I have been exploring the newest Beta-Releases of Groboto the last days and started to model again.
This is a work in progress. Modeling some armatures for another project, I went for an adapted workflow - Groboto and TG2 do not really work hand in hand. Most times I am able to import the meshes into blender, adding the materials. Sometimes this did not work. More information on Groboto's forums.
Thanx for viewing and critiques ,-)
Volker
Looks very, err "armature-ish" ;)
Seriously though an interesting start and a good model, I'll be watching where this one goes. The armatures do look very convincing in a scifi sort of way. I've tried Groboto models before my self with very limited success due to a combination of wont load/desperately long renders/screwed up textures/massive file sizes. I'll check out some time if I can replicate your workflow and success.
:)
Richard
What no landscape! I really like this
Volker, excellent and really cool. Wish we could raytrace and bump... I know TG2 is not a general purpose rendering tool (but it damn well should be).
How big is the object??? Your answer will determine if I buy the program (for about what it takes to fill up a tank of gas). It looks like it could be a very handy tool -- looks like you are have great fun with it.
Thanks for the comments :)
In fact you really need the time to watch the few tutorials to get a hang to Groboto. But now it is fun ... my imagination is faster than my drawing, modelling capabilities, though ,-)
I do not recall oversized files. The attached image shows the raw-model which is 75K on the hard-drive. The exported mesh was approx. 20K Polygons.
Well, I tuned it in my 30day trial of Mudbox which sized the mesh of the above rendered model to 750k Polys - triangulated it in Blender and gave it some materials. Size of the detailed model is 95 MB. Mudbox is responsible for the ridges along the edges of the armatures.
@Piet: The tiny bumps on the mesh are displacements of a Powerfractal inside TG2.
P.S.: The general idea of this armature is inspired by the works of Philip Drawbridge from 2004. Yet this model is just to get myself inspired how to join parts together in a useful way ...
I like the surfacing, was this procedural?
Quote from: inkydigit on February 18, 2011, 05:32:10 AM
I like the surfacing, was this procedural?
Yes, I used the same set of my standard PFs for the colour function, the reflectivity function and displacement function. Reflectivity was set to 1, Refraction index is 3. Displacement was set to 0.03.
The model has 5 different materials, but for laziness I used the same default shader for all of them ,-)
thanks Volker...I am even more impressed!!#
:)
Thanks Inky ,-)
@Richard + Piet:
Right now I come to a point where posing the model is a hazard ... the Botty is breaking up.
Well Groboto is a Beta ... still it is a bit disappointing.
I will continue building up the model - unposed - and hope for a bugfix from Braidart.
Have fun, Volker
Well, for the above posted bug, there is a workaround ... and Braidart is going to release a fix within the next days :D
For this render ... just another concept ... only shoulders, arms and neck ... no head, torso no hands, legs ...
I have the final scene in mind and I am going for it ... the lighting in the render comes very close to my imagination
Thanks for viewing and critiques,
salam Volker Harun
Volker, your work with this is inspirational!!
I've had really bad luck. I bought the thing yesterday. I bought the Apple version by mistake but it only cost 40. Then I had to pay 70 to get the Window version. I left one post, but the admins have not approved it. The post was me whining that I didn't have the privilege to see the jpg attachments on the site (which also hadn't been fixed). I'm hoping this is all an indication that they are busy working hard on the next release!
I did play with the primitives and tried to make an arm similar to what you've got. Using it for that by itself is pretty cool, but I wish it had tighter controls - I guess I haven't learned how to keep them centered as I add the next piece (I try to move them into place manually). I'm assuming I have to learn to "grow" the next piece on centered and then slide it up or whatever. Anyway, strangely, I am now better at blender than what I was before because I tried to do the same stuff using that software.
Anyway, did not mean to steal your thread here, these mechanical arms of yours in the mist look really, really cool!!!
with Inky's brass! I added pieces one at a time and then right clicked and made them "go home", and then I moved them up and down the Y axis to maintain symmetry. Volker, How do keep pieces so tightly centered in relation to each other (since you can't specify coordinates and must move them around by hand)? I figured out how to use blender to make mtl and different shading groups (but did not do it this time). Am very curious how you control where you put the pieces so well.
I'm ready to shelf the software in frustration, but I know that you know something that I don't know (well, about 42 millions things actually). Sorry to thread bust, Groboto is frustrating because of some of the easy modeling potential that it has. It's potentially like putting together FischerTechnik pieces. Have to figure out how to make own primitives too, that could be useful.
Hi Piet,
do not worry about worry about posting your experiences with Groboto ... on TV, the 'next Top Model' shows have more than one model, too, don't they ,-)
What you described is just like the frustration I had half a year ago ... as I came to a point where neither inspiriation nor playing with the software gave satisfying results. But I am glad that I might be able to help you and others. In fact, I restarted GroBoto one week ago to build up nice shapes. Shapes to be modeled within sculptris. But now I am going for direct building up in Groboto ,-)
Try to build up your model as much lined up as possible. The Y-axis is the models length, the Z-axis is its depth. Anything like arms, legs tentacles should be placed along the X-axis, as you can mirror these easily. Your approach with 'Send Object Home' is most times sufficient, but I follow another way:
1. In the Object list, right click the Prim and choose from 'Place at world center' or 'Place at selection center'
2. I prefer the second one, as the new object jumps right into place where I want it.
For example, I have two parallel Cylinders ... quite long (like tubes), next to each other. And I want them to be somehow connected:
1. Drop one Cylinder at world center and scale it to your needs.
2. Shift it along the X-axis, right click it and do a 'Duplicate and mirror object'
3. Select both cylinders and place a Box-Prim into this selections center.
At this point the selections' center will be world center, but think of any situation where the pair of cylinders is way off the center ,-) Look at my model's shoulder area, how I connected the tubes in the center portion. I modeled it separately, and saved it as a Prim (Folder Primitives). Later I sent it into the scene using the 'Selection Center' thingy ,-)
What I like about Groboto to let loose from coordinates, just building up in a fluent progress. Sometimes, when building my own primes I would like to have coordinates, but. There are other ways to get perfect symmetry - but I am sometimes too lazy ,-).
By the way, I bought accidentally the windows version, while using a Mac ,-) The people at Braidart have some happy days ,-)
The admins normally react quite fast (weekdays) ... so keep on hoping! Bad thing is that you got the Mac-serial already ... you might be able to sell it on the free market, I guess.
Have fun and keep on posting ... I do not mind.
Volker
P.S.: I am going to post a small workflow later this day.
Great lighting, Volker! Really well done!
And your procedural textures are outstanding!
Cheers,
Frank
gonna look at this groboto thingy now
Thanks Frank ... very much appreciated ,-) It is good to know, that there are that you did not critique ... these are the same I am going to improve :)
@Piet and anybody interested:
A simple workflow - images form top-left to bottom-right - in every image the Z-axis is showing to you, X to the right, Y to the left (with a little rotation) - world center is almost in the middle of any image:
01. Placing a Hyperrod Barrel at the world's center
02. Placing a Cylinder at world's center and scaling it a bit
03. Adjusting the Cap depth and Neck radius of the Hyperrod
04. Moving both along the X-axis off center
05. Duplicate and mirror objects
06. Adding a Hyperrod Barrel at the world's center
07. Turning this Hyperrod, scaling it, adjusting Neck radius and Cap depth
08. Rotated all 90° around the Z-axis, adjusted length of the cylinders, moved the red armatures along the X-axis off center and did a Duplicate and mirror of the red objects
09. Duplicated the middle Hyperrod and rotated it, adjusting size
10. Rotated everything 90° around Y-axis, moved the objects along the X-axis off center. Duplicated and mirrored those red ducts
11. Selected the two, small Hyperrods, which are facing each other. Used 'Selection Center' to add a cylinder. Rotated and scaled it.
12. Added a few gimmicks and rendered within Groboto.
I hope that this helps a bit ,-) Else, I can only advice you to watch the videos about modeling. The Snap-functions are really handy. And it is good to know, how to rotate objects around each other ...
Regards,
Volker
Edit: The bug mentioned a few posts before has just been fixed with a new release ... ,-)
I knew you would catch this meaning somehow ;)
I really like this image, but I cannot critique on the object. It's cool somehow, but also yet without an obvious purpose, plus I am as experienced in CG modeling as an average cow might be in sudoku, so what the heck do I know about it ;)
Cheers,
Frank
Thank you very much for sharing that work flow. I believe you have saved my a month of struggle!
arggg.. minor frustrations. Went to help to see the splash screen to find version number and the program froze. (Running windows 2.9.9). Did most of the above with success. I was having a question and then spotted the snap ability (so that I could force rotation to 90 degrees). The only problem that I am having is that I wish that you could select a bunch of primitives (which you can), but the control which of the primitives has the hot spot, so that when you center the group, the hot spot item goes to the world center (so that you could then easily add on at that point). I wonder if the Apple version is more advanced (I use send object home, but don't see a "selection center" - but I'm thinking send object home was what you meant). I'm thinking I need to play with "build single match" - maybe that is how to do it. I'm close!!
Hi Piet,
go to the 'Window' menu (maybe Beta-menu) and open the modeling panel - flex and snap.
Enable snap, center.
Place a small sphere at the world's center, I colour it red.
Now select your model, keep the sphere deselected (CTRL-A then A on the sphere)
Press i.e. X on the move panel.
Move your mouse on the object of your model, that is supposed to be at the world's center, click and drag the mouse to the sphere. As soon as you touch the sphere, your model is snapped to its center ... based on the object you touched with the mouse when starting the drag ,-)
I am off for business the next 24h .... have fun! ,-)
Volker
Voker, if you have a sec, I am slowly getting better at this. (I think the key word is slowly, but never the less).
How did you get the tombstone like flat arm things? I couldn't figure out how you got the primitives to do that!!
Piet
Hey Piet,
good start ... before answering your question ... I see that you use the bevelled cylinders, which look nicer than the standard ones. You ought to know that they will be exported as standard cylinders, though. You can choose the amount of bevel, rounded edge loops while exporting.
I doubt that it matters due to the size of the current model. But on a complex scene, the bevelled prims can draw your system's performance down.
For the plates I use boolean clusters ,-) ... See attached image.
Volker ... :D
Nothing special,
just playing with some boolean techniques - and different shading in TG2. I am disgusted by the structural bones' surface shader ... but for a WIP it is fair enough.
Regards,
Volker
Loving all this Volker. I really like the texturing you put on your models...
...which leads me to asking, can you get PFs to work on your textures in TG?
Quote from: Hetzen on March 03, 2011, 03:48:23 PM
Loving all this Volker. I really like the texturing you put on your models...
...which leads me to asking, can you get PFs to work on your textures in TG?
Hello Jon,
thanks for your kind words :)
I import the models into Blender, select the Polygroups which were imported from Groboto and add a simple coloured map to this selection.
Importing this mod into TG2 and recolouring the models PFs is the final step. I do not use UVed texture maps.
There is somewhere a PF-tutorial I made in late 2007 or early 2008. The wings' PFs are based on this method. Maybe I have even posted the clip file there (Large shaders) or in another of those old threads (I can remember to have called it the 'One for All'-Shader ,-) )
This PF is set to the wings' Colour-, Translucency- and Displacement-functions.
Volker
P.S.: There seems to an example hanging around here: (Hotfile) http://hotfile.com/dl/105772249/a2fd6e7/Botty_1-01e_posedBlend.tgo.zip.html (http://hotfile.com/dl/105772249/a2fd6e7/Botty_1-01e_posedBlend.tgo.zip.html)
Thing is Volker, we had a thread trying to get PFs to work in the materials networks, and I've never been able to get them to work on a PC. You're working on a Mac. So I wonder if there's a bug somewhere.
Quote from: Hetzen on March 03, 2011, 04:08:45 PM
Thing is Volker, we had a thread trying to get PFs to work in the materials networks, and I've never been able to get them to work on a PC. You're working on a Mac. So I wonder if there's a bug somewhere.
Download the file, I'll start the render within the next minutes and we can compare :)
Downloading...
My wife is sick ... here is a scene file that you could insert the object in, but for now I have family business
Sorry to hear that Volker.
Here are my renders from the TGO. I'll try your scene file.
Couldn't get your scene to work, because of your TGO path. Replacing the TGO crashed TG. Deleting the TGO and importing the first download gave me this...
Here is mine ... looks like proofing the bug :(
did you try different settings for RTO?
Was there no colour information in the TGO??? Funny ...
By the it is your bug, Jon ... you have to report it ,-)
;D
Thanks. Posting it now.
Quote from: Volker Harun on March 03, 2011, 04:52:59 PM
did you try different settings for RTO?
What, on or off? I'll switch it off...
...same problem.
Quote from: Hetzen on March 03, 2011, 04:58:56 PM
Thanks. Posting it now.
Okay, there seems to be something wrong with the TGO ...
I am going to upload the original setup to Hotfile right now.
Edit: (Hotfile) http://hotfile.com/dl/108548961/672a49c/Botty_1-01e_forHotfile.zip.html (http://hotfile.com/dl/108548961/672a49c/Botty_1-01e_forHotfile.zip.html)
Downloading...
...and uploading your last TGO. :D
Just updated your bug report ...
Here's how you scene rendered...
Very strange. I'm going to roll back a version to try it.
I just saved the Hotfile-download in another directory ... started the render ... and everything goes fine ...
Maybe there is a bug how TG2 works with objects internally. As mentioned a few posts above, the exported TGO seems to have problems. In other ways, the TGO renders just like your windows' renders.
The Win-version does everything wrong, the OS X only on export.
Yep. I can understand the TGO export being an issue with quads to triangles. But I'm not even getting any colour information, regardless of the model. Something is not right.
The older TG Windows has the same problem.
I was just searching for this old thread with all this procedural texturing. Did not find it. But I remember Jo writing something like: You guys are doing something different than Volker ...
Maybe you should consider to switch to a Mac then ,-)
Maybe I should just stick to drinking 'Gin fizz'.... ;D
Don't dare ,-) this was my wife's choice ... and she would like to drink it salted ... well, it is a french gin ... so salt could not harm ,-)
By the way ... the object has no quads ... I triangulate objects in Blender before exporting. (most times)
,-) Volker
Well then I'm not surprised she's not feeling very well. If it's French then blame Seth. :o
Exporting objects from any 3D package always seems to have a 'clean-up' factor. Tbh, I'm more interested in getting PFs in my materials.
Yes, Franck should at least show us a render in place of an apology. I admit that this Gin is very tasty, a bit like the Monkey 49 with a bit more fruit.
errr ... Topic!!!! ... Here is another image, I posted today at the Goboto forum ,-) Just to tease !
Being in the mood to bust my own thread ... some more aggressive teasers ,-)
Everything just testing textures and exports ... nothin' serious.
Those PF's make a huge difference. I'm loving the rusty concrete in the first of three above.
Continued ... ;D
I love those birdies!!! Really cool.
I use Windows, I don't know if this is of interest, I downloaded your botty posed tgd file and of course got the error that I couldn't find the botty. I looked at the internal network. I expected the PFs to plug into colour, translucency, and displacement. What I saw was PFs plugged into colour, reflectivity, and displacement!!!! I wonder if that is a Mac/Windows version issue...
Quote from: pfrancke on March 05, 2011, 01:49:35 PMI expected the PFs to plug into colour, translucency, and displacement. What I saw was PFs plugged into colour, reflectivity, and displacement!!!! I wonder if that is a Mac/Windows version issue...
The Hotfile-Botty has no luminance ... I used it only for the Birdy's wings.
It is ineresting that the file still shows the 'Could not find OBJ'-error, as I changed the path to ./Botty...obj ...
At the moment I am very busy on a business project, but started on a more Da Vinci looking Birdy ... atached image is from Groboto, not TG2.
oh this is going to be good! -- I took the tgd only, so the "could not find" error was expected. I like the source light and reflective ground, but I especially am having fun with the power fractals that you use to color the object. Good luck on your projects - business and otherwise!
hehehe Volker, you got stuck with Groboto !!!
nice renders I like the arma ring texture
Great thread! Thanks for posting your results, Volker.
Thanks calico ,-)
Now I got stuck with my usual business, Franck ... Even weekends are without any break :(