And the blocks show potential,too.Some parts remind me
of basalt column structures. 8)
Title: Re: Erosion --- rivers
Post by: bobbystahr on September 21, 2015, 12:51:27 PM
Just WOW, both at the plug in's potential and what Ulco's done with it so far....excuse me, I'm drooling now.....
Title: Re: Erosion --- rivers
Post by: Oshyan on September 21, 2015, 05:52:25 PM
I was also reminded of basalt columns. Cool that I'm not the only one. :)

- Oshyan
Title: Re: Erosion --- rivers
Post by: TheBadger on September 21, 2015, 06:23:09 PM
Ulco,
Please post a render before and after applying the erosion feature. It will make it a lot clearer to see what is happening.

looks cool so far anyway.
Title: Re: Erosion --- rivers
Post by: Dune on September 22, 2015, 02:49:38 AM
@Chris, this is what I am after. And in an easy way, that renders fast. One day...

@Micheal, the erosion plugin doesn't  (yet) exactly work that way (though I could try to show the difference, maybe); it's not a shader that you can add afterwards like the fractal warp. It's basically shaping the terrain from the start, but I found a way around, and used the computed maps to displace the terrain, then hooked the initial shader off again. But it takes some thinking to get this to work properly. But Daniil is very committed, and I am definitely sure he'll come up with something incredible and multipurpose.
Title: Re: Erosion --- rivers
Post by: AP on September 22, 2015, 03:23:59 AM
I seem to recall vue having a fractal noise just like that or very similar. We need a procedural noise creator plugin.   8) 
Title: Re: Erosion --- rivers
Post by: Dune on September 22, 2015, 07:57:44 AM
Which will be difficult I suppose. If you start out with a hilly/mountainous terrain, you already have the rounded bulges. To flatten that into these square rocks, you'd need to have the rock displacement to 'fill' it to a square, not just displace it. Easier from a quite vertical, straight wall, like in a valley.
Title: Re: Erosion --- rivers
Post by: bobbystahr on September 22, 2015, 10:47:46 AM
Quote from: Dune on September 22, 2015, 02:49:38 AM
@Chris, this is what I am after. And in an easy way, that renders fast. One day...

@Micheal, the erosion plugin doesn't  (yet) exactly work that way (though I could try to show the difference, maybe); it's not a shader that you can add afterwards like the fractal warp. It's basically shaping the terrain from the start, but I found a way around, and used the computed maps to displace the terrain, then hooked the initial shader off again. But it takes some thinking to get this to work properly. But Daniil is very committed, and I am definitely sure he'll come up with something incredible and multipurpose.

Did you do that rock or is it a photo Ulco?
Title: Re: Erosion --- rivers
Post by: Dune on September 22, 2015, 11:57:35 AM
 8)



haha, photo. But that's the goal, isn't it?
Title: Re: Erosion --- rivers
Post by: kaedorg on September 22, 2015, 01:37:32 PM

Did you do that rock or is it a photo Ulco?
[/quote]


When you get such a question, you're definitively a Master of Terragen  ;D

David
Title: Re: Erosion --- rivers
Post by: bobbystahr on September 22, 2015, 05:01:22 PM
Quote from: kaedorg on September 22, 2015, 01:37:32 PM

Did you do that rock or is it a photo Ulco?


When you get such a question, you're definitively a Master of Terragen  ;D

David
[/quote]

Uh yup!
Title: Re: Erosion --- rivers
Post by: Dune on September 23, 2015, 02:28:44 AM
Well, not master enough to take it for granted that it's a render  :)
Title: Re: Erosion --- rivers
Post by: Kadri on September 23, 2015, 02:49:48 AM

The blocks aren't so bad as you think if you ask me.
Title: Re: Erosion --- rivers
Post by: bobbystahr on September 23, 2015, 03:03:53 AM
I really thought he'd bent them to his will in that photo they seemed so similar...bash on Ulco, you're closer to square than the rest of us, uh square in the geometric not cultural sense, hee hee hee
Title: Re: Erosion --- rivers
Post by: Daniil on October 04, 2015, 02:43:46 PM
I feel that this is on topic.
Two of my attempts to create river system using my plugin (although it wasn't designed to do rivers). I didn't use sofisticated methods like Ulco's, it is direct use of my shader.

Daniil.
Title: Re: Erosion --- rivers
Post by: fleetwood on October 04, 2015, 02:47:10 PM
Very cool.
Title: Re: Erosion --- rivers
Post by: archonforest on October 04, 2015, 02:51:43 PM
Big WOW for that!!
Looks awesome. Hope this plugin will be available very soon :D
Title: Re: Erosion --- rivers
Post by: bobbystahr on October 04, 2015, 03:02:27 PM
Is this going to be a 3rd party add in, or included in the next TG? Awesome btw!
Title: Re: Erosion --- rivers
Post by: TheBadger on October 04, 2015, 03:18:19 PM
is the water the water shader or color only?
Title: Re: Erosion --- rivers
Post by: Oshyan on October 04, 2015, 03:43:34 PM
Daniil is developing a plugin for Terragen using our SDK. These kinds of plugins will generally be available separately from Terragen.

- Oshyan
Title: Re: Erosion --- rivers
Post by: Kadri on October 04, 2015, 04:16:09 PM

Looks nice.Especially for the general look of the landscape.
Title: Re: Erosion --- rivers
Post by: AP on October 04, 2015, 06:53:07 PM
That is overall very impressive. It may be direct use but still, it gives a basic idea of what could serve as rivers although in this case there would be a more clamped water flow coming from the higher slopes and the main river would be more smooth and not so rough. Combine that with what Ulco was doing then there are better possibilities here.
Title: Re: Erosion --- rivers
Post by: bobbystahr on October 04, 2015, 07:07:21 PM
Quote from: Oshyan on October 04, 2015, 03:43:34 PM
Daniil is developing a plugin for Terragen using our SDK. These kinds of plugins will generally be available separately from Terragen.

- Oshyan

Thanks for the info Oshyan...
Title: Re: Erosion --- rivers
Post by: Daniil on October 05, 2015, 01:58:42 AM
Quote from: archonforest on October 04, 2015, 02:51:43 PM
Big WOW for that!!
Looks awesome. Hope this plugin will be available very soon :D
Thanks. I think it is close to be ready to release, but may be I'll release a public beta version first. Alpha testing period was (is) very productive, thanks to alpha testing group and Planetside staff, but public testing version would be useful too.

Quote from: bobbystahr on October 04, 2015, 03:02:27 PM
Is this going to be a 3rd party add in, or included in the next TG? Awesome btw!

It will be available for free for all users of Terragen, but will be available separatly from Terragen.

Quote from: TheBadger on October 04, 2015, 03:18:19 PM
is the water the water shader or color only?

It is color on these pics. Technically it is a Surface shader masked by flow map (processed by Color adjust shader) generated by erosion shader, so you can link Water shader to it as a Child node and get a water.

Quote from: Chris on October 04, 2015, 06:53:07 PM
That is overall very impressive. It may be direct use but still, it gives a basic idea of what could serve as rivers although in this case there would be a more clamped water flow coming from the higher slopes and the main river would be more smooth and not so rough. Combine that with what Ulco was doing then there are better possibilities here.

Well, by "direct use" I meant processing of original terrain by this shader (unlikely Ulco's experiments with displacement from maps), but there is some further processing by, for example, Warp shaders to get this rough look. It can be disabled to achieve a less rough rivers. Of course there are many other limitations preventing getting a good rivers. After all, it is my first attempt of procedural erosion. :)

Daniil.
Title: Re: Erosion --- rivers
Post by: bobbystahr on October 05, 2015, 02:16:47 AM
Thanks for that Daniil, that 'bout answers all my questions anyway...Great work on this btw...as mainly a program user folks who can hand roll stuff blow my mind.
Title: Re: Erosion --- rivers
Post by: AP on October 05, 2015, 02:17:53 AM
Well, for your first attempt it certainly is intriguing and enticing to see such results on a procedural level as erosion goes. Free? That is quite generous to say the least.    :)
Title: Re: Erosion --- rivers
Post by: Daniil on October 05, 2015, 02:30:32 AM
Quote from: Chris on October 04, 2015, 06:53:07 PM
That is overall very impressive. It may be direct use but still, it gives a basic idea of what could serve as rivers although in this case there would be a more clamped water flow coming from the higher slopes and the main river would be more smooth and not so rough.

Here is another render with all warping disabled. Less rough rivers.
May be the truth lies somewhere in the middle.  :)

Quote from: Chris on October 05, 2015, 02:17:53 AM
Free? That is quite generous to say the least.    :)

I just don't feel that it is right to ask money for it because it is quite inconvinient and unrealistic for regular use. :)

Daniil.

Title: Re: Erosion --- rivers
Post by: Dune on October 05, 2015, 02:35:49 AM
Those rivers look very, very good! I know it will probably be hard to change, but some higher rivers are wider than lower down. They probably get wider because of the valley width or slope at that location. For stills you can choose a good spot, for animation it will be harder to circumvent the 'wrong' rivers. Btw. Daniil, now that you're here; did you check alpha forum? I think the latest is an older version than the one before.
Title: Re: Erosion --- rivers
Post by: Daniil on October 05, 2015, 02:55:59 AM
Quote from: Dune on October 05, 2015, 02:35:49 AM
Those rivers look very, very good! I know it will probably be hard to change, but some higher rivers are wider than lower down.

It is quite strange indeed, I'll try to figure why.

Daniil.
Title: Re: Erosion --- rivers
Post by: mhaze on October 05, 2015, 04:29:30 AM
Just seen this.  I'm hopping up and down I'm so desperate to get my hands on this!
Title: Re: Erosion --- rivers
Post by: AP on October 05, 2015, 05:25:26 AM
Quote from: blinkfrog on October 05, 2015, 02:30:32 AM
Quote from: Chris on October 04, 2015, 06:53:07 PM
That is overall very impressive. It may be direct use but still, it gives a basic idea of what could serve as rivers although in this case there would be a more clamped water flow coming from the higher slopes and the main river would be more smooth and not so rough.

Here is another render with all warping disabled. Less rough rivers.
May be the truth lies somewhere in the middle.  :)

Quote from: Chris on October 05, 2015, 02:17:53 AM
Free? That is quite generous to say the least.    :)

I just don't feel that it is right to ask money for it because it is quite inconvinient and unrealistic for regular use. :)

Daniil.

I can't argue with that.    :D
Title: Re: Erosion --- rivers
Post by: otakar on October 05, 2015, 03:46:54 PM
I am at a loss for words. This will be epic. Can't wait.
Title: Re: Erosion --- rivers
Post by: TheBadger on October 05, 2015, 04:18:36 PM
 :)
Title: Re: Erosion --- rivers
Post by: Daniil on October 31, 2015, 05:44:33 AM
Better rivers picture using recently renewed maps.
Title: Re: Erosion --- rivers
Post by: AP on October 31, 2015, 07:35:37 AM
The impression of small streams turning into rivers draining into lakes is quite impressive. 

Besides that, i noticed that the deposition is much more prominent and it almost looks more built-up along the slopes. Where there changes made there?
Title: Re: Erosion --- rivers
Post by: Dune on October 31, 2015, 09:26:58 AM
Fine rivers, Daniil! I haven't tested your latest file yet, but I will.
Title: Re: Erosion --- rivers
Post by: Daniil on October 31, 2015, 03:09:00 PM
Chris, erosion shader has parameter "Deposition amount" which is set to a high value in this scene.

Thanks Ulco, your trick with added deposition derived from flow map works fine at the landscape with high deposition amount.

Daniil.
Title: Re: Erosion --- rivers
Post by: AP on October 31, 2015, 07:18:13 PM
Those results looks rather realistic. The sedimentation morphology.

How are the calculation times on such a high value?
Title: Re: Erosion --- rivers
Post by: inkydigit on October 31, 2015, 09:15:00 PM
Can't wait to try Daniil!
These look amazing!
:)
J
Title: Re: Erosion --- rivers
Post by: Daniil on November 01, 2015, 03:40:38 AM
Quote from: Chris on October 31, 2015, 07:18:13 PM
Those results looks rather realistic. The sedimentation morphology.
How are the calculation times on such a high value?
Deposition amount has almost no any effect on the calculation times.
Current deposition algorithm is very simple and doesn't use any modeling of sediment transport.
Rendering time of this particular scene is 11:40 on my old Mac Pro 8x2.26 (quite close to a modern quadcore i7@2.8 by performance).
Re-rendering time is 7:15 because of erosion cache was filled already.
Title: Re: Erosion --- rivers
Post by: AP on November 01, 2015, 04:57:39 AM
Very interesting.   
Title: Re: Erosion --- rivers
Post by: Daniil on November 01, 2015, 06:33:38 AM
Quote from: Chris on November 01, 2015, 04:57:39 AM
Very interesting.
Well, you asked for a bigger sedimantation.  ;D Something like this?
Title: Re: Erosion --- rivers
Post by: AP on November 01, 2015, 06:51:15 AM
Yes!   :D
Title: Re: Erosion --- rivers
Post by: Kadri on November 01, 2015, 07:58:04 AM

Sweet.
Title: Re: Erosion --- rivers
Post by: mhaze on November 01, 2015, 09:01:01 AM
Gamechanger :D
Title: Re: Erosion --- rivers
Post by: AP on November 07, 2015, 12:09:51 AM
This also would be great to become reality. As far as i am aware, no one has succeed with this yet.
Title: Re: Erosion --- rivers
Post by: mhaze on November 07, 2015, 05:03:22 AM
This is possible with inverted crater shaders or with simple shape shader or displacable objects or clever use of power fractals colour shaders and using simple shader to create the grooves. Dune can probably come up with several more ways.
Title: Re: Erosion --- rivers
Post by: AP on November 07, 2015, 05:16:02 AM
Maybe that idea could be cleverly blended along with the Procedural erosion?
Title: Re: Erosion --- rivers
Post by: Dune on November 07, 2015, 08:11:31 AM
I think it's quite possible, especially with the erosion shader, using the deposition mask.
Title: Re: Erosion --- rivers
Post by: AP on November 07, 2015, 08:39:38 AM
Right, i think so because all it is basically is deposition but just tighter and higher near the slope along the same path as the narrow fluvial channels. Another name for this might be an Alluvial fan.
Title: Re: Erosion --- rivers
Post by: Daniil on November 07, 2015, 03:48:39 PM
As for such talus piles, they aren't generated by erosion shader directly. Maybe it is possible with some clever use of masks/maps, but  shader doesn't produce it because of very simple deposition algorithm used in shader. Some early experiments with deposition gave similar effect, but there were other problems, so I decided to stick with simpler deposition algorithm, which doesn't model sediment transport.

I hope to get better sedimentation and deposition effects in my future works.
Title: Re: Erosion --- rivers
Post by: AP on November 07, 2015, 07:21:38 PM
I am sure someone will think of a cleaver way around the issue, at least for now. It would present a nice challenge.