Hi fellow TG2 friends,
I would like to to test drive an idea with with you. In the past, and to this day, the part of Terragen that interested me most has always been clouds and skies in general.
I have spent countless hours designing skies for various specific purposes, and I believe that has given me a certain level of proficiency in this area. In the past few days, the thought woke inside me to pack together subject matter specific atmospheres and skies, together with their recommened lighting, camera and render settings, and sell them for little money through my website.
My first question to you is: what do you think about this?
Then, I thought of (in fact I've already done it), making available the Atmosphere Packs through two different pricings: one for personal use, one for commercial use. My intial thought is that a ready made set of skies for USD 1.99 provides good benefits for personal use, whereas for commercial use, it's more like 20 USD. So my second question is: Does that sound reasonable to you?
I've started the whole thing on my new webpage (http://nwda.webnode.com/terragen-2-tech-packs/), just to give it a shot. I actually have no idea if it's going to work. The first available Atmosphere Pack is a rather special beast. It contains specifically tuned project files to make skies that resemble the old 17th century marine art paintings from the Netherlands (and their artists from that time).
The second pack is already in the works, maybe it takes a few days to complete. This one will be a sunset package with a selection of cloudy and also clean skies, that look much more realistic that the default sky - and I hope, much more interesting, too ;-)
Now, I would also like to mention, that despite making my atmospheres and skies commercially available, I'm not going to stop sharing my knowledge through this forum - in fact I will continue doing that in any case. For now, I would simply like to get a little bit of feedback from you guys about the idea.
Lastly, if someone with a little bit of TG2 experience is interested in testing the packs I'm producing, please contact me through pm.
Thanks;
Frank
Since I've been in the procurement profession since 1956, and retired from it a few years ago, I would say that it might be your best pursuit if you would offer the personal files separately on its own site, while offering the commercial files separately on another site. The commercial site could offer additional technical help; whereas the personal site might not; but only suggesting links to this forum for specific help.
You really need to separate these two ventures to become more successful. The commercial site would garner fees for it's content, whereas the personal site would not. The commercial site would be your primary focus.
Bob
Thanks for your thoughts, Choronr.
I have considered that as well (before I started). I have decided to leave it like that for now. Maybe if I get a notion of the products being in demand, I could split out the commercial bit to a separate site.
I make my living through other things, TG2 is still just a hobby, hence, immediate financial success is not really important. This is also the reason why I let buyers choose if they purchase the commercial or private use license, without any verification on my end if the are being truthful or not.
I simply trust. That's not very business-like, I know that, but everything else, like more control, or maintaining a separate site, would require too much of my precious time for too little benefit - (unless it becomes a VERY profitable business, which is unlikely).
Some of the feedback I'm seeking is whether fully tuned atmospheres and skies are an interesting product in the first place. I have facts on the questions whether the idea can generate prospects. I see many TG2 newbies (private and commercial) express their desire for presets, see them struggle with skies in particular, and I've got answers to that. I'm wondering what value these answers have. I've been making up a pricing and I wonder if it's reasonable.
Thanks,
Frank
Hi Frank,
That sounds like a good idea. You must find some way to earn back your i7 system eh? ;) :P
I think 2 bucks for non-commercial is very cheap, maybe a bit too cheap even. But that also depends on the amount and quality of the content, of course. I'd say, 5 bucks.
Of course I'm in for testing ;) Still have another week off, so ;)
Just let me know. Maybe we could desing a couple together. (I think many people are interested in some very nice cumulus we all saw lately from Luc?)
Martin
This sounds interesting. ;D
Quote from: Tangled-Universe on December 27, 2008, 05:23:48 AM
Hi Frank,
(I think many people are interested in some very nice cumulus we all saw lately from Luc?)
Martin
go for it - I'll buy some
Mick
Thanks for the encouragement!
I'm about to make available another Atmosphere Pack later today: Sunsets
If you would like to read the pre announcement and see a few teaser images: http://nwda.webnode.com/news/pre-announcement-sunset-atmopshere-pack/
I'm pretty proud of the Sunset Pack. I have been able to make great skies with these configurations in the past, and while working on a distributable version, I have improved them even further. This time, with the Sunset Pack, user will have a more general purpose package, compared to the rather specific 17th Century Marine Art Pack. I'm already anxious to see the images made using the Sunset Pack configurations.
Enough for now, I'll let you know once the pack is available through the shop.
Cheers,
Frank
The "Sunset Atmosphere Pack" is now available: http://nwda.webnode.com/terragen-2-tech-packs/
This pack is bigger, contains more contents that the previous pack.
After the first transactions, I saw paypal eating a substantial commission that I haven't calculated with before. Also, living in the Euro zone, I had to redo calculations and adjust the private use prices. No worries, they're still in the range of the cost of a Latte at Starbucks in the US ;-)
1 - 17th Century Marine Art = 2.49 USD
2 - Sunset Pack = 3.49 USD
I hope that's still reasonable for you guys. I would like to hear if you see that as problematic.
Thanks,
Frank
Wow; later today, I'm going to be buying these ...outstanding work Frank!
Quote from: calico on December 27, 2008, 08:07:44 AM
This sounds interesting. ;D
Quote from: Tangled-Universe on December 27, 2008, 05:23:48 AM
Hi Frank,
(I think many people are interested in some very nice cumulus we all saw lately from Luc?)
Martin
Does this come close to Luc's cumulonimbus(es)?
[attach=#]
It's getting there. Try increasing edge sharpness more perhaps.
Quote from: old_blaggard on December 28, 2008, 03:17:10 PM
It's getting there. Try increasing edge sharpness more perhaps.
This could be a philosophy . I would decrease it ,-)
I'd increase feature size (or smallest size?) together with contrast to get rid of those visible, perlin scars (detail is nice but it looks too repeatable).
Optimizing it from here is a pretty tough job. I will need more time.
I can tell you already that increasing the contrast in the fractal is counter productive at this point.
However, I am determined to get it done. Bear with me.
Frank
It looks pretty freaking awesome, Frank.
Enjoy your holiday. ;D
Quote from: FrankB on December 29, 2008, 06:21:47 AM
Optimizing it from here is a pretty tough job. I will need more time.
I can tell you already that increasing the contrast in the fractal is counter productive at this point.
However, I am determined to get it done. Bear with me.
Frank
A question for you Frank, re the licenses for your packs, which I am strongly tempted to purchase. I'm posting it here in case it's relevant to anyone else.
I work for a charity, and I also dabble in TG2. It may be that at some future date, the charity might want to use an image I've generated via TG2. The image might be used in advertising or promotional materials, but would in no case be charged for. That image might hypothetically include something from your Atmosphere or Sunset Packs. Which license would you advise me to purchase?
Thanks,
Dominic
Well in this case, you are fine with the private use license. If your charity organisation wants to use one of your images in print, and you're not getting any money from it, I can hardly be regard this as a commercial act.
Let me clarify at this point, that the commercial option really is meant for companies (no matter the company size) with a commercial purpose for the images created from the packs.
Does that help clarify?
Thanks for the good question.
Frank
Quote from: domdib on December 29, 2008, 11:27:46 AM
A question for you Frank, re the licenses for your packs, which I am strongly tempted to purchase. I'm posting it here in case it's relevant to anyone else.
I work for a charity, and I also dabble in TG2. It may be that at some future date, the charity might want to use an image I've generated via TG2. The image might be used in advertising or promotional materials, but would in no case be charged for. That image might hypothetically include something from your Atmosphere or Sunset Packs. Which license would you advise me to purchase?
Thanks,
Dominic
Thanks Frank, perfectly clear. I just bought both of them ;)
Quote from: domdib on December 29, 2008, 12:32:18 PM
Thanks Frank, perfectly clear. I just bought both of them ;)
Thank you very much - have plenty of fun with them :-)
Frank
The idea of these packs is a good one and the sample images look spot on. I think I am fairly proficient at tg2 clouds and would prefer to develop solutions in my own style rather than use someone else's work. Please don't think that by saying tat I am being cheap, I seldom download and use other peoples clip files so probably wouldn't download your packs even if they were free. I find I learn more working from the ground up even if I am re-inventing the wheel.
That said good luck with selling your work, it looks excellent and is certainly good value at the prices you are asking. I can certainly see a market for high quality preserts for terragen. A lot of us here and on other forums have two years experience but I doubt than many people new to the product would be prepared to put in that much time learning the finer points if they know they can buy quality presets that will give them professional quality results right away.
While it is probably not for me I will keep an eye on your progress and wish you the best of luck.
Very cool stuff Frank. I think these are worth the few dollars just to learn some alternate techniques.
-ryan
Agree with RAcher. These files are not only an asset to the program; but also excellent learning tools to help some of us without the technical savvy to understand all the intricacies of the program. Yes, being a purist is a good thing; however, is it suggested that maybe we should write our own terrain generating program? I don't think so.
I late in ordering the files but will soon do so and sneak the buy by my penny pinching partner.
Thanks again, reading this is very encouraging for me. And it's true - Terragen 2 has become a very complex application, compared to Terragen 0.9, which has attracted countless hobby artists. In my opinion, a big part of TG0.9's success has been the simplicity of use. Most of the maths that worked behind the scenes have been hidden from the user. Still it was complicated enough to have a considerable learning curve. Just look at all the tutorials that are everywhere around the web!
Now, in order to make TG2 more accessible not only to beginners, but also to less maths savvy individuals, I really believe that the "presets" that I make can provide good value to the aforementioned group of people. Some will study and learn the presets, and eventually make their own skies, terrains, function etc.., while others will be content assembling nice images using various pre-configured aspects of TG2. All of that is a viable approach for art.
I am looking forward to the day when TG2(3) has a facility to create macros of some sort, so that e.g. a given set of cloud layers can be packages into just one node with just one custom dialog, so that these presets become very easy to use. I will be the first one to create some of those custom macros :-)
Best regards,
Frank
I'd just like to agree with Mr_Lampost and Frank, that there is indeed a target market for these. I have come relatively late to TG2 (am still saving up for the license), and have neither the time nor the computing resources to explore the program as deeply as I'd like - but I still aspire to make images approaching the quality of those that appear regularly on this forum. So packs like these at a reasonable price hit the sweet spot for me.
I would guess once TG2 comes out of beta there may be a growing audience like me. The question for Frank and others who could contribute such packs is, how to give them sufficient visibility, as this is just an ordinary thread, not 'stickied', and the more part-time users might not be inclined to trawl the forums for gems? Would Planetside consider allowing Frank and other members of the community in good standing ( I stress that in the light of the recent incident with Floraworks) to engage in some kind of limited advertising, either via the web site or the forums? Just a thought.
Hi Frank,
I just purchased one of your 'Sunset' files and tried making a clip file of the 'Winter cold sunset - cirrus' clouds and applying them to a scene I am working on. After attempting to work with trying different node connections (using my own and/or your atmosphere), I just continue to get a 'black' sky. I think what I will do is study all of your node settings and see if I can replicate the same granular cirrus clouds in my scene. These are the best cirrus clouds I have seen.
Bob
Hi Bob,
I would be glad to help troubleshoot the problem. However, I'm on a trip at the moment and will return tomorrow evening. If in the meantime you'd send me the project that has the described issue, I'll have a look immediately upon my return.
Thanks,
Frank
Quote from: choronr on December 31, 2008, 02:04:26 AM
Hi Frank,
I just purchased one of your 'Sunset' files and tried making a clip file of the 'Winter cold sunset - cirrus' clouds and applying them to a scene I am working on. After attempting to work with trying different node connections (using my own and/or your atmosphere), I just continue to get a 'black' sky. I think what I will do is study all of your node settings and see if I can replicate the same granular cirrus clouds in my scene. These are the best cirrus clouds I have seen.
Bob
domdib, I've added a page for the atmosphere and sunset packs to my website (http://plugsandpixels.com/newworldtgpacks.html) in the hopes of giving Frank's work (as well as Terragen) more exposure. I will also include a page in my next ezine for the packs.
If anyone else has similar productivity or educational products (for TG or other 2D/3D digital imaging apps), please let me know. I don't charge for the exposure.
Quote from: choronr on December 31, 2008, 02:04:26 AM
Hi Frank,
I just purchased one of your 'Sunset' files and tried making a clip file of the 'Winter cold sunset - cirrus' clouds and applying them to a scene I am working on. After attempting to work with trying different node connections (using my own and/or your atmosphere), I just continue to get a 'black' sky. I think what I will do is study all of your node settings and see if I can replicate the same granular cirrus clouds in my scene. These are the best cirrus clouds I have seen.
Bob
Bob, I have fixed your tgd. You forgot to include a blendshader with your custom scene, but "blend by shader" was still selected in the cloud's density fractal. Hope that helps.
Cheers,
Frank
Thanks Frank; I'll work further with with the file you adjusted; appreciate it very much. Hopefully I'll have a rendered image in a few days.
Bob
Thanks to plugsnpixels. Let's hope that there are other sites out there that can publicise these and other packs, and TG2.
Any news on your cumulus Frank? ;)
Martin
I'm getting there ;-)
This is pretty difficult stuff. I'm trying to make them really great before I release them.
I can tell you already that the cumulonimbus will be easy to use "as is", but not be exactly easy to modify. Just a few tweaks here and there and you may ruin the looks. I'll also have to write up instructions on how to use the nodes in the network, which parameters better not to touch etc.
I'm hoping I can release it later on sunday, but don't take my word for it.
Cheers,
Frank
just a small update: chances are that I shall be able to make available the "Cumulus Atmosphere Pack" later tomorrow.
The pack will contain Cumulonimbus (close up), Cumulonimbus (distance shot), Cumulus humilis and a variation of Cumulus Congestus.
I'll post a teaser later today.
Cheers,
Fank
Waiting with anticipation. These have been difficult beauties to create well.
Quote from: FrankB on January 03, 2009, 09:45:04 AM
just a small update: chances are that I shall be able to make available the "Cumulus Atmosphere Pack" later tomorrow.
The pack will contain Cumulonimbus (close up), Cumulonimbus (distance shot), Cumulus humilis and a variation of Cumulus Congestus.
I'll post a teaser later today.
Cheers,
Fank
Yes, waiting with great anticipation as well. Sharing such information is a blessing to those of us who muddle through such things for many hours and most of the time get nowhere ...thank you for thinking of us.