I've just read yet another post in praise of or facilitating theft of software, models, and other IP here. Cut it out or you're going to wreck this place.
You sure? I don't think I've seen any such posts since I've been coming here. Many people do "advertise" their own work (trees, plants, even some software etc) but I don't think I have seen anybody trying to push warez here. Quite refreshing really.
Richard
Quote from: cyphyr on May 11, 2008, 11:30:46 AM
You sure? I don't think I've seen any such posts since I've been coming here. Many people do "advertise" their own work (trees, plants, even some software etc) but I don't think I have seen anybody trying to push warez here. Quite refreshing really.
Richard
"... Most of the time I test the product out first either by using a demo or a pirated copy before i buy it to see if it can, in fact, improve my workflow."
"
i also get a pirated copy's before i buy my software 30days aint long enough to realy get to grips with the program or sometimes there so damn expensive!!! or sometimes i do abit of reverse engineering
i can asure you though that there are now pirated copys of terragen 2 there is though of terragen .9 im affraid i think the reason there are no pirate copys of terragen 2 is because
1 you have to buy terragen 2 deep to actually get the terragen 2 deep program
2 the terragen 2 keyfile is different from most security features such as hexagonal and dongles and spm systems
but its just a matter of time before a dishonest person puts terragen 2 deep up on warez-bb or demonoid
i think getting pirated copies is fine only if you buy the program after you thoroughly tested it. but in most cases this never happens.
heres a fact
68% of people who own adobe photoshop have got it illegally!!!!
"
" think it has to be with sharing the wealth so to speak but anyway lets not stray too far into the great pirate debate."
"I have a copy of poser as well, and if x would have posted the link, I would have downloaded it myself, so I don't think we're in a lot of trouble. "
"You got the wrong link. Our turtle is a Poser 5 object (hoplessly out of date... )"
Quote from: gregsandor on May 11, 2008, 11:39:29 AM
"I have a copy of poser as well, and if x would have posted the link, I would have downloaded it myself, so I don't think we're in a lot of trouble. "
"You got the wrong link. Our turtle is a Poser 5 object (hoplessly out of date... )"
These two are from me, so I will react on these two only...
In this last quote you forgot I said "But you are right about the distributing, so I'll mail it..." This mailing was no distributing because it was his own object he had mailed to me. I only used it to test the bumpmap, not to use it in renders.
Besides the mailing issue, I agreed with you, but you conveniantly left that out. The out of date was a joke by the way, not a serious argument. In this case of the turtle I think you overreacted a little bit. Posting the TGO would have been wrong, you were right about that.
But A: besides that this was no distributing issue...
B: what we mail eachother is none of your business to restrict.
That said, while the piracy issue is our own conscience, it might not be wise to speak about it freely on these forums.
Piracy laws vary per country. I live in the Netherlands. Law here states that I 'may not upload pirated copies, but there are no restrictions on downloading them'. As long as I don't use them commercailly, it's perfectly legal in my country.
But that is the last I will say about it, I will try not to mention it again...
Quote from: cyphyr on May 11, 2008, 11:30:46 AM
Many people do "advertise" their own work (trees, plants, even some software etc)
This is exactly why I wanted to start this discussion. TG2 now has object capabilities for the first time, and we have an explosion of great models coming from users, putting out some really neat stuff. By respecting the licenses of those models we can grow amount of models available to us and continue to encourage new ones.
Personally I don't see the problem in downloading a program to see its features and if you like the workspace. Sometimes a video and demo images just arn't enough to know if it fits you. That is, if they don't offer a free trial for 30 days or whatever. Also some programs just ask too insane of a price for a non-commercial use. Terragen is in a perfect area for me being a college student and wanting something fun to play around with as my personal toy. However, I also enjoy playing in 3ds Max some, and Dreamweaver, and Photoshop. I've been teaching myself web development since I was 10, and quickly outgrew frontpage (ewww). I then really had nowhere to go but these huge expensive programs that I wanted just to learn with not make money off... So maybe I found a copy somewhere for awhile... However, first thing on getting to college I bought the Creative CS3 suite (yay college discounts for educational copies being a total of ~360 bucks). Even then it was expensive but my parents helped pay for it and called it a birthday present. As for 3ds Max, I usually use various demo copies and play around, but maybe once I can find a nice book (any suggestions anyone? for a complete beginner) or a decent course in it I might consider actually buying it, especially if I can find a decent educational price.
The main problem I see with software (from a younger student view), is the fact I want to learn all these programs that might be in my future, but its hard for me to actually learn when the price tag on these things is for huge corporate companies planning to make profits off the software, and our society says downloading the program for free even though I plan to have 0 profit on it is illegal. It wasn't until college that I could even start looking at the educational prices and even then most of them are still a little outrageous for a college student. Software companies really should encourage giving away their software free to educational purposes. Actually, Microsoft does exactly that with some of their software (wow, something Microsoft did that I like). I can get a copy of Visual Studio 2008 and such from them, though my school also offers it with my software package (that cost like 300 bucks for the latest version of office enterprise and 2003 version, norton enterprise, like 3 versions of windows xp, 2 versions of vista, visual studio 2008 and 2005, etc etc etc).
Anyways, I also don't see the point of this topic either, as warez, pirated software, and models hasn't ever been discussed until you started this topic. There was one mention in a previous topic that mentioned he pirated software as a trial because no trial was offered and that was it. But in my few months browsing these forums I can't recall a single other time someone has mentioned piracy or especially stealing models. Every model I've seen offered is there work, offering it to us to use cause they are awesome (I especially <3 lightning). And while people sometimes may forget where they got a model from and who by, they often will admit they forget for sure but can somewhat remember from where to help someone else find it so they can use it too and then also give credit. I personally know some of the models in my library I have no clue who made them anymore, but I could easily search this forum for them and give them credit should I ever use them.
One idea I would like to see is if that people who make models could please start leaving a .txt or a .pdf with their model (and preferably like if you have awesometree.tgo, make it awesometree.txt or .pdf), and inside just some instructions on how to leave credit (like a preferred name or a list of 2 names depending on what forum your on, etc)
Regardless of personal feelings, stealing software is a crime and it can ruin your life, if you're caught. That lifelong scar of your personal life aside, the place that Planetside has setup here has been warez-free. If we want to keep this forum for a great place to come and learn as well as get some good models from time to time, let's scour the place of BS.
QuoteOne idea I would like to see is if that people who make models could please start leaving a .txt or a .pdf with their model (and preferably like if you have awesometree.tgo, make it awesometree.txt or .pdf), and inside just some instructions on how to leave credit (like a preferred name or a list of 2 names depending on what forum your on, etc)
Good idea. It could even include instructions for setting it up, info on scale, and even suggested shaders or other extras.
Quote from: Mohawk20 on May 11, 2008, 12:27:24 PM
Piracy laws vary per country. I live in the Netherlands. Law here states that I 'may not upload pirated copies, but there are no restrictions on downloading them'. As long as I don't use them commercailly, it's perfectly legal in my country.
I highly doubt that Dutch laws say it is completely ok to pirate software and use pirated software, even for personal use. Before you make such claims, I suggest you contact the Netherlands arm of the BSA:
http://w3.bsa.org/netherlands/
Also, think of it like this: You made some awesome software that is very popular. You release it for a fee per license agreement, and ten people pay for a license. A short time later you find out that ten thousand people are using a pirated version of your software, but they all think it's ok because it's for personal use. I highly doubt that you would be ok with people using your software that took you many, many hours to develop, and not pay you for it.
Show me any major piece of software that says it's ok to pirate it as long as it's for personal use only. You can be damned sure that if I wrote some software, and released it on a fee per license agreement that I would want everyone to pay for it whether they are using it for personal use or not. I think it's laughable that people think it's ok to use pirated software. Let's apply this thinking to other goods:
Books:
"Oh, I am only reading this book at home, for personal use, so it's ok to steal a copy and keep it at home"
Movies:
"I am only watching this movie at home, so I don't need to pay for it because it's a personal viewing, and no one else is going to see it"
Household items:
"I am using this office chair at home, so it's ok if I steal it. If I was using it in an office, I would pay for it though, honest"
I challenge you to contact the makers of the pirated software you use and tell them that it's ok to use their software because it's for personal use only, and see what kind of response you get. Because that's the bottom line, if you are afraid to tell the software maker that you are using a pirated version of their software, then you shouldn't be doing it.
It's really quite simple: pay for what you use. Full stop.
Quote from: neuspadrin on May 11, 2008, 12:51:22 PM
The main problem I see with software (from a younger student view), is the fact I want to learn all these programs that might be in my future, but its hard for me to actually learn when the price tag on these things is for huge corporate companies planning to make profits off the software, and our society says downloading the program for free even though I plan to have 0 profit on it is illegal. It wasn't until college that I could even start looking at the educational prices and even then most of them are still a little outrageous for a college student. Software companies really should encourage giving away their software free to educational purposes.
I want to be a F1 driver, but I can't afford an F1 car, so does that mean it's ok for me to steal one so I can learn how to use it until I get a job? Of course not. Making software programs like 3ds Max costs *a lot* of money, hence the price tag. Just because something is expensive, doesn't mean you have a right to use it illegally because you can't afford it, what a stupid argument.
If you have a cash flow problem, there are always legal solutions. Have you tried Blender? It's free. Sure it's not 3ds Max, but when you're 16 years old, you can't go out and buy a Ferrari as your first car because you don't have that kind of money at that age, so you start out with a cheap car.
Oh and boohoo, corporate companies are making profits on software they sell. There's nothing wrong with that! They make the product, they set the price. If you want to make your own 3D software, then you can price it as cheap as you want. Oh but hang on, how are you going to pay for all those many developers who are going to help you build it? Oh no, now you have to raise the price to cover your expenses...etc.
Software piracy is illegal. End of.
I worked in the games industry for over a decade (when you opened the box and had to install off multiple floppies) and it was well known that piracy ruined smaller companies in particular. I get incredibly pissed off when I hear the usual bleating and whining about prices, and "I need to check it out first. Honest, I'll buy it later....". Nearly every piece of software these days is accompanied by a user forum (ahem... look around), or you can request the end user license agreement from the maker prior to purchasing. Then there are reviews, and other fora where you can pose a question to others and see if it sounds like your cup of tea. And let's not forget the software that comes with a trial version, but if the s/w maker doesn't want to do so, tough luck.
There is no excuse to buy or use ripped off software.
If you don't like the price then don't buy it and buy something else. Dead simple. It's not a god-given right to have these things, just like it's not a god-given right to own a house. People work incredibly hard to make software, put their own money and time on the line, and anyone thinking it's okay to use rip offs is seriously misguided. Likewise, people work incredibly hard to buy the software (like me, for instance - one reason I get vexxed about this subject).
Here's one way to change things: Get politically active, step up to the plate, and lobby governments to make software either free or to limit the amount software can be sold for. Hmmm... does that sound stupid? Yup.
Alternatively, make your own software. Hang on, does that sound difficult? Guess what - it is! Now maybe you'd have a tiny inkling as to why software makers get so pissed off to see their apps freely passed around, taking the roof from over their heads in some cases.
Oh yeah; and helping to ruin the software company by feeding a demand doesn't help much either..... the software stops being made if they go bust or profits go out the window. Alternatively, the price has to go up to cover the losses. Ring any bells?
http://www.essaysample.com/essay/002116.html (http://www.essaysample.com/essay/002116.html)
http://www.siia.net/piracy/whatis.asp (http://www.siia.net/piracy/whatis.asp)
added: it took a while to write that post, but I clearly mirror the opinions of others here.
Fortunately there have been fairly few mentions of pirating, warez, etc. here and we would definitely like to keep it that way. As software developers ourselves we don't condone, much less encourage any kind of copyright infringement. What anyone does in private is their own business, but we do need to ask that people refrain from discussing illegal activities here, piracy included.
As far as our handling of the piracy problem, we feel that providing a truly free, not time-limited, not watermarked version is a great way to give those people who would otherwise pirate the program a chance to find out about how it works in the long-term. I think demos, being the standard approach, are fine, but it is reasonably legitimate that for complicated programs it can take longer than a short demo period to see how well it works for you. There is also the value of supporting those who are growing into serious artists and who can't yet afford expensive software. If we work to establish a good relationship with up-and-coming artists by helping them with free software (for example), I think it builds loyalty and inclines them to purchase our product if and when they become able and start to succeed with their work.
You guys can continue to discuss this topic, but please keep it civil and reasonable. The only two things that really matter for us are that you don't post or otherwise use this forum to share materials that are not yours, and that you also not discuss any such activities here. This discussion being a philosophical one is partly excempt from point 2.
- Oshyan
Quote from: neuspadrin on May 11, 2008, 12:51:22 PM
One idea I would like to see is if that people who make models could please start leaving a .txt or a .pdf with their model (and preferably like if you have awesometree.tgo, make it awesometree.txt or .pdf), and inside just some instructions on how to leave credit (like a preferred name or a list of 2 names depending on what forum your on, etc)
sorry guys i wont disccuss this again i keep on forgaeting that most of yous live in the usa where the copyright laws a realy strict down here in nz the laws are so backward you can get away with anything!!!
i already do this..........................
"... Most of the time I test the product out first either by using a demo or a pirated copy before i buy it to see if it can, in fact, improve my workflow."
" think it has to be with sharing the wealth so to speak but anyway lets not stray too far into the great pirate debate."
The are my quotes, so I'll say that I have used pirated software because as a high schools student I make around 20 bucks a week. About 80% of that I make goes to pay for gas, so I can't afford to make mistakes in the software I purchase. So yes I have used pirated copys of software big woop, I either buy them later or get a extra copy from my parents work (they often have about a dozen licenses lying around). I used a copy of XSI for about two months before I forked up that cash to get the educational edition, I used PS for a semester before I could convince my parents to loan me the cash. I don't condone pirating but thats how its goes some people just can't throw cash around (I'm not implying that any of you do). Also I think my last quote basically was a preliminary attempt to stop a flame war lets try to keep it that way.
For Students:
http://www.academicsuperstore.com/
http://www.studica.com/
http://www.trinity3d.com/store/Browse-by-Manufacturer-orderby0-p-1-c-260.html
Most major software vendors have demos as well as specials for students.
For Everyone:
http://www.nevercenter.com (Silo is inexpensive and brilliant)
http://www.luxology.com (Modo is cheaper than most and pretty good)
http://www.getpaint.net/
http://www.daz3d.com (from time to time have discounts on Modo or zBrush as well as other good software, including DAZ Studio, which is free)
http://www.purplus.com (cheap software of all kinds)
http://www.amazon.com (sometimes 3rd-party vendors give special discounts on graphics software)
Another way to get CS2 is to purchase Photoshop 6 (legitimately) and then get the upgrade version to CS2 or CS3 (legitimately) on eBay.
Quote from: lightning on May 11, 2008, 04:40:51 PM
Quote from: neuspadrin on May 11, 2008, 12:51:22 PM
One idea I would like to see is if that people who make models could please start leaving a .txt or a .pdf with their model (and preferably like if you have awesometree.tgo, make it awesometree.txt or .pdf), and inside just some instructions on how to leave credit (like a preferred name or a list of 2 names depending on what forum your on, etc)
i already do this..........................
I know lightning, another reason why I love your models ;).
Anyways, yes in place of 3ds Max I have used blender when messing around and I couldn't find another demo to play with. Actually the most time I've really gotten to spend with 3ds Max is when I was at my high school and they had one computer lab I had a class in had it installed on those computers. I wasn't in the class that was using 3ds Max, but I still played with it as I finished all my work for that class way ahead of time (AutoCAD). I've really only gotten copies of photoshop and dreamweaver to play with until I was in college and could afford and actually qualify for the educational versions.. And actually thinking back I got my copys from my dad's friend's business that had an old copy that they no longer used (it was like photoshop 7.0 and dreamweaver... 8? or before that... I forget). Without the knowledge of playing in both of those I would've never gotten my job that helped me finally pay for my own copy (that I'm very happy to finally have). I also just convinced my boss for my summer job to finally upgrade from GoLive to Dreamweaver, so he just bought 3 licenses of Dreamweaver CS3 thanks to me.
I'm not saying pirating software is a great idea, but it seems like educational reasons should be handled differently by many companies. I'd even be happy if they would just offer their older versions for free (or at least to educational purposes). They arn't likely to make much profit off those versions anymore, but if they offered them free to students, those students are very likely to grow up and then purchase copies or work for companies that do purchase copies of the latest and greatest, which in turn helps out them. Also it'd be nice if the price on some educational copies would drop, then I know I'd be much more likely to buy more of them even just to try out. As some educational copies still are out of the price range of college students without some parental help... and when they do help me with that they often go "happy birthday" or "merry christmas", as it comes out of that.
Quote from: Oshyan on May 11, 2008, 02:57:24 PM
As far as our handling of the piracy problem, we feel that providing a truly free, not time-limited, not watermarked version is a great way to give those people who would otherwise pirate the program a chance to find out about how it works in the long-term. I think demos, being the standard approach, are fine, but it is reasonably legitimate that for complicated programs it can take longer than a short demo period to see how well it works for you. There is also the value of supporting those who are growing into serious artists and who can't yet afford expensive software. If we work to establish a good relationship with up-and-coming artists by helping them with free software (for example), I think it builds loyalty and inclines them to purchase our product if and when they become able and start to succeed with their work.
That is exactly why I love Terragen so much. You guys have a great community and you offer your software free. I like how its not a timed trial. Timed trials are great... but not if you only get like every other weekend free time to actually play with it and learn some. Cause then after just messing with it a few hours total you no longer have a trial. With Terragens policy it allowed me to love the software and learn how it worked, and then also by being affordable I upgraded so I could make myself some nice backgrounds and have more objects to place.
A great free modeling and animation program is anim8or, at www.anim8or.com.
First off, a bit meta discussion:
You can't compare software theft to stealing a car. If you steal a car, someone loses his car. If you steal a program, the software company doesn't make losses.
Using cracked software just isn't right. In the past years, there have been efforts to make software design an easy engineering process. It didn't work. Programming is still non-trivial, hard work that should be paid. And being unable to afford something doesn't give you the right to steal it.
The high prices issue seems to be in a deadlock. There prices are high to compensate for piracy - there's piracy because of high prices. In my opinion the companies have to make the first move here. The lower the price, the more potential customers. The price*#buyers curve probably has an optimum and I doubt it's at $600.
A different solution is using free programs.. there are a lot of them out there.
Quote from: nikita on May 11, 2008, 08:59:16 PM
First off, a bit meta discussion:
You can't compare software theft to stealing a car. If you steal a car, someone loses his car. If you steal a program, the software company doesn't make losses.
Using cracked software just isn't right. In the past years, there have been efforts to make software design an easy engineering process. It didn't work. Programming is still non-trivial, hard work that should be paid. And being unable to afford something doesn't give you the right to steal it.
The high prices issue seems to be in a deadlock. There prices are high to compensate for piracy - there's piracy because of high prices. In my opinion the companies have to make the first move here. The lower the price, the more potential customers. The price*#buyers curve probably has an optimum and I doubt it's at $600.
A different solution is using free programs.. there are a lot of them out there.
While I agree that software vendors should keep their prices as low as possible they have to consider how they are going to re-cope the cost of development of the software; there is also the fact that a publicly owned company (That is one traded on the Stock Exchange) has obligations to be seen making a return to its share holders and so they have their price points adjusted accordingly.
Software is sold in units that is 1 physical software package = 1 unit, therefore software pricey equates to for every 1 illegal software package used = 1 genuine unit not sold and since all software units (excluding open source) have a monetary value in real terms there is a lose to the vendor.
The net affect of software piracy is that in order to recover the lost revenue form each unit not sold is for software vendors to increase the price of the software and thus software piracy increases as a result. With pricing, you should be looking to strike a balance between what your customers are willing to pay and what the demands of a competitive market place say it should be in order for any given vendor to compete with any other, however this balance is seldom if ever achieved due to outside factors such as currency values, the strength or weakness of a given economy and the like; any company weather in the software industry or any other cannot be seen to be either artificially keeping their prices low or be seen to be undercutting, both are illegal in most civilized counties and are likely to result in Anti-Trust and/ or Anti-Cartel investigations.
Regards to you.
Cyber-Angel ;D
Quote from: calico on May 11, 2008, 06:08:40 PM
Another way to get CS2 is to purchase Photoshop 6 (legitimately) and then get the upgrade version to CS2 or CS3 (legitimately) on eBay.
Or you could get GIMP - completely free. Version 2.4 is out, and it's awesome, much better than previous versions as the UI has been redesigned.
www.gimp.org
Quote from: nikita on May 11, 2008, 08:59:16 PM
First off, a bit meta discussion:
You can't compare software theft to stealing a car. If you steal a car, someone loses his car. If you steal a program, the software company doesn't make losses.
I absolutely can compare. You seem to be thinking only of the end user and not considering the big bit before that; Either, the hacker is raiding the car factory and making off with 20% of the cars there, one of which the end user then gets. That's still a 20% loss to the software company on the product. Alternatively (and probably a better analogy), the hacker stole the blueprints, some materials, some robots and assembly line, and is running a factory making the cars himself - it's still theft and the software company loses 20%. I include the loss of manufacturing plant because the losses do actually reduce the company's ability to buy such things after losses or reduction in projected growth, plus the pirates economic growth boosts their manufacturing capability. The legitimate car buyer has to find 20% more to buy a car with. I highly doubt that insurance can be claimed, either, so the net effect is up to double. Worse still, the necessary price hike reduces sales, so the net financial effect can be up to triple.
Don't assume the figures given for losses due to piracy aren't adjusted to allow for those end users who wouldn't have bought the software in the first place. The claimants or prosecutors will have needed to prove the net losses, not just figures plucked out of the air. Feel free to prove me wrong.
Piracy can also reduce employment growth at a company hit by piracy. The pirate doesn't need to do any such thing like create employment, nor do they probably contribute taxes to the running of public services, etc. Just because you're perhaps a "geek" "innocently" downloading apps and cool stuff like it's Christmas doesn't mean these issues don't affect you and those around you. No one lives in a bubble, and there's no such thing as a free lunch.
Another thing to realize is that if you create something with pirated software and you're caught without a license, not only can you be prosecuted but you might find no one wants to do business with you again. Companies can be pretty sensitive about thieves and tend to stick together on issues like this.
The blueprint comparison fits better. I'm not saying there is no loss at all - only that it's different. When you're stealing a car, there is an immediate victim of your crime. When you steal software, there's no immediate victim - the company doesn't even notice and has no losses to book.. you're not even allowed to book a loss. (unless of course, there are special accounting rules for this, I'm not aware of or don't exist in germany)
Piracy does cause damage, but you have to use completely different arguments to prove that. As I said in the rest of my post, I'm not supporting software theft. I just want to raise awareness to problematic arguments. :)
I think Planetside have it in the bag. They provide a complete program for users to download for free, however restricted this is a lot better than the 30 day trial that most others offer. I am more than greatful for the oppertunity to be using Terragen 2(and that hasn't even been fully released yet!) for free at the moment. It's a great gateway for users to get into the fray, without the need to steal.
Most of the bigger companies won't even do this, and they're the ones who could afford to. A small team such as PS doesn't have to but they do anyway, bravo!
As has been stated, there are loads of freebies out there though, here's a few:
Google Sketchup has a free version, it's a really good modelling tool for beginners and experienced users, alike. http://sketchup.google.com/download/
The Gimp is a great alternative to Photoshop/paintshop, and also free. http://www.gimp.org/
DAZ Studio is a fully functional 3D app, and will be free for the duration of it's existence, I'd imagine. They also(if you've signed up to the mailing list) send you regular email notifications for special offers and freebies, like models, shaders, scenes etc. Victoria 4 also comes with the newest release of the program. http://www.daz3d.com/
Crazybump is a fantastic texture creator(quite power hungry though). http://www.crazybump.com/beta/download.html
And hundreds of others...
If you are going to use pirated software, on your own head be it! No one needs to know though so, don't go broadcasting the fact, you'll just look like a fool and people will resent that you've stolen what they've had to pay for, users and publishers both. Some things are best kept to yourself for everyone's sake.
Cyber-Angel..
"Software is sold in units that is 1 physical software package = 1 unit, therefore software pricey equates to for every 1 illegal software package used = 1 genuine unit not sold and since all software units (excluding open source) have a monetary value in real terms there is a lose to the vendor."
Not necessarily so, you are presuming that if the software wasn't available from pirate sources that the piratee would go out and buy it.
Also the software companies aren't stupid. For every X no. of people who download a dodgy copy of say, Photoshop (though why anyone would want that I'm not quite sure) maybe 1 person will actually go out and buy it, or, when they start employment they will persuade their boss etc to buy a copy etc Without those X no. of downloads, the software company wouldn't have made that sale... = 1 genuine unit not sold.
Don't get me wrong, I am in no way condoning piracy, I would be interested though to see figures (yes, I know they don't exist by their very nature) of how many units have been sold off of the back of pirated software that wouldn't have been sold if they weren't downloaded.
Another thing.... if the software companies would stop being sooooo greedy (I'm talking from a UK perspective here) Photoshop from Adobe US $500 US (made up amount) Photoshop from Adobe UK £500.... exchange rate 2$ to the £.... You work out the maths. Again, no excuse for piracy but if you live in the UK, you don't tend to feel very sorry for the US companies who price this way >:(
Just my 2c worth, playing devils advocate
Miles
Quote from: mr-miley on May 12, 2008, 09:21:14 AM
Another thing.... if the software companies would stop being sooooo greedy (I'm talking from a UK perspective here) Photoshop from Adobe US $500 US (made up amount) Photoshop from Adobe UK £500.... exchange rate 2$ to the £.... You work out the maths. Again, no excuse for piracy but if you live in the UK, you don't tend to feel very sorry for the US companies who price this way >:(
There's already been one petition: http://www.gopetition.com/signatures.php?petid=11698 (http://www.gopetition.com/signatures.php?petid=11698)
Here's a discussion on the subject: http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2007/03/csthree_is_a_ma.html (http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2007/03/csthree_is_a_ma.html)
More bits and bobs for those who are interested:
http://grafixnews.net/petition-against-adobe-price-hike (http://grafixnews.net/petition-against-adobe-price-hike)
http://web.mac.com/libine/Site/ENGLISH.html (http://web.mac.com/libine/Site/ENGLISH.html)
http://www.amanwithapencil.com/adobe.html (http://www.amanwithapencil.com/adobe.html)
http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2007/04/25/adobe_vs_the_europeans/ (http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2007/04/25/adobe_vs_the_europeans/)
Start another petition maybe? I'd sign up.
Some interesting comments from Adobe here: http://www.bugeyed.me.uk/2007/04/adobe-cs3-uk-pricing.html (http://www.bugeyed.me.uk/2007/04/adobe-cs3-uk-pricing.html)
Quote from: calico on May 12, 2008, 07:41:41 AM
Another thing to realize is that if you create something with pirated software and you're caught without a license, not only can you be prosecuted but you might find no one wants to do business with you again. Companies can be pretty sensitive about thieves and tend to stick together on issues like this.
Ahhh very good calico, so knowing this and that model makers here hack software. The big question is: Will you still continue to use there models? I don't..
@Mandrake, if I ever do anything to make money, I'll make sure what I'm using is legitimate. As far as some of the people here talking about this, I'm not sure which ones are making WAREZ available to us. I don't think anyone who has posted to the File Section is. If I'm wrong, I would hope Planetside would remove the offending software.
Quote from: calico on May 12, 2008, 01:40:06 PM
@Mandrake, if I ever do anything to make money, I'll make sure what I'm using is legitimate. As far as some of the people here talking about this, I'm not sure which ones are making WAREZ available to us. I don't think anyone who has posted to the File Section is. If I'm wrong, I would hope Planetside would remove the offending software.
I think you missed my point, if you new someone created a model with pirated software, would you use there model?
Nope.
Quote from: Mandrake on May 12, 2008, 02:00:28 PM
...if you new someone created a model with pirated software, would you use there model?
ditto
all the software i use to make my plants is legal except xfrog for maya but i got no idea how to use that ;D
but i have a legal copy of xfrog 3.5 xfrog 4.3 and cinema 4d r10.5 and onyx broad leaf i got them all at student price!
...and I appreciate so many of the trees, bushes, and grass you have made. Some of, if not the best, on here. Your grass was a breakthrough. The only thing you might watch is the non-commercial license thing, when you go to sell your objects. Anyway, that's not my business, except if I go to buy something from you.
Quote from: lightning on May 12, 2008, 04:37:19 PM
all the software i use to make my plants is legal except xfrog for maya but i got no idea how to use that ;D
but i have a legal copy of xfrog 3.5 xfrog 4.3 and cinema 4d r10.5 and onyx broad leaf i got them all at student price!
Quote from: calico on May 12, 2008, 09:12:15 PM
...and I appreciate so many of the trees, bushes, and grass you have made. Some of, if not the best, on here. Your grass was a breakthrough. The only thing you might watch is the non-commercial license thing, when you go to sell your objects. Anyway, that's not my business, except if I go to buy something from you.
Quote from: lightning on May 12, 2008, 04:37:19 PM
all the software i use to make my plants is legal except xfrog for maya but i got no idea how to use that ;D
but i have a legal copy of xfrog 3.5 xfrog 4.3 and cinema 4d r10.5 and onyx broad leaf i got them all at student price!
if you bought my models and which hardly anyone has :( you would have read in the pdf that the models can be used for commercial use
I think what calico is talking about are the licenses for the student-edition programs you use to make your objects. They typically don't allow commercial use.
Quote from: calico on May 12, 2008, 09:12:15 PM
...and I appreciate so many of the trees, bushes, and grass you have made. Some of, if not the best, on here. Your grass was a breakthrough. The only thing you might watch is the non-commercial license thing, when you go to sell your objects. Anyway, that's not my business, except if I go to buy something from you.
Quote from: lightning on May 12, 2008, 04:37:19 PM
all the software i use to make my plants is legal except xfrog for maya but i got no idea how to use that ;D
but i have a legal copy of xfrog 3.5 xfrog 4.3 and cinema 4d r10.5 and onyx broad leaf i got them all at student price!
sorry i didnt read what you said properly ::)
i didnt know about all that non comercial use stuff that sux >:(
afterall i did buy the damn software\
this is why i hate these software companys so much with all this legal shit you have to go through >:(
Thats why I like to buy commercial licenses rather than student licenses though I did get one for XSI.
Quote from: lightning on May 12, 2008, 10:18:58 PMi didnt know about all that non comercial use stuff that sux >:(
afterall i did buy the damn software\
this is why i hate these software companys so much with all this legal shit you have to go through >:(
You're not alone with that problem - nobody reads EULAs ;D Maybe some of your licenses do allow commercial use.. did you check this?
If I ever own a software company, I plan to include the weirdest stuff in my license agreements just to see how long it takes till someone notices. "By using this software you accept the Flying Spaghetti Monster as your creator and god." or "You may only use this software if you eat one small stone each time you start the application. The final definition of 'stone' and 'one' is to be made solely by the vendor."
Quote"You may only use this software if you eat one small stone each time you start the application. The final definition of 'stone' and 'one' is to be made solely by the vendor."
I like that! :D
This is one reason I like software like Silo and Modo. Not too expensive and can still do a lot. Another good software, if you find it on-sale at DAZ or some other place, is zBrush. All of these are pretty affordable, if you have even a part-time job, and all of these have been used to make money by some great modelers and artists.
Heck, even TG2 has been used already to make money by someone who owned the full license. More than once.
@Lightning - Just don't give up. You're very talented and will figure a way out of this. Remember - don't quit. Your stuff is great.
Maybe you can still make some money by donations?
Quote from: calico on May 13, 2008, 08:50:04 AM
This is one reason I like software like Silo and Modo. Not too expensive and can still do a lot. Another good software, if you find it on-sale at DAZ or some other place, is zBrush. All of these are pretty affordable, if you have even a part-time job, and all of these have been used to make money by some great modelers and artists.
Heck, even TG2 has been used already to make money by someone who owned the full license. More than once.
@Lightning - Just don't give up. You're very talented and will figure a way out of this. Remember - don't quit. Your stuff is great.
Who do you know for example? Not that I'm seriously planning to try to earn something with TG2 :)
Besides Digital Domain, TG2 has been used in Golden Compass and Star Trek and Stealth and another movie I can't remember. Somebody from Planetside has more info than I have.
Quote from: Tangled-Universe on May 13, 2008, 09:24:35 AM
Quote from: calico on May 13, 2008, 08:50:04 AM
This is one reason I like software like Silo and Modo. Not too expensive and can still do a lot. Another good software, if you find it on-sale at DAZ or some other place, is zBrush. All of these are pretty affordable, if you have even a part-time job, and all of these have been used to make money by some great modelers and artists.
Heck, even TG2 has been used already to make money by someone who owned the full license. More than once.
@Lightning - Just don't give up. You're very talented and will figure a way out of this. Remember - don't quit. Your stuff is great.
Who do you know for example? Not that I'm seriously planning to try to earn something with TG2 :)
Quote from: calico on May 13, 2008, 10:08:34 AM
Besides Digital Domain, TG2 has been used in Golden Compass and Star Trek and Stealth and another movie I can't remember. Somebody from Planetside has more info than I have.
I think those are Digital Domain projects and thus have been made with Engen.
@nikita - Golden Compass wasn't...for sure. It was made by someone who visits this website.
Quote from: calico on May 13, 2008, 10:08:34 AM
Besides Digital Domain, TG2 has been used in Golden Compass and Star Trek and Stealth and another movie I can't remember. Somebody from Planetside has more info than I have.
Quote from: Tangled-Universe on May 13, 2008, 09:24:35 AM
Quote from: calico on May 13, 2008, 08:50:04 AM
This is one reason I like software like Silo and Modo. Not too expensive and can still do a lot. Another good software, if you find it on-sale at DAZ or some other place, is zBrush. All of these are pretty affordable, if you have even a part-time job, and all of these have been used to make money by some great modelers and artists.
Heck, even TG2 has been used already to make money by someone who owned the full license. More than once.
@Lightning - Just don't give up. You're very talented and will figure a way out of this. Remember - don't quit. Your stuff is great.
Who do you know for example? Not that I'm seriously planning to try to earn something with TG2 :)
I know Old_Blaggard figured out a way to make money with it...
I myself managed to sell a few images as backgrounds and for a magazine somewhere on the other side of the globe to people who visited my site. Lately however, no one seems interested anymore...
I've made very little money with it...simple backgrounds aren't exactly a catalyst for stellar money and so I haven't pursued that any longer.
I know a few people on this site have made some money with TG2, but I also know that TG2 (not DD) has been used in at least a few movies.
Quote from: calico on May 13, 2008, 10:40:46 AMI also know that TG2 (not DD) has been used in at least a few movies.
Anonymous Content have used it for the Saab Blackbird spot - http://www.anonymouscontent.com/director/joseph-kosinksi - and the Mezzo ones that we already know of. Could be more stuff there too, perhaps?
Quote from: calico on May 13, 2008, 10:08:34 AM
Besides Digital Domain, TG2 has been used in Golden Compass and Star Trek and Stealth and another movie I can't remember. Somebody from Planetside has more info than I have.
Quote from: Tangled-Universe on May 13, 2008, 09:24:35 AM
Quote from: calico on May 13, 2008, 08:50:04 AM
This is one reason I like software like Silo and Modo. Not too expensive and can still do a lot. Another good software, if you find it on-sale at DAZ or some other place, is zBrush. All of these are pretty affordable, if you have even a part-time job, and all of these have been used to make money by some great modelers and artists.
Heck, even TG2 has been used already to make money by someone who owned the full license. More than once.
@Lightning - Just don't give up. You're very talented and will figure a way out of this. Remember - don't quit. Your stuff is great.
Who do you know for example? Not that I'm seriously planning to try to earn something with TG2 :)
I was aware of those examples, but thanks anyway. I meant persons, to be more precise.
Can you show us which image was published in that magazine Mohawk?
Or can in general anybody post examples?
I'd like to see which level the work has.
Don't want to bring this topic on a side-track on the other hand...
Quote from: Tangled-Universe on May 13, 2008, 11:11:17 AM
Don't want to bring this topic on a side-track on the other hand...
Why not, you're fulfilling the intention of the thread by not talking about your cracked software ;D
Quote from: nikita on May 13, 2008, 11:17:00 AM
Why not, you're fulfilling the intention of the thread by not talking about your cracked software ;D
Lol ;D
Quote from: Tangled-Universe on May 13, 2008, 11:11:17 AM
Can you show us which image was published in that magazine Mohawk?
Or can in general anybody post examples?
I'd like to see which level the work has.
It's over 4 years ago, it was with the very old TG 0.9, and I can't find which ones where used for the magazine, but here's one that would be used in a game, as well as one I made poster size for someone in 2 formats at 10x the size I post them here...
I don't have a commercial license for TG so I can't sell my stuff, even if I did its not worth buying this community long surpassed me in skill.
Use in Golden Compass would be me, for some of the environment backgrounds around the Gyptian camp. But I was also using the old TG as long ago as Tomb Raider 2 for the base texture/matte painting, mixed with another app for the base terrain (when the camera drops down onto the Great Wall of China).
Cool. I loved that game.
Quote from: JimB on May 13, 2008, 08:52:19 PM
...I was also using the old TG as long ago as Tomb Raider 2 for the base texture/matte painting, mixed with another app for the base terrain (when the camera drops down onto the Great Wall of China).
I mean the film - my bad, should have been more specific :-[
Cool. I loved that movie. 8) :P :P :P :P :P