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General => Image Sharing => Topic started by: FrankB on June 29, 2009, 04:46:55 PM

Title: southwest US WIP
Post by: FrankB on June 29, 2009, 04:46:55 PM
Hey there,

I am having fun with the southwest lib from xfrog. I thought I'd share my WIP early and get a couple of tips from you guys.
A few stats:
- quality 0.9
- AA8, SS
- GI 2/4
- finished after 1:45
- Dry grass from Walli, other plants from xfrog.
- A variation of TU's "Sand" Pack beta

Cheers,
Frank

Title: Re: southwest US WIP
Post by: aymenk2003 on June 29, 2009, 05:13:59 PM
Excellent...summer color...
Except some NOISE in the upper left...
Title: Re: southwest US WIP
Post by: Tangled-Universe on June 29, 2009, 05:20:57 PM
Great cacti! I'm not so fond of the dark groundcover, but everything else is fine. Like the vivid lighting and the sand is integrated nicely :)

Quote from: aymenk2003 on June 29, 2009, 05:13:59 PM
Excellent...summer color...
Except some NOISE in the upper left...

Well, that NOISE (why the caps???) is probably AA Bloom effect. Atmospheric noise is close to 0 in this image.
Title: Re: southwest US WIP
Post by: aymenk2003 on June 29, 2009, 05:26:21 PM
just to emphasize ... because it decrease the quality of the entire image by 25 %...
Title: Re: southwest US WIP
Post by: Tangled-Universe on June 29, 2009, 05:29:02 PM
Quote from: aymenk2003 on June 29, 2009, 05:26:21 PM
just to emphasize ... because it decrease the quality of the entire image by 25 %...

no need to emphasize/exaggerate, we can all read ;)
Title: Re: southwest US WIP
Post by: aymenk2003 on June 29, 2009, 05:32:41 PM
 :(   :(   :o   :o
Title: Re: southwest US WIP
Post by: FrankB on June 29, 2009, 05:39:47 PM
uhm... thanks guys, for the quick caps discussion.

Back to the topic: No matter how hard I try, I cannot see any noise. At all. Can you point it out a little more what you're seeing?

Regards,
Frank
Title: Re: southwest US WIP
Post by: Tangled-Universe on June 29, 2009, 05:40:44 PM
It's no problem Aymenk, don't worry :)

Hey Frank, where are my sand-ripples?
And on second thought, isn't the right cactus awesomely big, say...too big?
Title: Re: southwest US WIP
Post by: Jack on June 29, 2009, 05:44:02 PM
Quote from: FrankB on June 29, 2009, 05:39:47 PM
uhm... thanks guys, for the quick caps discussion.

Back to the topic: No matter how hard I try, I cannot see any noise. At all. Can you point it out a little more what you're seeing?

Regards,
Frank
I think he means the break up effect in the very background grass nice image anyway frank lovely lighting! the sand is cool is it procedural or image maps or both?!
Title: Re: southwest US WIP
Post by: FrankB on June 29, 2009, 05:51:42 PM
@ TU: No, the cactus on the right is really tall, compared to the other plants

@ wetbanana: the sand is entirely procedural. In this render, the ripples are mostly muted, because I didn't want a sahara look, but a shallower layer of sand.

Thanks,
Frank
Title: Re: southwest US WIP
Post by: Jack on June 29, 2009, 05:59:53 PM
Quote from: FrankB on June 29, 2009, 05:51:42 PM
@ TU: No, the cactus on the right is really tall, compared to the other plants

@ wetbanana: the sand is entirely procedural. In this render, the ripples are mostly muted, because I didn't want a sahara look, but a shallower layer of sand.

Thanks,
Frank

wow thats pretty impressive!!!
Title: Re: southwest US WIP
Post by: Tangled-Universe on June 29, 2009, 06:04:26 PM
@ wetbanana: me using image-maps...naahhh :)

Here's another example of the sand: http://forums.planetside.co.uk/index.php?topic=6809.0 (http://forums.planetside.co.uk/index.php?topic=6809.0) it's still in development and being tested by others.

Martin
Title: Re: southwest US WIP
Post by: choronr on June 29, 2009, 06:07:58 PM
Frank, this image is looking real good. Your choice of the large cactus is very good - looks like an 'Organ Pipe Cacti' which is common in the lower southwest of Arizona. In all. I find this a very inspirational piece ...you've got me thinking about my next project. I think these close-ups are more effective than those distant views.
Title: Re: southwest US WIP
Post by: Tangled-Universe on June 29, 2009, 06:12:41 PM
Quote from: choronr on June 29, 2009, 06:07:58 PM
Frank, this image is looking real good. Your choice of the large cactus is very good - looks like an 'Organ Pipe Cacti' which is common in the lower southwest of Arizona. In all. I find this a very inspirational piece ...you've got me thinking about my next project. I think these close-ups are more effective than those distant views.

If so...I might have a surprise for you in a couple of minutes ;)
Title: Re: southwest US WIP
Post by: choronr on June 29, 2009, 06:34:28 PM
Quote from: Tangled-Universe on June 29, 2009, 06:12:41 PM
Quote from: choronr on June 29, 2009, 06:07:58 PM
Frank, this image is looking real good. Your choice of the large cactus is very good - looks like an 'Organ Pipe Cacti' which is common in the lower southwest of Arizona. In all. I find this a very inspirational piece ...you've got me thinking about my next project. I think these close-ups are more effective than those distant views.

If so...I might have a surprise for you in a couple of minutes ;)
Looking forward TU.
Title: Re: southwest US WIP
Post by: FrankB on June 29, 2009, 06:45:34 PM
an update, before I go to bed.

Larger render, one new species and removed the dark groundcover mats.

Regards,
Frank
Title: Re: southwest US WIP
Post by: FrankB on June 29, 2009, 06:49:37 PM

PS: 2nd variant with slightly more contrast
Title: Re: southwest US WIP
Post by: crazymanrb on June 29, 2009, 08:28:18 PM
Dang!!!!!!! That looks fantastic!
Title: Re: southwest US WIP
Post by: Oshyan on June 30, 2009, 12:51:53 AM
These types of high detail images really suffer from JPG compression unfortunately, but it's a fantastic scene. I wonder if it wouldn't look better downsampled and still saved in JPG (more bytes-per-pixel ;D). Or perhaps a less compressed version on your web space?

- Oshyan
Title: Re: southwest US WIP
Post by: Jack on June 30, 2009, 01:00:50 AM
Quote from: Oshyan on June 30, 2009, 12:51:53 AM
These types of high detail images really suffer from JPG compression unfortunately, but it's a fantastic scene. I wonder if it wouldn't look better downsampled and still saved in JPG (more bytes-per-pixel ;D). Or perhaps a less compressed version on your web space?

- Oshyan
um I usually work with tiffs to avoid the jpg banding thing
Title: Re: southwest US WIP
Post by: Oshyan on June 30, 2009, 01:09:40 AM
I just mean for posting here on the web. I'm sure Frank works with lossless file formats when he's actually editing his images.

- Oshyan
Title: Re: southwest US WIP
Post by: FrankB on June 30, 2009, 03:13:36 AM
yesterday, I was on a rather small notebook lcd and could not see any noise. However, now that I am viewing this on  a larger screen, I understand and agree to the observation. It's not atmospheric noise, though. These plant models have very frail twigs and narrow needles, and with the resolution rendered, they appear altogether like a noisy mass.

I've rendered a crop at 2400 width, and left the crop unaltered (no postwork). There you can see that the "noise" is slowly resolving, but not gone yet. Maybe at twice the size again, the image will have enough pixel space to actually display all the fine details in that area of the image.

Regards;
Frank
Title: Re: southwest US WIP
Post by: inkydigit on June 30, 2009, 06:00:37 AM
damn, thats a sharp render Frank!...need to watch your step!....stunning realism!
Title: Re: southwest US WIP
Post by: MacGyver on June 30, 2009, 07:31:10 AM
Quote from: aymenk2003 on June 29, 2009, 05:13:59 PM
Excellent...summer color...
Except some NOISE in the upper left...

I've been off for some days but I wanted to second aymenk's opinion about the first picture. The plants in the brighter areas were quite pixelated. Hope you resolved your little discussion :-\
Title: Re: southwest US WIP
Post by: FrankB on June 30, 2009, 07:37:20 AM
here's a crop from a "problematic" area from a 4800 x 2743 render.
At this resolution, you begin to see that the fine grained detail from e.g. these bushes is causing the noise in a smaller render.
I have the suspicion that it may be good in this case to actually reduce the AA and AA bloom, as this is beginning to "erase" some of the pixels of e.g. a small branch.

Cheers,
Frank

PS: isn't this sand really nice, how it generates that virtually infinite procedural detail?

Title: Re: southwest US WIP
Post by: Henry Blewer on June 30, 2009, 07:55:09 AM
The sand really looks right. It would be hard to render that plant without the noise. It's very detailed. Is there a model of the same plant which is more 'fudged'? I mean, with less detail, but modeled to look like the detail is there?
Title: Re: southwest US WIP
Post by: aymenk2003 on June 30, 2009, 08:20:25 AM
may you have to change completely this tree ...
Title: Re: southwest US WIP
Post by: Tangled-Universe on June 30, 2009, 08:23:00 AM
I must say I'm really surprised that the sand holds up so well at this close.
Did you alter any scaling on the "grain"? If not, I might be able to get it even tighter than this ;D

Quote from: aymenk2003 on June 30, 2009, 08:20:25 AM
may you have to change completely this tree ...

I agree...it's almost un-renderable when it's not in close-up or nearby shot.
Title: Re: southwest US WIP
Post by: littlecannon on June 30, 2009, 08:32:40 AM
This is looking really nice. The lighting gives it a very hot/stylized look. I have to ask... are the dry plants available from Walli? Will they be released as a pack?
Cheers, Simon.
Title: Re: southwest US WIP
Post by: FrankB on June 30, 2009, 08:42:28 AM
the cacti and the green bushes are from the xfrog southwest gallery, but the dry grasses are from Walli indeed. These are available through Turbosquid at the moment.
But while you ask, we're working on a dry plants pack for NWDA. I have seen very promising pre-final versions of these. The pack focuses on dry bushes, which IMHO are not available at the desired quality at the moment. I think these bushes could become a must-have asset for anyone who like to create desert / canyon / dry scenery with TG2, or any other app that can work with the obj format.
Maybe we'll do something about dry grasses later if the demand would be there.

Cheers,
Frank
Title: Re: southwest US WIP
Post by: Henry Blewer on June 30, 2009, 09:13:44 AM
They would be great to have. I'm thinking I need a second job for all the stuff I want. It would be hard, since I work fifty six hours a week now.
Title: Re: southwest US WIP
Post by: Seth on June 30, 2009, 10:49:38 AM
very good sand ^^
Title: Re: southwest US WIP
Post by: Martchi on June 30, 2009, 01:07:50 PM
Beautiful scene, bravo!
Title: Re: southwest US WIP
Post by: littlecannon on July 01, 2009, 06:38:07 AM
Thanks Frank.... You've already pre-sold one pack of dry grasses and bushes to me, so I think the demand will be there. Come on guys.... who wants dry grass? Maybe we should start a poll on the interest in dry grasses and bushes eh... ;)

cheers,
Simon.
Title: Re: southwest US WIP
Post by: domdib on July 01, 2009, 06:55:35 AM
And don't forget the sand shader - I predict a lot of desert scenes in the near future, when that one comes out  ;)
Oh, and of course, beach scenes...
Title: Re: southwest US WIP
Post by: Tangled-Universe on July 01, 2009, 07:03:22 AM
All is being worked on :)
Title: Re: southwest US WIP
Post by: rcallicotte on July 01, 2009, 09:31:57 AM
Fantastic work, Frank.  Looks like somewhere I'd like to visit.
Title: Re: southwest US WIP
Post by: FrankB on July 06, 2009, 02:56:28 PM
Here's the final and last render for this scene. I have added some of Wall's dry bushes and grass, slightly different POV and a couple of other smaller changes. Thanks for being with me on this little journey :)

Frank
Title: Re: southwest US WIP
Post by: Henry Blewer on July 06, 2009, 03:33:17 PM
It has been fun watching the incarnations of this image. It looks terrific.
Title: Re: southwest US WIP
Post by: choronr on July 14, 2009, 03:51:59 PM
Frank, this is holding my eyes for quite awhile. Very inspirational!
Title: Re: southwest US WIP
Post by: Phylloxera on July 15, 2009, 01:33:26 AM
Beautiful association of plants!
Title: Re: southwest US WIP
Post by: FrankB on July 15, 2009, 03:53:52 AM
Thank you guys, glad you like it :-)