Hi I'm new here so hello everybody and Happy New Year. I would like to know if subsurface scattering will be integrating in the next (the real one) version of Terragen 2, I saw cool image of two blocks of ice at Planetside site sometime ago.
As far as I know it will be implemented in a future version.
The technology preview doesn't support transparency and/or sss.
Subsurface scattering is planned for the final release of Terragen 2 in 2007.
- Oshyan
Any good news on this feature :)
- Terje
Considering it has been going back to 2004.
http://www.planetside.co.uk/gallery/f/tg2/translucency_test_01.jpg.html
Hi,
I believe the story with subsurface scattering is that it worked to a point but it was both very slow and sensitive to settings changes. Based on this it was decided it wasn't going to be something which could be pursued successfully. There aren't any plans to add it in the near future, but we do have it in mind if there's an opportunity to revisit it.
Regards,
Jo
Just about every other application has SSS and it is essential to many natural mediums such as leafs, crystals, water, clouds and mud. Some applications use other non-standards of SSS which tends to render faster as well. Do not know which ones in particular but this has been around for a few years so it is nothing new. Vue had had this since version 6. Carrara has had this since version 5 or 6. I don't get it.
Pretty much all of those applications render in a different way than TG2 does. This is something that many people don't realize, but in order to render highly detailed terrain as fast as it does, TG2 works in unique ways. Other applications can be faster at some things, especially things like reflections, object rendering, transparency, etc. because their rendering methods excel at this (raytracing being the most common approach which encompasses all those effects). TG2 does now use raytracing for certain scene elements where it is more effective (e.g. imported 3D objects), but raytracing is not the primary rendering method. Try doing the same level of detail that TG2 accompishes in another app, from space to centimeter ground level. As far as I've heard and seen there really is no other program that can match TG2 in that way, including Vue which seems to slow down quite a lot using procedurals.
In any case partly because of these differences we can't necessarily just take an established rendering technique off the shelf and put it in TG2 and expect it to work correctly (and at a reasonable speed).
- Oshyan
So this is a render issue then due to Terragen's unique internal system. That is interesting to know.
I had a heck of a time using displacements in Vue 7 but i am not sure if that was greatly improved or not in 8 as it is too heavy on my system to really get into the infinite displacement features. Besides, there is something about terragen's procedurals that really speaks of fine details.
That's probably a gross simplification on my part, but yes as I understand it this is an issue that affects many things, such as "true transparency" (e.g. not just binary, black/white alpha), and refraction quality.
- Oshyan
Quote from: jo on January 16, 2010, 12:10:04 AM
..........Based on this it was decided it wasn't going to be something which could be pursued successfully. There aren't any plans to add it in the near future, but we do have it in mind if there's an opportunity to revisit it.
Regards,
Jo
In which case in might be a good idea to remove this:
http://www.planetside.co.uk/gallery/f/tg2/translucency_test_01.jpg.html
Quote from: Kevin F on January 16, 2010, 06:39:38 AM
In which case in might be a good idea to remove this:
http://www.planetside.co.uk/gallery/f/tg2/translucency_test_01.jpg.html
isn't that some fake SSS ? i don't remember who did some, some times ago but i think i still have the tgd in my library...
if it is, no need to take that back ^^
Subsurface scattering, when done correctly is a calculation intensive program routine. It would probably make I7 3gHz systems as slow at rendering as my Pentium 4 is. It may work with the 48 core CPU that Intel is building, but that is several years away for consumer PC's.
Nevertheless it's a pity that there are no plans to implement SSS in the near future. TG is a landscape generating program and for creating natural things like Ice and snow SSS would be absolutely essential.
This thread http://forums.planetside.co.uk/index.php?topic=5786.0 seems to suggest it was Matt, and gives a couple of techniques for faking.
I think that over large areas it would still take a lot of render time. But it would look great for ice.
so that was Ryan again ^^
Quote from: domdib on January 16, 2010, 11:08:20 AM
This thread http://forums.planetside.co.uk/index.php?topic=5786.0 seems to suggest it was Matt, and gives a couple of techniques for faking.
Well..... a fake SSS shader that still looked awesome would be good enough for me, but the way it is done in that thread isn't really working to well.
- Terje
well... maybe stability, speed, different kind of lights (like spots) or multithreaded preview might be better things to work on for PS...
Do you really think SSS will improve renders of a lot of people ? i am not sure...
I don't see a lot of render post in here that need SSS... maybe I am wrong, but honestly... i don't think it is a priority. :)
Hmm,
I'm not entirely sure if this would even be possible, but would planetside (perhaps as an "unoffical" alternitive) enable the "unfinished" shader, in the same way that the planet surface shader is technically enabled?
Have it removed from all of the menu's ect (so it has basicly been taken out of the program) but still accessible through TGC's, which would allow people, who understand the complications that come with the shader, to at least play around with it?
Thanks
Zionner
It seems that Ryan had a good understanding of how it is possible to achieve something like sss on TG2 with this previous version.
Hey, Ryan, did you do something more on that stuff ?
Hi Hannes,
Quote from: Hannes on January 16, 2010, 11:02:19 AM
Nevertheless it's a pity that there are no plans to implement SSS in the near future. TG is a landscape generating program and for creating natural things like Ice and snow SSS would be absolutely essential.
Hardly essential. Even if we had it working about as fast as could be expected if would probably still be too slow to use for large objects or items taking up a lot of space in the scene, and it would probably be much quicker and look almost as good if were faked convincingly. Faking it for ice is perhaps a little tricky at the moment, but I think it would be fairly easy to fake for snow, if you mean that blue kind of look if you take a section through deep snow.
I think you're greatly overestimating the importance of the effect in general.
Regards,
Jo
I think the older thread faked the ice look fairly well. I had long forgotten about that thread. Still, it does need some touch ups before it gets buried again. ;D
To be honest the one image in the gallery showing this is the best possible result that could be achieved with the test shader, under ideal circumstances. I've played with it myself and the results people have achieved with "fakes" for ice, etc. are about as good as what it can do, and almost certainly render faster besides.
Zionner, an interesting but not original idea (i.e. we have done this before)... ;)
I remember back in the TG 0.9 (not Terragen Classic) days there was a clever fellow who created a system to read TGW (TerraGen World) files and directly adjust their parameters, getting around any limitations in the UI. It turned out there were fairly few things that actually worked that weren't available otherwise, but there were one or two hidden gems. So far I haven't seen anyone really digging around in TG2 yet, but that could be interesting...
- Oshyan
I'm on it ;D
Franck,
I really didn't take the idea any further than what was shown in that previous thread. It was a neat effect, but it would be pretty tricky to build it into much other than a sphere. I suppose technically it would be possible to do the same thing with two overlapping heightfields which could produce some interesting results.
thank you for you answer Ryan :)
Quote from: Oshyan on January 03, 2007, 11:34:18 PM
Subsurface scattering is planned for the final release of Terragen 2 in 2007.
- Oshyan
any news about that ?
Good find, Franck. News would be nice.
Quote from: Seth on June 22, 2011, 06:01:05 AM
Quote from: Oshyan on January 03, 2007, 11:34:18 PM
Subsurface scattering is planned for the final release of Terragen 2 in 2007.
- Oshyan
any news about that ?
hehe ;D
I hate doing that... it is like whining...
but I was looking for some stuff on fake SSS and found this all thread.
The "2007" made me laugh, so... ^^
anyway... with new version the previous fake SSS don't work anymore.
Maybe a real SSS will be valuable for some renders I guess.
Quote from: Seth on June 22, 2011, 06:01:05 AM
Quote from: Oshyan on January 03, 2007, 11:34:18 PM
Subsurface scattering is planned for the final release of Terragen 2 in 2007.
- Oshyan
any news about that ?
lol ;D
Salut Seth ;)