Planetside Software Forums

Hi everyone,

I'm interested to know how much you use the network view when creating scenes. It's certainly an important part of getting the most out of TG2, but I think you can also do a lot without using it.

It would also be interesting to hear what you think it would be difficult to do without using the network view. There are obvious things like making function node networks and the like, but if you mostly interact with TG2 using the Object/Shader/etc. panels and the param views then it would be interesting to know the sorts of things you find yourself having to resort to the network view to do.

I just like to anticipate the question as to whether we're thinking of getting rid of the network view, to which I can emphatically state we're not!

Regards,

Jo

You may have noticed, that for a few times I needed a break. This was after trying to create a scene without using the node network ;)  :D ;D ;D

The node network is essential for me, even for non-function images.

Volker

I almost exclusively work in the node network. Occaisionally I'll add an object or population from the panels but I'd really prefer they weren't there at all. Or, at least, that the tabs were able to be minimized or closed completely from a default scene.

I use the terrain tab to add a PF shader for basic terrains aswell, this just saves the need to edit the scales to terrain size if they're added in the network view.

I haven't done a scene yet where I haven't used it. Of course, the fact that many people on these boards use the network view may not be representative of the typical user, as we are by definition self-selecting as the enthusiasts, some of whom are also expert users who need to use it to achieve advanced effects.

When starting out with TG2 I used the upper left panel to add things, but now I exclusively use the network. I wouldn't mind if the upper left area could be minimized.

---Dune

I'm mostly using the panels and sometimes hide the network view altogether. For the basic scene, I don't need it. However, whenever it gets into detail tweaking or using functions, that's when I switch to using the network view, sometimes exclusively.

I exclusively use the network view, except for creating populations and water objects.

I flick in between the two. They have as much functionality as each other for me. TG2 seems to ge a bit schizophrenic when you open panels in the node network, sometimes it opens new ones and sometimes it just opens them on the left. Windows 7 being a pain for me at the minute, putting new windows behind existing ones so for the minute I'm sticking to the GUI or using XP and disabling all the other processes.

Quote from: PG on September 22, 2009, 06:23:49 AM
I flick in between the two. They have as much functionality as each other for me. TG2 seems to ge a bit schizophrenic when you open panels in the node network, sometimes it opens new ones and sometimes it just opens them on the left. Windows 7 being a pain for me at the minute, putting new windows behind existing ones so for the minute I'm sticking to the GUI or using XP and disabling all the other processes.

I agree with you about the schizophrenic part....I'd like to have TG2 *always* open a pop-up when I double click on a node.

I think the node network is becoming more intuitive for me. A few times, something I added in the node network did not show up in the 'tree' area. Someone suggested the nodes 'snap' into a grid. I am starting to think this would be a good thing. I was against it before.
It would be nice to be able to create a new Group without having to find it in the menus. Then again, I could take the time to learn the keyboard shortcuts. :-[

A little trick, well not even that really, I use is to name groups and individual nodes with a precursor, so a group with an internal network might be " +Stones " for example or a " +Grass ", and nodes I will frequently need to refer to I might call " 1Seed Fractal " etc. The important bit is not the names, call em what you want, its the first letter, number or symbol. Numbers and symbols (well the standard keyboard ones) will always be at the top of your right click assign menu, makes them MUCH easier to find.
:)
Richard

I often use many of the same nodes over and over. It's not very creative maybe. But I usually place them in the same places. A surface layer will be quite distant from the previous layer or next layer. The child parts are in between, if you follow me. It's easy to trace back up the node tree from each root layer.

Quote from: Tangled-Universe on September 22, 2009, 06:35:41 AM

Quote from: PG on September 22, 2009, 06:23:49 AM
I flick in between the two. They have as much functionality as each other for me. TG2 seems to ge a bit schizophrenic when you open panels in the node network, sometimes it opens new ones and sometimes it just opens them on the left. Windows 7 being a pain for me at the minute, putting new windows behind existing ones so for the minute I'm sticking to the GUI or using XP and disabling all the other processes.

I agree with you about the schizophrenic part....I'd like to have TG2 *always* open a pop-up when I double click on a node.

If you were to keep your current viewport based in the 'node network' tab of the panels, all windows would open in their own box...

I'd like to see window configuration options like in Adobe CS4 where you can arrange a view and define what is and what is not visible and then give it a name and save. This way you can switch from one view to another quickly. There are some projects that require a bigger network view and some that could do with a bigger preview (especially when it will utilize more than 1 core), but quick and efficient switching between views would really improve the workflow.

And I really prefer to work on "thematic panels" instead of one network view. I like switching between shader tab and terrain or atmosphere one. It makes my work easier to set-up and the network is a bit scary, especially on scenes with a lot of shaders.

Quote from: Tangled-Universe on September 22, 2009, 05:30:51 AM
I exclusively use the network view, except for creating populations and water objects.

ditto

I use the node view exclusively with a few rare exceptions.I find it to be
much! easier then using the list on the upper left.Less confusing for me.

I would have voted "most of the time" since "some" seems to intimate less than half.

Anyway, I think, as others have indicated, that most beginners use the panels and migrate towards the nodes as they gain experience and start seeing what others are doing using the nodes.  But I suppose there many new users that have been exposed to a node network in applications like World Machine, Genetica, Lightwave node editor, and many others.

One thing I'd like to see is a way to "tear off" the node window to move it to a second monitor -- keep it maximized but still give you the render and preview windows in view.

Hi jaf ...

go to the Menu 'View' and select 'Network in new Window' ;)

I use both, but mainly network view. I am an artworker by trade and find it easier to look at my mess of connections (rather than a list of words) and even enjoy organizing them. I can also just open the settings that I need without having to change windows. I can also just try different connections or easily duplicate a node etc.
Cheers, Simon.

I started off working without the node network at all.  But now that I have a better understanding of how things work, I've started switching over to it occasionally.  Usually when playing around with displacement on terrains.

As it is now, the network view quickly becomes horribly crowded. This is not a fault of this kind of UI, but the consequence of the lack of ways to group nodes into a single block; add this facility and every will become again manageable (e.g., compare FilterForge mind boggling networks with the progressive analysis of Genetica networks).

Bye!!!

its probably 35% using the network view for me I olnly use it when masking clouds connecting paint shaders functions and doubling atmospheres the rest I can do much easier without the network

Thanks Volker!  I should have known that and think I did at one time. ???  Getting old is tough.

Quote from: dandelO on September 22, 2009, 03:14:16 AM
I almost exclusively work in the node network. Occaisionally I'll add an object or population from the panels but I'd really prefer they weren't there at all. Or, at least, that the tabs were able to be minimized or closed completely from a default scene.

Echoing dandelo -- I exclusively use the node networks, almost never the panels, and would like to minimize them as well.

I use both...predominantly the network view, though when I first started TG2, I was unfamiliar with how to use the network view, and the panels were familiar like the original Terragen...each has their merits!

I use the network constantly. The only time I'll use the drop down menu in the panels is for adding elements like cloud layers, or heightfields. Comes from using node based apps for about 15 years.

XSI has a neat way of dragging and dropping from a categorised list panel at the left, directly into the node view. It speeds up the workflow very nicely without all of the right clicking and navigating dropdowns, etc.

Basically, imagine the right-click menu items were put in a panel of columns of main category, and then sub-categories, in a scrollable panel.

Quote from: JimB on September 24, 2009, 06:08:45 AM
XSI has a neat way of dragging and dropping from a categorised list panel at the left, directly into the node view. It speeds up the workflow very nicely without all of the right clicking and navigating dropdowns, etc.

I think it would be very nice to have something similar in TG2.
Though the right-click-menu is more optimised now it still is a bit user-unfriendly in my opinion.
It would then also be nice if it has some functionality like holding SHIFT or CTRL or whatever when dragging the node and that multiple nodes of that type are made when clicking left mouse button while keeping the SHIFT or CTRL pressed.

Very simple and little things which make it just easier and nicer to work with.
(am not saying that drag&drop feature is simple and little though)

I always add new items to the scene from the menu on the left because it's quicker. After that, I work exclusively on the network view - I can't get anything done without it. For me, the bit on the left is a bit of a wasted space - wish you could hide it, or something so I could work fullscreen.

I only ever use the left panel for adding new nodes, mostly Terrains, Surfaces and Cloud layers etc. Thinking about it now I never refer to it once an item has been added. The only reason I use it at all is to add 4 or 5 basic node combinations.  That's because the Surface layer comes in with a Breakup shader already attached, Cloud layers arrive with their fractal breakup shader, terrains turn up at a useful size, water arrives with its shader too and object populations have their object markers. Also nodes added this way wired into the Network for you (weather you want them to be or not ;)). None of these are available via the right click menu! If I could add combination nodes like this without the left hand panel then the panel would serve no purpose. On plenty of projects now I'm starting to run very low on Network view real estate, it would be great if the left hand panel could be minimized, giving more space to the Network view and 3D preview.

So my request if your thinking about modifying the network view is to make it bigger and add to it the functionality of adding networked combination nodes. Basically take what the left hand panel dose and put that in the network view via the top row of add buttons and the right click menu.

Just one of those 1.53am waiting for the render to finish rambles. :)

Richard

ps:I have NEVER used the left hand window "list" view (the list visible in the left hand window when the top Node Network button is selected), ever, not once ... :)

A really cool thing I've only noticed a couple of weeks ago is this: On right-click of a node's output, the options are there to add any shader from the pop out menu.
I knew you could do this in a node input, obviously, but not its output because it doesn't say 'create' shader when you context click an output. If you choose a shader, though, it will automatically be integrated into the scene after that right-clicked output(and it will resize any groups that are in that area, too.)

Quote from: dandelO on September 25, 2009, 10:12:23 PM
A really cool thing I've only noticed a couple of weeks ago is this: On right-click of a node's output, the options are there to add any shader from the pop out menu.
I knew you could do this in a node input, obviously, but not its output because it doesn't say 'create' shader when you context click an output. If you choose a shader, though, it will automatically be integrated into the scene after that right-clicked output(and it will resize any groups that are in that area, too.)

Thanks for pointing this out, that is a good thing.