Another try for indoor lighting. The only additional lighting I used are three small lightsources for the candles. Otherwise only sunlight and environment light (Strength on surfaces: 3).
I had two issues here. First there are some subtle square shaped patterns on the ceiling. Even with a higher resolution of the ceiling plane it's still there but smaller. Couldn't get rid of it. So probably there's only the Photoshop solution for that I guess.
And another issue occured: Each glass behind another glass renders reflective but black. I tried everything. I was talking about this in another thread:
http://www.planetside.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,19199.msg189340.html#msg189340
Really annoying.
Most models are from Archive3D.
I created the room itself in 3Ds Max. Even only the room with windows and the door were really hard to handle in Max. And once again TG showed its power in handling huge amounts of models. Worked like a charm.
Sorry Hannes but photographs are not allowed on this thread! ;D
Thanks!!! ;D ;D ;D
Looks very nice especially for a Terragen indoor scene :)
Hannes pure guess but how is the ceiling made? One big polygon or few polygons? Trigons or not?
If so, have you tried to subdivide the ceiling much more...made it to trigons...
Maybe smoothed and not smoothed too etc. You know what i mean.
Quote from: Kadri on February 13, 2017, 05:32:34 AM
Looks very nice especially for a Terragen indoor scene :)
Hannes pure guess but how is the ceiling made? One big polygon or few polygons? Trigons or not?
If so, have you tried to subdivide the ceiling much more...made it to trigons...
Maybe smoothed and not smoothed too etc. You know what i mean.
Hi Kadri, thanks!!
In this image it was a one polygon (quad) per side box. I tried it way more subdivided (24 X 36 polygons). Still visible but smaller squares. Looked even worse in my opinion.
This is not the worst problem to me. It's quite easy to photoshop this away, but the glass issue is way more annoying.
See attached image (the dark area directly under the glass is the shadow. I mean the black area where one of the glasses covers the other one).
I'm not sure if I already reported this as a bug, but in case I didn't:
BUG!!
There are so many threads about transparency problems i gave up searching.
It is a limitation-bug of Terragen most probably but just to play around can you share that glass scene Hannes?
I suppose it's gone when you turn shadows off in the glass. But you still need a vague shadow (at least on the ground), and that's a problem indeed.
Excellent light and very realistic, except the reflections that surrounds the base of the ceiling light.
exquisite lighting and scene set up, beautiful details everywhere! - bummer about the glass(es)
...
Curious, can you make a test render with a white color background node Hannes?
Are the curtain 'real', or part of a large texture on the walls? They have a very fine semi-transparency.
Seeing you glasses I'd assume it's the ray depth problem I encountered
earlier as well. Must be a thread in the support section somwhere.
As for those squares have you tried with lots of GI samples?
Might be worth a try, but I'm just guessing here.
Edit: found it
http://www.planetside.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,19517.0.html
This was Matt responding to a query about water but it seems relevant:
Reflections are currently hardcoded to a maximum ray depth of 6 (with ray 1 being the surface visible to the camera), meaning 5 reflections, or 4 reflections after the first reflection. However, surfaces in the last reflection appear black or show only their luminosity, due to shadow rays being treated as a higher ray depth and returning fully opaque beyond the limit.
so I doubt there's a current workaround for this but am subscribed to this thread with my ever hopeful attitude in place...
Quote from: Dune on February 13, 2017, 06:48:50 AM
I suppose it's gone when you turn shadows off in the glass. But you still need a vague shadow (at least on the ground), and that's a problem indeed.
Nope, it's still there.
Quote from: Kadri on February 13, 2017, 10:39:44 AM
Curious, can you make a test render with a white color background node Hannes?
Doesn't work either.
Quote from: Dune on February 13, 2017, 10:39:59 AM
Are the curtain 'real', or part of a large texture on the walls? They have a very fine semi-transparency.
The curtains are "real". I used a regular Default shader with an image map shader as color function merged with a non-reflective glass shader. Basically it's your idea, Ulco ;).
Quote from: j meyer on February 13, 2017, 12:05:23 PM
As for those squares have you tried with lots of GI samples?
Might be worth a try, but I'm just guessing here.
Edit: found it
http://www.planetside.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,19517.0.html
Funny. Atm I'm rendering a small camera move through the room. I already have created a sequence of GI cache files, and since TG is interpolating between several ones, it seems that the square patterns are mostly gone.
And the link you gave me explains the black glasses. What a pity... :(
Hannes, not sure how it would look, but how about a cheat on the objects by deleting one side
(the glasses do look two sided) that we don't see directly (at least on the far side for example) ?
That could work. I'd have to edit the glass model.
Tres chic!
Is your mirror beveled? Please do not tell me the doilie under the ice bucket is a wire frame object, or is it? I know you could plant this on the table surface with an image, I was just curious.
Quote from: luvsmuzik on February 13, 2017, 04:24:32 PM
Tres chic!
Is your mirror beveled? Please do not tell me the doilie under the ice bucket is a wire frame object, or is it? I know you could plant this on the table surface with an image, I was just curious.
No, it's not beveled, although I agree it looks like it is.
The doilie (I had to google this word) is a flat square shaped box with an opacity map and a bump map. I created both maps from a photograph of a real doilie (found one on Google!)
I had to use soft shadows in my skylight still life because I got some really weird bounces, wonder if that would help your ceiling?
Quote from: luvsmuzik on February 13, 2017, 08:03:12 PM
I had to use soft shadows in my skylight still life because I got some really weird bounces, wonder if that would help your ceiling?
Quite something to consider! Thanks!!
I had a vague notion it could be something like that indeed, with the curtains. Very fine piece altogether.
Here's the render that at high res gave me a BSOD an hour ago. Playing with Hannes lighting method, hope y'all don't mind me hitching in here. Also I modeled everything in this scene except for the bed side lamp and I made the shade for that.
Good start, Bobby! Play with the strength on surfaces value. I used 3 in my room.
Quote from: Hannes on February 14, 2017, 02:52:13 AM
Good start, Bobby! Play with the strength on surfaces value. I used 3 in my room.
Same here and 3 very low lights, 2 on the dressing table(my Mom's) and one in the bedside light. There is bleed from the hall light though, I may turn that out as a control to your method. Is your sun default 5?
Yes, 5. How does it look like if you're increasing the environment light even more? I guess GISD, especially occlusion weight, should be on, otherwise the lighting may look a bit flat. And I think you could leave the hall light on. It's a "real" additional light, so it won't destroy the illusion.
Quote from: Hannes on February 14, 2017, 03:02:36 AM
Yes, 5. How does it look like if you're increasing the environment light even more? I guess GISD, especially occlusion weight, should be on, otherwise the lighting may look a bit flat. And I think you could leave the hall light on. It's a "real" additional light, so it won't destroy the illusion.
Yup I have GISD set at lo levels(2&2), normally I go 5 and 7 respectively and AO I set at 3 mostly for indoors, 2 for woods and general outdoors. O K, I'll give the hall light a break. heh heh. Off to soak my feet and hit the hay, been a long day here. Lotsa walking in slushy snow, ugh....zzzzzzzzzzz
Quote from: luvsmuzik on February 13, 2017, 08:03:12 PM
I had to use soft shadows in my skylight still life because I got some really weird bounces, wonder if that would help your ceiling?
Just noticed, that soft shadows are already on. But as I said, after watching the first 23 frames with GI caching, it seems that the square structures are almost gone.
I did some glass tests. See below.
The first image shows the known problem. After I read Matt's explanation I edited the glass geometry and deleted the inner wall of the upper part of the glass. I tried some glass shader experiments with this edited glass from picture 2 on.
Picture 2 has some weird refraction, so I checked "doublesided" in the glass shader from picture 3 to 5. In picture 6 I unchecked it again and reduced the IOR that was 1.3 in pictures 1 and 2 to 1.2.
A bit confusing, I know, and now I'm a bit uncertain, which one looks best.
Of course the glass in the first image looks best, except the black stuff...
so you're using an invisible copy for shadows? If so how about if you turn it's opacity to .501 like Ulco often recommends?
No, not this time. Of course this is a good way to get less opaque shadows.
Quote from: Hannes on February 14, 2017, 10:51:02 AM
No, not this time. Of course this is a good way to get less opaque shadows.
Quote from: Hannes on February 14, 2017, 03:02:36 AM
Yes, 5. How does it look like if you're increasing the environment light even more? I guess GISD, especially occlusion weight, should be on, otherwise the lighting may look a bit flat. And I think you could leave the hall light on. It's a "real" additional light, so it won't destroy the illusion.
I boosted the environmrnt light to 5 and it's marginally better. I think over all my room is too darkly coloured. Going to look into some wallpaper and maybe a light stucco ceiling to bounce the light around a bit.
EDIT
env light boost helped but in the process of changing the wall and ceiling textures I got yet another BSOD...but I'm rendering again with new textures and env light at 5...so far not bad at all.
Here it is with new wall paper and ceiling tex, Detail.3, AA 5 GISD 3 & 5...16 min. 11 sec. render time...mind blowing
Probably a good idea!
Really nice render Hannes. Very impressed that I cannot detect any graining, which usually plagues indoor scenes. Tons of objects here, indeed!
The sequence is rendered. Took a few days.
The square patterns on the ceiling are still there, but a little less noticeable. There is some pumping on the door. There is a reflective shader, maybe it's causing this?!
I decided to not touch the glasses. The mentioned black refraction looks not correct, but the alternatives I showed don't look correct as well, plus there are five different drinking glass objects in the scene, and I didn't want to edit each of them. So, I'll wait until Matt has fixed this refraction issue. ;)
I didn't want to put the movie in the Animation thread, because I think it belongs to this one here. It's just a simple camera move, but it breathes some more life into it, I think.
It's a great test, too bad about the glass issue but I guess that was the point of the mini movie...finding flaws....be nice if along with that fix we get true refraction with caustics and transparent shadows from the glass.
Quote from: bobbystahr on February 17, 2017, 03:44:44 PM
It's a great test, too bad about the glass issue but I guess that was the point of the mini movie...finding flaws....be nice if along with that fix we get true refraction with caustics and transparent shadows from the glass.
Yes, indeed!!!! Thanks, Bobby!
I like the sprinkling of light in the chandelier (as much as all the rest of it).
Quote from: Dune on February 18, 2017, 11:01:14 AM
I like the sprinkling of light in the chandelier (as much as all the rest of it).
Yeah me too now that you point that out. Was so busy studying the glasses I never saw that. Also the 'black problem' doesn't seem so apparent in those crystals on my monitor at least.
Thanks!! Yes, I can live with the glass problem at the moment knowing that Matt will care about that! ;)
I noticed something else: the reflection in the mirror starts quite nice and then gets darker and darker. No idea what could cause that. I mean, there are no objects on the other side of the room (yet), but there are windows and the wall with the same wallpaper. Mysterious...
That is one reason I asked about beveled glass for the mirror, but I am wondering if .....
If you just do a mini crop render with the camera outside the last far window....focus on mirror, or just right or left of it, do you get the reflection?
Nice animation Hannes.
Quote from: Hannes on February 18, 2017, 01:51:05 PM
...
I noticed something else: the reflection in the mirror starts quite nice and then gets darker and darker. No idea what could cause that. I mean, there are no objects on the other side of the room (yet), but there are windows and the wall with the same wallpaper. Mysterious...
Most probably the "Ray detail region".
The angle is small in the beginning. In the end then you see the region behind you.
Just a cropped region rendering with "360 degree detail" might work. If not i don't know.
love that crispy tablecloth :)