My main rendering rig is performing sluggishly. It renders as fast as expected but the interface is slow to respond; this is particularly noticeable in Terragen but still apparent in other programs including the operating system.
I am wondering if the cause could be either the RAM or the graphics card.
Spec:
AMD Ryzen 3900X @ 4GHz
64GB Dual Channel DDR 4 @ 1066.4MHz
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1660
All the drives are SSD's and the operating system sits on an M2.
The sluggishness is so bad that I hardly use the system for anything other than rendering, still creating on my old system and only moving files over to render.
The Mobo won't take RAM that is quad channel but I could invest in faster clock speed or if the card is a bottleneck get a better one.
Suggestions greatly received. Ta :)
Hard to say anything but some things come to my mind at first that you know most probably already Richard.
If you don't overclock:
Ram speed looks kinda slow for such a computer setup.
Could be a motherboard problem-settings. Look at the fans and monitor your cpu, mainboard etc. temperature.
Maybe you could just try to set a slower speed limit for the CPU (sounds strange but happened to me).
Then there are the standard things like Windows problems (re installing?...hate this).
Assuming that you have no hardware problems (Memtest etc).
Trying another graphics card...maybe if you have an onboard card etc.
But Terragen is sluggish on my system too sometimes even when not rendering. With RTP on especially.
Especially while rendering it is harder then Lightwave for example to my system in general.
Quote from: cyphyr on May 24, 2020, 07:59:22 AMMy main rendering rig is performing sluggishly. It renders as fast as expected but the interface is slow to respond; this is particularly noticeable in Terragen but still apparent in other programs including the operating system.
I am wondering if the cause could be either the RAM or the graphics card.
Spec:
AMD Ryzen 3900X @ 4GHz
64GB Dual Channel DDR 4 @ 1066.4MHz
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1660
All the drives are SSD's and the operating system sits on an M2.
The sluggishness is so bad that I hardly use the system for anything other than rendering, still creating on my old system and only moving files over to render.
The Mobo won't take RAM that is quad channel but I could invest in faster clock speed or if the card is a bottleneck get a better one.
Suggestions greatly received. Ta :)
try to download this https://www.userbenchmark.com/resources/download/UserBenchMark.exe
(https://www.userbenchmark.com/resources/download/UserBenchMark.exe) let it run then it will open a web page with the results and its going to highlight what supposely is your bottleneck. Your ram maybe runs at a lower clock.
if you have overclocked it maybe soething is wrong, its kinda hard to pinpoint whats wrong, last time i had this issue i format my pc and everything went back to normal.
Double check drivers maybe?
Recently, I have also started to experience problems. Got two BSoDs. Once, the computer even reset without any error screen. Later, I couldn't even open image files with the default Win viewer.
I have read somewhere, that outdated drivers can cause a whole heap of trouble if not kept in check and promptly uninstalled Logitech peripheral which I don't use anymore. Interestingly enough, the problems have not repeated so far.
Which brings me to the following point - try to check and see if you have any devices or drivers that are outdated or unused. It's amazing how many things can go awry due to such a cause... :o
Thanks guys ...
Well according to that little utility everything is running "Outstanding" except the processor that is "Performing way below expectations (16th percentile)".
Well at least I won't have to shell out on a new card or RAM.
Time for a re-build ... meh :\
Just curious but are you liquid cooling your CPU, or Air/Fan cooled?
If your using a closed loop all-in-one style cooler make sure the pump hasn't stopped.
If the CPU starts overheating it will automatically throttle down, and you will lose a lot of performance.
You could check this by using Hardware Monitor (https://www.cpuid.com/softwares/hwmonitor.html) to monitor temps, and then just open Windows Task Manager (Performance Tab) to monitor the CPU speed (Ctrl-Shift ESC).
Also while in Task Manager look at what apps are running and what is hitting your CPU hard. Also look for anything suspicious (malware/virus).
-Derek
It is water-cooled and I will make a check as you advise but I doubt this is the issue as it's less than a year old. Definitely worth looking in to.
So far I have found that my RAM was running at 1066MHz when it should have been running at 1600MHz (now fixed).
And I have reset the OC to default so the multiplier is 38 rather than 40.
Seems a little more stable and responsive.
The system is hardly ever on line but nonetheless has up-to-date Bitdefender running. I shall run Malwarebytes on it next.
In my old system (which is unfortunately still my main system) I can easily pick up multiple large onscreen populations and move the camera about with ease.
On my new system, I click and have to wait until it becomes responsive and then it only moves jerkily. That is why I wondered if the graphics card is not up to spec.
While there, you may also consider if the cooling is up to the task and dust isn't physically clogging your system (unless you already did, I jumped back to your topic just now). I know this has been the cause for the headache for me as well. Nothing was running smoothly until I finally fixed the cooling system and got rid of throttling.
If the computer is one-year old as you say, it might be a good time to renew cooling and dust it off. This is usually the amount of time after which I go to the "pit-stop" and get these things done.
Hi Richard,
with my 2-Xeon-CPU-Box I experience the same behaviour.
Almost each and every scene, especially the population heavier ones are sluggish in the viewport.
This all started with the introduction of the RTP.
When I try to move the viewport there is a more or less longer pause (like "thinking thinking thinking a that`s what he wants!) before the viewport reacts. I usually have only bounding box display on to be able to do anything in time. With imported objects and populations that is.
Rendering times - I could not be happier (only if I was a rich man...dabadabidibidu)
Then I do not really take those benchmarks too seriously. I ran it about 10 times now, because the first time it broke down, couldn`t finish, after that quite a variety of results each time. Ranging from very WOW to way below expectations. So that either tells me my system is completely f#*#d up or the benchmark is soso...
I do not think it`s the RAM or Graphics Card on your system. TG does not utilize the most modern features of GPUs, I think I remember Matt or Oshyan say the viewport uses good old OpenGL mostly or even exclusively. Every G-card should be able to handle that nowadays.
Why would your older system with a assumably older Gcard work more smoothly? You even have only 1/2 the amount of RAM in your old box.
The main difference between your old and your new system seems to be the CPU and the amount of cores.
You did not say which OS you are running, though.
My main advice would be to try different (even older) drivers for the Graphics Card and double check for all your drivers and utilities of the mainboard. They truly make a huge difference. Chipset drivers especially.
And regarding dust...well I think a system that is watercooled has other issues than dust.
You should monitor the temperature of your cpu over a longer time period to see if the watercooling works as expected - on the other hand if the box renders as fast as expected and does not show any signs of "getting too hot too easily" I would think that this is not the cause to sluggishness.
So, what does this mean - nothing at all. Just a guess as good as anyone elses, really.
Good luck! CHeers, Klaus
Quote from: KlausK on May 26, 2020, 09:39:36 AMHi Richard,
with my 2-Xeon-CPU-Box I experience the same behaviour.
Almost each and every scene, especially the population heavier ones are sluggish in the viewport.
This all started with the introduction of the RTP.
When I try to move the viewport there is a more or less longer pause (like "thinking thinking thinking a that`s what he wants!) before the viewport reacts. I usually have only bounding box display on to be able to do anything in time. With imported objects and populations that is.
Rendering times - I could not be happier (only if I was a rich man...dabadabidibidu)
These are quite exactly my observations with my 24-core Threadripper.
Rendertimes are awesome, but TG itself barely runs faster.
3D preview runs a bit faster, but shader previews barely, if not even slower.
The RTP, especially for cloudwork, is really fast.
When scenes are node-heavy TG does not manage to utilize the resources available. Copy/pasting nodes is slow, Rewiring nodes is slow/slugghish. Nothing is fast and snappy anymore.
Also, cancelling renders with >32 threads takes very very long often.
All in all I'm super happy with my render monster, but it hasn't given me the workflow (speed) benefits I hoped for yet.
Quote from: Tangled-Universe on May 26, 2020, 09:57:36 AMWhen scenes are node-heavy TG does not manage to utilize the resources available. Copy/pasting nodes is slow, Rewiring nodes is slow/slugghish.
Same here.
I had a scene where copy and paste would take up to 4 minutes. This was unbearable. Large number of objects is the worst for some reason.
I managed to find some workarounds, mainly hiding nodes inside other nodes but navigating from one to the others still needs a few seconds. That's manageable though.
The trouble is that I don't get these issues with my older system and I can't understand why.
It's almost as if the Ryzen has sacrificed strength for speed.
Glad it's not just me though.
Say I want to click and drag a node connection. I will click on the small triangle below the node and wiggle the mouse waiting for the connection to "free up".
I do notice though that if I maximize the node window (so there is no 3D preview) everything becomes a lot more responsive so that does lead me to think it is something to do with the graphics card but that is not a great way to work.
Is the 3D view on or paused while clicking and dragging a node connection?
When it is not paused it seems it is constantly trying to rerender renew the viewport which causes high cpu utilization and hickups in mouse movement on my box.
Can`t you put the graphics card from your old system in the render machine to test?
I used different GPUs in the Xeon box and there was no noticable difference in viewport response behaviour.
Now I use a Nvidia GTX 1070i with 8GB of RAM. Well, if that is not enough, what is.
I bet, even newer cards would not take this pain away.
CHeers, Klaus
If i open another instance of Terragen (to copy and paste anything from one scene to another for example) it goes mostly much worse when RTP is enabled.
I get sometimes even blanc screen for a few seconds. As if the system is freezing.
It hints in that direction but i don't know if this related to the graphics card in some way or not ( RTP looks most of the culprit).
I wanted to disable some cores with Task manager yesterday for example but i could not even do that.
The mouse pointer and everything was freezing so bad i could only close Terragen...barely.
After using two instances of Terragen getting the render view to the front is hard too.
I can only get to view the render window by minimizing the main GUI.
Quote from: Kadri on May 26, 2020, 01:41:24 PM...
After using two instances of Terragen getting the render view to the front is hard too.
I can only get to view the render window by minimizing the main GUI.
Yes I have noticed something similar too, although always.
A render finishes and drops behind the Terragen window and refuses to come to the front. Only by minimising Terragen will the render output be the forefront window.
Quote from: cyphyr on May 26, 2020, 01:54:11 PMQuote from: Kadri on May 26, 2020, 01:41:24 PM...
After using two instances of Terragen getting the render view to the front is hard too.
I can only get to view the render window by minimizing the main GUI.
Yes I have noticed something similar too, although always.
A render finishes and drops behind the Terragen window and refuses to come to the front. Only by minimising Terragen will the render output be the forefront window.
Yes exactly.
On AMD systems you have to manually set the RAM clock speed, FYI. It won't go to stock clock speeds automatically. I had to manually set my 32gb DIMMs to 3200 in BIOS. But I see yout got that!
Is your RAM really 1600mhz? That's Really slow, honestly. That won't see great performance in workstation duties, really. Maybe you can get away overclocking it a bit. Are these DIMMS single channel, is that why they are so slow? If so, that will also heavily impact performance. My system originally came with on stick of 1200mhz single-channel 8GB. It was dog slow. Games stuttered, renders took at least 10-20% longer.
The Ram is Dual Channel so 1600 x 2 = 3200 or at least that is my understanding of how it works.
CPUz picks it up as 1596.8MHz so close enough.
Unfortunately the the AM4 socket (Ryzen) doesn't support quad-channel memory.
Ah that makes sense. It thought what you had on the DIMM itself or bios was 1600 and was definitely confused.
just out of curiosity, everyone who has this issue is using an AMD?
i always been on Intel family, i was thinking to get a new workstation with a 3950x ryzen 9, but im reading here and there some issues and this gets me concerned.
I'm running a 3900x with 64gb RAM and gtx1070 and not experiencing any noticeable issues. Very pleased with the investment. Standard view port is slow but nothing that bothers me greatly.
Quote from: RogueNZ (https://planetside.co.uk/forums/index.php?msg=277748) 27/05/2020, 09:29:26
Quote from: RogueNZ on May 27, 2020, 04:29:26 AMI'm running a 3900x with 64gb RAM and gtx1070 and not experiencing any noticeable issues. Very pleased with the investment. Standard view port is slow but nothing that bothers me greatly.
That is almost the same setup as I have.
Do you mind if I ask what memory you are using and what Motherboard?
Yes AMD here too (3960X).
Quote from: Nala1977 on May 27, 2020, 04:16:05 AMjust out of curiosity, everyone who has this issue is using an AMD?
i always been on Intel family, i was thinking to get a new workstation with a 3950x ryzen 9, but im reading here and there some issues and this gets me concerned.
Yes AMD here too (3960X).
AMD here too. I am not sure if this is a general issue or if I am just pushing Terragen too hard sometimes...
Intel Dual Xeon E5-2640v3 8 Cores each
CHeers, Klaus
I have Ryzen 5 2600 and 32gb Vengeance 3200 on a b450 with no issues. Only a minute off from 2600x on benchmark results so that seems within reason, and 2600x and 2600 make decent time.
Only issue I have is slow PT when render is about halfway done. But seen this same thing posted about Intel. And my dual Xeons on my server has same issue. I get like 45-65% usage on my CPUs from about 40% of the render on
Yes AMD too here; Ryzen 9 3650X.
I doubt that this is only AMD related. Maybe more about having many cores?
I had similar problems too with my Intel setup.
Problems become more pronounced after RTP especially (looked so to me at least).
But anything is possible of course.
And no i would still buy this CPU. It is so fast with renders :)
Interesting information, as I will likely invest in another machine this year, especially for TG renders.
Quote from: cyphyr on May 27, 2020, 05:04:41 AMQuote from: RogueNZ (https://planetside.co.uk/forums/index.php?msg=277748) 27/05/2020, 09:29:26
Quote from: RogueNZ on May 27, 2020, 04:29:26 AMI'm running a 3900x with 64gb RAM and gtx1070 and not experiencing any noticeable issues. Very pleased with the investment. Standard view port is slow but nothing that bothers me greatly.
That is almost the same setup as I have.
Do you mind if I ask what memory you are using and what Motherboard?
Corsair Vengeance 64gb (4 x 16gb), I think it is this one: https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categories/Products/Memory/VENGEANCE-LPX/p/CMK64GX4M4B3200C16. I never got the standard 3200 profile to work, kept crashing, so it's currently set at 1543Mhz.
Mobo is Gigabyte X570 Aorus Elite Wifi
Hmm well the memory is the same (exactly!)
My MoBo is not as good as yours, I think I jumped too soon as the boards were only just being released and I was on a budget (Asus PRIME X570-P).
I do remember people complaining that the Ryzens were not running at full advertised spec when they were first release and a bios update was released that was supposed to address this. I never found out anything further though so there may be something to look into there.
I think it's coincidence that some of the systems reported are AMD.
Quote from: KlausK on May 26, 2020, 01:15:46 PMIs the 3D view on or paused while clicking and dragging a node connection?
When it is not paused it seems it is constantly trying to rerender renew the viewport which causes high cpu utilization and hickups in mouse movement on my box.
Can`t you put the graphics card from your old system in the render machine to test?
I used different GPUs in the Xeon box and there was no noticable difference in viewport response behaviour.
Now I use a Nvidia GTX 1070i with 8GB of RAM. Well, if that is not enough, what is.
I bet, even newer cards would not take this pain away.
CHeers, Klaus
Same here: I got an iMac Pro running:
3.2GHz 8-core Intel Xeon W64 GB 2666 MHz DDR4Radeon Pro Vega 64 16GBWhen Terragen (4.4.44) runs for a few hours, I have here a general slowdown of all commands that are entered. Single clicks sometimes take seconds until they are executed. In this state a single change (e.g. in a node or similar) can cause Terragen to crash without an error message. If additionally a sample render is running in the background, it gets even worse. I have to wait and have a coffee until I can continue working. But Terragen hardly needs any resources of my Mac, at most 10-12 GB Ram are needed, but the CPU runs hot with all cores above 90° Celsius. The fans are of course in continuous operation.
But the most tedious thing is, as KlausK already mentioned, that the 3D Preview tries to update the preview after every smallest change. This slows down the workflow immensely. I would be fine if you could switch off the 3D Preview manually until you really need it.
Let me get this straight: Of course I know that you can pause/stop the 3D preview, but you have to think about that in the "heat of the moment" and that doesn't work reliably either. As soon as you change the tab in the bar (e.g. from "Atmosphere" to "shaders") the game with the preview starts again from the beginning, despite the fact that I actually stopped preview...
Quote from: cyphyr on May 28, 2020, 03:45:47 AMI do remember people complaining that the Ryzens were not running at full advertised spec when they were first release and a bios update was released that was supposed to address this. I never found out anything further though so there may be something to look into there.
I don't remember a bios update for this, most boards are on original AM4 bios, like mine.
I do know most people complaining about this were coming from Intel and didn't understand AMD TDP situation and how to cool properly to reach max clock speeds.
For example, because I have stock cooler, I can get 3.78 - 3.8ghz boost, it will not sustain 3.9ghz boost as advertised because of thermal load.