What do you say? Are we ready for another contest? If so, how is this for an idea? --
- We can work in teams
- We can work as individuals
- The theme would be based upon what we agree upon in this thread, but let's duplicate a movie scene that everyone has access to see either by movies or by still images
- We will eventually post a poll to decide which scene or scenes are allowed into the entries, but the goal will be the same for everyone - duplicating from the same scene or scenes
- Postwork is allowed,
but less than 30% - no heavy postwork allowed[edit - Postwork is allowed] - We might need to allow work from other 3D applications, but let's find points of agreement
- The render must be accomplished in TG2 only - this is critical to the integrity of the contest
- Professionals are invited, but only if they work blindfolded ;D Kidding, of course, but everyone is welcome
Any more ideas, before we start brainstorming to agree upon the contest rules?
Is the goal an animation, or just still images?
For now, let's stay with still images. Is this alright? I'm concerned that some of us (me included) do not have enough experience with animations yet and it might be better to wait until Planetside re-works these tools anyway.
What does anyone think? What do you think, Mohawk?
I like it, I'm in!
(Always up for a challenge!)
I'm in, though if we do animations or images we should split up the voting.
I'm in, but only for still images. I can't work out the animations much past turning the camera round :D.
Don't worry guys, there won't be any anims.
Though maybe for those who like we could animate the winning scene after the competition...
I'd be up for this, I love doing recreations. Stills though.
I have kinda wanted to make vergon 6, from futurama.
Okay then. We need ideas...more ideas. ;D
Well, do we all work to the same movie or do we have an open choice?
How about a list of say 5(or so) different movies that we can all choose from to make a TG scene? Post a list and each member choose your poison...
I think this is a great idea but (and I may be jumping ahead of myself here) I would like to see a contest focusing on how Terragen could be used in a real world scenario. I can almost guarantee that Terragen (or any other landscape app) will never be used entirely on its own in a production environment. It will always be part of a composite workflow incorporating elements taken from other packages. Imagine your working for a Hollywood studio, the technical director of the next big block buster needs some stunning imagery for the climax/intro/establishing shot. Your task would be to create set extensions, matt paintings or sfx seamlessly incorporating real world footage and Terragen originated atrwork. The challenge would match lighting/texturing and camera/object positioning between different apps, real world footage and Terragen. Not an easy challenge but I think were more than up to the task. There is a wealth of talent here, a desire to learn and a community of artists who are very willing to share their knowledge, we can all learn from eachother.
What d'ya think?
richard
Quote from: calico on November 24, 2008, 08:00:03 AM
Any more ideas, before we start brainstorming to agree upon the contest rules?
I like the animations idea. :)
Working in teams would facilitate:
- rendering to be split amongst team members (for those with Deep + Anim).
- animation and asset interchange techniques between TG2 and other packages to be established (ie documented).
- ideal opportunity for people not so au fait with animation or working in a 'pipeline' to gain a better understanding.
About the post work: I feel that anything and in any amount should be permitted, as long as TG2 plays an important role - the final image or sequence afterall is all that matters (2.5D projections, matte painting, heavy compositing usage and other 'cheat' techniques should all be acceptable). A stipulation would be that WIP threads are thorough and clearly show TG2's usage.
As animation can be time consuming (err, duh), we should aim at creating and utilising novel techniques for generating fast renders. It might be more practical if entries were of small resolution but accompanied by larger res stills at key (interesting) points to highlight the detail. The winning entry is then re-rendered at a larger res with the job distributed amongst all teams (or those individuals who wish to help out, at least). This isn't really that important anyway, what is, is to get some good techniques and workflows documented.
This challenge is more involved than the previous one, but there are pros on this board that can already pull this stuff off (and a whole host of others who can if pushed / guided, I think) - if they haven't got the time perhaps they could contribute as team advisers or mentors. With careful teaming this can work. What do say, too much or no?
EDIT: cyphyr, you beat me to it. I'm with you. :)
I think Animations scare most people, but I'm with you if you want to do an animation.
The first thing that always comes to my mind when I think of recreating scenes with T2 are shots from the Lord of the Rings. The Great Tree of Lothlorien would be cool.(The way it originally was described by Tolkien would suit T2 much better, but it's the artist's call obviously)
Another one would be the big stone kings guarding the Anduin river(If somebody did that right, it'd look amazing). There is, of course, Mt. Doom, there are the Gates of Mordor, we have Minas Tirith, the village of Rohan, Helm's Deep, Barad-dur(Sauron's Tower). Ents would rather be a challange to recreate, I would think. It goes on indefinitely...oh yeah, you can't forget the Grey Havens, Isengard, Rivendell, or the Lonely Mountain!(and of course, the Shire)
I'm sure people have already tried doing LOTR with Terragen, but I don't recall seeing anything especially noteworthy.
I can think of a few shots from the "Aliens" movies that might be interesting. Some shots from Indiana Jones might be cool(Particularly the Last Crusade, when they go to Petra)
Star Wars offers limitless possibilities...but I think I've already seen this done.
There are more: The Mummy, Deep Impact, the Abyss, Robinson Crusoe on Mars(on older movie), Independence Day, Pearl Harbor, Jurassic Park, Godzilla...
Myriads upon myriads of ideas...
Unfortunately, I don't know if I'll have the time this season. I'm still considering trying something, though.
You do realize they used enormous miniatures (called bigatures because of the size) for all the things you mentioned about LotR...
The Tree, the Towers, the Statues were all real objects. So we would need those to incorporate in our scenes.
Oh yeah, I forgot about the 'bigatures' Tremendous amounts of detail! I dunno, somebody called for ideas, and I did a bit of audible brainstorming. It'd definitely be quite awesome to see some LOTR successfully recreated in T2, though. We'd need a very experienced, time-efficient modeler at hand.
Well I don't know about the two pointy bits at the top but you could use a power fractal or two restricted to that spot with the painted shader and then use either twist and shear shaders or use the same technique as someone employed with function nodes for procedural hurricanes to get the twisty effect. That way it's 100% TG2
This is not meant to be a party poop sort of statement, but I don't think we'll have as much buy-in, if we do an animation contest right now. Yeah sure, it would be fun, but I'd bet creating a still scene to rival what we've all seen in some epic film would be a lot of creativity by itself and rendering an animation would take loads more time and work. Anyway, I'm only interested in a stills contest.
I'd prefer just choosing one scene to keep the contest clear. With one scene (like Helm's Deep's final battle) various points of view can be created and lots of creativity can still produce a number of different scenarios. This brings the focus to the same scenario so voting is clearer, in my observation. What do you think? DandelO?
The idea for doing an animation is a grand one, but I still think we should wait for TG2's animation tools to be completed beforehand.
Since this would be a TG2 contest, I think we should keep the final render in TG2 only. This is a fitting goal, seeing this is a TG2 site. Eh?
Quote from: calico on November 26, 2008, 09:07:33 AM
... I think we should keep the final render in TG2 only...
But TG2 is not meant to be used on its own, no software really is. By allowing other apps we'll all learn something new and important in how to work between softwares and come up with an integrated whole.
I agree that an anim is going to be too time consuming for now although I doubt the anim tool set will change in the near future if at all.
richard
Yeah I'd go with what cypher said here. But there'd have to be a line that we could agree on for post processing and models. There's no point in doing it if the entire render is packed to the gills with 3d objects and lens flare but populations and some well chosen buildings could work very well. Especially as it's to compare with renders from movies and TV.
I agree about learning other apps. Am I being a stickler by saying the render should be done in TG2? This keeps us within the integrity of TG2...doesn't it? Otherwise, would it really be a TG2 contest? Exporting a terrain from TG2 into another app might say more for that app than for TG2.
Or not...? I'm listening.
Well exporting to another app would but importing stuff into TG2 wouldn't. :D
You shouldn't postwork any extra objects/items/stuffs/etc's, I agree that the main render should be TG generated but I think that because TG imports objects then it's a legitimate TG aspect of the scene.
I think postwork should be allowed as far as it was in the last contest, no more than say 30%ish and only to improve already existing elements of the original TG render, I say; If you can get it in there and TG can render it, get it in there and render it. How could we possibly create the battle for Helms Deep without a shitillion objects?
Calico: Sounds good. I'll go with whatever we all agree on, be it a set scene or a choice of options. But you're right, fixed is probably best and it wouldn't lack in variety, not with the amount of imagination that's present in this corner of the net.
I just watched LOTR: Two Towers and Saramon's Tower under attack by the Ents is pretty cool.
I'm all for imported objects into TG2. The renderer in TG2 is superb and, though still in flux, could do a fine job on many possible ideas. I think any amount of postwork should be allowed, unless we can think of specific types of postwork that would defeat the idea of accomplishments within TG2. I'm for whatever it takes to duplicate the movie scene(s).
Let's talk this out and then, if we think we have a consensus on doing this, we could create a poll to vote for one scene for the contest. We'll need a lot of ideas for scenes, though. I'll start here. Oh...and let's make the deadline sometime in January (the 31st?) to allow anyone in school or work to do some work on this during the holidays without taking away family / friends time. What do you think?
Some ideas -
- LOTR - Gandolf's fall into the deep pit
- LOTR - Destruction of Saramon's Tower
- LOTR - Mordor, after the destruction of The Ring
- LOTR - The Final Battle in Return of the Ring
- Multiple Star War's scenes come to mind
- Underground scenes from the novels of Myst
- Multiple scenes from Harry Potter come to mind
Great ideas.
Don't forget island scenes from the Pirates of the Caribbean movies. It seems those were made in Vue.
Hey, I'm open to any and all ideas. I think the battle scene in Return of the King could prove to be too ambitious with all of the possible imports involved. More ideas, the better. Feasible ideas would be better. And then we'll vote.
Anyone out there interested? We have the usual core. Surely, some lurkers might be interested. It's a good opportunity to learn new things and try something you've never tried. No perfect artisans in the bunch. Let's have fun.
How about the Day After Tomorrow. That's got some cool scenes.
Are we trying for an "inspired by" or "copied from" art work? I would think that "copied from" would be considerably harder since the production of decent, relevant models would be difficult to achieve to a reasonable level. There was a thread over at CGTalk about making a model of Minas Tirith, proved very much harder and time consuming than initially expected and a lot of peoples egos got hurt in the process :( Interpersonal politics eh ::)
I would go for "inspired by" but have a codicil that it should be obvious which movie and scene the inspiration came form so although not an exact copy it should retain recognisable elements of the original scene.
richard
@Cyphyr - What if we just choose a location from a great scene from a certain movie - choices could be from locations rather than exact scenes? For example, what if we chose Helm's Deep and then whichever scene we want to emulate we can. Or maybe we could make up our own scene. But, I think the location should resemble the scene from the film. I know this sounds difficult, but I'm persuaded I'll be challenged. That's what I (and perhaps others) need to learn more about TG2 and graphics in general...and we're a pretty friendly group. I don't even think I'll place very high (look at the last contest here), but I'll have a blast with it.
Film locations rather than specific scenes...how does that sound? The possibilities are nearly endless and it could be real fun.
@PG - I agree about that movie. It had loads of cool shots.
Actually some of the locations from LOTR would be great, especially as we have the great BigBen and his ever evolving DEM work to fall back on :) Many of the locations in LOTR are real places in NZ for which we have or can get Digital Elevation Maps (DEM's).
Just found this map (http://img-nex.theonering.net/images/scrapbook/orig/6752_orig.jpg)
I havn't worked with DEM's at all so it would be a good learning curve.
richard
Everyone mentions locations with battle scenes. ;D How about the Shire?
This sounds like a very interesting project. Using real world dem data to mimic LOTR scenes sounds very neat. I might even take part in this if I have the time :)
@freelancah - I'm not sure about DEMs, but enjoy your creativity in any way you can. What I might do is put up a poll with various film locations mentioned in this thread and otherwise to find out which location the majority will want to fit as a general location for our contest.
Does the end of January sound like enough time...or is that too much time? Mid-January...?
mid january sounds like enough time. Should we have a vote on the methods that are allowed too?
It shouldn't matter how a person gets to the final as long as the final (basic) render is accomplished within TG2. Postwork is allowed and I think it should be unmonitored postwork. If something about this idea doesn't make sense, let's talk about it.
I might be out of this one, my psu died so I'm offline till x-mas at least.
Sorry to hear that happened, Will. But, the deadline will by January 15th or, depending on how many mention an interest in extending this date, we could go even to January 30th. That would be plenty of time, wouldn't it? Time to plan, etc...
Here are some links to LOTR based scenic images.
Edoras: http://www.angelfire.com/film/rings/images/edoras.JPG (http://www.angelfire.com/film/rings/images/edoras.JPG) (not very large image :()
from http://groups.msn.com/dvcg2o69vq0acjeeru47naico5/funfacts.msnw (http://groups.msn.com/dvcg2o69vq0acjeeru47naico5/funfacts.msnw)
The following from here: http://antipodalgeca.blogspot.com/ (http://antipodalgeca.blogspot.com/)
South Mavora Lake: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_fHgNxR1TpGI/SRi0-Hnld8I/AAAAAAAAAzs/hQnCXg7KyAo/s1600-h/DSC04416.JPG (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_fHgNxR1TpGI/SRi0-Hnld8I/AAAAAAAAAzs/hQnCXg7KyAo/s1600-h/DSC04416.JPG)
Site of greenDragonTavern near Hobbiton: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_fHgNxR1TpGI/SRinLRq9QAI/AAAAAAAAAxk/MNZcRrAZpzM/s1600-h/DSC02332.JPG (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_fHgNxR1TpGI/SRinLRq9QAI/AAAAAAAAAxk/MNZcRrAZpzM/s1600-h/DSC02332.JPG)
And here are some of the LOTR matte paintings. While they do not represent real locations they are possibly good candidates for the intention of the competition.
http://www.theonering.net/scrapbook/group/897/range/1?q=&tn=12&ts=0 (http://www.theonering.net/scrapbook/group/897/range/1?q=&tn=12&ts=0) 2 pages
these look like the best choices to me:
Emyn Muir 1: http://www.theonering.net/scrapbook/group/897/view/7562?q=&tn=12&ts=0 (http://www.theonering.net/scrapbook/group/897/view/7562?q=&tn=12&ts=0)
Emyn Muir 2: http://www.theonering.net/scrapbook/group/897/view/7566?q=&tn=12&ts=0 (http://www.theonering.net/scrapbook/group/897/view/7566?q=&tn=12&ts=0)
wherever 1: http://www.theonering.net/scrapbook/group/897/view/7564?q=&tn=12&ts=0 (http://www.theonering.net/scrapbook/group/897/view/7564?q=&tn=12&ts=0)
wherever 2: http://www.theonering.net/scrapbook/group/897/view/7574?q=&tn=12&ts=0 (http://www.theonering.net/scrapbook/group/897/view/7574?q=&tn=12&ts=0)
Black Gates: http://www.theonering.net/scrapbook/group/897/view/7571?q=&tn=12&ts=0 (http://www.theonering.net/scrapbook/group/897/view/7571?q=&tn=12&ts=0)
Forbidden Pool: http://www.theonering.net/scrapbook/group/897/view/7573?q=&tn=12&ts=0 (http://www.theonering.net/scrapbook/group/897/view/7573?q=&tn=12&ts=0)
Mordor: http://www.theonering.net/scrapbook/group/897/view/7577?q=&tn=12&ts=0 (http://www.theonering.net/scrapbook/group/897/view/7577?q=&tn=12&ts=0) minus clouds :)
Concept: http://www.theonering.net/scrapbook/group/897/view/7576?q=&tn=12&ts=0 (http://www.theonering.net/scrapbook/group/897/view/7576?q=&tn=12&ts=0)
Thanks neon22. I'll try to include the base locations from what I can gather from these, when I setup the poll.
I plan to include the rules of the contest with the poll, which will go for about seven days.
Inspired by LOTR sounds good. General location or choices of locations needed. I'm in if I can find the time.
The more competitions the better, Lord of the Rings themed will be awesome. Btw, does anyone have any high resolution DEM's of New Zealand? I"m interested in doing some scened from where i live but all the free data i can find is like 100m resolution which is pretty crappy unless you wanna do a scene from space :)
Here are some possibles:
Probably too low for you ?
- has data and instructions on how to use/read/view it from this page: http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/mgg/topo/report/ (http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/mgg/topo/report/) .
This is at 100m http://www.geographx.co.nz/downloads.html (http://www.geographx.co.nz/downloads.html)
You can buy :) specific 90m data here for $9 a map: http://www.cartographic.com/xq/asp/new/zealand/digital/elevation/models/90m/dem:/srtm3/(version2)/rid.192/tid.7/sid.706/cid.7000026/vid.0/oid.0/mode.a/navmode.r//qx/hub/index.asp (http://www.cartographic.com/xq/asp/new/zealand/digital/elevation/models/90m/dem:/srtm3/(version2)/rid.192/tid.7/sid.706/cid.7000026/vid.0/oid.0/mode.a/navmode.r//qx/hub/index.asp)
and here: under Others http://www.viewfinderpanoramas.org/dem3.html#nz (http://www.viewfinderpanoramas.org/dem3.html#nz) 100m with filled voids. similar to geographix above
But I am sure there is more hiding out there :)
To be honest i had hoped of finding 10m resolution DEMs :P But most probably not much chance of that
You can get SRTM3 for free, not sure why anyone would want to buy it as it isn't that much of a pain to download. I use the index available for Google Earth as it's easier to pick out individual data files. http://www.ambiotek.com/srtm (http://www.ambiotek.com/srtm)
I can produce a tiled TER set of NZ at 90m with bathymetry if you want. It does require some artistic addition of additional displacements to make the moutains look really rugged but it's a start. I'll check my existing set and see if I produced one with square terrains. I found fewer problems with standard sized TERs, although this may be irrelevant now.
Thanks, I haven't got any need for them at the moment but I know where to ask when I do ;)
The terrains are almost ready to go. I won't release landsat images at native resolution for all of NZ as that would be too big, but if you ask me nicely I can make some available on request. I'll be working on some supplementary files but if anyone wants them sooner I can post them online.
7 terrains, native SRTM3 resolution + 1 terrain for surrounding bathymetry, also at native resolution (1km)... just makes it to the coast of Australia. Not exactly relevant to this.. more of an added bonus.
I'll do the UK as well for anyone thinking of doing Harry Potter (there are areas I want to do as well)
Or anyone for the Alps at 30m res... The Sound of Music? ;)
Dude!!
THis would be fantastic. I have started converting some - playing with Ruapehu - and its looking great in TG2 :)
I would love to have this.
Maybe we could pick out one or two terrain views used in LOTR and match the scenery :)
Give me a few hours to zip and upload the files.
http://www.bigben.id.au/terragen/files/terrains/nz/ (http://www.bigben.id.au/terragen/files/terrains/nz/)
TER files uploading. TGD to come
OK. Here's the TGD linking all 7 90m terrains with the largest bathymetry terrain. [edit] Fixing up a couple of errors ;) The set is centred on Mt Cook
Just one extra note about the bathymetric data. To compensate for the lack of resolution and resulting shallow water close to the coast, I've set the maximum altitude of the bathymetry data to -5m to guarantee a drop off along the coast. The numbers in the filenames of the TERs are the width of the files in metres.
I'll post some other supplemetary files on my website when I officially release the terrain set. If there are any problems just let me know.
you should get the dem's of where rohan was filmed its round methven on Mt. Potts Station i think
i rember going tramping round their a few years ago
To whoever downloaded the TGD.. possibly lightning ... there are a couple of errors I just found. Fixing them now.
OK. Fixed now. I cut it a little bit close on the east coast of the north island so I may have to update this later, but it's still replaced by a section of low res data.
This is brilliant, Ben. Thanks!
Dude! Thanks so much, i cant wait to have a play over the holidays with these, i'm not really sure where to start with ;D
Thanks guys - an inspiring project. Hope that I will not get caught into other details - again ,-)
In case you're still looking for ideas. The film Legends of the Fall had some epic panoramas of the Rockies. You should be ablet o get some fairly high resolution DEMs for it.
Quote from: bigben on December 05, 2008, 05:10:24 PM
Give me a few hours to zip and upload the files.
http://www.bigben.id.au/terragen/files/terrains/nz/ (http://www.bigben.id.au/terragen/files/terrains/nz/)
TER files uploading. TGD to come
Brilliant - thanks BigBen but I can't seem to get anything out of 90_6 :-( tried a couple of downloads. Can open everything else but not that one
I have attempted opening bb_nz.tgd that Big Ben created for the LOTR competition but I am having trouble handeling it in the free beta version. Has anyone else tried this tgd in the free version of terragen 2 with this file and encountered problems in it locking up the program.
I would have to add that I like the previous post was unable to open the zipped up nz_90_6_368730 file.
Uploaded a new terrain 6 (and tested) and I did have some problems setting the file up but was going to do some more testing before putting in a report. With others reporting problems, it's obviously not just my system. Added a report on a possible problem in Support http://forums.planetside.co.uk/index.php?topic=5353.msg55304#msg55304 (http://forums.planetside.co.uk/index.php?topic=5353.msg55304#msg55304) with the symptoms of what was happening to me.
Yes i also had trouble handling the tgd file, it would just take like 5 minutes to do certain things that should happen instantly.
@SpacemanNZ: Hi there, could you explain what tasks you had on the program when these extended periods of delay where experienced? I have have not been able to get the water function to surround the terrain, and any render locks up the program and the render.
@BigBen: Could you give me a page where I might get the information related to just how you go about setting up these connections between terrans? I read your explanation of the New Zealand terrain group problems and am waiting to see what Jo comes back with, but meanwhile if possible I would like to become more familure with any method needed for handeling these multiple terrains within the tgd menu.
Thanks to all for the information already presented on this subject.