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General => Image Sharing => Topic started by: Dune on January 04, 2010, 02:50:19 AM

Title: Highlands
Post by: Dune on January 04, 2010, 02:50:19 AM
Resulting from my experiments with snow crystals, this came out. I tried to blend the snow layer with a color adjust (lowered the gamma) from the fractals in the original terrain, and got this strange (but nice) result. That's the small image. In the second one I intend to change the clouds, they're too harsh, and I would like slightly more light, and brighter crystals.
Title: Re: Highlands
Post by: Dune on January 04, 2010, 02:50:50 AM
And the overall image.
Title: Re: Highlands
Post by: Kadri on January 04, 2010, 03:51:58 AM
Dune the sparkle on snow in the first image is great.
I think with strange you mean the transparent-cloudy intersecting with the ground.
But other then this this image is remarkably   :)

Kadri.
Title: Re: Highlands
Post by: EoinArmstrong on January 04, 2010, 04:06:07 AM
Looke excellent - I know the snow looks a little 'sudsy', but the effect is still awesome.  It almost looks as if you've managed to fudge sub-surface scattering!
Title: Re: Highlands
Post by: mhaze on January 04, 2010, 04:26:13 AM
This really reminds me of the Scottish highlands as the snow begins to melt.
Title: Re: Highlands
Post by: Tangled-Universe on January 04, 2010, 04:52:22 AM
Great work here Dune, love the snow :)
The grey fuzzy zone is hard to control and "inevitable", though you can minimize it by fine-tuning the settings in your surfacelayer.
I can give you some suggestions if you wish.

Martin
Title: Re: Highlands
Post by: schmeerlap on January 04, 2010, 06:26:04 AM
That icy sparkle on the snow is spot on for me.

John
Title: Re: Highlands
Post by: Dune on January 04, 2010, 07:49:22 AM
Thanks for the offer, Martin. What would you do about it? I set the black and white point at default, but the gamma at 0.2. It needs a very precise adjustment I noticed. Also tried a negative black point, but after so many variables changed I couldn't see the 'trees among the forest' any more.
I rendered another version this morning, and got quite frustrated about tiny specks in the snow. Couldn't get rid of it somehow. Made a fresh pure white surface layer, and even there the ******* things turned up. See this image. BUT! As I am typing this, on my other machine I keep on testing, and found the culprit. It was the clouds! Too low quality. So in a couple of hours I will update this image.

---Dune
Title: Re: Highlands
Post by: Henry Blewer on January 04, 2010, 08:12:16 AM
I have actually seen snow bunch up and look very much like this area of 'cloud artifacts'. I think this is spot on, but it could be my monitor. The monitor has really poor contrast.
Title: Re: Highlands
Post by: Dune on January 04, 2010, 08:19:26 AM
As a matter of fact I am also trying to get snow clumps here and there, but didn't succeed so far. I do have an idea about getting the snow to pile up against branches or twigs. Have to work on that as well.
Ah, I now see the next render developing, really exciting. It's gonna be nice!
Title: Re: Highlands
Post by: Tangled-Universe on January 04, 2010, 08:40:58 AM
Can't wait to see it Ulco!
I'm very interested in how you think you can manage to get the snow pile up against branches etc, since *objects* are not evaluated in generating the surfaces. As far as I know.
As you may have seen I PM'ed you with some suggestions.

Martin
Title: Re: Highlands
Post by: Dune on January 04, 2010, 12:09:38 PM
Yeah, thanks for your message, Martin. Answer is on its way...

Here's the Highland image (70% of total size, which took 1.2 hours at 0.5 and 4, GI default) without the cloud artefacts, but with a last stand of pines to be cut down. It's rather nice I think. Perhaps a slight haze... Enjoy.

---Dune
Title: Re: Highlands
Post by: inkydigit on January 04, 2010, 02:00:02 PM
excellent work!
Title: Re: Highlands
Post by: aymenk2003 on January 04, 2010, 02:25:27 PM
I can touch the snow now...
Good render ...could you please make a tutorial on that or ...How to make a real snow with sparkle
Title: Re: Highlands
Post by: Seth on January 04, 2010, 03:00:14 PM
very good looking snow !
lovely reflection
Title: Re: Highlands
Post by: Henry Blewer on January 04, 2010, 03:39:13 PM
That's it. looks like the very cold snow we have outside the window.
Title: Re: Highlands
Post by: Linda McCarthy on January 04, 2010, 04:35:13 PM
The icy snow looks remarkably realistic.  Linda
Title: Re: Highlands
Post by: dandelO on January 04, 2010, 04:48:12 PM
Wow, man! The first image is fantastic, that's my favourite.
The sparkle spread is great and the slightly glassy appearance on the rocks, too. Very nice.
Title: Re: Highlands
Post by: Dune on January 05, 2010, 04:07:53 AM
Well, as a matter of fact, I like the first image, but because it's a bit weird, not realistic. If you blend the snowshader by the softened initial terrain fractal, it gets this way. It looks like very transparant snow, or kind of steaming snow. Perhaps interesting to experiment with.
The tiny displacements are more from cloud artifacts in the first one. What would be nice now, and I hope I have time to experiment with that, is to get a melting edge around the snow (perhaps with another intersection layer and a water shader.....)
Title: Re: Highlands
Post by: Tangled-Universe on January 05, 2010, 06:37:47 AM
Sounds like a great idea Ulco! You would be my hero if you can get convincing results. I tried it too when I was making my snowshader, but gave up, pain in the ass. I know you're more resourceful with masking etc. than me, so I'm quite hopeful you can pull it off :)
Title: Re: Highlands
Post by: Dune on January 05, 2010, 09:18:01 AM
Well, Martin, a render is now buzzing along. Exciting, especially being a hero if it succeeds  ;D

I made a next surface layer, with a favor depression (intersection didn't work properly), a little smoothing, fuzzy softness 0.5 or so, and a reflective shader as a child. Water shader (all 0) looked very nice (maybe nicer) as well, but took far more time, so I chose the reflective for the time being. Blended it by a distance shader to keep it close. Very simple, and it seems like some runoff of water now.
I tried to make a small lake with the displacements from the terrain, and lower it a bit, but that didn't work properly. Although I didn't put much time in it, as the other method seems fine.

Will be updated...
Title: Re: Highlands
Post by: Tangled-Universe on January 05, 2010, 09:24:56 AM
Quote from: Dune on January 05, 2010, 09:18:01 AM
Well, Martin, a render is now buzzing along. Exciting, especially being a hero if it succeeds  ;D

I made a next surface layer, with a favor depression (intersection didn't work properly), a little smoothing, fuzzy softness 0.5 or so, and a reflective shader as a child. Water shader (all 0) looked very nice (maybe nicer) as well, but took far more time, so I chose the reflective for the time being. Blended it by a distance shader to keep it close. Very simple, and it seems like some runoff of water now.
I tried to make a small lake with the displacements from the terrain, and lower it a bit, but that didn't work properly. Although I didn't put much time in it, as the other method seems fine.

Will be updated...

Hmmm...favor depressions, that didn't came to me back then. I was always in the assumption that using multiple intersect underlying surface layers would give problems, and it did, but I always tried displacement intersections, not displacement intersection + favor depression. With an extra compute terrain it should always work now I think.
Anyhow, I'm looking forward to see the result :)

Martin
Title: Re: Highlands
Post by: Dune on January 05, 2010, 12:37:13 PM
Here's what happens if you change perlin into ridges, and lift them again. Although snow does blow up in ridges, this is too much. But the wetness kind of succeeded, although I admit it's difficult to get it right. A painted shader mask would be a lot easier I guess.
On the other machine the next one is rendering, now with the extra water shader (depressions, no fuzzy zone and slight smoothing) before the snow, hence it only occurs on the rocky soil.

By the way, Martin, an extra compute terrain doesn't work as it changes the terrain, even with patch=1.
Title: Re: Highlands
Post by: MacGyver on January 05, 2010, 03:10:01 PM
That's a fantastic improvement, already looks more exciting and lively :)
Title: Re: Highlands
Post by: paleo on January 05, 2010, 06:09:31 PM
That's one of the best snow pics I have ever seen in digital art... the glitter of the ice crystals is remarkable. The ridges in the last picture are indeed too much for this specific scene, but I think they could look good in a landscape heavily covered by deep snow...
Title: Re: Highlands
Post by: Linda McCarthy on January 05, 2010, 10:53:52 PM
Nice hard pack!
Title: Re: Highlands
Post by: Dune on January 06, 2010, 03:27:18 AM
I added some melting water, but it took ages (well, 3 hours for the top part, before I shut it down, which is 2 hours more than with the little water). This was the water shader, perhaps a reflective shader would have been just as good. This was done using a layer before the snow layer, with favor depressions activated and a lot of tweaking. Still not satisfied, but I must work on something else now. There's still the painted shader to try...
Title: Re: Highlands
Post by: inkydigit on January 06, 2010, 03:36:51 AM
I think that the last one looks very good, maybe a reflective shader would be quicker too?...still great work!
Title: Re: Highlands
Post by: EoinArmstrong on January 06, 2010, 05:03:04 AM
Last one looks awesome - but I'm still tickled by the first one :)
Title: Re: Highlands
Post by: Tangled-Universe on January 06, 2010, 07:13:55 AM
It looks good Ulco, good for sure. The melting water does not really work for me though. I got similar results, but I just find it not convincing, it looks more like slimy stones. It would be nice, though bitchy hard to achieve, to have multiple small puddles of melted snow around the main snow-layer.

Martin
Title: Re: Highlands
Post by: Henry Blewer on January 06, 2010, 08:02:38 AM
I think the water might be too bumpy. I would try using an object for the water area, tilted to the terrain angle, and intersecting through the bare rocks. Maybe come back to this next month and give yourself some time for reflection. Sort of like remembering someone's name you do not see very often; it's right at the edge of your thought, but just will not surface.
Title: Re: Highlands
Post by: Dune on January 06, 2010, 10:44:40 AM
@Martin: no it is not good enough for me too. I have now tried 'fake water' with a reflective shader more or less transparent, and some vague color on the surface (by using luminosity). Much faster, that's the plus side of it. I also used a painted shader which works much easier, but still used the favor depressions as well. BUT. Still not good enough, and another one is rendering....
The melting water wouldn't actually have to be real 'lakes' as it would run across the terrain, and merely wet the soil and stones up to a level. I think it would be feasible to displace some puddles downwards (painted shader, through mask+camera or crater shader) and put some small lakes in there. Lot of work though.

@njeneb: I have tried a lake with the same displacement as the main terrain, but didn't have the time to pursue that. It might work though, I've done it before. But it would probably take a long render time.

---Dune   
Title: Re: Highlands
Post by: Dune on January 09, 2010, 12:40:51 PM
I was not very happy with the extra displacement of the snow, hence I produced another render. This time with procedural melting instead of the painted shader melting. Very tricky to get right, as you can see. Painted shader probably works best to get melting water at the right place, although I have another option up my sleeve (if I have time).

---Dune
Title: Re: Highlands
Post by: EoinArmstrong on January 10, 2010, 03:44:36 AM
Wow - great pic - the use of the dirt/stones  and scrub grass is superb!
Title: Re: Highlands
Post by: Tangled-Universe on January 10, 2010, 06:59:42 AM
Cool work Ulco. The melting water is really hard to make isn't it :) On some part (to the left for example) it looks quite good. You see water at the edge of snow which is nicely done.
Minor adjustment I'd make is to increase highlight spread and reduce highlight intensity.
Other than that it's great :)

Martin
Title: Re: Highlands
Post by: FrankB on January 10, 2010, 07:09:58 AM
Good work Ulco, especially on the surface of the snow. I don't think the snow distribution is realistic, but the snow itself certainly is, and that's a big achievement!

Cheers,
Frank
Title: Re: Highlands
Post by: Henry Blewer on January 10, 2010, 08:32:25 AM
It's 1 degree F outside. The snow here is so close to being real it's scary. It looks like the snow in the real world.
Title: Re: Highlands
Post by: inkydigit on January 10, 2010, 09:58:24 AM
fantastic progression, i love it!
Title: Re: Highlands
Post by: MacGyver on January 11, 2010, 05:58:25 AM
Quote from: njeneb on January 10, 2010, 08:32:25 AM
It's 1 degree F outside. The snow here is so close to being real it's scary. It looks like the snow in the real world.

That's roughly around -17°C, isn't it? ;D