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General => Image Sharing => Topic started by: Dune on June 05, 2016, 03:06:08 AM

Title: Water
Post by: Dune on June 05, 2016, 03:06:08 AM
Inspired by Hannes' latest terrific render. First one doesn't have any ground details, btw.
Title: Re: Water
Post by: Hannes on June 05, 2016, 04:35:35 AM
Looks fantastic, Ulco!!
Funny, right after you wrote that you were planning to do some water again, I thought I might give it a try as well. I'm animating something atm.
How did you get the more transparent (backlit) parts of the peaks of the waves?
Title: Re: Water
Post by: mhaze on June 05, 2016, 05:09:04 AM
Amazing light on/in those waves!
Title: Re: Water
Post by: Kadri on June 05, 2016, 05:20:34 AM

The lights are great on the waves.
Title: Re: Water
Post by: masonspappy on June 05, 2016, 08:21:53 AM
Really nice!!
Are you using just water shader or something else?
Title: Re: Water
Post by: bobbystahr on June 05, 2016, 10:00:41 AM
Quote from: Hannes on June 05, 2016, 04:35:35 AM

How did you get the more transparent (backlit) parts of the peaks of the waves?

I was gonna ask that and if it was an improvement in TG 4.   Ulco is an Alpha tester?
Title: Re: Water
Post by: bobbystahr on June 05, 2016, 10:02:05 AM
Brilliant Ulco, see my comment /reply to Hannes
Title: Re: Water
Post by: Lady of the Lake on June 05, 2016, 10:40:25 AM
Amazing stuff.
Title: Re: Water
Post by: DocCharly65 on June 05, 2016, 11:49:18 AM
Excellent, Ulco!

...and of course I am as curious as Bobby and Hannes...  ;)
I can't imagine that there is a glass- or water shader playing a role?
Title: Re: Water
Post by: Oshyan on June 05, 2016, 05:28:19 PM
It is, of course, a water (or glass) shader. That's the only thing that can do real transparency and refraction in Terragen. There is no notable change in this in Terragen 4.

- Oshyan
Title: Re: Water
Post by: Dune on June 06, 2016, 02:51:39 AM
Sorry Oshyan, but there's not really a water shader (nor glass shader) in here, except for the smaller waves pattern (but with no reflectivity/transparency). I will spill the beans, as you are all so enthusiastic  ;) It's a default shader with translucency and a bit of luminosity basically driven by the whites of the wave PF (so, the higher parts), on top of that a reflective shader, and a more or less changed foam from Oleg's file. Basically.
Title: Re: Water
Post by: DocCharly65 on June 06, 2016, 04:07:38 AM
Translucency can do THIS??!! wow, cool!
And good to know.
Title: Re: Water
Post by: mhaze on June 06, 2016, 04:37:12 AM
Clever and good to know.
Title: Re: Water
Post by: Kadri on June 06, 2016, 05:00:28 AM
Quote from: Dune on June 06, 2016, 02:51:39 AM
Sorry Oshyan, but there's not really a water shader (nor glass shader) in here, except for the smaller waves pattern (but with no reflectivity/transparency). I will spill the beans, as you are all so enthusiastic  ;) It's a default shader with translucency and a bit of luminosity basically driven by the whites of the wave PF (so, the higher parts), on top of that a reflective shader, and a more or less changed foam from Oleg's file. Basically.

Thinking about the render times i was curious about this. Nice method Ulco.
Title: Re: Water
Post by: Tangled-Universe on June 06, 2016, 02:11:16 PM
Very nice effect Ulco and cool/clever technique for this.
I guess many, including me, had a "yes of course" moment when reading how you did it :)
Title: Re: Water
Post by: Jo Kariboo on June 06, 2016, 04:01:13 PM
Very good results again! Realist wave!
Title: Re: Water
Post by: Oshyan on June 06, 2016, 04:23:32 PM
Hah, well I stand corrected (in part). Well done.

- Oshyan
Title: Re: Water
Post by: bobbystahr on June 07, 2016, 12:01:43 AM
Quote from: Dune on June 06, 2016, 02:51:39 AM
Sorry Oshyan, but there's not really a water shader (nor glass shader) in here, except for the smaller waves pattern (but with no reflectivity/transparency). I will spill the beans, as you are all so enthusiastic  ;) It's a default shader with translucency and a bit of luminosity basically driven by the whites of the wave PF (so, the higher parts), on top of that a reflective shader, and a more or less changed foam from Oleg's file. Basically.

fuggin brilliant, you are the master Ulco
Title: Re: Water
Post by: luvsmuzik on June 07, 2016, 10:00:59 AM
So the waves are not generated by a water shader at all? I was wondering about the decay tint color if it is. What does lime green color in decay tint do anyway? Simply please.
Title: Re: Water
Post by: Dune on June 07, 2016, 12:48:07 PM
It tints the water the deeper it is. Simple enough?  ;)
Title: Re: Water
Post by: bobbystahr on June 07, 2016, 12:58:04 PM
 ;)
Title: Re: Water
Post by: Dune on June 08, 2016, 07:57:16 AM
Again, inspired by Hannes, and curious if I could make it work (though I don't like working on animations, as you have to wait until the sequence is rendered). For foam to work nicely, there should be some kind of delay after it is formed by the highest peaks, so they die out slower than the ridges subside (and gather in clinging patches which are independantly blown away by wind, pffff). Needs blue math, I guess.
Title: Re: Water
Post by: bobbystahr on June 08, 2016, 08:38:04 AM
Holy Smokes, that's not photographic ? Absolutely the best CG water I've seen today...or ever!!!!
Title: Re: Water
Post by: Dune on June 08, 2016, 08:51:04 AM
Thank you, Bobby. Not even a water shader  ;) and extremely low-res.
Title: Re: Water
Post by: Hannes on June 08, 2016, 09:11:14 AM
That looks amazing, Ulco. Especially the first one. How did you do it?
Title: Re: Water
Post by: bobbystahr on June 08, 2016, 09:31:42 AM
Quote from: Dune on June 08, 2016, 08:51:04 AM
Thank you, Bobby. Not even a water shader  ;) and extremely low-res.

That in itself is mind blowing...must have sped up the render times.
Title: Re: Water
Post by: bobbystahr on June 08, 2016, 09:32:32 AM
Quote from: Hannes on June 08, 2016, 09:11:14 AM
That looks amazing, Ulco. Especially the first one. How did you do it?

Hear! Hear!   calls for a tute....this is one of the "grail techniques" along the lines of understanding blue nodes for those of us without a clue,
Title: Re: Water
Post by: Hannes on June 08, 2016, 09:55:44 AM
Quote from: bobbystahr on June 08, 2016, 09:32:32 AM
Quote from: Hannes on June 08, 2016, 09:11:14 AM
That looks amazing, Ulco. Especially the first one. How did you do it?

Hear! Hear!   calls for a tute....this is one of the "grail techniques" along the lines of understanding blue nodes for those of us without a clue,

In the meantime I found my own way to do it (no blue nodes! ;D ;D ;D), but it's always interesting, what others did to get similar results.
Title: Re: Water
Post by: Kadri on June 08, 2016, 10:32:49 AM

Very nice tests Ulco :)
Title: Re: Water
Post by: luvsmuzik on June 08, 2016, 11:00:24 AM
Great!
Title: Re: Water
Post by: j meyer on June 08, 2016, 12:30:42 PM
 8) :)
Title: Re: Water
Post by: bobbystahr on June 08, 2016, 01:50:33 PM
Actually when I typed 'along the lines of understanding blue nodes for those of us without a clue,' it was a qualifier re: difficulty to achieve success with as I know Ulco rarely uses em

I wouldn't worry as you seem to have it down as well....
Title: Re: Water
Post by: AP on June 08, 2016, 05:11:57 PM
Very nice water movement, believable enough and the shader experiments are very clever. 
Title: Re: Water
Post by: DocCharly65 on June 09, 2016, 02:49:36 AM
Absolutely convincing results! Great, Ulco!
Title: Re: Water
Post by: Dune on June 09, 2016, 08:18:47 AM
Another test.
Title: Re: Water
Post by: bla bla 2 on June 09, 2016, 08:22:43 AM
It change.  ;D But i like.
Title: Re: Water
Post by: KlausK on June 09, 2016, 08:37:15 AM
Very well done!
Having a go at this since you and Hannes started to post your results myself.
But I am far from anything good looking still atm. Especially the surfacing side of things.
cheers, Klaus
Title: Re: Water
Post by: Dune on June 09, 2016, 08:48:39 AM
The problem here was to get it into an mp4 (h.264 encoder). It didn't seem to convert like the earlier tests, while they were also bmp's into avi (virtualdub). Strange, but another one is rendering now, see how that goes. I wonder if it's possible to sit one object on the plane/water, which bobs with the displacement. I tried a pop of ships, but at a certain frame suddenly a second ship sprouted from the waves  ???
Title: Re: Water
Post by: bla bla 2 on June 09, 2016, 09:46:02 AM
you can do the animation to see what happens and I spend my file ?

http://www.planetside.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,20667.msg205623.html#msg205623

Cheers,
Title: Re: Water
Post by: DannyG on June 09, 2016, 07:44:33 PM
Nice work Ulco
Title: Re: Water
Post by: masonspappy on June 10, 2016, 04:23:13 AM
Damn nice work!
Title: Re: Water
Post by: Dune on June 10, 2016, 08:08:37 AM
I tried to combine water shader and default shader to get some transparency, but rendertime went way up, so I stick to default shader. But for perfection that would work.
The problem with default shader is that the water is of course not really transparent, so adding some dappled light on a 'bottom' is not really working, nor would putting a pier in. And the translucency throws some weird 'shadows' sometimes. It's only useful for particular circumstances.
I don't know which I posted, as I threw around the titles, so here are some extra tests.
Title: Re: Water
Post by: Dune on June 10, 2016, 08:34:39 AM
And nr. 6.
Tut in short: Power fractal slightly stretched ridges, color only (reduce roughness, and uncheck clamping), animate Z and Y in a transform shader (I used 2 animated transform shaders, where one rotated the fractal about 20ยบ, multiplied the outcome to get waves to peak where they interact, you can also use 'add' for less impact), feed into displacement shader for waves. Output of the (multiplied) transform shaders feeds into color adjust shader, where you adjust the peaks. Feed into the translucency and luminosity of a default shader, which also bears the water colors (subtle bluish and green); I had translucency at 2, luminosity at 01. The displacement shader I output to a surface shader, which bears the default shader as child.
So now the tops of the waves light up. You can use the same, or another, color adjust shader to define the peaks for the foam, so feed that into a surface shader's mask input, where you can add a 'foam' fractal as a child. That surface shader of course goes after the default shader. Then feed that output into a reflective shader, and into a lake or plane.
Title: Re: Water
Post by: Dune on June 10, 2016, 09:06:59 AM
And 7. I've had it again for a while now.
Title: Re: Water
Post by: luvsmuzik on June 10, 2016, 09:32:41 AM
Good wave and foam dissipation roll on forefront wave in front of the rock! Good sun sparkles!
Title: Re: Water
Post by: Hannes on June 10, 2016, 10:30:12 AM
Wow, especially the last one is incredible!!!
Title: Re: Water
Post by: bobbystahr on June 10, 2016, 11:26:50 AM
Quote from: Hannes on June 10, 2016, 10:30:12 AM
Wow, especially the last one is incredible!!!


Echo.....echo.....echo.....echo.....echo.....
Title: Re: Water
Post by: ajcgi on June 10, 2016, 11:35:20 AM
Well, what can we say? This has me intrigued. Looks awesome.
Title: Re: Water
Post by: KyL on June 10, 2016, 12:48:30 PM
Really nice.

The fact that the foam makes sens with the shape of the wave is impressive. Well done!
Title: Re: Water
Post by: DocCharly65 on June 10, 2016, 01:09:41 PM
Incredible!
Impressive!
Great!
Title: Re: Water
Post by: Oshyan on June 10, 2016, 02:20:06 PM
Indeed, test-7 is excellent.

- Oshyan
Title: Re: Water
Post by: masonspappy on June 10, 2016, 05:29:15 PM
yeah, that's damn impressive.
Title: Re: Water
Post by: bobbystahr on June 10, 2016, 06:32:39 PM
I think that you're going to have to make a set of these for sale at NWDA, I can rarely afford to actually buy stuff but I'd save for a set of these.
Title: Re: Water
Post by: Hetzen on June 10, 2016, 07:23:52 PM
Lovely work Ulco. There's some head scratching going on there working those masks out.  :D
Title: Re: Water
Post by: bobbystahr on June 10, 2016, 07:36:39 PM
Quote from: Hetzen on June 10, 2016, 07:23:52 PM
Lovely work Ulco. There's some head scratching going on there working those masks out.  :D

heh heh, wish I'd said that
Title: Re: Water
Post by: AP on June 10, 2016, 11:20:35 PM
Nice work there. That last test certainly is quite a neat result.
Title: Re: Water
Post by: Dune on June 11, 2016, 03:20:22 AM
Thanks guys. It was a nice mental challenge, but there are things I can't get to work properly, like you can see here. Foam streaming down the rock. I gathered the height mask could be displaced by using the waves a a basis, so when the wave subsides, foam streams after it, but I couldn't get the height mask properly done without using final position, which cannot be displaced. It's not a great deal to me, but it would be nice if that would work.
Furthermore, the vertically animated foam off the rock doesn't really go vertical  >:(

And I guess a nice feature request would be to have the possibility for one object to sit on something (waves/plane), and can be 'populated' (or updated) with every frame, so you don't need a (not properly working) population of one instance to follow the waves.

The positive about not using a water shader (nor a compute terrain) is the speed. This animation took 2.5 hours (detail 0.4 AA3).
Title: Re: Water
Post by: KlausK on June 11, 2016, 07:53:51 AM
Abandoned on the ocean and his only companion the gallows. Poor lad on the rock wasn`t liked very much, it seems...
Even with the flaws around the rock the results are beautiful!
cheers, Klaus
Title: Re: Water
Post by: bobbystahr on June 11, 2016, 08:58:20 AM
Quote from: KlausK on June 11, 2016, 07:53:51 AM
Abandoned on the ocean and his only companion the gallows. Poor lad on the rock wasn`t liked very much, it seems...
Even with the flaws around the rock the results are beautiful!
cheers, Klaus



hee hee hee, and I agree.
Title: Re: Water
Post by: Kadri on June 11, 2016, 09:03:16 AM

Still interesting test Ulco. The speed is really great too.
Title: Re: Water
Post by: Dune on June 12, 2016, 02:08:07 AM
This will be my last for now. I still need to find a way to direct the animated height of the wave into the height of the foam dribbling down the rock (preferably with a delay of some frames). Seems so simple, but I probably can't get it to work as I use no compute terrain.
I did use some warp to bend the waves around the rock a bit.
Title: Re: Water
Post by: DocCharly65 on June 12, 2016, 08:52:42 AM
Whatever you want to make better, Ulco... I have seldom seen better animations of ocean water in general... and never rendered with Terragen!  :)
Title: Re: Water
Post by: Hannes on June 12, 2016, 10:44:47 AM
I think the foam down the rock already looks quite good. As far as I remember the water running down the crevices of such a rock after a wave has hit it, runs down quite randomly depending on the depth of the crevices, so in my opinion this is already great. Maybe too much correctness would look unnatural?
Title: Re: Water
Post by: knoplund on June 12, 2016, 11:19:12 AM
Supergood. Love how real the dancing reflections on the water feel. At least the poor guy on the rock died with a stunning view. :D
But I see what you mean about the water not matching the draining water on the stones... if it is unfixable for now, you could simply rise the sea level a little more and hide the details behind some light mist/fog, lower the sun a little more... :D But I guess that wouldn't fit the style you are after, nor the intention behind you doing this animation.

As I said, really nicely done. Will try to recreate. :)
Title: Re: Water
Post by: Dune on June 12, 2016, 11:58:08 AM
No, I think the foam running down needs to be better and can be done better. I will get it some day.... (hiding is no option).
Title: Re: Water
Post by: Dune on June 13, 2016, 06:05:41 AM
That day has come (I think). Some issues still. The pumping water around the rock is a bit overkill, foam isn't hard enough, etc.
Title: Re: Water
Post by: Rumburak on June 13, 2016, 08:55:45 AM
Very impressive. Never thought that this would be possible with Terragen. Is there a chance that you release your water setup on NWDA (or somewhere else)?
Title: Re: Water
Post by: Dune on June 13, 2016, 10:12:20 AM
I might do that.

Here's an updated version. I'm not quite satisfied with the foam running down the rock, so I stretched the fractal a bit more and sped up the 4D, also stretched the wave mask for it a bit, so it stays longer (hoping that works). And added foam remains. I was hoping to get some sort of tails behind the foam activated by the ridged part of the waves, but I don't quite know how I can achieve that, as that foam is masked by the waves, so as soon as they die out the tails will die out too. Now I added some independant tails in the next version.

EDIT: Just got an idea; stretch the wave mask in Y for the tail remains....

Btw. detail 0.4 AA2, so the whole lot rendered in 80 minutes.
Title: Re: Water
Post by: bobbystahr on June 13, 2016, 10:38:29 AM
more impressive with each iteration and if I had got to a few previous versions back I would have said, "Perfect, a final"...I love the way this has grown before our eyes...thanks for that as well.
Title: Re: Water
Post by: Dune on June 13, 2016, 12:07:39 PM
It's fun to think this out. Made a mistake now in the sequence of masks, quite funny actually  ;)
Title: Re: Water
Post by: bla bla 2 on June 13, 2016, 12:41:29 PM
With a the sample shader in form circle ?
Title: Re: Water
Post by: bobbystahr on June 13, 2016, 01:00:40 PM
Quote from: Dune on June 13, 2016, 12:07:39 PM
It's fun to think this out. Made a mistake now in the sequence of masks, quite funny actually  ;)

Hee hee, amusing indeed. I quite like that...in hour 11+ on my bridge....
Title: Re: Water
Post by: Hannes on June 13, 2016, 02:00:11 PM
Quote from: Dune on June 13, 2016, 12:07:39 PM
It's fun to think this out. Made a mistake now in the sequence of masks, quite funny actually  ;)

Hahahaaaah!  ;D ;D ;D First I didn't notice the displaced rock, because the foam running down looks awesome!!
Great work, Ulco!!
Title: Re: Water
Post by: Kadri on June 13, 2016, 02:50:14 PM
Yes good and funny :)
Title: Re: Water
Post by: luvsmuzik on June 13, 2016, 10:56:49 PM
Because I am new here....has he ever done an earthquake??....just wondered.

Very good stuff!

Also, do your animations only play windows format, or is my tablet outdated already? It's an Apple.
Title: Re: Water
Post by: Dune on June 14, 2016, 01:55:25 AM
Yes Bastien, the island is a simple shape circle+added fakestones, and the mask to shape the height of the foam (coming from the wave) running down that rock was attached as child to that rock, instead of as a mask (one step for me... a huge step for the rock).
And I don't know about Mac, it's just an mp4.
An earthquake with some shattered rocks coming down, etc. Might be fun to make. Possible, I'd say.
Title: Re: Water
Post by: Dune on June 14, 2016, 11:27:44 AM
I don't think I posted this version.
Title: Re: Water
Post by: Dune on June 14, 2016, 11:55:34 AM
And this one just finished. The foam splatters are a bit cartoony, but I probably overdid their displacement.
Title: Re: Water
Post by: Kadri on June 14, 2016, 12:06:15 PM

Interesting effect.
Title: Re: Water
Post by: bobbystahr on June 14, 2016, 01:55:23 PM
Couldn't figure out those birds till I put glasses on, thought they were a glitch....they're reflections right? The one that dances on the island is quite distracting but the others seem to work well.
Title: Re: Water
Post by: bla bla 2 on June 14, 2016, 02:09:17 PM
I find the good the last video are cool.   :D
Title: Re: Water
Post by: Dune on June 15, 2016, 01:53:07 AM
Reflections? It's just a pop of birds sitting on the slightly subdued animated waves.
Title: Re: Water
Post by: bobbystahr on June 15, 2016, 02:41:57 AM
Quote from: Dune on June 15, 2016, 01:53:07 AM
Reflections? It's just a pop of birds sitting on the slightly subdued animated waves.

O K, I see that now...that one in front of the rock comes off looking clumsily comped to me...but the water is wonderful
Title: Re: Water
Post by: DocCharly65 on June 15, 2016, 02:50:07 AM
Gets better and better!

I don't think the foam splatters are too cartoony. I only have the feeling they fall back into the rock.

When will the official Terragen ocean waves seminar with you and Hannes be started? I want to order a ticket  ;D
Title: Re: Water
Post by: Dune on June 15, 2016, 09:03:28 AM
I consider putting it up at NWDA for a decent price (to get some $ reward for the days I spent on this), but I need to adjust some settings and add explanations and such.

Any interest, or can I save myself the trouble?
Title: Re: Water
Post by: DocCharly65 on June 15, 2016, 09:10:48 AM
Do it! I already bought it (in my mind so far  ;)  )


Today in the morning I just looked around in the NDWA Store and saw almost the same canyon like I worked on for weeks...
I should check the shop more often since I am more a user than a developer  ;D
Title: Re: Water
Post by: Rumburak on June 15, 2016, 09:14:54 AM
That would be great. DocCharly65 and me = already two customers...  ;)
Title: Re: Water
Post by: bobbystahr on June 15, 2016, 02:17:31 PM
I would make an effort to get the cash for this...
Title: Re: Water
Post by: luvsmuzik on June 15, 2016, 03:33:30 PM
Great! The splatters are awesome! Done without a fluid modifier...using obstacles, inflow, outflow, bubbles, lifetime etc, etc?
Title: Re: Water
Post by: Dune on June 16, 2016, 03:17:07 AM
2.5 customers, mmm. I won't get rich this way  :-\
Anyway, here's the final result so far (and finished for me, going to do something else). The two stills are a versions with transparency merged in, but that obviously takes longer to render. The mp4 is just a default shader+reflection. And yes, it's straight out of TG. There's a placeholder for gulls of other flying stuff, but I switched it off here.
Title: Re: Water
Post by: Kadri on June 16, 2016, 03:19:20 AM

From a certain distance it would certainly work Ulco. Very nice.
Title: Re: Water
Post by: ajcgi on June 16, 2016, 05:28:13 AM
This really is studio quality stuff. Really interesting technical studies.
Title: Re: Water
Post by: bobbystahr on June 16, 2016, 01:11:52 PM
This is as good as I've seen yet, I'd give it 5 stars in a review....love the flares off the bloom on the waves; looking forward to that in 4 for sure.
The perfect big splash made me smile it's so good.... and the draining water is convincing.
Title: Re: Water
Post by: zaxxon on June 16, 2016, 07:27:50 PM
Maestro!