Hello,
i´ve tried to make a cloudy sky cause I wanted to see the quality.
Get some low level generic clouds with 50000 Km (Localized):
Optimisation: Highest Detail, Quality: 3
Atmosphere settings are : Quality: 60 Samples
[attachimg=1]
All other setting see picture:
[attachimg=2]
The Clouds are still grainy and take 18 Minutes to render! :(
Can anybody tell me the correct setup to have ungrainy clouds?
In terragen 2-3 the problem was fixed by tweaking the settings in atmosphere and clouds.
I have a six Core(3,8GHZ) Computer with 32 GB of Ram and Nvidia GTX 1080
Thanks for your help.
Turn your AA up and make sure defer Atmo is turned on............that's a good place to start. :)
Quality 3 causes the 18 minutes. Put it down to 1-1.5. (Unless it gives more grains.)
Double(or more) the atmo settings. That should smooth the grain. Perhaps gave a little more light as the scene is very dark and the cloud looks super thick. You can also loose up the coverage so some little light can come in. That can help also.
Quote from: yossam on September 08, 2016, 08:43:22 AM
Turn your AA up and make sure defer Atmo is turned on............that's a good place to start. :)
I can remember someone has telling me not to tick defer atmo on when you tweak atmosphere and clouds.
"low level generic clouds with 50000 Km" Those are the new V3 clouds so old habits do not apply unfortunately.
Have a look here for the V3 new clouds:
http://www.planetside.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,21873.msg220038.html#msg220038
Quote from: Kadri on September 08, 2016, 08:52:07 AM
"low level generic clouds with 50000 Km" Those are the new V3 clouds so old habits do not apply unfortunately.
Have a look here for the V3 new clouds:
http://www.planetside.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,21873.msg220038.html#msg220038
Thanks for all of your advices, but where i can find the noise Threshold? It is described by Oshyan at the Thread above:
QuoteThe key is it requires different (not necessarily more) knowledge and understanding of how to tweak render settings, a change of perspective so to speak. If you want to use higher AA for e.g. plants this is OK, just *use more adaptive AA* and *set the noise threshold appropriately*
"... but where i can find the noise Threshold?"
I wouldn't look first there (Oshyan?).
Use detail at 1 for clouds and atmo samples at 16 first. In the render node use detail 0.7 and AA 6 first.
Render a small crop of the sky and see what happens. If you still have noise use higher AA and if needed higher detail.
You can as Oshyan said try some higher Atmo samples too but slowly.
You can find the "noise Threshold" options in "Render node" then "Edit sampling" .
And don't forget that there are additional settings in the render node "GI Settings"+"GI in Clouds" tab.
Hope this helps.
By the way i had not much time to play with those new clouds but you might get some faster render times by using fewer voxels too.
Thank you Kadri, that helped me out. :)
But the render Time is now fourty minutes. Quite a bit i think.
Thanks for your time and help i appreciate it :)
You might get some faster render times with a little more tweaking maybe.
But with grainy clouds-atmos it is hard sometimes.
For a still image it doesn't look so long to me.
Depends on the resolution etc. too of course.
Quote from: Kadri on September 08, 2016, 10:29:45 AM
You might get maybe some faster render times with a little more tweaking maybe.
But with grainy clouds-atmos it is hard sometimes.
For a still image it doesn't look so long to me.
Depends on the resolution etc. too of course.
I see. But in Terragen 3 i´ve made some scenes with a lot going on there. Dark and heavy Clouds with rain and a lot of grass as an object, Trees and so on.
Took me 20 Minutes to render without any grain. But Version 4 with no objects in it just the clouds, oh boy....
Not that good. Where are the improvements in rendering?
From what i see in the threads i think to get nearly the same results you need to use the old V2 clouds
or heavy tweaking and using the new clouds rightly.
I for one am very happy because the rendering speed of objects is amazingly faster in TG 4 .
So it depends on your scene too. I think we need a little more time to adjust to the new things, settings.
We will hear more from Oshyan and Matt in those aspects for sure.
For me it is not only the render time.
I think the way the RTP works (even in its limited V1 version) for example is great from a performance aspect at working with clouds.
Can you tell me where i can get the V 2 Clouds?
Is this the Generic one?
I think "Atmosphere"+"Add cloud layer" first 4 options are the old V2 clouds.
If you right click and choose "Create Atmosphere" it is more apparent.
Quote from: Kadri on September 08, 2016, 11:47:27 AM
I think "Atmosphere"+"Add cloud layer" first 4 options are the old V2 clouds.
If you right click and choose "Create Atmosphere" it is more apparent.
Thank you so far, i will try it out. Great to have you here on the Forum.
By the way was "defer Atmo" on? Looks like we need it for the new clouds as Yossam said above.
I just made a test with Voxels.
Render time was a little faster with 50 million Voxels then with "0.05" millions.
Weird. I supposed it would be opposite.
Quote from: Kadri on September 08, 2016, 11:58:36 AM
By the way was "defer Atmo" on? Looks like we need it for the new clouds as Yossam said above.
Yes it was on and off, both the same results.
Trying out V 2 Clouds and they are much faster to render with absolutly no grain in there. :-)
Whats so new in V3? You get always flat and unsatisfied results.
Thought this will us all blow away, but.....nothing....
[attachimg=1]
Looks much better with a render time like 4 Minutes instead of poor Cloud using V3 and 18 Minutes ;-)
Depends on what you wanted.
The image below is all settings at default with only a new seed and lower sun position.
You can't find this so easy and good looking in any other program.
Looks indeed nice ;-)
Which preset you have used?
Wish i remember Peter. It was from the first beta. Not even sure that i have saved it.
I searched a little but because of my HD crash and the ongoing short animation ı have only the animation files on my HD for now.
But it was really only what i said. Reseeded 5-10 times and lowered the sun.
That is the great side of those clouds.
By the way you said you tried with "defer atmo" on and off and there was no difference.
Not sure but that could mean that you could use lower settings with "Defer atmo" enabled and still get noise free atmo in the image.
And faster render times (still the easy clouds aren't so fast as the old ones).
Just curious if you want you could share the file here for a closer look?
I´ll making a test render like you did with V3 Clouds
Here is something i made with Terragen 3:
I like heavy deep looking clouds. This is why i was so disappointed about Cloud V3.
Not that good but it was good enough for me :-)
[attachimg=1]
I like it. The mood is great.
It´s a pitty but i dont get the realism in the pictures like Ulco did or the other astonishing pictures made with Terragen 3 and 4.
And this is basic cloud model version 3:
12 Minutes for rendering:
Defer Atmo on 16 Samples in Atmosphere Cloud Quality=1
[attach=1]
But if i crank this clouds up like in the "Cloud Burst" Picture above, you dont get any result!
And the grainy poor clouds are back again
It is in the details.
More work on ground and object texture (procedural or image) for example.
If someone doesn't mess with the lighting and atmo too much that realism comes for free in Terragen.
Your image for example would benefit especially from two parts.
The tree texture is too low quality. And the left side could use a little more variation-detail for example.
I think we will see more work from Matt on those clouds. It is apparent from the Change Log.
Yes the Textures in the tree are to low but i dont know where to get those high def. Modells.
Hehe....it never came along for me that automatism like in :
[attach=1]
This is really nice but i´m miles away from those pictures
Have a look here. I haven't used those but i think they are worth a look.
http://trzyde.blogspot.com.tr/p/freebies_5.html
The new "v3" cloud shading model is much more realistic in most cases. But we left the older "v2" model in both because it renders faster and in case some people prefer it for some situations (and for backward compatibility). We will continue to improve the v3 model and its controllability. But if you prefer results from v2, just use v2. v3 should be able to get better results than v2 in almost every case, but of course the render time will be higher (and you will have to use different settings and techniques because they work differently). Better results don't magically come at the same render time in most cases. ;)
But remember, v3 clouds are the default in TG4, Defer Atmo is *enabled by default* in TG4 (and there's a reason for this), and finally, there are 2 separate major sources of noise for skies: atmosphere, and clouds. You want to try to figure out where your noise is coming from and then *only* increase samples/quality there. Do not uniformly increase atmo samples and cloud quality unless you're sure both are a source of noise. In the case of the first images in this thread I would guess the main source of noise is *clouds* and would suggest Defer Atmo, AA 4 or 6, and cloud quality 1 to start, with atmo samples at 16.
- Oshyan
Quote from: Oshyan on September 08, 2016, 04:53:42 PM
The new "v3" cloud shading model is much more realistic in most cases. But we left the older "v2" model in both because it renders faster and in case some people prefer it for some situations (and for backward compatibility). We will continue to improve the v3 model and its controllability. But if you prefer results from v2, just use v2. v3 should be able to get better results than v2 in almost every case, but of course the render time will be higher (and you will have to use different settings and techniques because they work differently). Better results don't magically come at the same render time in most cases. ;)
But remember, v3 clouds are the default in TG4, Defer Atmo is *enabled by default* in TG4 (and there's a reason for this), and finally, there are 2 separate major sources of noise for skies: atmosphere, and clouds. You want to try to figure out where your noise is coming from and then *only* increase samples/quality there. Do not uniformly increase atmo samples and cloud quality unless you're sure both are a source of noise. In the case of the first images in this thread I would guess the main source of noise is *clouds* and would suggest Defer Atmo, AA 4 or 6, and cloud quality 1 to start, with atmo samples at 16.
- Oshyan
Hello Oshyan,
thanks for your advice :-) I Appreciate it!
I´ve made the picture at the beginning of this thread with AA 7, CloudQuality: 3, Atmo: 16 Samples and defer on and off
both were the same. I believe the V3 Clouds are made for quick results but when you try to make fat, dark grey stormy clouds this Cloudsystem will fail
cause you dont get the results like in V2. Thats just my opinion. Please dont get mad at me ;-)
Terragen 4 all in all is an amazing Landscape-Creator :-)
Best regards and i wish you a nice weekend.
Peter
Quote from: Kadri on September 08, 2016, 01:37:31 PM
Have a look here. I haven't used those but i think they are worth a look.
http://trzyde.blogspot.com.tr/p/freebies_5.html
Thank you Kadri! I will have a look at it :-)
The intention of v3 clouds is to provide more realistic results in all situations. They may require some improvement on our end (development) to achieve that goal and we'd appreciate specific suggestions and *reference images* to show what should be adjusted. But in general the results already seem to be much more realistic on a consistent basis. They do require different ways of working and different settings than you may be used to with v2 clouds (which required a lot of "hacks" and unintuitive settings, like negative light scattering in some cases), but keep experimenting and hopefully you will find what works for the kinds of things you're trying to create.
- Oshyan
Peter i found the file. Have a look here:
http://www.planetside.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,3691.new.html#new
Quote from: Kadri on September 12, 2016, 10:36:30 PM
Peter i found the file. Have a look here:
http://www.planetside.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,3691.new.html#new
Thanks a lot Kadri! :-)