Hi guys,
hope you enjoy this little freebie goodie ;-)
http://www.nwdanet.com/buy-packs/details/43/7/preset-packs/nwda-default-project
Best regards,
Frank
Nicely done, there's a lot of learning gone in there :)
Thanks
Richard
ps Is this the version (or a updated modification thereof) that will ship with the future TG2 as its defualt scene?
Quote from: cyphyr on September 23, 2009, 11:43:59 AM
Nicely done, there's a lot of learning gone in there :)
Thanks
Richard
ps Is this the version (or a updated modification thereof) that will ship with the future TG2 as its defualt scene?
Thanks Richard. And no, this is based on the default project I have created for myself. I don't know if there are plans to extend the genuine default project that ships with TG2 in the future, but I would be in favour of that, at least it could come with a choice of the current one, and a more "feature rich" one. That's probably not the right word, but I mean one that has some out of the box functionality like the one I made.
Hope you find the NWDA version useful.
Cheers,
Frank
Wow. Very impressive :). Planetside should definitely consider picking that up for the new default ;)
It's surprising how many people don't know about default startup files. I've used my(constantly updating) own startup scene for ages.
This one seems pretty handy with all the included functions, that I have no knowledge of. :D
One thing, by the looks of the network images, your groups could be numbered to keep them in ascending order.(maybe they are, it's hard to tell from the small shots).
Lol, I don't suppose there's much point in me carrying on with the idea to release 'defaultO - by dandelO' in PL-vol.4! deletO! :D
Quote from: dandelO on September 23, 2009, 12:11:58 PM
Lol, I don't suppose there's much point in me carrying on with the idea to release 'defaultO - by dandelO' in PL-vol.4! deletO! :D
I definitely think you should, the more learning resources out there the better :)
Richard
I forgot to mention that I am likely going to update this over time as well.
For that, I rely on your experiences from using it. I'm happy to incorporate suggestions.
I'm wondering for myself how much pre-defined is still useful. It would be easy to stuff this default project with things, but I reckon it can also easily become too much to be useful. I think the current one is a good compromise, but only practice will tell over time.
I would be very happy if you can share your reviews for it on NWDA, or here - both will be good.
Cheers,
Frank
I just downloaded it. Thank you. It will be interesting to see how this works, and see the things I have never or hardly used laid out for use.
Great, Frank. Glad you guys did this.
I like the organization. I took a look at the power fractal (connect to compute terrain). Do you always use such small scales? I think the smallest scale I use in the terrain tab is 10. It gives lots of room in the shaders tab for small details.
Anyway, why such small scale?
Have you looked into the internal network of the procedrual terrain *group*?
You will see a few stacked powerfractal in there, with consecutively decreasing scales. The one on the outside of the group is the one with the cm scales. It allows for relatively close-up shot.
Cheers,
Frank
Hidden gems! :-[ 8)
Well I will be honest: I'm lost! Could you explain just a little on how you would use this Frank. Just a quick primer on how would I use the functions, 3D noise and Trig are all GREEK to me! -Bill .
Quote from: matrix2003 on September 23, 2009, 05:10:55 PM
Well I will be honest: I'm lost! Could you explain just a little on how you would use this Frank. Just a quick primer on how would I use the functions, 3D noise and Trig are all GREEK to me! -Bill .
Ok.
So basically, if you don't work with functions, you can ignore these groups altogether. If you want to try the noises for example anyway, you could just make a surface shader and connect one of the noise outlets to the color function input or the displacement input of the surface shader and see what happens.
Now, if you do develop a function, let's say you want to make cracks, or ploughed field rows, or pretty much anything really, you always have to create a number of function nodes first, before you can really get started on the actual function. All function networks need x, y or z coordinates, and the new default scene gives these to you right away. I figured that you very often also need sine functions along xyz, and these are available now too.
Same with voronoi or perlin noises. These groups just save you a little time and help keep your otherwise potentially cobweb-like functions a little cleaner.
Does that help a bit? Don't hesitate to ask.
Cheers,
Frank
Well Terragen for me has always been about learning new ways to look at things! I used to call it my "never ending learning curve."
Thanks for the info and I am sure folks will chime in as they dissect this. Thanks a lot. - Bill .
Hey Frank, how do I download the preset from your site? Should I open an account?
---Dune
yes, just open an account, then you can add products to your cart, then checkout. If you only have free products in the cart, you will receive an email with download codes directly after checkout.
Cheers,
Frank
Thanks, Frank...
very kind of you Frank...looks like it could be very useful!
Cheers
Jason
Looks a very useful contribution to the community. At the risk of sounding ungrateful (which I'm not!), I wonder whether, perhaps in future, a short piece (either written or video) might be added that would give some useful pointers on how to utilise the function parts of the network?
Well done to everyone at NWDA!
Hi Dominic, these function groups really only matter when you know how to use functions, in which case they are a convenient addition. Everyone else can just ignore them, or delete them, or save them as a clip file for later use and then delete them from the default project. Then overwrite the default project, so that they don't appear anymore on startup.
This default project is probably best suite for advanced users, with the function groups showing up. Maybe I should create a simpler version without them, and ship them both in a zip file, so you can choose which one you like better.
Cheers,
Frank
I love this and I have already slightly customized it to my particular use. Just added Heightfield with load/resize/adjust etc. children and removed the Fractal terrains, maybe will add a couple of cameras.
It's a shame that TG2 doesn't remember to keep the sky ON because that's the first thing I check when making a new scene, I like to see the terrain with sky on in every tab, rather than black.
Quote from: Parrot69 on September 24, 2009, 08:19:48 AM
... I like to see the terrain with sky on in every tab, rather than black.
Funny, show how we all work different. I almost always work with the sky OFF!.
:)
Richard
Quote from: Parrot69 on September 24, 2009, 08:19:48 AM
It's a shame that TG2 doesn't remember to keep the sky ON because that's the first thing I check when making a new scene, I like to see the terrain with sky on in every tab, rather than black.
I do exactly the opposite !
I just click on the "render tab" to check the surface colours once in a while...
I only have the sky on in the render tab. It slows things down otherwise. If I think I need a full preview, I just go to the render tab.
I guess what I'm hinting at is that it would be super good if one of the NWDA products could be a kind of introductory guide to functions, perhaps with a few accompanying clip files/scenes, and maybe even guidance on using that setup in the default scene. Now who could produce such a thing? They'd have to be a wizard at functions, and also excellent at explaining things...
Quote from: domdib on September 24, 2009, 10:51:39 AM
I guess what I'm hinting at is that it would be super good if one of the NWDA products could be a kind of introductory guide to functions, perhaps with a few accompanying clip files/scenes, and maybe even guidance on using that setup in the default scene. Now who could produce such a thing? They'd have to be a wizard at functions, and also excellent at explaining things...
VOLKEEEEEEEEEER !!! ;D
The problem with the blue function nodes is that they're miss sold. What Matt showed us last week link (http://forums.planetside.co.uk/index.php?topic=7548.msg80786#msg80786) illustrates the point very well. That was not a complex node network but a simple and elegant solution integrating the "math" of functions with the "art?" of power fractals. I'd like to see the functions taught right up alongside the basic terrain and surface modifications so the perceived barrier ("Oh its far too complex for me, I never understood math" etc) is removed. Learning by relevant example is far easier to absorb and I think would open up the whole "blue function" nodes to a very much wider audience :)
:)
Richard
Well said, Richard. And Volker is pretty good at these sorts of things. Maybe he and nvseal could get together...well, anyone at NWDA, really.
I'm going to bitch... so sorry up front for this. <Begin Rant> Can't you developers make this program easy to understand? Or barring that. update the documentation with better interface instructions <End Rant>
Frank, I took a look at the default preset and while it produces wonderful results, I thought it would have been an excellent "entry" to TG2 for newcomers. So, not being a new-comer I start digging to see if I can understand it. The first thing that I come across that catches my curiosity is the "connect to compute terrain" node. I see that it has really low values and I can't understand how such low values could result in the landscape that I see. A little bit of research and I see that I have to right click on the "fractal terrain" group, and then I see how the three inside nodes Base Perlin, Medium size details, small size details.
Gripes:
1) finding them - who would have thought to right click on the group.
2) I see no indication of how they tie into the rest of the node network. Connect to Compute Terrain doesn't document being tied to them, and the hidden three gems show no indication of how they are tied to the node network - except by their being in the "add Terrain" panel.
Sorry - I'm probably going to find out that this is clearly documented and that I just failed to look and see it. If given a choice of styles, I prefer the what DandelO did with his boss grass shading node, that had internal components. With that concept, I have a sense of placement and sequence. Again, I am probably missing something very basic - and it is me.
On another note, I appreciate very much the work that everyone is doing to make TG2 a success - we are the ones that benefit from that!!
Piet
Don't hurt me Planetside! ;D I remember when T2 came out, there was a characterization in the forums that Terragen 0.9.43 was an easy hobbyist program, and T2 was not. It was described as, 'from memory' now- so don't kill me if I get this wrong, -that T2 was more for a professional person in a graphics field that would comprehend all of this. I have to agree, that is true, and I have beat an awful lot of this into my head, - but there is equally a lot that escapes me. That being said, the old 9.43 days had a wealth of info: http://terrasource.net/ = 403 Forbidden now.
I am still on board, but its not easy guys!
Planetside didn't create the NWDA Default Scene. Just in case there's any ambiguity, NWDA is an independent entity and Planetside is not responsible for anything they release. Please bear that in mind when using third party projects with internal networks filled with hidden nodes or other setups that we don't officially endorse.
Terragen 2 itself needs more documentation, we know, and we'll work on that.
Promises, promises, mutter, mutter, spittle and butter. I'll be here waiting and waiting because I know someday it will be better and because you guys are kicking butt. BTW, I posted the default at RO and two people even marked the damn thing as favorites. So perhaps you "should" endorse Frank's work. But I question that the software should allow for "hidden" or rather "un-tracked" nodes. Ok, I've been bad enough, I'll crawl back under one of the surfaces of a render that's crawling along....
It's not good that that you can't easily find them - the user interface should make it more clear when there are internal nodes.
Matt
Hi Piet :)
I couldn't help a little smile while reading your post, because you're right in that it's not obvious how the fractal terrain works in this default scene. *However*, it's not intended to be a fully documented procedural network. It's just a preset, if you will. I use it for myself whenever I just need a random procedural terrain - usually when the scene I want to make is not centered or close up on the terrain. It's similar to the default heightfield shader in the the sense that you can click generate terrain and then looks for a nice POV - just that this one is procedural and goes around the planet.
You can use that, or re-connect the default heightfield instead.
Trouble is, that the procedural terrain is not build with just one shader, and I was simplifying the usage by hiding the majority of the network, just having one shader to connect to from the outside. Which helps in keeping the network cleaner.
Sorry for scaring you that it seemed I can build large mountains with centimeter scale fractals ;D
Glad you figured it out now. I agree however - I think everyone agrees - that it should be more obvious from the UI when a group or node contains thing in the inner network. However, please note that Planetside is an independent entity from NWDA, and we're not responsible for what Planetside releases ;D ;D ;D
Anyway, jokes aside, the NWDA default project is just free stuff we're sharing, in the hope that someone may find it useful. If not, never mind, just throw it in the virtual waste bin :)
Regards;
Frank
;) Sorry for stirring up the ruckus.. From my point of view what you guys do is very useful and also is exactly what we need in order for TG2 to acquire greater mass appeal. On a personal note, I find the work you guys do very valuable from a plug and play perspective. But believe me, if that was all it provided, while useful, I wouldn't have bought it. Because ease of use is secondary to being able to use it as a learning device.
A few weeks ago (or so) when this site was invaded by the TG9 hoopla, I was in shock as to how faithful they were to their old software and how furious the attacks on TG2.
I think your packs have the potential to bring in new folks that otherwise would have been scared off. But if I had to hazard a guess, the types of folk that use applications like this have great curiosity and pretty much will demand to know how it works. But I might be wrong, there might be a large untapped pool of folks on the plug and play spectrum...
Name groups that have internal networks with a "+" prefix.
is all :)
Richard
Brilliant :D ..and Thanks Matt.
This may sound a bit 'cocky', and I do mean it less severely than it may sound, but I personally like it that TG is not too easy to understand. Firstly, it keeps my brain active (no alzheimer for me hopefully) and gives me great satisfaction to have accomplished something. And secondly, if TG becomes 'commonplace', just anybody can render great scenes with just a few clicks. To compare it to painting artists, you'd have the fill-in cards to produce Rembrandts, and the world is swamped with TG renders.
For instance; I have just found a way to get colour variation in one pop of trees (or grass, or whatever), but hesitate to share, as it took me a couple of days experimenting, testing, sleepless nights and 'headaches'.
---Dune
If it was simple, we would not have the variety of renders. Besides, I can use simple techniques to make interesting renders. They may not stack next to the 'Masters', but I enjoy the process.
Hi,
For the next release I've added a little plus icon to the right side of nodes which have internal nodes. That's a coincidence Richard ;-). I've also added "Has internal nodes" to the tooltip for nodes with internal nodes.
Something else I added a little while ago is a little arrow next to node inputs or outputs to show that they're connected to a node in a different part of the hierarchy. I was getting a bit confused by inputs or outputs which didn't appear to be connected but which were actually connected to a node at a different level.
Regards,
Jo
Guys excuse me but TG2 have to some degree to be easy to use . İ use the free version but with this kınd of small cost Planetside have to sell a lot more. With that kind of approach i don' t think that we see many and fast advances in the software.
Beside that there are many cheap photo cameras but not so many good Photos...same with TG 2 ...it is the artist the talent that matters. But i know you know that ;)
Kadri.
could be worth splitting this thread...
Well said, Kadri. A difficult-to-get-to-grips-with TG2 is not for me either. I totally disagree with the exclusive, esoteric approach that Dune seems to be promoting. Sure there is a learning curve with any complex application, but the aim surely has to be a TG2 that is as user-friendly as possible. And I'm also sure this is Planetside's ultimate aim too.
John
Quote from: FrankB on September 28, 2009, 07:44:10 AM
could be worth splitting this thread...
Frank excuse me if i don' t make it clear. There can be many thinks said about your contribution as NWDA. But i think you make TG2 easy to use. İ am not against you and thanks :)
Schmeerlap :)
Kadri.
I am also enjoying the learning curve. It keeps me coming back to the program, "What can i do next?" I've learned so much here also. All in all, I am very addicted. 8)
Quote from: Dune on September 28, 2009, 03:15:05 AM
For instance; I have just found a way to get colour variation in one pop of trees (or grass, or whatever), but hesitate to share, as it took me a couple of days experimenting, testing, sleepless nights and 'headaches'.
---Dune
Sell your efforts at NWDA. ;)
I'm both in agreement and disagreement with Dune. Whereas, I love the setup and absolute flexibility and customization that TG offers. It's like a puzzle box, or a Kinder Egg, you throw away the instructions anyway and build the little toy car yourself, at least I do.
Sharing my findings is where I kind of disagree. I usually can't wait to come in here and go:- 'Check this, guys! Did you know if you put a cloud layer and a water shader inside the grass object it'll make procedural dew-drops in every instance of the grass, like this?(it doesn't! ;)) Here have it!'.
It's the way I found TG(old) and its community when I was a beginner. So many terrain files and surface maps, tutorials and guides, etc. Just lying around, everywhere!
I know I took, and learned from, my fair share of these resources. And to a large degree, I still do. Everyone has their own slant on what does what and sometimes you just don't see the wood for the trees.
I just like to put some back now that I can, I do more excercises in experimentation and guides and stuff in TG than I do actual scenes for myself nowadays. I usually end up making things that others would find useful and, hopefully, learn from and produce something better than I ever could with it. My renders are usually pretty mediocre compared to some of the real artists in here, my efforts are better put into practice this way. :D
Things like this free default scene from NWDA, cloud files, terrains, objects, forum posts and discussions etc. are the gems that create the basis for new users and also some old ones, to really try and get a new light on what at first seems like a very intimidating application, or even just a dead end.
The more options and variety of resources - the better. Like Frank said, if you don't like it, chuck it in the virtual bin! :D
Yeah, you might be right, DandelO. But, as I said, I didn't mean it that 'harsh', it was kind of 'stirring' up the discussion as well. But it's perhaps that there are folks about who find out things and don't tell about it, just use it to their on advantage. And I have a 'professional deformation', as I have my own (illustrating/painting) business, and I have to keep the competition at bay, not to compromise my much needed income. So, keeping my mouth shut about my methods, or the 'others' will snatch away my commissions :-[ I too, in principle, am as eager to say; 'Hear this, see this, I found something of use'.
Well, I might share my find of the population colouring. At least I don't think it has been solved yet. And it's very easy. Takes some more testing though.
---Dune
Many people have downloaded the NWDA Default Project now, and I am curious as to whether you find it useful.
Is there anything in particular that you would like it to be extended by, and are there any existing parts that are useful?
Regards,
Frank
I did download the NWDA preset it is really a must I added dandelO revolu...grass shader and any render at any position gives a wonderful picture
...if you can add a plane lake preset ...Oh I forgot many people as me don t seem to well choose color ...some surface layer with different color would be nice...
thanks...
NKAID....
I do use it , although not all the time yet. I've deleted the 3d noise, function, trig and coordinates boxes since I rarely use them at the moment. The default terrain setup is great as is the default cloud layers. One point of note is that in my way of working I like to have a gap of open screen to the right of my TG work area where I can run small preview windows (like I say, just a personal way of working but ...) NWDA's default setup works best on a dual monitor setup since it has so many more groups than the Planetside one. Trouble is my dual mon setup is just a tad flakey ... ;D
Thanks again
Richard
I'm with you! One can never have enough screen space, right? :)
There are a few other things that I might add to the default project, which I forgot in the current one. For example, I don't really use the 3D preview much anymore, because it's too slow. Instead, I added another renderer that renders at preview size and quality in no time, compared to the 3D preview. I find I'm using this more and more, and it should be part of the default project. I now have 3 renderer, full, medium and preview. The preview is great for a quick look on how your changed are doing, the medium is good for a decent size look at half quality, and the full one renders the usual final size at good quality. The full render is the one you are likely to adjust all the time, but the preview and medium renderer are just useful as they are.
I'll add that and maybe other little things in the next iteration. I'll also think about the layout again.
Cheers,
Frank
Hate to tell you now, but I didn't know you were trying to do this. Someone figured this out a long time ago and shared their results here somewhere.
Quote from: CCC on September 28, 2009, 11:12:10 AM
Quote from: Dune on September 28, 2009, 03:15:05 AM
For instance; I have just found a way to get colour variation in one pop of trees (or grass, or whatever), but hesitate to share, as it took me a couple of days experimenting, testing, sleepless nights and 'headaches'.
---Dune
Sell your efforts at NWDA. ;)
I just leave the small preview window open, with whatever size works for the preview best. What would be a cool feature is the ability to get altitude and distance into from a render window. Maybe it could be a future upgrade.
try view ==> 3D preview location
then point your mouse anywhere in the 3d preview and see the readouts :)
Frank
Quote from: calico on October 05, 2009, 09:12:35 AM
Hate to tell you now, but I didn't know you were trying to do this. Someone figured this out a long time ago and shared their results here somewhere.
Indeed, BigBen is the guy's name.
Good memory, TU. I remembered it, after writing the post. BigBen brought lots of cool ideas and experiments and I miss him.
was it about the voronoi stuff ? i remember something with Mr Lampost too...
So where did he go ? He was a very good teacher and experimentalist. Come back Ben, Pleasssse :)
Richard
QuoteFor instance; I have just found a way to get colour variation in one pop of trees (or grass, or whatever), but hesitate to share, as it took me a couple of days experimenting, testing, sleepless nights and 'headaches'.
---Dune
Is that right, Calico? I've never found it, but at least it makes me feel good that I found out myself. I'll have another look, and see what this method is. Thanks.
---Dune
Quote from: calico on October 05, 2009, 09:12:35 AM
Hate to tell you now, but I didn't know you were trying to do this. Someone figured this out a long time ago and shared their results here somewhere.
Calico is this the post?
http://forums.planetside.co.uk/index.php?topic=3234.0
@Dune it would be nice to share if different from Bigbens work.
Quote from: reck on October 06, 2009, 06:21:06 AM
Quote from: calico on October 05, 2009, 09:12:35 AM
Hate to tell you now, but I didn't know you were trying to do this. Someone figured this out a long time ago and shared their results here somewhere.
Calico is this the post?
http://forums.planetside.co.uk/index.php?topic=3234.0
@Dune it would be nice to share if different from Bigbens work.
First I was thinking about this one:
http://forums.planetside.co.uk/index.php?topic=730.0 (http://forums.planetside.co.uk/index.php?topic=730.0)
Though your link may contain more useful information.
Quote from: Tangled-Universe on October 06, 2009, 07:08:23 AM
Quote from: reck on October 06, 2009, 06:21:06 AM
Quote from: calico on October 05, 2009, 09:12:35 AM
Hate to tell you now, but I didn't know you were trying to do this. Someone figured this out a long time ago and shared their results here somewhere.
Calico is this the post?
http://forums.planetside.co.uk/index.php?topic=3234.0
@Dune it would be nice to share if different from Bigbens work.
First I was thinking about this one:
http://forums.planetside.co.uk/index.php?topic=730.0 (http://forums.planetside.co.uk/index.php?topic=730.0)
Though your link may contain more useful information.
Bigben actually links to that page in the post i'm talking about so it's probably all about the same process.
This is one of many. BigBen usually experimented over and over on something until he shared all of his results and it was usually very in-depth.
But, I just realize I've helped hijack this thread. Sorry Frank.
Quote from: reck on October 06, 2009, 06:21:06 AM
Calico is this the post?
http://forums.planetside.co.uk/index.php?topic=3234.0
@Dune it would be nice to share if different from Bigbens work.
I have never been in a conversation that stayed on topic. ???
Frank, I've been digging through your default scene. Thanks, I've picked up quite a few new ideas of how Terragen 2 works. 8)
I apologize for my misconduct in hijacking this topic as well, Frank. Not intentional. And to end my hijack: I have found these same posts now, thanks. But different from mine, which works in pops.
---Dune
just go ahead guys, you effectively made this your thread now anyway. I recall that I suggested to split this thread, but apparently it was overlooked, so... never mind.
Frank
If I up the render resolution in this Default scene to something like 1500 pixels wide, I see the initial irradiance pass (the light sampling dots at the beginning of the render process) but then i get a black render. If I reduce the image to 1200 pixels, I will get a correct render. I have 11 GB of ram on an 8 core MacPro. Is there a setting I need to tinker with to get larger res output?
Quote from: Kadri on September 28, 2009, 07:27:45 AM
Guys excuse me but TG2 have to some degree to be easy to use . İ use the free version but with this kınd of small cost Planetside have to sell a lot more. With that kind of approach i don' t think that we see many and fast advances in the software.
Beside that there are many cheap photo cameras but not so many good Photos...same with TG 2 ...it is the artist the talent that matters. But i know you know that ;)
Kadri.
Mmmmh I agree with this.
I think alot of the problem is people see shame in using postwork they almost seem to proud to use it like its a sin, Guys even the biggest baddest 3dsmax scene has some postwork in it! I got over the fact that my scenes need a little postwork ages ago and now I have my own style of scifi art unique to me and a part of that style is postwork.
anyway I want have a look at this frank^^ see how you nwda guys do it!
As per postwork, I think the stigmata here is that people want as realistic as possible. But, if someone takes their skills and knowledge to other worlds, these "unrealistic" renders can be some of the most beautiful. Your art is awesome, wetbanana.
I do give kudos to the guys at NWDA - their realistic renders are some of the consistently best on the site, though (of course) not the only ones. TU's recent render is fantastic, for instance.
Yeah the NWDA guys are pretty cool The stuff that they do is amazing I have a few of their scenes And how the scene is set up is just so logical ;D