Will the final release of TG2 be available on DVD or CD? If so, will this include a manual and extras?
No need for DVD...I think there will only be digital shipping of this product when it is released.....physical shipping would be meaningless (considering the size of the setup file - ~10 MB) and not cheap
-waste of CD
-shipping cost of the CD
-Boxart
I like owning media. I don't need waste. It's professional for a software company to create a CD and useful for a professional who uses the software to own a CD of a software product.
This isn't Terragen .9 any more, in my observation.
Although the software itself if relatively small I think that on launch it might be cool if a whole bunch of supporting files were available, a gallery of images, a stack of textures including planetary maps possibly, some models (including an expanded set from Xfrog or similar) and of course a stack of tutorials and example files. All this could very well fit on a CD would add value to the product. Also if people want to go for just the dl version then that will still be available.
Of course its up to Planetside and I do wonder sometimes if all this speculation actually helps in the long run but it is interesting nonetheless.
Richard
Cyphyr's idea for support files on a CD is pretty good, but putting something like that together would turn into a major project on it's own, I'd think. Given the resources PS has I don't know if diluting their efforts like that would be a good idea.
It is, though, the best justification I can think of for PS distributing on hard media. The other down side is, of course, the cost. Printed manuals and the stuff you're describing would be pretty expensive to produce, Calico. I think you'd better plan on spending more money than the pre-purchase Deep price for something like that.
I'd think a third-party compilation CD of techniques and samples might stand more of a chance of happening. So who wants to be a hero?
:)
Honestly, a PDF manual to be downloaded onsite is fine.
But, all of the software I own of any stature has a CD. It's easy to know what I have and makes licensing much easier. I don't need much. A cumulation of work here on this site and overseen by Planetside for "no-porn" entries is fine enough for me. Fill up the CD with Volker, Moodflow, njen, Lucio, Harvey Birdman, etc. - c'est possible.
Not to mention this as the User Contributions. It would be easy to fill it up with all of the cumulation of descriptions and tutorials by Planetside here.
Anyway, a professional CD would go a long way, though it might be in Planetside's interest to understand when a company should go that direction. A good example to follow, in my opinion, would be Luxology.
Oh come on you guys! We'll be lucky just to get the final release via download by the end of the year. And now you want it on CD too? LOL ;) ;D
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention Buzzzzz on the CD, too. ;D
Quote from: calico on September 14, 2007, 03:21:29 PM
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention Buzzzzz on the CD, too. ;D
Yeah Right! ::) LOL
Give yourself some credit there, Buzzzz-meister. I doubt anyone would challenge the statement that you're one of the best artists here. :)
I agree
A CD would be nice, and samples of work from these forums would be useful. However, to successfully market physical copies of TG2, won't Planetside need a proper logo/symbol for it? (The current icon is nice, but just doesn't do it justice).
I agree with the list above, with Buzzzzz added.
DarkFire, I could have put a bunch of names on the list including yours, but wasn't making the list comprehensive. Just an example. :)
I agree that Planetside needs a unique avatar...or perhaps just an enhanced one.
If Terragen wants to become a major software product it will need both boxed and download versions, when this happens Terragen will need a logo for brand identification and distribution partners will need to be found to get the boxed version into software retail outlets around the world.
Before this can happen comes the issue of Software globalization that is to say having the interface and documentation translated into other languages other than English many people offer this service including IBM and Sun maybe Planetside could open up such a project to its user base?
With physical boxed versions of the software there are the thorny issues of shipping, distribution and stock control as well as point of sale and ensuring you have bar codes on the boxes. Other things are anti-piracy and anti-copying technologies on the physical media its self.
These issues are vastly complicated by them selfs and require people with the qualifications and experience to get them done in the right way, if one day Planetside expands maybe there will be a forum for"Positions Available" then people could apply for those positions, send in their CV's and go form there just like any othe company.
Regards to you.
Cyber-Angel
Hehe. I wouldn't think I deserve to be on a list of artists - I just love playing with Terragen.
As usual, Cyber-Angel has thought everything through and is right, but who here feels that they are good enough to work for Planetside? Does anyone have any good ideas for the Terragen 'brand identification'?
I think it should be download only for everything. The only problem is that in some countries it can be a problem to pay for. I've seen posts in a few forums from people in certain countries where they could not buy software online.
Luxology actually abandoned the idea of a paper manual. It's downloads only now. In my opinion paper manuals are a waste of resources, from the actual paper to all the transportation and postage necessary. Paper manuals are inefficient to use as well. Digital documents can be searched.
Another point mentioned here is brand identification. I don't know what direction you could go in this respect but it's definitely something a bit lacking with Planetside. Websites have nothing recognizable, different icons for Mac and Win versions etc. It could definitely be a bit cooler but we're still at alpha version of the app so the apps development is first and foremost at present.
I agree with this.
What I'd like to see is a purchased CD, which is a solid final version sitting among my other software.
Quote from: efflux on September 16, 2007, 11:38:36 AM
Luxology actually abandoned the idea of a paper manual.
Nobody has mentioned price! All of those big name software companies get big prices for their software, a big portion of that cost is producing the "paper" manual and creating the CD's. Is it worth the extra cost when you buy the final just so you can have another trophy on your shelf? As a side note many big name software companies are going to online download as an option. It is the way things are going, I think Planetside is just on the cutting edge. I don't think not producing a DVD/CD makes Planetside any less reputable. I will buy the download over the Hard copy any day.
Any way you can always burn it in a CD after you get the final, if archiving is the issue. :)
Agree. If I was selling software it would be 100% download no matter how big the userbase. Then everything goes into development of the product and no unnecessary expenses for the developer or user.
What everybody seems to be failing to realise is that, as current users of Terragen, we are all biased towards the download-only option as that is the only method of distribution at the moment. I'm sure there are lots of people out there who never buy software online, and besides, cool-looking boxes in shops would increase the awareness of Terragen. Personally, I think that boxed versions of Terragen could be quite appealing to those who have never thought of themselves being able to create beautiful landscapes using a computer. I think that Planetside have to consider whether increasing the number of people using Terragen and increasing the awareness of the product is worth the costs that will be incurred by producing CDs, boxes and manuals.
Whatever the solution, the brand identification definitely needs to be sorted out. I'd love to be able to buy (and proudly wear) a t-shirt with some sort of Terragen logo on. ;D
Everything I'm hearing is valid, based upon the arguments presented. Everything depends upon Planetside's eventual audience. Boxed software always (including Modo) comes from those in a certain group interested in selling to a specific client base. Based upon the gradation from Terragen .9x to Terragen 2, this isn't Terragen .9x anymore and I see a major shift in quality as well as potential audience.
Of course, this is really a call for Planetside marketing to make, of which I have nothing to say. So, I'll reiterate that as a consumer I'd prefer an offical package.
As a consumer, I'd prefer that Terragen t-shirt I keep on mentioning... ;D
Ooh! Ooh! Ooh! That and coffee mugs!!
;D ;D
Quote from: Harvey Birdman on September 17, 2007, 01:50:41 PM
Ooh! Ooh! Ooh! That and coffee mugs!!
;D ;D
I like that idea....
I have created a poll/topic for everybody to express their views on the merchandise here (http://forums.planetside.co.uk/index.php?topic=2360.0). Let's move this thread back to the original question now - will the final release be available on CD/DVD?
The option of a boxed copy is currently under discussion internally. If we do make one available it likely will not include a full printed manual as this does increase the cost significantly, not least in terms of shipping. The full manual will of course be available in PDF and may be offered in printed form as a separate purchase at some point if there is demand for it.
If we do go for a boxed option it would likely only be sold directly through us. The major cost of doing boxed software, aside from basic duplication and assembly (which can be done fairly easily and at reasonable cost by various service providers), is marketing and distribution. Whether we have a box or not I'm afraid you're not likely to see TG2 sitting on a shelf alongside 3DS Max or Maya any time soon. Buying this kind of software at retail in a store is increasingly rare and the effort and cost to get it onto store shelves would really be more than it's worth for us at this point.
We do intend to include some presets and example files with the final release, perhaps including objects as well. All materials should be available in the downloadable releases as well as any boxed editions we may offer.
- Oshyan
maybe a full printed manual is only available to people who bought the pre-release version...
Quote from: dhavalmistry on September 19, 2007, 03:32:08 PM
maybe a full printed manual is only available to people who bought the pre-release version...
Although we do certainly appreciate the pre-purchasers a great deal, there is already a significant discount for those who have purchased early. To tack on the cost of a printed manual to that would be a bit much for Planetside I think. ;)
- Oshyan
I understand...
I don't need a printed manual. Just to clarify.
I'm glad Planetside is thinking about this and I think (notice this is just me here...not an expert on this or anything) it would be very professional to have a CD (or DVD) with the final version on it. Maybe there could be extra clip files or examples or a PDF manual or whatever. But, I like the idea of owning the TG2 CD with my own serial number on it.
hmmmm lloking at some of my software.... GlobalMapper - downloaded, OziExplorer - downloaded, PTGui - downloaded, XFrog plants (2xDVDs) - shipped from US (had trouble finding a local distributor and when I did the cost was substantially higher after taking conversion rates and shipping into account). Given the size of the TG2 install it does seem a bit odd having a CD of it. Even on dialup it's quite painless.
If I can walk into a shop and buy something then I'd want media, but if I order/pay online I want it NOW!!! (if possible) ;D
Perhaps a PDF of a CD label and case cover so people can make their own media ;)
The other option is to have a "Product/s Section" here on the site like you'd find for other software vendors but I think that this would be over the Main Planetside site rather than here on the forums. This section would give information about pricing structure, box shots, feature comparison chart for the differant versions of TG2 which would either be on the site its self or as a download in PDF format etc.
I think a manual in PDF format may be the way forward has this would have easier to keep updated as Terragen its self is updated and in cures non of the costs of printing and so forth, This PDF must have some that says "Changes Since the Last Version" or words to that effect any way so that people know what has happened or you could do what an application called CCleaner dose and provide the change log so that people can see what has changed without having to come to the forums to read it. This would be of benefit to IT Managers, Studio Software Buyers and Training Facilities so they know what to expect when setting up pre-deployment testing before rolling it out across their systems.
Places like Studios and VFX Houses are going to want to deploy their software solutions via servers as are some home users with a small server farm at home so some time in the future "TG2 Server" would be a great addition to the Terragen product line.
Regards to you
Cyber-Angel
I prefer all manuals in PDF format, as they can be searched so much more easily. :D
I also like the idea of printable CD/DVD, case and box cover PDFs...
I'm getting really good at digging up old threads ::)
Quote from: Oshyan on September 19, 2007, 03:04:23 PM
The option of a boxed copy is currently under discussion internally.
Just wondering if this is still a discussion? :P
I'm still happy to discuss this issue, but apparently nobody else is. I don't think we resolved the discussion - all of this stuff is up to Planetside, not us.
I know it's up to Planetside. I just have a little hope that they have made a decision on this :P
Quote from: Dark Fire on October 29, 2007, 07:34:08 PM
I'm still happy to discuss this issue, but apparently nobody else is. I don't think we resolved the discussion - all of this stuff is up to Planetside, not us.
then there is nothing to resolve....
There is - we can resolve what we, the forum users, want.
Expressing what we want is one thing and I'm certain Planetside is listening.
Quote from: Dark Fire on October 30, 2007, 03:55:37 PM
There is - we can resolve what we, the forum users, want.
but in the end it all depends on Planetside
a good example would be Transformers movie not being released on blu-ray....although the director wants it to be released on blu-ray but the company (Paramount) decided to support HD-DVD due to its cheaper production cost....and all the blu-ray fans are furious....even the director was pissed at Paramount.....
sorry for going off topic...:)
For now I think we'll be going with download-only. We may work on doing a boxed version in 2008 if there is demand for it, but frankly it's a large expense and overhead to setup everything for it and if there is little interest it's not worthwhile. In the end the product itself is the same. ;D
- Oshyan
While it is true that for a small company like Planetside there is cost (As there is for any software vendor) I think there must be companies out there that could help and bring it in at a good price even if the packaging design was done either in house at Planetside or opened up to the community (With specifications for whats needed duly provided) and then sent off to be manufactured.
Also there is the sense of security that having Physical Media provides from a crash recovery stand point, that is to say that should some thing ever happen to the system where TG2 is installed and you either have to use the restore disk or in the most extrema case reformat the drive and have to start again by reinstalling the O/S and then the software (Stress inducing process for many people) it is often easier to reload the software form physical media rather than have to download it again.
There are people who of course find that the inverse is true and find that downloading is easier for them, its about providing people with options; there is a down side with physical media form the IT managers stand point and that is upgrades and maintenance I have throat about a model that Planetside could use.
Proposed Model:
In this model Planetside would offer both options for online download (As now) and physical boxed media (That can by sold through retail stores to maximize revenue inflow) with options to buy multiple seats (Studios, Production Companies, FX-Houses, Educational Establishments, Non-Profit Organizations etc) have a reseller program so that TG2 can be sold via other online outlets such as Amazon.
Once people have brought their version (All major Versions TG2, TG3 etc) on physical media and have activated their software all minor releases 2.1 etc will be available free via the Internet using the built in update feature then when the next major milestone release is available people would buy that as they would any other software of course people with legacy Terragen Pipelines should be helped to transition over any custom plug-ins etc they may have so they are not stranded in the upgrade path.
Regards to you.
Cyber-Angel
Hi,
If you need the added security of a physical copy, which isn't a bad idea, then it's pretty straightforward to burn something to a CD these days. That's what I do with downloaded software I've purchased.
Regards,
Jo