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General => Image Sharing => Topic started by: ZStar on June 18, 2008, 11:07:42 PM

Title: Worth the Climb - WIP
Post by: ZStar on June 18, 2008, 11:07:42 PM
Here is my latest WIP.  The trees are XFrog, grass is three populations of TG grass clumps, and a simple pyramid object with a fake stone shader for the stone cairn.  The tan grass has a simple stalk and seed head I whipped up in MSPaint  and applied as an image via a default shader. 

I am still working on the stone cairn.  I like the variation in color for the individual stones but I would like to get some additional displacement to rough them up a bit.  However, whenever I apply a shader to get the displacement, it seems to override the fake stone color variations resulting in a pile of uniformly colored stones.  Does anybody know what I'm doing wrong?  Or is this a case of "can't get there from here?"

C&C welcome.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Worth the Climb - WIP
Post by: rcallicotte on June 19, 2008, 08:49:02 AM
This is a very nice render.  Quiet and pleasant.

It might be good to post your TGD to get specific help.  It could be you have blocked the color somehow.  Are you using image maps?
Title: Re: Worth the Climb - WIP
Post by: Tangled-Universe on June 19, 2008, 10:10:52 AM
This is looking good already for a WIP. I like the clouds a lot, they work perfect for this scene.
Besides the fake-stone problem there's one thing I really would change and that's the scale of the waves. They have to be much much smaller to get the correct sense of scales.

The reason your stones lose their colorvariations are because you override the internal color-generator of the fake stone shader by adding a powerfractal (PF). Whether you use it for coloring or displacement it will replace the surfacing and displacement internal input with that of the powerfractal.
Maybe not an exactly true answer but that's how it more or less works.
You can add a default shader or surface layer as surface input for the fake stones and then add seperate PF's for coloring and displacement. For the coloring you should use scales similar of the stones scales to get the color-variations.
Title: Re: Worth the Climb - WIP
Post by: ZStar on June 19, 2008, 11:10:19 AM
Thanks for the comments calico.  I have not used any images on the fake stones.  I had tried a PF directly into the fake stones and the same PF through a material shader. 

T-U, I was not real happy with the water either.  At some resolutions the surface looks like depressions on a flat surface rather than waves.  I will definitely be working on it. 

"This is looking good already for a WIP."  - It has gone through many, many versions to get to this point.   :)   I finally got it to where I felt comfortable sharing and I was hoping for some options about how to deal with the fake stones. 

I'll give your ideas a try.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Worth the Climb - WIP
Post by: rcallicotte on June 19, 2008, 01:40:13 PM
There are lots of TGCs here to use to better understand how many have done something like this.
Title: Re: Worth the Climb - WIP
Post by: ZStar on June 19, 2008, 10:36:48 PM
Thanks calico.  I should be able to find something helpful.
Title: Re: Worth the Climb - WIP
Post by: rcallicotte on June 19, 2008, 11:13:01 PM
@ZStar - It might seem like a blow off, but you'll learn loads by using and picking apart many of these files many people have provided here. 

Please repost here so we see what you did.
Title: Re: Worth the Climb - WIP
Post by: ZStar on June 20, 2008, 09:06:06 AM
calico - I did not take your suggestion as a "blow off."  I have found quite a bit of useful info here.  I did a search on fake stones and came across a .tgc you had posted.  It looks like it might point me in the right direction for what I want. 

Last night I followed up on T-U's water comments and the smaller waves do look better.  Unfortunately the overnight render had some dropouts on the trees so I don't have a good image to post.
Title: Re: Worth the Climb - WIP
Post by: Mr_Lamppost on June 22, 2008, 03:14:33 PM
Your grass looks very good if you are only using the built in grass clumps. Well done, I gave up on them and started using imported objects months ago.  ;D
Title: Re: Worth the Climb - WIP
Post by: ZStar on June 22, 2008, 11:56:53 PM
Yes, Mr_Lamppost, the grass is pure TG other than a simple image and matching opacity mask.  I played around with the TG grass clumps one evening and liked the results so much I incorporated them.  I had tried and failed to get procedural grass to look convincing, even with some of the examples posted in these forums.

I'll try to post a sample in the file sharing forum in the next day or two.
Title: Re: Worth the Climb - WIP
Post by: Tangled-Universe on June 23, 2008, 02:19:14 PM
Looking forward to see your next update.

I have 2 other suggestions by the way:

1)Maybe it's nice to increase the density of the atmospherice hazes a little bit so the far island will have slightly bland look (lower contrast).
I think this could add to the sense of scale and realism.

2) slightly decrease scale/size of the grasses and render them at higher detail and especially AA.
Title: Re: Worth the Climb - WIP
Post by: ZStar on June 24, 2008, 10:01:00 PM
Here is the latest version.  I think I may have reduced the cloud density a little too far.   I managed to get the stones looking better but some are still a little too angular, especially when rendered at higher resolutions.  I also boosted the sunlight intensity.

I forgot to mention in my first post that I was using Oshyan's fill light setup.  There is no GI.  In this version I have modified the fill light set up.  I raised the light elevations from 45deg to 60deg.  I also moved them so that one is directly behind and above the camera and the other two are 70deg to either side.  That puts all three behind the camera's perspective and tends to even out the faint shadows better.

T-U, I appreciate your suggestions.  I did reduce the wave scale and I think it looks better.  I also increased the quality setting for the grass but it probably doesn't make much difference at this resolution.  I tried raising the haze level but I felt it washed things out too much and the horizon seemed to disappear completely.
Title: Re: Worth the Climb - WIP
Post by: Seth on June 25, 2008, 01:18:10 AM
very good tree distribution and nice water.
the clouds and the water melting at the horizon look good to me.
the light seems a bit flat though
Title: Re: Worth the Climb - WIP
Post by: zhotfire on June 25, 2008, 03:59:52 AM
It's great looking inlet. I like the wispy clouds, but agree with seth on the lighting.
Title: Re: Worth the Climb - WIP
Post by: rcallicotte on June 25, 2008, 10:04:06 AM
Again, I really like this.
Title: Re: Worth the Climb - WIP
Post by: gastar on June 26, 2008, 06:24:03 PM
its a nice scene

Gastar
Title: Re: Worth the Climb - WIP
Post by: ZStar on July 04, 2008, 09:54:22 PM
I think I'm almost done with this one.  I changed the tree distribution a little and got the big tree on the left which frames the image nicely.  I got rid of the tiny islands in the channel in the background.  I added a little translucency to the trees.  I think it gives a much more natural look, like backscattered light filtering through the leaves.
Title: Re: Worth the Climb - WIP
Post by: dandelO on July 04, 2008, 10:33:40 PM
Stunning! Beautiful soft-focus effect. I really like this, the shores and outer islands look fantastic, as do the trees.
Well worth the climb, in my opinion!
Title: Re: Worth the Climb - WIP
Post by: moodflow on July 05, 2008, 03:04:19 AM
Wow, the lighting on this scene is fantastic!  This image definitely shows the potential power of TG2 for eclectic scenes. 

Your distribution of the trees is nearly perfect. 

Some of the foreground rocks/dirt are a bit on the "noisy" side and a bit flat on colors, but this is a difficult thing to correct in TG2 - maybe add more reflection to the rocks 0.3 or so, but soften them by upping specular roughness to 0.6 or so.

Nice work.    :o
Title: Re: Worth the Climb - WIP
Post by: Phylloxera on July 05, 2008, 05:09:46 AM
The second version really is successful, the stone heap in the foreground is really interesting, it brings a key of reality to the image! Good work!
Title: Re: Worth the Climb - WIP
Post by: Seth on July 05, 2008, 06:42:30 AM
very very realistic light and atmosphere !
Title: Re: Worth the Climb - WIP
Post by: ZStar on July 05, 2008, 09:38:06 AM
Thanks for the compliments.

Moodflow, I'll give your suggestions a try.  I have really struggled to find the right balance of scales and displacements on the power fractals.  I seem to keep going between two extremes, little or no effect and spikes.  Someday I'll get it figured out.   :)

Thanks Phylloxera.  I felt the image needed some element of a human touch.  The pile of stones seemed like a good way to do that without distracting too much from the natural beauty of the scene.
Title: Re: Worth the Climb - WIP
Post by: Tangled-Universe on July 05, 2008, 10:18:10 AM
This has already greatly improved, I like it even more now :)

The grasses really benefit from the higher render settings and so do the trees.
What's the quality setting of the tree-populations? The left tree seems a bit un-detailed for a render with AA @ 10 and detail @ 1.0.

The water has improved indeed, but I would make the scales even smaller. Maybe so small that it is just not a flat lake. You have to imagine how big these waves look when you're standing next to a tree down at the shore.

If you still have the time and energy :P you could also try to add some color-variation to the soil.

How did you make the pile of stones? It looks really interesting!

Martin

hope you don't mind a posted the same comment here :)
Title: Re: Worth the Climb - WIP
Post by: ZStar on July 05, 2008, 10:05:27 PM
Quote from: Tangled-Universe on July 05, 2008, 10:18:10 AM
hope you don't mind a posted the same comment here :)

I don't mind if you don't mind me repeating my response.   ;D

I did reduce the wave size after your earlier suggestion.  I think I have it set at 2-3m right now.  I had tried it smaller but under the previous version of TG the small waves seemed to cause an increased number of dropped buckets.  I could try going smaller with the new version but I'm still having problems with dropped buckets, just not as bad as it was.  The pile of stones is a simple pyramid object with a high density fake stone shader applied.  I had to keep messing with the settings, scale and location of the pyramid to get to look good.  At this point, only the tip of the pyramid is visible.  This is very much a learning project for me so I probably will keep tweaking it.  I sometimes joke that I never really finish an image.   :)

Most of the foreground trees should be at "Very high quality" and all the others are at "High quality".  I don't know why they don't look better.  Does anyone else have image examples using the free XFrog fir trees?
Title: Re: Worth the Climb - WIP
Post by: Mr_Lamppost on July 07, 2008, 08:15:29 PM
Improvements all round, Excellent. 

For me the biggest improvement is the atmosphere.