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General => Image Sharing => Topic started by: René on September 21, 2020, 03:31:45 AM

Title: Cirrus tests.
Post by: René on September 21, 2020, 03:31:45 AM
Some experiments that should lead to a certain type of cirrus clouds.
Usually I pay less attention to clouds because of the longer rendering times, but in this case I can't avoid it because they will be the focal point.
This is what I have so far and I still have some problems to solve. And yes, the rendering times are soaring.
Title: Re: Cirrus tests.
Post by: Matt on September 21, 2020, 04:28:11 AM
Alpine Fractal? I tried that once. Reducing the number of octaves helps a great deal with the render times. This is more important with the Alpine Fractal than with other fractals. Whatever your method is I would love to hear more about it.
Title: Re: Cirrus tests.
Post by: René on September 21, 2020, 05:40:06 AM
Yes it is the Alpine shader, two even: one "soft" with little detail and one sharp with lots of detail. The sharp Alpine is through the Merge shader combined with a shifted version of itself to obtain extra sharp plumes. The sharp and soft Alpine are then combined again by means of a mask.

I hope this makes sense. :P
Title: Re: Cirrus tests.
Post by: Kadri on September 21, 2020, 06:49:28 AM
Looks interesting René.
Title: Re: Cirrus tests.
Post by: Dune on September 21, 2020, 07:03:26 AM
Indeed. Maybe a faster way is possible...
Title: Re: Cirrus tests.
Post by: cyphyr on September 21, 2020, 10:25:20 AM
OOh, that looks like a cool technique.
Title: Re: Cirrus tests.
Post by: René on September 23, 2020, 04:24:18 AM
A screen capture of a 3D version of these Alpine clouds. As can be seen on the cropped image with a longer RTP rendering time, higher quality settings are required to avoid layering.

Wouldn't it be possible to write a cloud density fractal that produces this result? How hard can it be? ;)
Title: Re: Cirrus tests.
Post by: Matt on September 23, 2020, 12:43:34 PM
Quote from: René on September 23, 2020, 04:24:18 AMWouldn't it be possible to write a cloud density fractal that produces this result? How hard can it be? ;)

If it uses the same algorithm as the Alpine Fractal then it will be the same speed.

Have you tried reducing the number of octaves as low as you can before it loses detail? The Alpine Fractal render times are non-linear with respect to the number of octaves, unlike the Power Fractal / Cloud Fractal, so it's critical to keep the number as low as you can.

It's probably best to bake these textures into a texture map if you're using them for clouds. The Alpine Fractal is 2D anyway.
Title: Re: Cirrus tests.
Post by: WAS on September 23, 2020, 01:22:47 PM
I could try using Voronoi Ridges subtracted by Voronoi Billows.

You could use a surface layer and vector disp to give windswept look, and you can also warp by the same voronoi noise on X/Z to create a more stretched look.

Here is a quick example. RTP is crippling my system for some reason though. Could hardly move the mouse to pause it just to return to the browser. :O

I also feel with how faint the cirrus are, that V3 may be overkill, to get the edges looking right you need a pretty low density/sharpness which kills v3 lighting imo.
Title: Re: Cirrus tests.
Post by: Hannes on September 26, 2020, 10:44:13 AM
Interesting thread, guys! Cool clouds.
Title: Re: Cirrus tests.
Post by: René on September 28, 2020, 06:59:20 AM
Quote from: WAS on September 23, 2020, 01:22:47 PMI could try using Voronoi Ridges subtracted by Voronoi Billows.

You could use a surface layer and vector disp to give windswept look, and you can also warp by the same voronoi noise on X/Z to create a more stretched look.

Here is a quick example. RTP is crippling my system for some reason though. Could hardly move the mouse to pause it just to return to the browser. :O

I also feel with how faint the cirrus are, that V3 may be overkill, to get the edges looking right you need a pretty low density/sharpness which kills v3 lighting imo.
Your Cirrus looks good. I've experimented with Voronoi billows and ridges, but my version, unlike yours, looked too obvious as a fractal. I think the solution might be a combination of Alpine and Perlin noise.
Title: Re: Cirrus tests.
Post by: René on September 28, 2020, 07:01:51 AM
Alpine and Perlin noise.
Title: Re: Cirrus tests.
Post by: Dune on September 28, 2020, 07:06:51 AM
These look good! I've also experimented with taking a stretched noise through a surface shader, breaking (the greys) up by a 90º rotated, warped and reduced version of itself, then warping the whole lot. But never ended these experiments...
Title: Re: Cirrus tests.
Post by: René on September 28, 2020, 07:44:03 AM
What I would really like to make is clouds like these. But that might be too ambitious. ;D
Title: Re: Cirrus tests.
Post by: René on September 28, 2020, 07:57:11 AM
QuoteIf it uses the same algorithm as the Alpine Fractal then it will be the same speed.

That makes sense.

QuoteThe Alpine Fractal is 2D anyway.
If the Alpine shader is 2d, does that mean that it is basically useless for 3D clouds? That would be a pity, because the Alpine shader does exactly what you see on the edges of some clouds.
Title: Re: Cirrus tests.
Post by: Dune on September 28, 2020, 08:09:28 AM
Maybe if you rotate it and add?
Title: Re: Cirrus tests.
Post by: Hetzen on September 28, 2020, 08:59:37 AM
Quote from: René on September 28, 2020, 07:57:11 AM
Quote from: undefinedThe Alpine Fractal is 2D anyway.
If the Alpine shader is 2d, does that mean that it is basically useless for 3D clouds? That would be a pity, because the Alpine shader does exactly what you see on the edges of some clouds.
It will project the same shape through it's altitude, so you could warp it with a 3d PF.

Some good experiments you've got going.
Title: Re: Cirrus tests.
Post by: WAS on September 28, 2020, 01:15:36 PM
I think apline shapes are a good look too. I'm playing around with using the alpine shader as a vector warper for voronoi ridges noise and it seems it might be going somewhere.
Title: Re: Cirrus tests.
Post by: WAS on September 28, 2020, 01:57:44 PM
Here is a quick test using the alpine as a warper, and depth modulator (inverted) to basic voronoi noise (0.5 contrast). It looks good to me, much better than what I was doing before which I kept wonder what "looked the best". The sinking of the denser ice crystals, and wisps of drafts pulling them out and up look realistic to my eyes.
Title: Re: Cirrus tests.
Post by: René on November 26, 2020, 12:27:43 PM
I made a few more with different settings for the Alpine shader: scale step 6, stretch factor 7, and a lot of merging and warping.
Title: Re: Cirrus tests.
Post by: WAS on November 26, 2020, 02:01:10 PM
I think these ones look really good! Great job Rene!
Title: Re: Cirrus tests.
Post by: René on November 26, 2020, 02:34:28 PM
Thank you. :)
Title: Re: Cirrus tests.
Post by: Nala1977 on November 26, 2020, 02:47:46 PM
these are fantastic, great job!
Title: Re: Cirrus tests.
Post by: Dune on November 27, 2020, 01:58:23 AM
Fine feathered cirrus, I like them! Good work.
Title: Re: Cirrus tests.
Post by: DocCharly65 on November 27, 2020, 05:01:15 AM
Look really good!
Title: Re: Cirrus tests.
Post by: bobbystahr on November 28, 2020, 05:10:46 PM
Quote from: René on November 26, 2020, 12:27:43 PMI made a few more with different settings for the Alpine shader: scale step 6, stretch factor 7, and a lot of merging and warping.
Very cool man, never thought of that...well done !
Title: Re: Cirrus tests.
Post by: vinyvince on December 04, 2020, 05:40:11 AM
Quote from: René on November 26, 2020, 12:27:43 PMI made a few more with different settings for the Alpine shader: scale step 6, stretch factor 7, and a lot of merging and warping.

They looks realyl great Rene, bravo! Will you mind sharing one example maybe please?
Title: Re: Cirrus tests.
Post by: René on December 12, 2020, 02:46:08 AM
Here you go. The basic principle is quite straight forward. Subsequently I combined the alpine fractal with other fractals through masking and using the merge shader. With the latter a lot is possible by the way. And warping of course.
Title: Re: Cirrus tests.
Post by: Dune on December 12, 2020, 03:23:38 AM
Thanks for sharing, René!
Title: Re: Cirrus tests.
Post by: mhaze on December 12, 2020, 05:10:59 AM
Thanks Rene. Much appreciated
Title: Re: Cirrus tests.
Post by: Hannes on December 12, 2020, 12:42:45 PM
Thanks a lot, René!!
Title: Re: Cirrus tests.
Post by: Jo Kariboo on December 19, 2020, 03:27:53 PM
Very nice experimentation !
Title: Re: Cirrus tests.
Post by: Valri on January 04, 2021, 12:48:41 AM
Holy cow! this is some serious cirrus clouds! I never thought on using the alpine fractal to make clouds! I'll have to give this a try!