http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2521863/posts
I have zero tolerance for in your face responses from the religion that inspires hatred and death toward those who reject it.
I'm tired of people who make an amalgam between Muslims, Islam and Islamist jihadists.
Religion causes strief so I oppose but also tollerate religion :(
Richard
Quote from: calico on August 04, 2010, 07:34:19 AMI have zero tolerance for in your face responses from the religion that inspires hatred and death toward those who reject it.
Then stop inspiring hatred against another religion.
Were I a jihadist, I would pray my god that the infidels were really so stupid to play such a fantastic propaganda coup against themselves, making MY propaganda work enormously more believable...
http://cagle.com/working/100802/margulies.jpg
If you are offended by a mosque being close to ground zero, that is like banning churches from everywhere because the priests might molest children.
The actions of few don't speak for all.
Not to mention freedom of religion.
If people built a Christian church there, would that be OK?
Quote from: neuspadrin on August 04, 2010, 01:45:04 PM
http://cagle.com/working/100802/margulies.jpg
The actions of few don't speak for all.
Not to mention freedom of religion.
Seconded.
Although you guys are right with your comments, you need to also show understanding for the people who are signing this petition, as in their real life history, the mosque has become a pain-laden symbol. Their anxiety is real, and who can blame them for it?
I guess this is a wound that takes more time to heal. At this point in time and history, maybe building that mosque at that place isn't such a brilliant idea.
is that some sort of sick joke? ???
god i wish i was born 1000 years in the future :-X
Perhaps a little less Fox News and a little more critical rational thinking is in order...
Not to mention that there has been a mosque near "ground zero" for decades.
Quote from: Rhalph on August 04, 2010, 08:40:46 AMI'm tired of people who make an amalgam between Muslims, Islam and Islamist jihadists.
You get my support on that.
I am living in a country where they burn churches and get away with it.
And my neighboring country they chop off the heads of Christians and Buddhists in the name of their "god".
Quote from: nikita on August 04, 2010, 10:12:34 AMQuote from: calico on August 04, 2010, 07:34:19 AMI have zero tolerance for in your face responses from the religion that inspires hatred and death toward those who reject it.
Then stop inspiring hatred against another religion.
Does church burning count?
Does chopping off the heads of two little Christian students count?
Those happened in the region I live in. And we Christians are constantly being harrassed, constantly.
They even sneaked into our churches and lined up to received the sacraments, and then spit it out, took pictures of the spat out sacraments and then put those pictures in their magazines along with their articles to support their accusations that we Christians are "converting them into Christianity".
It's them who sneaked into our Churches and stole our sacraments. We didn't invite them and we do not convert them because according to local laws it is a big crime.
But all these are happening.
You want to talk about "religious hatred" again?
You have my sympathys Piggy - thats awfull - where on earth do you live? People are different and the further apart they live, the less likely they are not to get on.
@piggy Yes that counts but not building a mosque somewhere in New York will change nothing about it. It will not make the fundamental islamists in your country any better but it will make fundamentalists in the US worse.
Nobody benefits, but the world becomes a worse place.
Quote from: airflamesred on August 04, 2010, 08:27:43 PMYou have my sympathys Piggy - thats awfull - where on earth do you live? People are different and the further apart they live, the less likely they are not to get on.
I live in Malaysia, and neighboring countries are Thailand and Indonesia where they chop off the heads of Buddhists (in Thailand) and Christians (in Indonesia).
Church burnings happen in both Malaysia and Indonesia, and in both countries they also falsely accuse us Christians of "converting them" and then use that to incite riots against us the Christians.
In Pakistan several Christians were kidnapped and then forced into conversion into Islam. Some of the Christians refused and they were beaten to death.
And the worse part is, the perpetrators were never punished. Never.
I could care less about the lack of objectivity some have trying to be "sweet". The reality - the Muslim religion (not other religions, just Muslims) inspire more suicide bombers and thereby kill more human beings by suicide bombings than all other religions combined. Now the audacity of these Muslims is they want to rule the world (another objective fact - arrogance, really) and want to slap a mosque onto the very place their inspired murderers killed U.S. citizens.
Here. Sign another petition - http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/stop911mosque
Sharia be damned.
Pay attention to what's happening or maybe you live in Europe where people concede to Sharia and don't care about true freedom - the Muslim religion will stop at nothing to make you bow down to their way of living and destroy freedom. Muslims own most of the oil resources. Muslims are trying to build a mosque on the very site of a massacre their religion inspired. Read their book. Listen to their "prophet" talk about what should be done to anyone who doesn't believe in their f-ed up "god".
I would swear you all are more afraid than care about real peace.
Quote from: nikita on August 04, 2010, 10:12:34 AM
Quote from: calico on August 04, 2010, 07:34:19 AMI have zero tolerance for in your face responses from the religion that inspires hatred and death toward those who reject it.
Then stop inspiring hatred against another religion.
http://www.humanevents.com/offers/offer.php?id=MSQ100&time=201008042152
http://txlady706.wordpress.com/2010/05/19/petition-from-act-to-stop-the-ground-zero-mosque-911-mosque-at-the-twin-towers-site/
http://www.citizenwarrior.com/2010/07/stop-ground-zero-mosque-petition.html
Quote from: calico on August 04, 2010, 10:56:15 PMI could care less about the lack of objectivity some have trying to be "sweet".
There are indeed too many spots on earth that are trying to be "sweet" and they surrender themselves to that particular blood-thirsty religion.
France is one. England is another. And America will be next.
Quit pot.
Quote from: Rhalph on August 05, 2010, 02:09:20 AMQuit pot.
Yes, quit pot, or they will chop your hands off.
And I am not kidding. http://forums.planetside.co.uk/index.php?topic=10227.0
I was refering to calico's posts.
It's as if I said "stop sending your children to catholic churches, the priests will fuck them".
Seriously, did you ever speak with a Muslim? Not the extremist ones, but the vast majority of other muslims who try to live their religion peacefully and are as horrified as you by what jihadists are doing?
Quote from: Rhalph on August 05, 2010, 02:18:25 AMI was refering to calico's posts.
It's as if I said "stop sending your children to catholic churches, the priests will fuck them".
Seriously, did you ever speak with a Muslim? Not the extremist ones, but the vast majority of other muslims who try to live their religion peacefully and are as horrified as you by what jihadists are doing?
I am not Calico but in my case the answer is a definite YES.
In Malaysia if you throw a stone it most probably will drop on a muslim's head, so yes, I have not only talked to, but have to interact with a lot of muslims, in daily basis.
And I can tell you, from the first hand experience, is that it is very very tiring, as if I have to walk on egg shell every single time.
They can criticize you, they can burn your churches, they can even chop off your head, but you can't and are not allowed to say anything, or else they would use that as an excuse to launch yet another pogrom.
That is the reality for many Christians living in predominant muslim countries.
1. How many Muslims signed the Declaration of Independence?
2. How many nations that are Muslim in nature or directly influenced by the Muslim religion understand and practice freedom or give honor to men and women?
3. How many of the strict Muslim laws that countries from #2 above inspire compassion to help others?
4. Do these laws from #3 reinforce irrational (even blind) devotion to the Qu'ran and prostration to its violent leaders?
5. How many of the top 10 oil producing countries are nations that fit #2 and #4 above?
6. What were the deciding decisions and continual main strife around setting up the Iraqi government?
7. How did (do) the Muslim factions vie for power in Iraq - by force or by reason?
8. How many suicide bombers rationally expressed their beliefs?
9. Does the Sharia law reinforce the country's laws in which the Sharia laws exist or does Sharia law adhere to the Qu'ran?
10. How many uneducated poor Muslims drove planes into the Twin Towers?
11. Genuine devotion to the Qu'ran results in Jihad-ism.
12. Muslim rule is by force; not by rule of law (reason).
13. Sharia law is how the Muslims get the way of the Qu'ran into a country where the laws of the country do not reflect what the Qu'ran teaches.
14. Much of Muslim indoctrination comes by force and not logical discussion.
What I find compelling is that the same emotional political correctness that brought Hitler into power is the same force guiding many who argue that most Muslims are nominal and will not reinforce the prophet Mohammad's direction to despise those who do not trust the Qu'ran's message. The Qu'ran reinforces violence. Watch the news from the last year or the coming year to see how this is moved forward. It will not be by rational argument or objective logic. It will be by lies and violence.
I have Muslim neighbors and we have a friendly relationship.
The Qu'ran gravitates its knowledge to inspire world domination from its believers and hatred toward unbelievers. Genuine devotion to the Qu'ran will result in jihad-ism.
How many Catholic priests do you know that ran into a shopping mall and screamed, "God is Great!" before blowing themselves and 60 other people away?
Quote from: Rhalph on August 05, 2010, 02:18:25 AM
I was refering to calico's posts.
It's as if I said "stop sending your children to catholic churches, the priests will fuck them".
Seriously, did you ever speak with a Muslim? Not the extremist ones, but the vast majority of other muslims who try to live their religion peacefully and are as horrified as you by what jihadists are doing?
Quote from: calico on August 05, 2010, 07:34:02 AM
What I find compelling is that the same emotional political correctness that brought Hitler into power is the same force guiding many who argue that most Muslims are nominal and will not reinforce the prophet Mohammad's direction to despise those who do not trust the Qu'ran's message.
Congratulations for this poor (https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Godwin's_law) post.
Just ask yourself if a Christian Country would be more tolerant than Muslim ones if its law were based on the Bible (the Old Testament is an awesome set of tolerance and love laws).
Is it the religion which is bad or the people using it?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nDMv_M6WWY
If a force so big as USA is doing what he wants what can the small countries do?
Especially when they see such things all the time around them?
Yes guerrilla tactics and the other things they can do...
The fanatics here want a mosque on the Taksim Square (a famous square in Istanbul)...It is a symbol for them .
I don't want this of course.
I don't want to say the same things ones more , but religion is static and intolerant due to its nature ! Some more , some less.
We should aim to make the world religion free. Not only Muslim free!
This will maybe not happen at all ; i know....
Calico i am sorry but you write nearly like a kind of a fanatic too here!
I mostly think the same things as you maybe , but in a more broad way.
I wouldn't want a mosque maybe too there. Not a new one at least.
You are like the one sided speakers on the government supported media.
And there is where you lost my support! The way you write here Calico. This is where i have problem .
It is like the opposite of Jihad ... You are like on a Crusade , Calico!
Otherwise i could sign too!
Before you guys want to comment on Islam you gotta understand that religion first.
Al Quoran is bad enough - it has passages asking for the killings of the infidels - but if you compare it to the Hadiths, there is no comparison.
There are hadiths out there (with followers believing it be the "word of God") plaining demanding the total submission to Islam or death upon those who refuse to do so.
Those who play "sweet" and "cute" with Islam are just naive. They think that Islam is cute, that it is peaceful, that it is an alternative to Christianity.
I am not defending Christianity although I am a Christian myself, but Christianity in its core is compassion, it's a religion from the Heart.
Islam on the other hand is a religion which instill Hatred and Fear as its core. Domination is everything in Islam. Total domination.
But it is not surprising.
The beginning of Christianity came from that one man, Jesus, who believed that the people in his time were doing the wrong things and were blaspheming the good name of God. So he began his total non-violent crusade to change the hearts of his followers - that is why Christianity is the religion of the Heart.
On the other hand Islam came to be when a person felt that something must be done to stop all the confusion that occured in his time. In Mohammad's time the Arabian Peninsular was filled with all types of superficial cults, and there were regular violent crashes amongst the many cults.
Mohammad decided to do something - fight violence with violence, and to instill fear into his enemies so that they will succumb to his might.
The two religions, although based on largely similar Jewish texts, have different aims.
That is why we see that Christianity grew up from its own immaturity (Conquistadores, Spanish Inquisition, Crusades) to today's Christinaity that is largely based on love and compassion.
That is also why we see that Islam is still mired in violence despite its 1500 years of history.
Of course one could argue that Christianity has 500 more years of history that it has more chance to grow up, but even if that is true, 1500 years is still a long long time for some one (or some religion) to grow up.
I am saying what I say based on my own understanding of Christianity (as I am a Christian) and Islam (as I am a resident of an Islamic based country) and although I won't say that I am the foremost expert on both religion, I did devote a lot of my time into understanding these two religions.
Unfortunately most people from the West do not get to have my experience. Their understanding of Islam is so superficial that it is totally ridiculous.
They think that Islam is a religion of peace, they think that because they were TOLD Islam is a religion of peace.
Even if that wasn't true, that was what they were told, and they rather believe that Islam means peace because they project their own religious backgrounds (mainly Christianity derived sects) and think that all religions are the same as Christianity, that all religion are for the benefits of mankind, that all religions strive for peace.
That is simply not true.
If Islam is for peace, why then the Shia can't live peacefully with the Sunnis?
How often do we see full flare violence between the Methodists against the Baptists?
Yes, there are _some_ intra-Christianity violences, Northern Ireland comes to mind, but that is an exception to the rule when we are talking about Christianity in the global sense.
On the other hand, how much violence have flared up in between Islam and other religions? Between different sects of Islam? Between Islam and the rest of the world?
But you Westerners prefer to dream rather than seeing the truth as it is.
Many of you prefer to think that Islam is good because you hope that is good. Many of you still think that you know Islam (based on what you were told) but in actuality you ain't know nothing yet.
At the end of the day, the proof is on the pudding.
Which religion is creating all the havocs all around the world - from China to Russia to Malaysia to the United States of America to Spain to United Kingdom to Nigeria and so on and so forth?
You tell me.
Is it Christianity, or is it Islam?
Quote from: piggy on August 05, 2010, 10:52:20 AM
Before you guys want to comment on Islam you gotta understand that religion first.
Al Quoran is bad enough - it has passages asking for the killings of the infidels - but if you compare it to the Hadiths, there is no comparison.
There are hadiths out there (with followers believing it be the "word of God") plaining demanding the total submission to Islam or death upon those who refuse to do so.
Those who play "sweet" and "cute" with Islam are just naive. They think that Islam is cute, that it is peaceful, that it is an alternative to Christianity.
I am not defending Christianity although I am a Christian myself, but Christianity in its core is compassion, it's a religion from the Heart.
Islam on the other hand is a religion which instill Hatred and Fear as its core. Domination is everything in Islam. Total domination.
But it is not surprising.
The beginning of Christianity came from that one man, Jesus, who believed that the people in his time were doing the wrong things and were blaspheming the good name of God. So he began his total non-violent crusade to change the hearts of his followers - that is why Christianity is the religion of the Heart.
On the other hand Islam came to be when a person felt that something must be done to stop all the confusion that occured in his time. In Mohammad's time the Arabian Peninsular was filled with all types of superficial cults, and there were regular violent crashes amongst the many cults.
Mohammad decided to do something - fight violence with violence, and to instill fear into his enemies so that they will succumb to his might.
The two religions, although based on largely similar Jewish texts, have different aims.
That is why we see that Christianity grew up from its own immaturity (Conquistadores, Spanish Inquisition, Crusades) to today's Christinaity that is largely based on love and compassion.
That is also why we see that Islam is still mired in violence despite its 1500 years of history.
Of course one could argue that Christianity has 500 more years of history that it has more chance to grow up, but even if that is true, 1500 years is still a long long time for some one (or some religion) to grow up.
I am saying what I say based on my own understanding of Christianity (as I am a Christian) and Islam (as I am a resident of an Islamic based country) and although I won't say that I am the foremost expert on both religion, I did devote a lot of my time into understanding these two religions.
Unfortunately most people from the West do not get to have my experience. Their understanding of Islam is so superficial that it is totally ridiculous.
They think that Islam is a religion of peace, they think that because they were TOLD Islam is a religion of peace.
Even if that wasn't true, that was what they were told, and they rather believe that Islam means peace because they project their own religious backgrounds (mainly Christianity derived sects) and think that all religions are the same as Christianity, that all religion are for the benefits of mankind, that all religions strive for peace.
That is simply not true.
If Islam is for peace, why then the Shia can't live peacefully with the Sunnis?
How often do we see full flare violence between the Methodists against the Baptists?
Yes, there are _some_ intra-Christianity violences, Northern Ireland comes to mind, but that is an exception to the rule when we are talking about Christianity in the global sense.
On the other hand, how much violence have flared up in between Islam and other religions? Between different sects of Islam? Between Islam and the rest of the world?
But you Westerners prefer to dream rather than seeing the truth as it is.
Many of you prefer to think that Islam is good because you hope that is good. Many of you still think that you know Islam (based on what you were told) but in actuality you ain't know nothing yet.
At the end of the day, the proof is on the pudding.
Which religion is creating all the havocs all around the world - from China to Russia to Malaysia to the United States of America to Spain to United Kingdom to Nigeria and so on and so forth?
You tell me.
Is it Christianity, or is it Islam?
Do I really need to remind you to remind you of things such as the Inquisition, the Crusades, the collaboration between catholicism and nazism during WWII, etc, etc?
Christianism had its lot of horrors.
It's just than in most countries, Christianism isn't at the head of the country anymore - these countries are now laic (laicist?)
I'd be curious of how many Holy Wars started by christians there would be if they were at the head of a country.
Oh wait, did anyone say "Axis of Evil"? :p
Quote from: piggy on August 05, 2010, 10:52:20 AM
...
I am not defending Christianity although I am a Christian myself, but Christianity in its core is compassion, it's a religion from the Heart.
...
Piggy i understand(at least i try) your position. But this sentence? You are too naive.
Did you think about the politics and the economical state of your country and the world in global?History anyone?
I don't say that everything you say is wrong. But why do people alway look at the things in a basic way?
Look at Afghanistan what do the people have there? Education? Ferraris? HDTVs?
Or do we have here many members from there who participate here on the forum and ask about nodes in TG2?
Yeah right...They don't have much! They have their culture and religion and live a life most of us can barely imagine.
Thus they stick to them. What a pity a little to much of course! And who exploited them and the world until now ?
The West with the help of Christianity ! Right from the Heart of course ;)
"In God we trust "!
I can understand you , but you do not see all of the picture. There are others who could say it in a better way .
But you speak like some of the fanatic Muslims i did know unfortunately!
The strange thing is i can not stand them too (you know this i hope by now). But i can not stand ignorance and one sided standpoints too (no offense) !
Islam = religion
Islamism = politic behavior using Islam to rule people
Rhalph, you can't say inquisition and islamism terrorism is the same thing, Inquisition took place 500 years ago. 500 years ago !!! not today !
and you dislike all the religion, saying that priests rape kids, forbid gay marriage, etc... so I don't truely understand your point of view defending muslims behavior in the countries they rule. Pakistan and Indonesia for example don't seem to be a good place to live in if you're not muslim uh ^^
you are not even allowed to enter the Mecca because you're an infidel ;D
anyway, I think all religions can be good if you take the "good" morale written in their books : don't kill, don't steal, etc... but using any religion as a politic law, that is truely what could bring more death upon humanity.
Muslim still are in 1431 but Islmaists shouldn't act like middle-age inquisitors.
I understand both point of view. I grew up with muslims, I work with a majority of muslims, and I don't see the problem with that.
But I wouldn't like to be ruled by Shariah.
And hell, pork is so gooooood !
There are a lot of Muslims living here, Binghamton NY, now. They are good people.
At least they don't try to convert this old pagan, as some Christians do.
just heard the imam of this mosque on the news in France !!!
sooo... he thinks that USA deserved 911 ?!
Quote from: njeneb on August 05, 2010, 02:11:39 PM
At least they don't try to convert this old pagan, as some Christians do.
converted muslims are not equal to born muslims.
Quote from: Seth on August 05, 2010, 02:18:55 PM
...
converted muslims are not equal to born muslims.
Worser! They are used as good examples like Cat Stevens how good it is !
The opposite doesn't count for some reason :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42p2SO5wQag (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42p2SO5wQag)
Can the rest of us have our planet back? Good rant by Marcus Brigstocke, sums up my feelings quite well.
Richard
Quote from: cyphyr on August 05, 2010, 02:23:52 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42p2SO5wQag (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42p2SO5wQag)
Can the rest of us have our planet back? Good rant by Marcus Brigstocke, sums up my feelings quite well.
Richard
Couldn't understand all of it , but what i could was nice and funny :)
Quote from: cyphyr on August 05, 2010, 02:23:52 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42p2SO5wQag (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42p2SO5wQag)
Can the rest of us have our planet back? Good rant by Marcus Brigstocke, sums up my feelings quite well.
Richard
ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT!!!!! Thanks Richard for sharing this!
Quote from: njeneb on August 05, 2010, 02:11:39 PMThere are a lot of Muslims living here, Binghamton NY, now. They are good people.
At least they don't try to convert this old pagan, as some Christians do.
My answer to you is: "Not Yet !"
Islam's MO is very simple.
When they are the minority they play the peaceful victim role. They live peacefully and piously, setting an example to all that Islam is good.
So much so that many others may join them.
And just when they start to grow and grow and their influence expands leaps and bounds, they start exerting their "rights", like their "rights to Sharia laws" - as in what is happening in England right now.
Then they will say that their women have the right to cover their whole body like a mummy, in open spaces - even though that means they could hide weapons and bombs and nobody would ever notice it.
Any reaction - like the one in France, for example - in restricting the so called "muslims' rights", they will cry foul.
That's the 2nd step.
And when their power grows some more they start to have control power, the 3rd step begins.
They will impose Sharia laws, first on muslims only, and then they start impose it on non-muslims, step by tiny step, taking away the rights of the non-muslims.
That is happening in Malaysia where I stay (late 3rd step/early 4th step), and it is happening (1st step) in America, (2nd step) in England, (2nd step) in France, (2nd to 3rd step) in Italy, (early 3rd step) in Spain and many other Western countries.
BTW, do you know that in Spain the muslims demand that the Catholics "return" to them a Cathedral so that they can make it a mosque?
The muslims' claim is simple: It was a mosque before the Catholics turned it into a Church.
But the same muslims forgot something - before the mosque was a mosque, it was a Church !
That Cathedral began its life as a Church, and when the Moors attacked and conquered Spain they (the Moors) turned that Church into a mosque. After the Moors were defeated the Catholics turned that building back into a Cathedral.
Now the muslims are demanding that the "mosque" is theirs.
Can you believe that? And yes, it is happening, in Spain, Europe.
It's an early sign of their "3rd step".
As much as I dislike religions - what you have written is just a conspiracy theory.
Of course, muslims are upset when you force them to act against their religion. You'd be angry too if someone would interfere with your religion like that. That's no step in a plan for world domination - it's called freedom of religion. A freedom designed to prevent exactly the shit you are in right now.
Of course, the best thing would be not to have religion in the first place but for now we have to deal with it.
I have to go by the people I know. I don't like stereotypes.
I don't like people right off. It takes time to get to know them. Then I decide if I can stand them.
The Muslim people I have met here have been decent and hard working. Most are well educated and well informed. I know many Americans who are neither. (And they have college degrees; how I do not know. I guess ignorance isn't limited to the under-educated.)
Quote from: nikita on August 05, 2010, 08:14:11 PMAs much as I dislike religions - what you have written is just a conspiracy theory.
Of course, muslims are upset when you force them to act against their religion. You'd be angry too if someone would interfere with your religion like that. That's no step in a plan for world domination - it's called freedom of religion. A freedom designed to prevent exactly the shit you are in right now.
Of course, the best thing would be not to have religion in the first place but for now we have to deal with it.
It was the muslims who sneaked into the Church, stole our sacraments, took pictures of the spat out sacraments and then post them in their magazine to support their lies that "Christians are converting muslims", which the Christians will never do because the local laws strictly forbid anyone messing with the muslims.
The same law that forbids anyone messing with the muslims allows the muslims to mess with anybody else they want.
Now who is in the conspiracy theory business? The Christians or the muslims?
Did the Christians sneak into their mosque and stole whatever that is significant to their religion and then took picture and post them in their Christian magazine and make false claims?
Did the Christians do all that?
The muslims are carrying out all those dastard acts and yet you are saying that I am in the consipracy theory business. No wonder the West is falling to the hands of Islam.
I do not want to post very gory pictures in this board, I will only post news summary and the links.
See for yourself what Islam is capable of doing:
Indonesia: 3 Christian girls beheaded
Bandits beheaded the girls as they walked to school. One of the heads was left outside a church.
https://www.christianpost.com/article/20051029/three-teenage-christian-schoolgirls-beheaded-in-indonesia/index.html
Attacks on Christian churches increasing in modern, moderate Indonesia
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/07/attacks-on-christian-churches-increasing-in-modern-moderate-indonesia.html
MUSLIM STUDENTS' RACIAL SLURS against UK Christian teacher get TEACHER fired
http://barenakedislam.wordpress.com/2009/07/18/muslim-students-racial-slurs-against-uk-christian-teacher-get-teacher-fired/
Piggy, a lot of your opinion comes from your time in Malaysia, which is quite a different atmosphere culturally, religion, and politically. The main issue of this article is that it is happening in the USA where freedom of religion is right there in our Bill of Rights (the very first one, tied with freedom of speech). Being bias against a religion by LAW in our country is illegal. Even if someone who was Muslim came in and did horrible things.
It's unfortunate these things happen anywhere in the world, but many countries out there have huge issues that happen in them based off any number of things. Malaysia's atmosphere is a lot different from that of others, and when you are born into those cultures and that's all you've ever known then it's hard to get them to change. I used to live minutes away from Malaysia in Singapore and it was completely different even though they are so close. Many Muslims I knew there were kind, helpful, caring people. Same here in the USA. And here in the US there is plenty of religious bias and horrible things Christians do based off their religion. Yet their are also plenty of nice and lovely people who are also Christian.
But we really should keep to the issue of what this topic is talking about with this thread, concentrated for here in the USA as that is where it is happening. Going to a global scale of religions would just cause an explosion of any argument possible. The world is filled with horrible things.
Also no offense but your links are quite biased, even just based off their domain names. I could probably find plenty of Christians doing horrible things against other religions just as easily. Or any religion doing anything bad. Hell here in the US there are plenty of school aged children who would gladly tell you they want to kill all Muslims, and their teachers WON'T correct them as they believe the same thing. Hell there are people out there who think Obama is a secret Muslim sneaking in to take over the world because of his name.
Quote from: nikita on August 05, 2010, 08:14:11 PM
Of course, the best thing would be not to have religion in the first place but for now we have to deal with it.
This has just been in my head almost all of the reading of this thread ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okd3hLlvvLw
I don't see this going anywhere productive guys, those who believe and those who don't will both be stubborn on issues like this, and I believe most of the members here see/understand the other side, but still will stick to theirs.
Yes this issue could be seen as a huge offense to the victims and the country, but at the same time it is also a violation of the freedom of religion our country believes in while also stereotyping an entire religion as extremists based off the actions of a few.
Lets keep the forum civil and move on.
I second that.
You are welcome to continue your denial. It's your life. It's your country. It's the future of your children anyway.
If you think that just because the links I provided are from some biased website the stories aren't true, please go ask the parents of the 3 Indonesian Christians girls whose head got chopped off by the muslims.
See if just because the story of their beheading was carried by website that are "biased" to your opinion, and to you, the story must be untrue, let us hope and pray that the 3 Christian girls were not beheaded and they should be fine and alive today.
God Bless.
Quote from: neuspadrin on August 05, 2010, 09:57:11 PMPiggy, a lot of your opinion comes from your time in Malaysia, which is quite a different atmosphere culturally, religion, and politically. The main issue of this article is that it is happening in the USA where freedom of religion is right there in our Bill of Rights (the very first one, tied with freedom of speech). Being bias against a religion by LAW in our country is illegal. Even if someone who was Muslim came in and did horrible things.
It's unfortunate these things happen anywhere in the world, but many countries out there have huge issues that happen in them based off any number of things. Malaysia's atmosphere is a lot different from that of others, and when you are born into those cultures and that's all you've ever known then it's hard to get them to change. I used to live minutes away from Malaysia in Singapore and it was completely different even though they are so close. Many Muslims I knew there were kind, helpful, caring people. Same here in the USA. And here in the US there is plenty of religious bias and horrible things Christians do based off their religion. Yet their are also plenty of nice and lovely people who are also Christian.
But we really should keep to the issue of what this topic is talking about with this thread, concentrated for here in the USA as that is where it is happening. Going to a global scale of religions would just cause an explosion of any argument possible. The world is filled with horrible things.
Also no offense but your links are quite biased, even just based off their domain names. I could probably find plenty of Christians doing horrible things against other religions just as easily. Or any religion doing anything bad. Hell here in the US there are plenty of school aged children who would gladly tell you they want to kill all Muslims, and their teachers WON'T correct them as they believe the same thing. Hell there are people out there who think Obama is a secret Muslim sneaking in to take over the world because of his name.
Quote from: nikita on August 05, 2010, 08:14:11 PM
Of course, the best thing would be not to have religion in the first place but for now we have to deal with it.
This has just been in my head almost all of the reading of this thread ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okd3hLlvvLw
I don't see this going anywhere productive guys, those who believe and those who don't will both be stubborn on issues like this, and I believe most of the members here see/understand the other side, but still will stick to theirs.
Yes this issue could be seen as a huge offense to the victims and the country, but at the same time it is also a violation of the freedom of religion our country believes in while also stereotyping an entire religion as extremists based off the actions of a few.
Lets keep the forum civil and move on.
We're happy to see non-TG discussion here, after all we made a board for it. But there has been an increasing amount of religious and political discussion, which quite frankly is almost always problematic and tends to cause rifts and emotional reactions. We have no desire to censor our community, but threads like this are increasingly in need of moderation. Please consider whether it might be better to discuss these things elsewhere in a place more suited to the subject. We'd like the focus here to remain on terragen and landscape rendering in general.
Thanks,
Oshyan
It's especially at risk of causing rifts and getting emotional when people start to become missionary about their point of views and attack the point of view of others.
If we all can refrain from that, we will probably continue to have very interesting discussions that remain not too emotional. I for one like to learn about the point of view of others, even if I don't agree. Just don't get on a mission to convert others to your POV, and we'll be fine, I guess.
Regards,
Frank
May I stress that the one making all the attacks is not me.
As a Christian living in a predominantly muslim country, I am used to those kind of attacks, in the hands of the muslims, every single day.
They can say whatever they want. They can deny anything and everything - and they always do - but that will never take away the fact that they have done a lot of very very, shall I say, things that are "not nice".
They can continue to lie to the world that their religion is a "peaceful" religion, those of us who are being victimized by it know better.
What I said in this thread I based them on facts. Not a single thing was fabricated.
I said them because I need to tell the world what Islam really is.
Many of you in the Western countries do not know the true face of Islam. Whatever you know is whatever you have been told - often by them - and many of you believe that.
I wouldn't want what is happening to us to happen to you in the future.
In our case - like in Malaysia - our fate is sealed. They have become the majority and they get to apply any rule any law they want on us with impunity.
In your case it is different. You guys still have a chance - a chance to deny them their domination of your beloved countries.
For the sake of your children, do not ever give up your country for a lie.
Quote from: FrankB on August 06, 2010, 04:32:24 AMIt's especially at risk of causing rifts and getting emotional when people start to become missionary about their point of views and attack the point of view of others.
QuoteFor the sake of your children, do not ever give up your country for a lie.
I know what you mean ...
A certain religion forced itself upon my country two thousand or so years ago, (and is still doing so). During one particularly viscious episode lasting about 100 years over 9 million men, women' and children were put to death in the name of their so called loving God. Nowadays that self same religion is responsible for the continuing persecuaton and intollerance of anyone who dose not conform to their narrow belief system.
I wont name that religion as its dogmas are not that differant to a great many other monotheistic faiths but sufice to say this is my main reason for avoiding all religions and particularly the self elected evangalists of said religions. One point of note, pan-theistic spirituality seems to be more tollerant to other points of view than mono-theistic ones.
Richard
This is my last post about this topic here.
http://www.ornery.org/essays/2006-08-15-1.html
I want to add one last thing Piggy ! The members who reads here have maybe some point of view of my country .
As i do have about USA or your Country etc. But how true are these?
I have enough problems to see my country as a whole...
Here where i live in the west part there aren't much problems related to religion and other things as in the east part.
As you go from west to east it changes so drastic . Everything . The culture the practice in religion ; politic etc.
In the west there isn't a problem that girls aren't allowed to go to the school . But in the east there is a campaign to urge the families to allow their girls for schooling .
Can you think this in this age?
In the east is still blood feud , despite that it is getting less and less in time. Such a thing like blood feud here in the west is unheard of!
In the west you can find many places to drink and eat in the holy month (Ramazan) .
But in the east there are such places you are out of luck and it is not looked with good eyes!
Most people who do not know our country think mostly about us as the east part ! And when they see our west part they are surprised !
Why do i write this? I think you understand. Do you think that Islam is practiced in the same way here?. NO! There are so much other influences .
Do you know what ; if your people or the other (mostly undereducated) people in the Muslim worlds did believe in zeus or what not , they would be doing nearly the same things still !
Sorry dears, Islam is not THE problem, it's ONE of the problems. Let's see...
Islam: head/nose/hand cutting 72 virgins-seekers.
Christianity/Orthodoxy: making that spineless bastard called Nicholas II saint??? supporting a regime which did keep farmers as slaves up to little more than 150 years ago?
Christianity/Catholicism: for more info please refer to Mr. Torquemada. Oh, remember to wear armoured underwear to prevent illegal accesses...
Christianity/Protestantism: for more info and an appropriate amount of rope, refer to Mr. Matthews Hopkins.
Judaism: we are the choosen ones, all the others to the ovens... sorry, this is ANOTHER cult ;D yet... it works almost in the same way, amusing isn't it?
Hinduism: lovers from different castes? let's straiten things... by hanging them.
Buddishm: Pre-1950 Tibet was a place where monastries held farmers as medieval serfs. So much for the four noble truths.
Shintoism: Worshipping almost like gods war criminals rightly hanged for their deeds?
... I could go on.
Religion is THE problem; the only way out for our species would be the TOTAL annihilation of anything even remotely looking like religion and this is not going to happen. One day, in the name of a god which does exists as much as Santa Claus, somebody will unleash a nuclear or biological attack and it will be curtains down for Homo Sapiens. Now you know one answer to the question "why haven't we got evidence from extraterrestrial civilizations?". They did themselves in like we will do.
Quote from: latego on August 06, 2010, 02:21:04 PM
Religion is THE problem; the only way out for our species would be the TOTAL annihilation of anything even remotely looking like religion
Sorry dear. How can you annihilate a concept, a belief, or any other mental construct come to that? Human beings with their capacity for mental creativity dream up things like gods, religions, nations, social and political systems, fashion, football etc. It's what we do; it's our modus operandi. So if anything is THE PROBLEM (as you put it) it's the sentient beings who create all this mind stuff including the belief systems called religions. That's right, we are the problem, not the stuff we think up. And you may be right in saying we are going to blow ourselves to kingdom come. But I hope you don't "believe" in continuing Big Bang cycles of expanding and contracting universes 'cos sentient life forms will probably be a part of every one of those future universes and we (sentient creatures) are gonna have to go through this shit all over again, and again, and again ad infinitum.
I only hope that you can learn to laugh before the shit hits the fan. ;D
with regards
from Life (momentarily expressing itself as John Robertson, among other impermanent forms)
Quote from: schmeerlap on August 06, 2010, 07:07:15 PM
But I hope you don't "believe" in continuing Big Bang cycles of expanding and contracting universes 'cos sentient life forms will probably be a part of every one of those future universes and we (sentient creatures) are gonna have to go through this shit all over again, and again, and again ad infinitum.
If Hinduist cosmology is anything near reality (and recent astronomical/physic findings make it uneasingly likelier, see Kadri posts related to the holographic universe)... we are ALL hamsters on a big wheel... running on it until we will find the way to get out, probably following the teachings of a certain indian prince who lived 2500 years ago and who taught a PHILOSOPHY, not a RELIGION.
Bye...
When North Korea will nuke us all, we'll all see in which paradise or hell we'll meet ;D
Quote from: latego on August 07, 2010, 01:13:10 AM
. . . . . until we will find the way to get out, probably following the teachings of a certain indian prince who lived 2500 years ago and who taught a PHILOSOPHY, not a RELIGION.
Bye...
As long as you treat what the Buddha taught as a "philosophy" or a "religion" you're still in follower mode running your ass off on that big karmic wheel of life, and getting nowhere. The guy basically gave us an instruction manual. And you may not like this, pal, but he's telling you that you don't really exist. As long as you think you do exist as a separate self (as a "me" apart from "others out there") you're still in a state of ignorance which you haven't snapped out of yet. It gets worse; there aint no permanent universal Big Self (Atman) either like a big welcoming cushion to fall into when you kick the bucket. Life is an ever changing flux of impermanent forms. You don't have to believe that, you're witnessing it first hand 24/7. The only way out for your anthropomorphic hamster is to have it leap off its "big wheel", taking the plunge, lemming like into a truth that doesn't accommodate fools who think they know what they are talking about.
You may be familiar with what is written in the Tao Te Ching: "The Tao that can be spoken is not the real Tao".
Perhaps we should all take that hint and call it a day.
Quote from: schmeerlap on August 07, 2010, 06:21:32 AM
As long as you treat what the Buddha taught as a "philosophy" or a "religion" you're still in follower mode running your ass off on that big karmic wheel of life, and getting nowhere. The guy basically gave us an instruction manual. And you may not like this, pal, but he's telling you that you don't really exist. As long as you think you do exist as a separate self (as a "me" apart from "others out there") you're still in a state of ignorance which you haven't snapped out of yet. It gets worse; there aint no permanent universal Big Self (Atman) either like a big welcoming cushion to fall into when you kick the bucket. Life is an ever changing flux of impermanent forms. You don't have to believe that, you're witnessing it first hand 24/7. The only way out for your anthropomorphic hamster is to have it leap off its "big wheel", taking the plunge, lemming like into a truth that doesn't accommodate fools who think they know what they are talking about.
You may be familiar with what is written in the Tao Te Ching: "The Tao that can be spoken is not the real Tao".
Perhaps we should all take that hint and call it a day.
Dear schmeerlap, you are bulldozing down an open door ;D ;D ;D; I myself use the "instruction manual" metaphor.
Just one correction: a philosophy is NOT a religion. A philosophy a logical scheme which can be discussed, analyzed, taken apart and checked. A religion is "it is so because one day I woke up and wrote a book of revelations and if you don't believe accordingly you are a sinner and must be exterminated"-thing. Nothing even remotely like a philosophy.
Last, if anybody wants to see a textbook example of less-is-more, check Zen. Moo...
Quote from: latego on August 07, 2010, 01:02:48 PM
Just one correction: a philosophy is NOT a religion.
Show me where I said it was. (and you don't have to keep shouting; I'm not deaf). I do actually know the difference between philosophy and religion.
But you are probably aware that philosophy and philosophers can be misrepresented (just as religions can) by opportunistic politicians promoting their own agendas. Nietzsche and several fascist movements, including National Socialism is a case in point.
If you are just a "swinging door" (Shunryu Suzuki), you should have the spiritual maturity to remain detached and not go around berating believers in religion.
If you want to respond further, do so by private message, as I'm quite sure others are getting pissed off with this.
Peace and tolerance to all. I have always been fascinated by the human experience.
Good karma to my terragen buds!
Yes, goodwill to all.
Let them build a mosque somewhere else.
The issue is that people with Muslim money want the mosque on the same place where their Muslim counterparts murdered US citizens. That's different - it's a reflection on the Muslim mindset to make people bow to their intimidation that they are really good guys, after all, and it is especially in poor taste for those whose family and friends were murdered by those from that same religion. That is nonsense.
Quote from: neuspadrin on August 05, 2010, 09:57:11 PM
The main issue of this article is that it is happening in the USA where freedom of religion is right there in our Bill of Rights (the very first one, tied with freedom of speech). Being bias against a religion by LAW in our country is illegal. Even if someone who was Muslim came in and did horrible things.
And in the mindset of all things concerning graphics and pixels and stuff, could we also respect "freedom FROM religion", and respectfully - just move on.
To respect many of the same people whose family members and friends have been massively executed by religious fanatics, a better way to show respect would be to do something about it. Nominalism sucks.
I don't know anything about this person Hamid, but this makes sense -
After the problem of Ground Zero Mosque has escalated it becomes an urgent necessity to distinguish 'Moderate' from 'Radical' Islam. Without making such a distinction the US and the rest of the world will remain divided regarding this issue. Debates about the issue can be endless unless we define the words 'radical' and 'moderate'.
Mosque leaders, Islamic scholars, and organizations who want to be considered Moderates MUST clearly and unambiguously declare the following declaration in their media outlets and on their websites.
I suggest that you send this declaration to Mosque leaders and the Islamic organizations inside the US and worldwide to see if they are ready to accept such a declaration or not.
Please feel free to circulate this newsletter so that we can start a process that allows us to distinguish radical from moderate Islam.
Declaration of Beliefs of Muslim Moderates -
I (We) are Muslims who want contemporary understandings of Islam to replace currently predominant harsh and radical (Salafi/Wahabbi) interpretations of our religion. We therefore declare that:
1- Redda Law, the Sharia Law that allows the killing of Muslims who convert to other faiths, must be banned in Islamic teachings and in Sharia legal doctrine. Islamic countries that practice Sharia must stop the practice of this law and must admit that Freedom of belief and the right to convert to other faith or believe is a basic right that must be given to all Muslims.
2- Current mainstream Sharia doctrines justify the use of violence against women. They encourage men to beat their wives to discipline them. They allow women accused of adultery to be stoned to death. These doctrines are barbarically inhumane, non-egalitarian, and teach Muslim children to be violent. These teachings must be ended by reinterpreting the Islamic text that justifies such violence.
3- Traditional Sharia doctrines teach Muslims that they must engage in war so that Islam will dominate the world. When Islam becomes dominant, Non-Muslims are offered three options: to convert to Islam, to pay Jizzia (a humiliating tax), or to be killed. These doctrines run contrary to modern respect for diversity and for personal freedom of speech and belief. This understanding of Jihad that seeks domination of Islam over other peoples must no longer be regarded as an Islamic value and its teaching as a duty for Muslims must end.
The early Islamic wars known as "Futohaat Islameia" were fought to implement this doctrine of Jihad. These wars therefore should now be regarded as un-Islamic and un-justifiable.
4- Jews are individuals who deserve the same respect accorded to all individuals. They should not be called "pigs and monkeys." The Islamic teaching that Muslims must fight and kill all Jews before the end of days is totally incorrect and unacceptable as it does not exist in the Quran. All teachings that encourage anti-Semitic attitudes, violence or disrespect toward Jews must be declared un-Islamic.
5- Slavery is a crime against humanity. All Sharia laws that justify slavery in our modern times must not be taught any more. Muslim scholars must have a clear and loud voice against slavery.
6- Islamic Sharia laws currently permit the killing homosexuals. These laws also are advocating a crime against our fellow human beings. They must be declared un-Islamic and their implementation must be considered criminal.
Signed,
Dr. Tawfik Hamid
What about taking it more open and everyone has to sign it?
1 - No People or Organization or State is allowed to kill anyone.
2 - The Universal Declaration of Human Rights must be followed by every People or Organization or State.
3 - Public international law must be followed by every People or Organization or State.
More simple. ;)
But think about the implementation of this laws for the US. The US Government should already follow this laws, but doesn't.
edit: And, of course, the rule of law.
QuoteBut think about the implementation of this laws for the US. The US Government should already follow this laws, but doesn't.
I'm biting my tongue from page 1 of this thread. I will continue to, in large.
The Government knows that religion creates war, the perfect scapegoat for war is a god you don't understand, or, are even ALLOWED to accept, due to your own faith! Perfect! 8)
As Westerner's hate continues to grow for the Muslim religion, even in such distant places of the World as the Terragen forum, our governments are happy-campers. Because, you've bought it.
"No returns but, do come again". Again.
That's all from me in here. Peace and love!
Let us render,
...
...
...
Amen. :-*
Sounds good to me. But, what happens to people who deciding killing is something they want to keep doing? Do we jettison them into space?
Quote from: Goms on August 16, 2010, 01:31:29 PM
What about taking it more open and everyone has to sign it?
1 - No People or Organization or State is allowed to kill anyone.
2 - The Universal Declaration of Human Rights must be followed by every People or Organization or State.
3 - Public international law must be followed by every People or Organization or State.
More simple. ;)
But think about the implementation of this laws for the US. The US Government should already follow this laws, but doesn't.
edit: And, of course, the rule of law.
Quote from: calico on August 16, 2010, 02:36:19 PM
Sounds good to me. But, what happens to people who deciding killing is something they want to keep doing? Do we jettison them into space?
We use laws under the rule of law to judge them.
But in order to be allowed to do this, we need to do better.
Forbidding a group of people to build their church is the wrong way, as the freedom of religion is a human right.
If people decide "killing is something they want to keep doing" in another country, we need the UN to give a mandate to stop this.
I think the way of the categorical imperative is the only way to get our world working in a few hundred years.
If you want to be able to build your church, allow others to.
If you want to be respected and not persecuted, respect others.
Enough and everything spoken from my side; respect others. :)
Aren't these guys just so SWEET?
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/17/world/asia/17stoning.html?_r=2&th&emc=th
This is too good not to share:
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4093/4902167154_98f15e02da_z.jpg)
What it is - http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/17/world/asia/17stoning.html?_r=2&th&emc=th
What people act like it is - http://www.biblebureau.com/images/Charities-BibleBureau-Copyright.jpg