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General => Terragen Discussion => Topic started by: archonforest on December 17, 2016, 02:36:10 PM

Title: chrome surface
Post by: archonforest on December 17, 2016, 02:36:10 PM
Searched the forum but no real luck thus I ask here. What is the best way to create a surface that reflects like chrome?
I am playing with the reflection shader since a while but nothing similar comes as a chrome.

Title: Re: chrome surface
Post by: Kadri on December 17, 2016, 02:59:26 PM
Maybe this?
http://forums.planetside.co.uk/index.php?topic=5341.new#new
Title: Re: chrome surface
Post by: archonforest on December 17, 2016, 03:16:14 PM
Thx Kadri. I looked at this one today but did not seemed a real chrome surface....well I will download the sample to see it in TG.
Tku again :)
Title: Re: chrome surface
Post by: Kadri on December 17, 2016, 03:24:32 PM

There were-are others. Marc shared some too. But on Ashunder unfortunately.
Title: Re: chrome surface
Post by: archonforest on December 17, 2016, 03:36:02 PM
Yeah got it.
I saw a v-ray render of some balls and first I thought it is not a big deal and I can do this in TG but it looks like harder than i thought. Anyway I will still try to reproduce that image... :D
Title: Re: chrome surface
Post by: Hannes on December 18, 2016, 11:01:01 AM
Just use a totally black surface layer and add a reflective shader as a child layer with "index of refraction" set to 3.

EDIT: you don't need the black surface layer if you want nothing but the chrome. Just connect the reflective shader with the object's surface shader input,
Title: Re: chrome surface
Post by: archonforest on December 18, 2016, 01:03:23 PM
Quote from: Hannes on December 18, 2016, 11:01:01 AM
Just use a totally black surface layer and add a reflective shader as a child layer with "index of refraction" set to 3.

EDIT: you don't need the black surface layer if you want nothing but the chrome. Just connect the reflective shader with the object's surface shader input,

Thank you for the tip.  :)
Is there a way make the specular highligh sharper? Right now it is blurry and seem like no changes I tried so far makes a visible different on it. Like on a very polished reflective ball the highlight would be pretty sharp.
Title: Re: chrome surface
Post by: j meyer on December 18, 2016, 02:01:37 PM
It should be sufficient to set specular roughness to something like 0.05 or even less
to achieve this.
Title: Re: chrome surface
Post by: archonforest on December 18, 2016, 02:13:24 PM
Quote from: j meyer on December 18, 2016, 02:01:37 PM
It should be sufficient to set specular roughness to something like 0.05 or even less
to achieve this.

Thx! 0.015 did the trick. :)

Title: Re: chrome surface
Post by: fleetwood on December 18, 2016, 04:03:39 PM
I find using a refractive index like 9.0 gives a more metallic effect, regardless of the true refractive index of chromium.
examples of refractive index 3.0 and 9.0 on black color surface roughness 0.02
Title: Re: chrome surface
Post by: archonforest on December 18, 2016, 04:19:57 PM
Thx Fleetwood.  ;)

My next problem to solve is the reflection of the nearby ball on the main ball. The reflection is a bit jagged. Playing with the render subdiv settings. Getting a bit smoother reflection but I want to kill all jagged parts. There is an AA section under Render Pixel Sampler. Does anybody played with that?
Title: Re: chrome surface
Post by: Kadri on December 18, 2016, 04:40:29 PM

Not sure about the other options but i think you might have to use the "360 degree detail"
(Render node+Advanced tab+Ray detail region) option too i think.
Title: Re: chrome surface
Post by: Hannes on December 18, 2016, 04:43:06 PM
As far as I remember you need to increase the ray detail multiplier (render subdivision settings) to 1 to get correct reflections. I don't know, if Kadri's tip works kind of similar?!
Title: Re: chrome surface
Post by: AP on December 18, 2016, 06:57:21 PM
I often wonder if there is a way to differentiate the chrome from looking like a mirror surface. Glassy verses metallic.
Title: Re: chrome surface
Post by: Dune on December 19, 2016, 02:25:36 AM
How do you mean that? Chrome is like a mirror, isn't it?
Title: Re: chrome surface
Post by: archonforest on December 19, 2016, 03:09:03 AM
Quote from: Kadri on December 18, 2016, 04:40:29 PM

Not sure about the other options but i think you might have to use the "360 degree detail"
(Render node+Advanced tab+Ray detail region) option too i think.

Tku Kadri. Sounds like a good idea. Checking it now...ops...render time went up to huhhh...way up...well if more calculation happening in theory I might get better results....
I guess I just leave the pc alone to digest it and will report back later. :)
Title: Re: chrome surface
Post by: AP on December 19, 2016, 03:37:15 AM
Quote from: Dune on December 19, 2016, 02:25:36 AM
How do you mean that? Chrome is like a mirror, isn't it?

In many ways yes, however there are subtle differences to each surface. It is difficult to explain but it is the way light interacts with those surfaces. Also, I think a mirror has a stronger reflectance then chrome.

Title: Re: chrome surface
Post by: Hannes on December 19, 2016, 03:45:15 AM
Quote from: AP on December 19, 2016, 03:37:15 AM
In many ways yes, however there are subtle differences to each surface. It is difficult to explain but it is the way light interacts with those surfaces. Also, I think a mirror has a stronger reflectance then chrome.

Maybe you mean, chrome surfaces should have some more imperfections? You could add a very subtle displacement or merge the chrome shader with something else like rust or another chrome shader that is less reflective.
Title: Re: chrome surface
Post by: AP on December 19, 2016, 04:17:10 AM
Also a mirror has a dielectric surface where as chrome has a metallic surface.
Title: Re: chrome surface
Post by: archonforest on December 19, 2016, 04:44:02 AM
Quote from: Hannes on December 18, 2016, 04:43:06 PM
As far as I remember you need to increase the ray detail multiplier (render subdivision settings) to 1 to get correct reflections. I don't know, if Kadri's tip works kind of similar?!

I went up to 3 with the multiplier but the reflection still jagged a lot. What Kadri suggested definitely makes the different but render times goes from 2 min up to 27 :D
Guess this is the price I will have to pay :D
Title: Re: chrome surface
Post by: René on December 19, 2016, 11:04:37 AM
360 Degree detail works fine(Thanks Kadri)

You could play with the reflectivity and reflection tint settings. If you lower reflectivity to 0.5 and increase reflection tint to 40 you will get a lot more reflection without deviated colors, although atmospheric depth will look wrong.
Self reflection will be coarser with each repetition.
I think you will need a fresnel shader to make it look perfect, but i don't know if this is possible in TG.
Title: Re: chrome surface
Post by: archonforest on December 19, 2016, 11:28:29 AM
Thx Rene :)
Nice reflections there! What I try to do is not a real chrome(metal) looking ball but the quality of a chrome reflection. The balls are all colored. I will upload the reference render to show what I am trying to achieve in TG. When I saw this render first I thought I can do this easy in TG...not a big deal...hehe...no I can see it is not that easy... :)
Title: Re: chrome surface
Post by: René on December 19, 2016, 11:52:15 AM
You can pick any color you like in the  reflection color tab(A) Next you enter '40' (B) and the color box may turn white, but that won't affect the way the color renders.
Title: Re: chrome surface
Post by: René on December 19, 2016, 11:54:34 AM
Great for making Christmas balls. Is that what you're after? ;)
Title: Re: chrome surface
Post by: archonforest on December 19, 2016, 12:55:04 PM
Quote from: René on December 19, 2016, 11:54:34 AM
Great for making Christmas balls. Is that what you're after? ;)
No not for xmas balls. Just want to re-create that picture I uploaded before. It was done with V-Ray and I want to see if its possible in TG.
Title: Re: chrome surface
Post by: Hannes on December 19, 2016, 02:32:45 PM
Did I get you right, you're looking for a way to create a shader like in your last image? These billiard balls?
Title: Re: chrome surface
Post by: archonforest on December 19, 2016, 03:18:25 PM
Quote from: Hannes on December 19, 2016, 02:32:45 PM
Did I get you right, you're looking for a way to create a shader like in your last image? These billiard balls?

Yes, I want to create that insanely shiny surface. Then the rest of the image. Blur lights...etc...
I already got a pretty good surface but if u have an idea it will be welcomed big time :)
Title: Re: chrome surface
Post by: Hannes on December 19, 2016, 04:04:31 PM
I'm working on it...
Title: Re: chrome surface
Post by: archonforest on December 19, 2016, 04:14:34 PM
Quote from: Hannes on December 19, 2016, 04:04:31 PM
I'm working on it...
Yipee!
Me too...I got some nice shinny surface by now but there is a ball that is grey and that one is not reflecting anything... >:(  but on the ref picture the gray/white ball have a nice reflection too....hmm. Eagerly waiting to see your set up. :)
Title: Re: chrome surface
Post by: AP on December 19, 2016, 05:34:15 PM
Quote from: René on December 19, 2016, 11:04:37 AM
360 Degree detail works fine(Thanks Kadri)

You could play with the reflectivity and reflection tint settings. If you lower reflectivity to 0.5 and increase reflection tint to 40 you will get a lot more reflection without deviated colors, although atmospheric depth will look wrong.
Self reflection will be coarser with each repetition.
I think you will need a fresnel shader to make it look perfect, but i don't know if this is possible in TG.

It would be nice to effect the fresnel in various ways like more in-depth renders out there. Those results look similar to what I was working but I could never make it look chrome-like enough.
Title: Re: chrome surface
Post by: AP on December 19, 2016, 05:36:25 PM
Quote from: archonforest on December 19, 2016, 11:28:29 AM
Thx Rene :)
Nice reflections there! What I try to do is not a real chrome(metal) looking ball but the quality of a chrome reflection. The balls are all colored. I will upload the reference render to show what I am trying to achieve in TG. When I saw this render first I thought I can do this easy in TG...not a big deal...hehe...no I can see it is not that easy... :)

That looks more like a high gloss paint with a possible clear coat having different properties there then anything metallic.
Title: Re: chrome surface
Post by: Hannes on December 19, 2016, 06:24:05 PM
OK, I tried to replicate the image you've posted. I hope this is what you're after.
It's quite simple. Basically it's just a reflective shader (IOR of 1.75, a very small specular roughness and a highlight intensity of 0.5) behind a default shader that has the color of the ball. The highlights in your image are square shaped, probably some sort of a window or a square shaped lightsource. I didn't care about that. I just used the sun.
I've attached the tgd (I know the scale is not correct. It's just for demonstration).
Title: Re: chrome surface
Post by: archonforest on December 20, 2016, 03:03:49 AM
This is very nice Hannes! Tku for your efforts. I came up with similar results but I have to admit that yours looks better and very closeto the original render.
The only reason I was doing this because the reference picture was a demonstration of V-ray showing advanced features. When I saw this I thought why these features are advanced? TG can do the same pretty fast.
Of course the reference picture is very nice and I do not want to invalidate V-Ray here at all.
Title: Re: chrome surface
Post by: AP on December 20, 2016, 04:36:30 AM
Indeed, those look very good.
Title: Re: chrome surface
Post by: luvsmuzik on December 20, 2016, 05:26:27 PM
I have downloaded this as well for reference. Thank you!

I thought at one time there was a reference image for this, similar to sample files in another program, or perhaps I am confusing the two programs.
Edit: I was able to render this just fine. I see you use the Bspline pixel filter here. More to learn, but even with some parameter errors, it worked. Thank you.