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General => Image Sharing => Topic started by: FrankB on April 15, 2009, 09:13:56 AM

Title: The Landing *V4* and Final
Post by: FrankB on April 15, 2009, 09:13:56 AM
Hi guys,

I've been playing around with a few technical aspects of TG2, and out of that came the following image.
Rendered in 3000x1714 pixel, in 3 hours. This is a downsized version, of course. Unfortunately even the downsized version was heavy on the jpeg algorithm, so I had to reduce quality a lot.

Appreciate your comments.

Thanks,
Frank
Title: Re: The Landing
Post by: FrankB on April 15, 2009, 09:14:47 AM
and here is a crop from the original size.

Title: Re: The Landing
Post by: RArcher on April 15, 2009, 09:26:33 AM
Frank,  the foreground is simply amazing, you really packed a lot of great detail in there.  My eyes are having issues with the rest of the image though.  The scale (though I am sure it is technically correct) seems to be totally off.  I think the problem for me is that it is not immediately apparent that your camera is up on a hillside and it is difficult to distinguish where the crest of the hillside is.  One solution may be to slightly darken the areas below the ridge so that it gives enough of a contrast that my eyes don't become lost.  I hope that makes sense.
Title: Re: The Landing
Post by: FrankB on April 15, 2009, 09:37:00 AM
Thanks Ryan :-)
I am having the same problem that you described. I should probably choose a different POV.

Regards,
Frank
Title: Re: The Landing
Post by: Hetzen on April 15, 2009, 10:11:25 AM
The stone scree is absolutely amazing, and I like the population of grass tufts sticking out.

I've shown this to a couple of the lads in the office, and we all agree that the island arridness looks wrong, fine by the beach, but we reackon you'd have an island covered in vegitation, be it a lot more grass or tropical forrest. Also thought the green shore translucency should be more of an aqua colour in this environment.
Title: Re: The Landing
Post by: rcallicotte on April 15, 2009, 10:22:58 AM
Picture-book setting, but the tufts of grass (though a cool idea) aren't working for me - there's a repeatable pattern that is clearly CG.  Otherwise, I like this.  The rocks on the hill are well setup and the lighting is very good.  I like the ship in the water.
Title: Re: The Landing
Post by: domdib on April 15, 2009, 10:30:58 AM
The stone scree, as others have said, is impressive. Also like others, I have a slight problem with the grass - it seems like it either should be denser or even more sparse, but given the trees near the shore, I'd say go with denser.
Title: Re: The Landing
Post by: Mohawk20 on April 15, 2009, 11:12:12 AM
I don't like the sparse foliage, way to barren for my taste. But other than that great image, lots of detail.
Title: Re: The Landing
Post by: neuspadrin on April 15, 2009, 11:18:21 AM
It would be cool if the vegetation perhaps was in patches instead of randomly yet perfectly distanced from one another.

also something just seems to get lost between the foreground and the background making the scales seem different.

maybe moving the view closer to the edge of the hill i'm assuming we are on? or perhaps make a change of ground cover between the hill close foreground and the foreground around the forest.
Title: Re: The Landing
Post by: schmeerlap on April 15, 2009, 12:13:11 PM
I think this is a great scene, and it has the potential to be even better. I don't have such a problem with the barrenness. Scale issues may be aided by having some nearby bushes to look over. A couple of other suggestions to futher enhance the scene might be to have some darker (wet) sand at the water's edge, and reduce your wave size in the sea. I like this pov.

John

(So, no need for me to respond to the gender thread)
Title: Re: The Landing
Post by: FrankB on April 15, 2009, 12:30:49 PM
Ok, so here's another attempt. How do you like that?

A little render info: 1.5 hrs, 2000x~1400 or so, GI 1/2 + SS, Fake Stone Pack (extended), 5 plant species, flock of birds from ashundar, free ship somewhere from the web (didn't come with a credits file).

The technical bit I have started this image with was to have the layer of sand cover the small pebbles, and gradually leave out the larger stones. After that, a real render scene started to form in my mind, and I started adding things to the image.
The scene is roughly based on the island of Fuerteventura, which is part of the Canary Islands. Great place for beach holiday. The landscape is totally barren, just rocks and sand, but it has its own fascinating beauty, and the climate is perfect all year.

Thanks,
Frank
Title: Re: The Landing *V2*
Post by: neuspadrin on April 15, 2009, 01:08:03 PM
looking good, one small little thing,

id like it a bit more if the boat was rotated just a bit more to show a little more of its side.
Title: Re: The Landing
Post by: Seikojin on April 15, 2009, 01:56:18 PM
Quote from: FrankB on April 15, 2009, 12:30:49 PM
Ok, so here's another attempt. How do you like that?

A little render info: 1.5 hrs, 2000x~1400 or so, GI 1/2 + SS, Fake Stone Pack (extended), 5 plant species, flock of birds from ashundar, free ship somewhere from the web (didn't come with a credits file).

The technical bit I have started this image with was to have the layer of sand cover the small pebbles, and gradually leave out the larger stones. After that, a real render scene started to form in my mind, and I started adding things to the image.
The scene is roughly based on the island of Fuerteventura, which is part of the Canary Islands. Great place for beach holiday. The landscape is totally barren, just rocks and sand, but it has its own fascinating beauty, and the climate is perfect all year.

Thanks,
Frank

The thing that is getting to me is the scale to distance for the trees.  At the bottom of the image the terrain slopes into the forested bit.  And the perception I am seeing is that we are close to the edge of the forest patch.  If this is true, then the trees should be much bigger.  It almost looks like you've scaled the closest trees size down to make the patch of trees all the same size no matter the depth in the picture.

I hope that makes sense.
Title: Re: The Landing *V2*
Post by: cyphyr on April 15, 2009, 03:27:50 PM
Looking good, I agree with the other posters comments. Nothing to add other than, has your palm population (I think its the palms) got its max and min rotations values set at default.
Theres a repeat angle, top left to bottom right thats distracting from an otherwise great image. Hope that helps

richard
Title: Re: The Landing *V2*
Post by: FrankB on April 15, 2009, 03:42:14 PM
thank you for the comments and good advice.

The trees and the sizes.. they work for me, but maybe because I have been moving around the scene with the camera, and know that everything is at the right scale - at least roughly. However, I understand why you all think that something appears wrong here. I think the downhill view is the main problem here.
Maybe I should remove the tree populations completely, and resort to bushes and shrubs instead, and give the land formation and the beach more focus. By doing so I may also choose yet another viewpoint, that is not so much downhill, to help with a better impression of depth... I shall see what can be done here :-)

One more iteration, and then I'll take a (non-voluntary) break from TG2 for a little more than week.
... I'll be back ;D

Frank
Title: Re: The Landing *V2*
Post by: Tangled-Universe on April 15, 2009, 03:43:08 PM
Hi Frank,

Compared to the first one I think the second has better scales etc. It's more obvious to the eye now how the depth in this image is being built up.
However, to emphasize this I think you could change the lighting a bit. Although the *lack of* shadows (I just call it like this just the easy way) is very realistic and natural I think it makes the image appear a bit "flat". I don't really know how to put it in words, sorry.
The depth added by the water (nice settings!) is very good. Nice boat also, like those small details which are not too present.
The fake stones are really cool and the sand looks good. In the background it seems like there are sandpatches being "lifted" compared to the fake stones. So, I guess you used intersect underlying for the sand-layer? Or is it just fractal detail from the terrain?

Martin
Title: Re: The Landing *V2*
Post by: Mohawk20 on April 15, 2009, 05:05:05 PM
Just curious, but what is the reason the island is so bare? What are the meteorological/biological reasons?
And why do the palm trees grow so dense together? Should there be a bit more undergrowth in the 'forest'?

It seems to me the palm trees are just sticking out of the sand, while I remember that an oasis or beach with palms always had grass and small plants around the trees (definitely grass at least).

Just making sure everything is right (if you're going for realism that is)...
Title: Re: The Landing *V2*
Post by: FrankB on April 15, 2009, 05:20:59 PM
Martin: it's difficult to get any shadows support the impression of depth in this frontal light, in combination with the slopes leaning away. My thought was that the tree objects could help with that, but apparently that's not sufficient either :-)
I am not quite sure which parts seem lifted that have referred to, but I think it's a combination of strata layers and the slope constraint sand that could create such an impression.

Mohawk: You are right with the density of trees. There are places (parks) where the palms grow very dense, but they are artificially watered places. Unless there's a sweet water well somewere further up, and a little "river" would be flowing into the sea, the palms should not be so dense. Lastly, I don't know the reason why the canary islands, especially Fuerteventura, are so dry.

Frank
Title: Re: The Landing *V2*
Post by: Mohawk20 on April 16, 2009, 03:25:38 AM
Quote from: FrankB on April 15, 2009, 05:20:59 PM
I don't know the reason why the canary islands, especially Fuerteventura, are so dry.

Frank

Ah, that could either be due to the volcanic origin of the island (though volcanic ground is usually very fertile) in combination with the lack of fresh water, or because of the close proximity to the Sahara and the high temperatures (15 deg. C in winter to 30 deg. C in summer).
That would at least explain all the sand on your island, blown there from the desert.

Do you have any reference images of Fuerteventura that you use?
Title: Re: The Landing *V2*
Post by: FrankB on April 16, 2009, 04:19:59 AM
Quote from: Mohawk20 on April 16, 2009, 03:25:38 AM
Do you have any reference images of Fuerteventura that you use?


no, I'm not using one. I have been there many times, though. So it's in my head. :-)

Frank
Title: Re: The Landing *V2*
Post by: Mohawk20 on April 16, 2009, 06:35:27 AM
Ah, should be good enough... :D
Title: Re: The Landing *V2*
Post by: Hetzen on April 16, 2009, 07:52:05 AM
I like the new POV, and the water looks better ;)

I don't realy have the scale issue others are expressing. The scree looks incredibly realistic.

I had a look for some images of the island, and you're right, there's not a lot growing there. The only thing I can add, is some variation in the sand/dust/dirt colours...

http://home.iae.nl/users/termaten/images/lanzarote/fuerteventura.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/99/Fuerteventura_kueste2_750px.jpg

http://simflight.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/simgiants-fuerteventura.jpg

http://www.canaryventura.com/myPictures/fuerteventura+029.jpg
Title: Re: The Landing *V2*
Post by: rcallicotte on April 16, 2009, 08:54:55 AM
Much better, Frank.
Title: Re: The Landing *V2*
Post by: FrankB on April 25, 2009, 01:19:16 PM
Hi guys,

So this is version 3 and it has changed a lot. Actually this has been rendered already a week ago, but I couldn't upload it when I left.
I'm still not 100% satisfied with a few details, but I thought I'd share anyway to say I'm back again from my week long TG2 absence.

Cheers,
Frank
Title: Re: The Landing *V3*
Post by: Seth on April 25, 2009, 01:27:16 PM
love your fake stones !!!
the left part is really amazing.
good job
Title: Re: The Landing *V3*
Post by: Kevin F on April 25, 2009, 01:29:46 PM
A few grass tufts are growing out of the stones and I'm not that keen on the over bright horizon area. Otherwise! a wonderful render.
Title: Re: The Landing *V3*
Post by: Naoo on April 25, 2009, 03:02:12 PM
Hi

Excellent! Echt klasse Frank!


ciao
Naoo
Title: Re: The Landing *V3*
Post by: Mohawk20 on April 25, 2009, 03:19:05 PM
Very very nice!!
Great POV, and I like the distance of the ship. This fits together so much better!
Title: Re: The Landing *V3*
Post by: schmeerlap on April 25, 2009, 03:40:31 PM
Yeh, I like this latest one (just needs a polarizing or gradient filter on that lens to bring out the clouds on that overexposed sky).

John
Title: Re: The Landing *V3*
Post by: Hetzen on April 25, 2009, 04:41:34 PM
Really nice composition. Just need a load of kelp on the shore line, limpets and muscles on the rocks, and.....just kidding. Great work.
Title: Re: The Landing *V3*
Post by: arisdemos on April 25, 2009, 07:26:52 PM
Wow that is one beautiful seaside simulation. I can't really think how you could make it any better. I think this is your best Tg2 image that I have looked at.
Title: Re: The Landing *V3*
Post by: rcallicotte on April 26, 2009, 07:59:32 AM
Fantastic, Frank.  Have you considered using Photoshop (or Paint.NET or whatever) to touch up the right side whiteout?  Just touching that up would give one of the best renders in TG2's history a place among the classics, in my limited opinion.  This was beautifully done.
Title: Re: The Landing *V3*
Post by: RArcher on April 26, 2009, 12:53:40 PM
HI Frank,

Absolutely stunning.  I will disagree with the rest here and say that I really like the blown out light on the right, but then again from some of my images you might have guessed that I would like it. Your control of the fake stones is very impressive.
Title: Re: The Landing *V3*
Post by: FrankB on April 26, 2009, 01:14:00 PM
Thank you all :)

I'm not surprised that the over bright horizon is an aspect that not everyone likes. Like Ryan, I think it adds to realism a lot, but then, tastes are different :)
I still plan to make another iteration of this render. I find that the yellowish plants are too big and the grasses are also to tall. Lastly, there are a few areas in the background that I plan to improve. But thank you for the encouragement.

Regards,
Frank
Title: Re: The Landing *V3*
Post by: FrankB on April 26, 2009, 07:41:54 PM
ok, so here is the last version. Gotta move on to something else that is forming in my head.

Regards,
Frank

Title: Re: The Landing *V4* and Final
Post by: Mahnmut on April 26, 2009, 08:18:56 PM
That´s quite some change from your first version to this one,
I alread liked the first but I love this one, it´s realitic and so beautiful!
A place one would like to be at.
Best regards,
Jan
Title: Re: The Landing *V4* and Final
Post by: choronr on April 26, 2009, 09:19:40 PM
Frank, this is the best one of the works. Being down low gives the vegetation an opportunity to show off it's details; and, we have here a well balanced scene ...beautiful!
Title: Re: The Landing *V4* and Final
Post by: Phylloxera on April 27, 2009, 02:27:29 PM
Good work !
Title: Re: The Landing *V4* and Final
Post by: ra on April 27, 2009, 03:08:35 PM
Very cinematic! Well done!  :o
Title: Re: The Landing *V4* and Final
Post by: Tangled-Universe on April 27, 2009, 03:40:09 PM
Hi Frank,

Looking good! The stones, water (scales and roughness) and lighting are pretty sweet. The overcast on the right brings warmth to the image, I like that.
Your choice of models is good, however the lighting on the models (still not the easiest thing in TG) is a bit "flat". Can't put my finger on it and think of which specific setting you would have to change, maybe the translucency because in the bigger bushes it seems a bit too high, but that's just thinking out loud.
Another thing, which is personal, is that I really like a waterdecay color. The transparency looks too white and I'd like to see it more greenish. Think that would be more realistic.
Besides that, you still have it :) ;)

Martin
Title: Re: The Landing *V4* and Final
Post by: Zylot on April 27, 2009, 05:57:58 PM
I really like how this turned out.
Title: Re: The Landing *V4* and Final
Post by: inkydigit on April 27, 2009, 06:22:02 PM
great place to end this journey...excellent!
Title: Re: The Landing *V4* and Final
Post by: efflux on April 28, 2009, 12:33:15 AM
Nice. Much more realistic set up than the first one.
Title: Re: The Landing *V4* and Final
Post by: FrankB on April 28, 2009, 03:19:25 AM
thank you! Your kind critics have been the main contributor to get the image thus far. Without them, I would have stopped after the first render, probably :-)

Cheers,
Frank