So I posted a while ago asking about best options to consider when speccing up a new box to run Terragen on (my current PC is just too damn slow to render images) and there was a lot of discussion about CPU and cores.
If I remember rightly going with a good fast dual or quad core (the best I could afford) seemed to be the recommendation. It was a bit before Intel released their new generation of CPU.
So am back to seriously looking at buying a decent box to run Terragen on - whats the best CPU option out there in the market. Note I cannot afford the very fastest shiniest - so look at the top of the mid range and the bottom/mid of the top range as your considerations.
Also note I am in NZ so pricing is lots different to the US. Im not fussy about AMD or Intel, either is good.
And if I cant get XP 64bit - how are people finding Vista 64bit to run Terragen on?
Im running Vista 64 on a Intel i7 quad core CPU with 6gb of ram, runs very nice and fast with renders, not sure what the pricing is for them in NZ, they are still new chips so probably expensive but worth every penny :)
I am very happy with my Intel Quad 6600.
You can see at Amazone.com what people said from that now 'cheap' CPU.
An i7 would be ideal, but as stated, this would also be the highest cost. Seeing as i7 requires newer motherboards, ram, etc, that are all higher priced currently as most of it is brand new to the market.
Otherwise a Core2 Quad would be great, they are quire decently priced, they can use a mass range of motherboards, ram for them is generally some of the cheapest, etc.
Benchmark site mentioned here (http://forums.planetside.co.uk/index.php?topic=5777.0)has everything you need :)
Richard
Core i7 rules the roost, no question. AMD's are cheaper, but not as fast. Same with older Intel Core 2 Quad CPU's - cheaper but slower. Core i7 if you can afford it.
- Oshyan
I have sent of a request for an i7 and a Q9xxx quote to compare pricing.
Next question, if I get 64bit OS - how much memory should I aim for - 4GB 8GB 12GB?
64 bit can handle as much memory as you can throw at it. It really depends on the kind of work you'll be doing. For TG2, until it is updated to be natively 64 bit, it will only take up to 4GB of memory. But of course you will also have other things taking up memory, like the OS, antivirus program, etc. so I would say even if TG2 is your main resource-intensive program, 6GB would be a good starting point. RAM is relatively inexpensive, even DDR3, so it makes sense to stock up. 8GB would probably be a good target, especially if you'll be running multiple apps at once, or other apps that are demanding on computer resources (particularly if they're native 64 bit!).
So short answer: get at least 6, 8 even better. 12 might be more than you need, but you may use it eventually when TG2 goes 64 bit. ;)
- Oshyan
Quote from: Oshyan on April 06, 2009, 11:47:24 PM
For TG2, until it is updated to be natively 64 bit, it will only take up to 4GB of memory
Didn't you mean 2 GB RAM? I think there's the end of a 32bit application?
In fact there is an upper memory address space limit in 64 Bit Address Space of approximately 16 exabytes of RAM or put it another way that's 17.2 billion gigabytes or 16.8 million terabytes of RAM but I don't see home computers reaching that ceiling any time soon!
Regards to you
Cyber-Angel ;D
Quote from: BangelOz on April 07, 2009, 12:22:05 AM
Quote from: Oshyan on April 06, 2009, 11:47:24 PM
For TG2, until it is updated to be natively 64 bit, it will only take up to 4GB of memory
Didn't you mean 2 GB RAM? I think there's the end of a 32bit application?
Nope, 4GB. That's the limit of a 32 bit address space itself. In 32 bit versions of Windows only 2GB per application is allowed because the OS itself can only address up to a maximum of 4GB, much of which it reserves for other purposes. However a 32 bit application can in fact address up to 4GB of RAM and so in a 64 bit OS it is allowed to do so since the OS has much more to work with.
- Oshyan
just keep in mind, that when aiming for an i7 - you get optimal performance with discreet amount of RAM. I am not a hardware guy, but I think it was because of tripple buffer. So 6GB is good and I think 12GB was good and 3GB (which makes no sense for a 64bitOS). But its better to ask a tech person ;-)
If you want to go budget-wise, consider yourself Q6600 but make sure it's a 45 nm version (Penryn) or at last an old 65 nm with G0 revision.
Don't get fooled with it's 2400 MHz clock as it can be easily overclocked to 3200 MHz.
How does the i7 compare to a dual processor Quad core machine? There's a couple at the office and they are extremely fast with Terragen. A GI pass of the same scene on my machine was taking about 40mins on full cowbell (Quad core @3ghz 32bit 4gigs ram), on the dual Quad core at work (2xQuad core xeon @2.66ghz 8gigs ram 64bit), the GI pas took about 5mins. Now I know I had changed some of the quality settings and didn't take notes at the time, but they weren't that much different. I think a scientific experiment is in order with the benchmark scene. It would be good to compare that with an i7.
I'm in two minds about upgrading at the moment as I'm tempted to wait for the i7 Xeons to come out.
Generally speaking TG2 does not scale well beyond 4 threads/cores, so it's a bit surprising a dual quad core with a lower clock speed would actually perform better than a faster single quad. I would verify that with *identical* settings. In theory the dual quad core should be faster of course - twice as many cores, even though they're slightly slower each. But taking full advantage of that will have to wait for further optimization in TG2, meaning right now a single quad is generally faster.
- Oshyan
Thanks everyone for the useful advice and info. Im looking at an i7 920 solution, but its quite a bit more expensive than I expected. On pricing the individual components its coming out at $1500 just for the mobo, CPU and Memory - no case or anything else.
I am looking at seeing if I can source the parts cheaper and maybe building with help from a friend. Might have to wait and see if I get any bonus in my next pay packet :)
I am currently in the process of putting together an i7 920 machine as well, and for those three components that is insanely high. I just purchased i7 920, asus p6t deluxe v2, evga 260 gtx, corsair 6gb dominator mem for 1000. These are way high end components, so I could see you getting mobo, cpu, mem for about $600 if you wanted, or even less if you went for a cheaper motherboard and memory.
Quote from: Oshyan on April 06, 2009, 11:47:24 PM
64 bit can handle as much memory as you can throw at it. It really depends on the kind of work you'll be doing. For TG2, until it is updated to be natively 64 bit, it will only take up to 4GB of memory.
- Oshyan
Is there a target date set for a native 64 bit TG2?
Thanks.
--
Brian
Quote from: commorancy on April 09, 2009, 12:07:40 PM
Is there a target date set for a native 64 bit TG2?
you must be kidding ;D
Quote from: FrankB on April 09, 2009, 05:11:05 PM
Quote from: commorancy on April 09, 2009, 12:07:40 PM
Is there a target date set for a native 64 bit TG2?
you must be kidding ;D
No, he isn't, this is my new second alias here Frank :p ;D ;)
Quote from: kaisersuzuki on April 09, 2009, 11:59:49 AM
I am currently in the process of putting together an i7 920 machine as well, and for those three components that is insanely high. I just purchased i7 920, asus p6t deluxe v2, evga 260 gtx, corsair 6gb dominator mem for 1000. These are way high end components, so I could see you getting mobo, cpu, mem for about $600 if you wanted, or even less if you went for a cheaper motherboard and memory.
Yes it is high, but i was quoting NZD not USD so there is a difference - seeing as im not in the US
Ahh there you go. Sorry about being US-centric!
Hi Brian,
Quote from: commorancy on April 09, 2009, 12:07:40 PM
Is there a target date set for a native 64 bit TG2?
We don't have a target date but it is definitely a priority. I'm going to be starting on it as soon as we've tidied up issues with the final release.
Regards,
Jo
I'm also saving money for an i7 system. Had a very cool system composed in an online store:
i7 920
Asus P6T
OCZ DDR3-1600 8GB
2 x OCZ SSD 30GB in RAID 0 :)
XFX GT260 Black Edition 896MB
DVD-r drive
Floppy drive (RAID drivers etc.)
OCZ 640W PSU (those new games look awesome, so I might plug an extra GT260 some day....)
Antec 182 Case (a friend of mine has this one and it has a good airflow and very good sound-isolation)
+ cables and other sorts of small stuff...
Costs: too much! (~1300 euros)
I could always replace the 2 SSD's with a normal HDD, but those SSD's are just so awesome :)
In the meantime I'm overclocking my Q6600.
It ran @ 2.4 GHz normally but now I have it @ 3.2 GHz and probably will keep it like that.
Still have to do some extra stability-testing though.
Quote from: jo on April 09, 2009, 10:47:29 PM
Hi Brian,
Quote from: commorancy on April 09, 2009, 12:07:40 PM
Is there a target date set for a native 64 bit TG2?
We don't have a target date but it is definitely a priority. I'm going to be starting on it as soon as we've tidied up issues with the final release.
Regards,
Jo
Good to hear Jo!
First of all, I don't want to squeeze any estimations out of you, but how long does a process of "converting" an app from 32-bit to 64-bit take?
Maybe better said: what's involved?
I understand the code has to be adapted etc., but since I'm not familiar with that at all I was just wondering what's involved in this process.
Does this mean complete re-writing, partially, adding stuff etc. etc.
Thanks for your time in advance.
Martin
For anyone who's having a Q6600 @ 2.4 GHz like me:
They are really easy to overclock, sometimes even with a stock-cooler and stock-voltages.
I have overclocked mine the day before yesterday from 2.4 to 3.2 GHz.
Here's how I did it in a short explanation:
I set the RAM-frequency to 533 MHz. --> RAM:FSB:CPU = 2:1:9
Then I increased the FSB from 266 to 356
356 x 9 = 3.2 GHz
356 x 2 = 712 MHz RAM-frequency --> this goes automatically (DDR2-800 can go up too 800 MHz, so that's fine)
Increased the voltage of my DDR2-800 DRAM from 1.8 to 2.2 (quite much, but 2.15 gave BSOD's)
Increased the voltage of my CPU from 1.18 to 1.35. The vdroop became bigger so lowering to 1.3 volt also gave BSOD's.
I PERFORMED ALL THESE ADJUSTMENTS IN LITTLE STEPS! ALSO: THESE SETTINGS DO NOT APPLY TO EACH CPU/SYSTEM!!
I ran this configuration for 14 hours using prime95. This is very stressful and my CPU did just fine.
The temperature went up to 57 degrees max.
when TG2 is rendering at 99% CPU the temp is around 53 degrees, so somehow this is less stressful.
Works like a charm and my TG2-benchmark went from 21:06 to 16:02, that's a decrease in 24,0% :)
Or you can say "when I don't overclock the rendertime increases with 31,6%" which is even more impressive haha :D
Martin
Quote from: Tangled-Universe on April 12, 2009, 07:18:51 AM
For anyone who's having a Q6600 @ 2.4 GHz like me:
They are really easy to overclock, sometimes even with a stock-cooler and stock-voltages.
I have overclocked mine the day before yesterday from 2.4 to 3.2 GHz.
The problem I seem to have with overclocking isn't the motherboard or the CPU. These seem to do just fine. I usually run into problems with the video card or other peripherals that just don't seem to like the overclocked speed. I tried this on another machine a while back. Granted, it wasn't even a dual core, but I had to throttle it back because the video drivers became unstable and crashed far too frequently while overclocked. I might try it again with my Q6600, but I seem to have enough issues with my machine in a stock config.
Thanks for your info, though.
--
Brian
You're welcome.
I was advised to fix the PCI-express frequency to 100MHz. This will not be affected by the CPU-overclock and should ensure more stability.
If you have the money get the new mac pro as it has 8 cores, and then boot camp it to run windows 7