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General => Open Discussion => Topic started by: efflux on November 10, 2008, 05:42:13 PM

Title: 3D Coat
Post by: efflux on November 10, 2008, 05:42:13 PM
This is fantastic software and not expensive either. Works on Linux Wine as well. Newer alpha versions have volumetric sculpting.

http://www.3d-coat.com/
Title: Re: 3D Coat
Post by: Will on November 10, 2008, 06:12:09 PM
interesting, seems like a lighter version of Zbrush to me though.
Title: Re: 3D Coat
Post by: rcallicotte on November 10, 2008, 07:06:51 PM
Efflux, have you tried it?  I remember seeing this before and can't remember much about it.
Title: Re: 3D Coat
Post by: efflux on November 11, 2008, 05:01:16 AM
I'm trying it now. On linux but that seems to be no issue whatsoever. At various websites people who use other apps such as ZBrush are raving about this app. I recognize some of these people so it's not BS. I know it's not BS because I'm using it myself.

It's a long time since I tried an app that is simply inspirationally easy to use and that performs amazingly.

$140 and the sculpting in 3D Coat absolutely flies part Modo's chonic sludge of a sculpting tool. There is no comparison. Modo does other stuff of course but it's $895.

3D Coat 3 (not out yet but in alpha which you can test) does volumetric voxel sculpting. It literally is like just sculpting clay out of thin air. I Haven't tried that version yet though.

It also has this easy to use re-topology tool. So you sculpt your form then re-topologize it to make a clean nicely structured mesh. This tool is way better than ZBrush's re-topology too.

This app will be a worry for ZBrush. Finally they have a serious competitor and good that it's the case because although ZBrush is a fantastic app, Pixologic are not such a fantastic company in my opinion. ZBrush works superbly on Linux EXCEPT it appears nobody can license it properly. Pixologic never respond on forms about Linux and they messed the Mac users around something terrible. Closing down any thread in the forum that complained about the ridiculous wait for ZBrush 3 Mac when the users had advance paid. A simple change to the licensing of ZBrush would create the Ultimate ZBrush because on Linux it performs way better even under Wine due to obviously far superior memory management.

I'll test 3D Coat on Windows as well.
Title: Re: 3D Coat
Post by: efflux on November 11, 2008, 05:13:03 AM
It could turn out that the Windows system is much poorer because 3D Coat does use Open GL and I have a Quadro FX card on my Linux system but I'll test it anyway. I can hear the GPU scaling on this card firing up when I start 3D Coat because of the fan.
Title: Re: 3D Coat
Post by: efflux on November 11, 2008, 06:13:33 AM
It's $125 if you buy before the 15 days demo runs out. Seems like a no brainer purchase and especially so if you run Linux.

Some of you may have messed with ArtRage. 3D Coat is like the ArtRage of 3D sculpting.
Title: Re: 3D Coat
Post by: rcallicotte on November 11, 2008, 07:38:30 AM
Thanks for the mini-review.  I remember wanting to try it, but not having time. 
Title: Re: 3D Coat
Post by: efflux on November 11, 2008, 08:56:25 AM
I'm learning this app now. I'll almost certainly be buying this unless I come across some major problem.

This app just takes all the hassle out of modeling completely.

Retopologize tools are awesome. It's unbelievably easy to use.
Title: Re: 3D Coat
Post by: efflux on November 13, 2008, 08:05:52 PM
sayounara ZBrush.

This is some experiments with multi layered brushes in 3D Coat made from Mojoworld texture outputs.  I'm only scratching the surface. Haven't even tried the voxel sculpting. This is not a render but a screen shot of a small detail on a model from the realtime Open GL. 10 million polys no problems on an ancient computer.

This is a texture painter beyond anything. In fact infinite because it has photoshop style layers. You can go on forever with the complexity.

3D Coat is possibly the most awesome app I've come across.

(http://img371.imageshack.us/img371/6466/mojocoatty8.jpg)
Title: Re: 3D Coat
Post by: Will on November 13, 2008, 08:08:35 PM
neat. May I use this space to promote another good texture thinger?

http://www.mapzoneeditor.com/
Title: Re: 3D Coat
Post by: efflux on November 13, 2008, 08:30:47 PM
That looks excellent. Detailed textures are really important. If you look at the full scene renders that use textures from Mapzone they are awesome. Mojoworld is pretty good just for textures as a byproduct rather than full landscapes but for me that's just because I know how to use it. It would be another story if you were starting from scratch, in fact highly inadvisable but Mapzone looks really cool. You could also create awesome brushes from that for use in 3D Coat. The point is that if you use procedural generation it means you can create different but related patterns for colour, depth, specular etc. You can't do that with photos.
Title: Re: 3D Coat
Post by: efflux on November 13, 2008, 08:33:03 PM
It also looks as though the tiling is really nice.
Title: Re: 3D Coat
Post by: efflux on November 14, 2008, 07:01:16 AM
Bear in mind that TG2 is a pretty good procedural texture generator. It needs more fractal power and basis functions which is why I'm using Mojo for this stuff. No doubt Matt will add this. More fractal power, a curve graph and colour gradient is all that is needed.

Also, this 3D coat can work in a number of cool ways with TG2. You can make brushes from TG2 textures but you can also sculpt terrains in 3D coat for use in TG2. I'm going to experiment with this a bit.

If you think about how you might make or edit heightfields in a 2D app like photoshop then think of 3D Coat as the same but giving you a full real time 3D view. It has all the layer blending, masking etc of photoshop along with a bunch of texturing tools like fractals.
Title: Re: 3D Coat
Post by: rcallicotte on November 14, 2008, 09:15:32 AM
Efflux, I'd like to see something to better understand where you're going with this. 
Title: Re: 3D Coat
Post by: efflux on November 14, 2008, 10:53:37 AM
I'm going to try some other things in particular things that relate to TG2 but!

OH MY GOD I'm now running 3D Coat 3 ALPHA40 volumetric sculpting. Most superb computer graphics app EVER!

By the way, you need a decent graphics card because I tried it on my windows system which has an old radeon. Not too good but then again the app is cheap so a decent graphics card is worth it.
Title: Re: 3D Coat
Post by: rcallicotte on November 14, 2008, 11:14:41 AM
As far as a decent video card, I've wondered about getting one of those high-end Nvidia cards.  What are you using?
Title: Re: 3D Coat
Post by: efflux on November 14, 2008, 11:26:37 AM
My system is an old PIV 3.0 GHz hyperthreading. In fact I have two of these. I now have a Quadro FX 3000 card bought from eBay just for more Open GL. For example 3D Coat would be no good if I hadn't done that but it's a stop gap until I get a new system.

The real top end cards are overkill for certain apps. Obviously total overkill for TG2 but a lot 3D modeling apps don't even utilize the full power of the Open GL shaders. For example it wouldn't surprise me if the previous owner of this Quadro I have never got the full effects from it.

That's something I'll be looking into because high end graphics cards are very expensive. In fact I think it's really good buy to get older systems but with top end cards that have plummeted in value. A lot of people have the cutting edge then ditch them when something even faster comes out.
Title: Re: 3D Coat
Post by: rcallicotte on November 14, 2008, 11:37:21 AM
I think you're right.  Ebay is a good place to check.

Thanks.
Title: Re: 3D Coat
Post by: efflux on November 14, 2008, 03:22:37 PM
This app is awesome for creating or editing terrain heightfields. You bring them in as displacement textures and just wander around spreading stony textures or eroded effects with brushes but it especially brilliant if you have a graphics tablet because you can vary it all with pressure sensitivity.
Title: Re: 3D Coat
Post by: rcallicotte on November 14, 2008, 03:29:19 PM
How do you do this?  Bring the heightfield into 3D Coat and just work on it there.  Then, export it as a heightfiled?

I need to check this out.
Title: Re: 3D Coat
Post by: efflux on November 14, 2008, 03:53:10 PM
I'm using Mojo heightfield outputs. Getting stuff out of TG2 seems a lot of hassle. You can get .ter files but then you have to convert those. Supposedly you can get .exr out. I can't get that to work but at the end of the day it's best to get terrain from elsewhere. TG2 is not as good for terrain as some other apps.

You bring in a flat plain of polys then apply a displacement texture to it - your heightfield. This then displaces the flat polys obviously. Then you just get to work with all the immense power in 3D Coat to paint whatever you want. You then export that displacement texture. You can create your own brushes, you have layers, you can even bring in another picture move it around and stamp in in. There is no point in even explaining anything. You can do everything with this app. Tablets are awesome though because then you have vast variation with the brushes.

I'm still experimenting but I may post some screenshots of some terrain being worked out.
Title: Re: 3D Coat
Post by: efflux on November 14, 2008, 03:57:11 PM
I already told someone someone who uses Mojo about this app. They just went and bought it straight away. You just don't argue about something as brilliant and low priced as this. It will not remain at the present price that's for sure.
Title: Re: 3D Coat
Post by: Mohawk20 on November 14, 2008, 05:40:24 PM
Quote from: efflux on November 14, 2008, 03:53:10 PM
Supposedly you can get .exr out. I can't get that to work...

If you export as exr, you have to open it in an app that can read it, like PhotoShop, and then you have to adjust the exposure settings until you have the right balance between black and white (I believe it starts completely white, if memory serves).
Not so hard once you've figured it out...
Title: Re: 3D Coat
Post by: efflux on November 14, 2008, 06:13:13 PM
I have one app that I sometimes use in Linux which can read .exr but the preview (which can also convert images) on my OSX system normally views .exr. It doesn't work with TG2 outputs. All I see is white.

I've had nightmares of file formats here. I think I need 16 bit out of Mojo (I'm not sure about this but the .png output is certainly useless) I've now got exactly what I want in 3D Coat. A beautifully detailed terrain to edit. I can sculpt into this like a piece of clay with numerous tools and pens which I can create myself.

(http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/4088/mojocoattf0.jpg)
Title: Re: 3D Coat
Post by: Matt on November 14, 2008, 06:21:38 PM
The values in the EXR files saved from heightfields are the elevations in metres, to minimise ambiguity about how to scale the data. Most values are therefore greater than 1, so a very basic EXR previewer will show white almost everywhere.

Matt
Title: Re: 3D Coat
Post by: efflux on November 14, 2008, 06:41:16 PM
OK thanks for the reply. I will look into this.
Title: Re: 3D Coat
Post by: efflux on November 14, 2008, 06:55:17 PM
For TG2 terrain you can use TerraConv to take the .ter to .tif then straight into 3D Coat as .tif.
Title: Re: 3D Coat
Post by: efflux on November 15, 2008, 11:09:19 AM
They're all history. At least for organic modeling. Every single one of them useless compared to 3D Coat. Modo, Silo, Lightwave, Maya, you name them. ALL rubbish compared to this app. It's a masterpiece. This weird blob took seconds to model. People are reporting 90 million polys on top end systems. Retopology is the most superb in any app I've seen.

(http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/7730/voxeljw4.jpg)
Title: Re: 3D Coat
Post by: Mohawk20 on November 15, 2008, 01:32:33 PM
90 million polys... is that a good thing, or a bad thing?
Title: Re: 3D Coat
Post by: Oshyan on November 15, 2008, 06:04:52 PM
Quote from: Mohawk20 on November 15, 2008, 01:32:33 PM
90 million polys... is that a good thing, or a bad thing?

That would be a good thing if it can handle that level and maintain a good interaction speed.

Efflux, you haven't mentioned Mudbox yet. Any reason for that?

- Oshyan
Title: Re: 3D Coat
Post by: efflux on November 15, 2008, 06:52:28 PM
I never tried Mudbox. One of the few apps I never tried. People say it is good. I think a Mac version is coming and maybe it works on Wine as well but for a lot of time I was looking specifically at Mac and Linux apps. I've looked at people using Mudbox in tutorials etc and it looked quite straightforward. I have used ZBrush but ZBrush has things like the ZSpheres which are pretty cool and it has a beautiful realtime view which doesn't rely on Open GL shaders. However, 3D Coat is like a revolution especially with this voxel painting. You paint 3D shapes out of thin air with a brush. It's simply incredible but like I say it doesn't end there because it's other tools are brilliant. The only down side is that you definitely need a decent graphics card since it does use Open GL but it makes good use of the Open GL shading.

The guy who develops it is also games designer so that probably figures.

I've messed with modeling for years but was never satisfied probably because I come from a drawing background and poly modeling is very tedious. The only modeling app that interested me, at least for organic modeling, was ZBrush.

So now I can start doing modeling. Instead of dreading the tedium, this 3D Coat totally inspires you. You can doodle in 3D. I've found myself sculpting abstract shapes then suddenly seeing a face of something that I can work on further.

The reason it's bad news for a lot of these big industry standard apps is that people are not going to do any organic modeling or texturing in those apps any more. They have become animation apps. This means that something like Blender suddenly becomes very attractive because it's good for animation. All that's left is a good rendering engine.

An app like Silo is now totally redundant.

What we'll most likely see though is other apps suddenly having to take this on board. Poly modeling characters is now a dead concept. Only the topology afterwards needs sorted.
Title: Re: 3D Coat
Post by: efflux on November 15, 2008, 07:09:01 PM
I still have faith in Modo though. The reason for this is the way that app operates across all it's tools but this will not show through completely until animation is finished. For example while an animation is running in Open GL you can change something on a model and you will see that change happening in the animation. It's not like a whole load of separate modes. Luxology got on this sculpting bandwagon though and failed miserably. I wouldn't do any sculpting or texturing in Modo. It's also got an extremely fast renderer which adds to it's potential animation power. I tested Modo on Linux. It works but not completely well. Rendering is fine though and I think even if Lux do not carry on with the Linux version of the whole app they will certainly have to have a Linux renderer.
Title: Re: 3D Coat
Post by: lightning on November 15, 2008, 07:14:15 PM
i bought this a while back because i loved the trial so much and because i was so sick of zbrush i now use mudbox and 3dcoat and they work like a charm usually i do all the sculpting in mudox because thats what its best at then do the texturing in 3dcoat because its so easy to use!
Title: Re: 3D Coat
Post by: efflux on November 15, 2008, 07:17:15 PM
Have you checked out the voxel sculpting? It's still alpha so problems are possible but it's amazing. I have huge faith in this 3D Coat because it seems like the guy totally understands how to make everything incredibly easy.
Title: Re: 3D Coat
Post by: efflux on November 15, 2008, 07:50:29 PM
I've been through so many of these apps you wouldn't believe. First app was 3DMax. I spent ages in Lightwave then Cinema 4D (not bad). I tried Maya bu that didn't last long because by then I had tried other modeling apps with better concepts about how to model. Maya may be good for animation though. XSI didn't make it onto any of my systems and won't due to cost, insane licensing (couldn't even install it on Linux when there is a Linux version) and they ignore your mails. I've been through dozens of modeling apps. Can't even remember them all. Blender is still on my systems and gradually improves all the time. It's free so why not use it and it's pretty good anyway.

The problem now is rendering. That is an issue in Blender. I've tried this new GPL renderer called Luxrender. Great results but it's very slow. OK for stills I guess. Early days though. It may get a lot better. I'm not shelling out big bucks just for rendering. That's why Modo is an option. However there is some new cool stuff in the pipeline for future Blenders. This technology called Lightcuts for example. It all produces excellent results but too slowly.
Title: Re: 3D Coat
Post by: efflux on November 15, 2008, 08:04:31 PM
It's on Apple's site now:

http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/imaging_3d/3dcoat.html

Apple diehards won't like that UI. Certainly not the default one. That is definitely an eyesore on the cool Aqua desktop. A new UI is coming apparently.
Title: Re: 3D Coat
Post by: lightning on November 15, 2008, 08:09:23 PM
why don't you use Indigo renderer for blender you can get it on linux as well ;D
its very realistic here are some shots
(http://www.indigorenderer.com/joomla/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=20812&g2_serialNumber=2&g2_GALLERYSID=321129294c694ea6a2d5058aaf19d09)
(http://www.indigorenderer.com/joomla/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=21690&g2_serialNumber=2&g2_GALLERYSID=321129294c694ea6a2d5058aaf19d091)
go to http://www.indigorenderer.com (http://www.indigorenderer.com)
Title: Re: 3D Coat
Post by: efflux on November 15, 2008, 08:26:36 PM
I saw that and I know a lot of people use it and results are good. It's supposed to be reasonably fast compared to the others. However, I did read that it runs with Wine. Not that this is necessarily a problem but it seems that it's integration with Blender is not as good as Yafray and Luxrender. There is now another Yafray called Yafaray but you need a special Blender build meaning you have to step back several versions of Blender. Luxrender looks very hopeful for two reasons. It's integration with Blender is very good and easy. The other reason is that it's being developed by a studio that specializes in animation. That obviously means they will make it good for animation. It also runs as a standalone UI app with some control of threads etc. There is one minor downside. I can't presently run it in it's icc compiled version but only gcc which apparently is substantially slower. It says my CPU is not supported when I try to run it despite the fact that specs say it is. Since this renderer uses some heavy rendering techniques then every second counts or you wait ages.

Blender is not necessarily a must have part of the pipe but I'll be using it more soon. This is an area I will finally be starting to produce some work in due to decent software at last.
Title: Re: 3D Coat
Post by: efflux on November 15, 2008, 08:37:07 PM
The Blender renderer is actually OK for some purposes. It's quite fast and would be fine for say something like that Big Buck Bunny movie they did but if you want realistic lighting it's not too good. No GI for a start. They just need to improve Blender's internal engine or use one that can utilize all of Blenders internal shaders etc seamlessly. Then Blender becomes a very serious app.
Title: Re: 3D Coat
Post by: efflux on November 15, 2008, 08:50:46 PM
I'm loathed to spend a lot of money on software. The successful models seem to be small companies with sensibly priced software and now open source. I've spent money on audio software in the past. Protools and Logic Pro for example. Both now ditched for superior almost 100% free software. The only exception being occasional use of FL Studio. I've been through every terrible sequencer there is. This is why earlier in this thread (actually somewhere else on the forum I think) I said 99% of software is terrible because in my experience that is true and it's often entirely due to terrible UI.
Title: Re: 3D Coat
Post by: efflux on November 15, 2008, 09:05:11 PM
Check out some of these renders from Luxrender. Most are modeled in Blender. Makes you wonder why anyone who is doing this kind of work is paying for software. Yes there are faster renderers but they'll cost you a fortune.

http://www.luxrender.net/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=208
Title: Re: 3D Coat
Post by: efflux on November 15, 2008, 11:47:00 PM
I looked at videos of Mudbox 2009. It looks good. I can understand why some people would choose this over ZBrush but let me get this straight. Mudbox is a painting app or at least that's part of it's function now but it has no color palettes and calls up the windows color picker!
Title: Re: 3D Coat
Post by: rcallicotte on November 17, 2008, 07:55:05 AM
Don't be too excited.  For the price, they need to fix a whole lot of bugs.

Those Luxrender images are amazing.



Quote from: efflux on November 15, 2008, 07:09:01 PM
I still have faith in Modo though.
Title: Re: 3D Coat
Post by: efflux on November 18, 2008, 06:10:28 AM
I know of a big bug in my version of Modo 2.0.3 and I hardly even use Modo. The tabs at the top are supposed to change the layouts from model to paint etc. Try changing to your own layout and it doesn't save it right. It reverts back or something like that. Can't even remember but it's a bug that destroys the whole UI concept. Does Blender have a bug like this? No it would probably never get past the testing phase.

It's all hype and lack of substance.

This is the color controls of 3D Coat which is actually in flux at the moment because the bar on the right and the large color picker are becoming redundant. The large color picker opens when you click the small color boxes like Gimp or photoshop but it doesn't function quite right (doesn't choose colours until you click OK). You use the floating popup version on the left. Right click chooses primary colour and left click chooses secondary. These two colours can be randomly changed as you paint - gradations between these colours if you want. Then you have your palettes to save colour combinations. Notice that you can also bring a picture into the colour pickers. This is how any app calling itself a painting app needs to be. I watch Mudbox demo videos where people are opening the OS color picker then closing it to choose a single colour. Absolutely absurd. TG2 uses the OS colour picker but TG2 is a landscape app. It's not a priority but maybe we'll get colour gradients in the future.

(http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/530/colorpickerii7.jpg)
Title: Re: 3D Coat
Post by: efflux on November 18, 2008, 06:39:23 AM
I watched some videos of someone using Maya last night, not because it was Maya but I was just interested in a technique. Unbelievable and these people critique Blender. Maya may be very powerful but the UI is dire. Hundreds of icons and buttons everywhere and this guy (expert) was clicking on icons. What happened to keyboard shortcuts or do icons make you lazy. Windows everywhere then he had to use ACDSee image viewer because the Maya browser wouldn't preview some picture types. Of course he had the usual errors and virus software popping up in the Middle of this tutorial.

Blender has an image browser. It open as a panel in the main UI same way as a 3D view does. Easy but Blender is a disaster area apparently?

My feeling is that a lot of these people are justifying spending a whole shed load of cash rather than making any sensible arguments as to exactly why these apps are so superior.
Title: Re: 3D Coat
Post by: efflux on November 18, 2008, 07:14:58 AM
In 3D Coat you can also bucket fill layers with colours but not just colours, entire textures. You have various styles of gradients that you draw onto the model so when you bucket fill - the entire texture can gradate into another texture. It is ways more powerful than Mudbox in this respect. Maybe very good for displacement painting but £450?
Title: Re: 3D Coat
Post by: efflux on December 13, 2008, 11:02:14 AM
Check out some of the stuff on this page.

http://3d-coat.com/v3_voxel_sculpting.html

People are going to flock to this app. ZBrush? Mudbox? No chance.
Title: Re: 3D Coat
Post by: moodflow on December 13, 2008, 11:41:54 AM
Efflux, this is a fantastic find!  I gave mudbox a try and loved it, but this looks amazing.
Title: Re: 3D Coat
Post by: Lucio on December 13, 2008, 06:15:12 PM
thank you very very much about this find. it's going to be a lifesaver

also thanks to will for mapzone
Title: Re: 3D Coat
Post by: efflux on December 13, 2008, 07:10:51 PM
3D Coat is the most amazing I've ever tried. It's in a bit of a flux at the moment with the UI which will be much better in v3.0 when it's finished. To my mind this is the app that ZBrush and Mudbox aught to have been. The only real disadvantage (if you can call it that) compared to ZBrush is that it utilizes Open GL instead of being like ZBrush and using the CPU. This obviously means you need a decent graphics card but given the advances with graphics cards now this is becoming much less of an issue.

I tried Mapzone. That's a cool app as well. In fact could be very useful with TG2 because of the beautifully intricate natural textures you can get. It didn't do what I initially imagined i.e. create procedural textures. You have to do that yourself or use their preset files but you need to make them roughly tileable first. The beauty comes in the way you process those files. You can make all kinds of amazing permutations of textures from one texture or several. It's very cool. It even ties in with 3D Coat nicely as well because you can create multi layered photoshop format brushes for 3D Coat for controlling colour, displacement and specular in the same brush. Mapzone is great for creating those layers. It also gives you good feedback on what the texture will ultimately look like with displacement etc.

Title: Re: 3D Coat
Post by: efflux on December 13, 2008, 07:50:17 PM
In fact I love 3D Coat so much I would buy a new computer just to run it. I don't know how that plays with Linux Wine though because I want a 64 bit Linux system but Andrew (developer) has mentioned he would like to do a 64 bit Linux version. The guy who ported 3D Coat to Mac can also do a Linux version. The Mac port took a few months. Makes you wonder about ZBrush v3 taking years to go to Mac. They don't need to port ZBrush to Linux though. It works better under Wine than it does in Windows.
Title: Re: 3D Coat
Post by: freelancah on December 19, 2008, 06:02:40 AM
Thanks for the introduction to this program. I tried the trial and bought it. The price is very cheap compared to rivaling apps. Also seems like my graphics card is going to get a run for it's money since it's CUDA supported!
Title: Re: 3D Coat
Post by: efflux on December 19, 2008, 09:47:23 AM
Mine doesn't have Cuda. It's a Quadro but just a little too old to have Cuda. I also find I get crashes if I choose the menu with the fancy open GL shaders but I'm on Linux so that's probably an issue.
Title: Re: 3D Coat
Post by: efflux on December 19, 2008, 09:51:48 AM
By the way. Anyone wishing to try this app is best to get the alpha of v3 because that has the voxel sculpting which is the most superb aspect. You can download that at the 3D Coat forum.

Just one more point. A version of this app actually has a tree generator. I think this has been added in the latest alpha version but I never tried it.
Title: Re: 3D Coat
Post by: freelancah on December 19, 2008, 10:54:39 AM
I'm going to explore more of the alpha next year. What I already tried was awesome. I wish I could try more of it now but I dont have a computer that is capeable to handle the program with me here, since I'm not home anymore..
Title: Re: 3D Coat
Post by: otakar on December 19, 2008, 11:27:03 AM
The Tree Generator does look interesting, though from the images posted it seems leafs are always oriented one way, which greatly detracts from realism. May be ok for distant trees, though and it sure is a nice freebie for 3DC customers.

http://3dbrush.kriska.hvosting.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=1003
Title: Re: 3D Coat
Post by: old_blaggard on December 19, 2008, 02:16:30 PM
Wow, this is amazingly fun. I might have to buy it ;). Is it a better idea price-wise to buy version 2 now and then upgrade to version 3 or to hold out until version 3 comes out in the next couple of months?
Title: Re: 3D Coat
Post by: efflux on December 21, 2008, 09:00:40 AM
I think version 3 will be $200. I don't know what the upgrade will be but I expect it will be around the same cost no matter what you do.

My opinion is that against the cost of ZBrush and Mudbox then 3D Coat compares great because with the saved money you can invest in a better graphics card which will not just be for 3D Coat.

I assume the leaves are made of large textures with transparency so hence flat. I haven't used that tool yet but probably won't anyway. The guy who developed this app originally developed games so this is why everything is designed for maximum efficiency which helps with all aspects of the app. For a games developer 3D Coat is perfect.
Title: Re: 3D Coat
Post by: freelancah on December 21, 2008, 12:30:22 PM
From what i read you might save around 20 bucks by purchasing earlier. I read it in some thread on the forum..
Title: Re: 3D Coat
Post by: efflux on December 23, 2008, 04:23:56 PM
I just noticed this thread is now linked to at the 3D Coat site along with many other threads at well known software forums. All positive stuff. I guess I've promoted the app pretty well on this thread but I stand by it. I think it's fantastic.
Title: Re: 3D Coat
Post by: efflux on December 23, 2008, 04:35:47 PM
There is no real work forthcoming from me at the moment because I'm currently trying to integrate my drawing skills by using a new tablet PC I got and I'm learning anatomy. Intentions are to use this as reference to begin work in 3D Coat. Then I'm setting up music production stuff. As usual biting off way more than I can chew and it could be a while before I start integrating stuff in TG2.

I have concepts for entire movies going back years. Piles of work on paper. An entire cast of characters made for animation. I even have music. All anybody has seen on the net is my landscape stuff in TG2 and Mojoworld. The trouble is there is simply no way I can single handedly realize all this stuff. This is why the software frustrates me and when an app like 3D Coat comes along it so cool.
Title: Re: 3D Coat
Post by: jaf on December 23, 2008, 10:30:28 PM
3DCoat has become my favorite graphics program.  The main programmer, Andrew Shpagin, is fantastic.  He answers the forum questions promptly and turns out updates at a phenomenal pace.  Take a look at the current alpha thread here:
   http://3dbrush.kriska.hvosting.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=1412&st=0&start=0
... which started on September 5, 2008.  There's 104 pages and the version is now at 47!  Forty-seven updates in 100+ days!

He's gone from a 32 bit Windows version, to 64 bit dx and gl, Mac.  He added the 3DConnexion Space Mouse or Space Navigator in just a few hours after it was requested.  People have been "banging" on Newtek and other developers for that support and they either don't care or can't do it.

He has added Nividia CUDA support to the alpha versions.

And very freindly forums.

Title: Re: 3D Coat
Post by: rcallicotte on December 23, 2008, 10:41:34 PM
Thanks efflux.  I'm trying the demo and love it.  I already own zBrush, though so I wonder about learning another application, etc.
Title: Re: 3D Coat
Post by: efflux on January 05, 2009, 05:50:52 PM
ZBrush is still very good but it could be better.

These applications are emulating what you do in the real world. Sculpting and painting. Therefore they should not be difficult with todays computer power. It should take little time to master them. 3D Coat could be mastered in a week.

Apps like TG2 are different. Any previous artistic skills help in TG2 like any graphics app but unfortunately there is a massive technical learning curve in doing procedural landscapes because it doesn't have the same real world equivalent. To get good results you have to learn a huge amount about minutely tweaking distributions, fractals, atmosphere settings etc etc.
Title: Re: 3D Coat
Post by: rcallicotte on January 06, 2009, 09:32:31 AM
What is critical is focus.  There are so many applications that no one in my understanding of a real person could learn all of these and do well at everything. 
Title: Re: 3D Coat
Post by: efflux on January 06, 2009, 08:09:51 PM
I've wasted huge amounts of time on apps I never use now. The trouble is, you have to at least partly learn them to find out that they are no good at least not for you.

I'm in a phase of focusing now (actually working in TG2 at the moment). All apps I don't need have been ditched.
Title: Re: 3D Coat
Post by: old_blaggard on February 15, 2009, 12:39:09 PM
3D-Coat is currently on sale for Mac users at http://www.mupromo.com, for $75. It has a normal upgrade path to version 3. The deal is only today, but it looks good!
Title: Re: 3D Coat
Post by: Seth on February 15, 2009, 03:47:04 PM
damn ! that's cheap ^^
anybody using this software so far ?
i tried ZBrush some times ago and it was reaaal good so... i may try this one too but if someone is playing with it, i will be glad to hear some feedbacks ;)
Title: Re: 3D Coat
Post by: old_blaggard on February 15, 2009, 04:22:48 PM
I have played with it, and I haven't had time to go that in depth with it, but I really enjoyed it. Efflux is in love with it, so you can ask him for more input. You can also look on the internet for reviews and stuff. Note that this is for the Mac version only.

EDIT: Rephrased a sentence to make it sound less mean.
Title: Re: 3D Coat
Post by: Seth on February 15, 2009, 04:44:02 PM
yeah i saw... and cried :'(
Title: Re: 3D Coat
Post by: Seth on March 14, 2009, 09:50:15 AM
i must say that i prefer ZBrush... but the price might be a good argument for chosing this alternative
Title: Re: 3D Coat
Post by: Martians on March 16, 2009, 07:37:46 PM
Okay, after reading this post I decided to give 3D Coat a try..

It's compatible with my Wacom Tablet AND my Space Pilot (neither Mudbox or ZBrush are), which means 6 D freedom, while sculpting!!!

Combined with CUDA and and a 3.2 quad core it is a truly mind-bending experience...

I was never much into modeling, mostly due to the sometimes tedious process of pushing vertexes around. But now, that is going to change :)

The Voxel sculting in 3D Coat is just incredible...


Title: Re: 3D Coat
Post by: rcallicotte on May 19, 2009, 10:08:31 AM
@efflux - Since I know you're into 3D Coat, I thought you would find this thread interesting, though the link to the final work is no longer available - http://setuptab.com/index.php/topic,198.0.html
Title: Re: 3D Coat
Post by: efflux on June 12, 2009, 05:30:52 AM
3D Coat v3.00 is out now. The UI is much clearer to understand than trying to work in the alpha version.

If you just forget about the texture painting capabilities and try the the voxel painting it is a revelation. Worth buying just for that. You can build models in this from scratch then retopologize for poly model. It is so easy as to be insane.

Unfortunately I can't use those real time shaders due to my graphics card and running on Linux but even that is not a major issue considering all the things this app does.
Title: Re: 3D Coat
Post by: efflux on June 12, 2009, 06:14:29 AM
Check out the videos:

http://www.3d-coat.com/voxel_tutorial.html

I just tested the cloth tool. This is mad. You can even bring in another object to use as cloth and melt it over your voxel shape. Then make the melted glob into voxels.
Title: Re: 3D Coat
Post by: efflux on June 12, 2009, 09:02:43 AM
I can't stress enough. This app is revolutionary. Can't wait to have some more time with it.The voxel sculpting is just amazing. Couldn't be assed doing any modeling before this.
Title: Re: 3D Coat
Post by: pfrancke on October 10, 2009, 09:59:53 PM
Can you describe a 3dcoat workflow that one would use to create an obj file with multiple materials?  Such that you could use it in TG2 and plug more textures, etc into it?  I would love to use such a program to take perhaps a xenodream object, or other objects, and use 3dcoat to do re-topology to somehow get multiple materials and then bring it into tg2.  Any advice much appreciated!!