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General => Image Sharing => Topic started by: Tangled-Universe on March 19, 2011, 06:40:23 pm

Title: 127 hours
Post by: Tangled-Universe on March 19, 2011, 06:40:23 pm
Recently saw this movie and it made me feel like doing these kind of images, again...
I'll explore the project for more nice POV's and post these as well.

Cheers,
Martin
Title: Re: 127 hours
Post by: FrankB on March 19, 2011, 06:56:20 pm
just great, Martin. Perfect. No critics from me at all. I looks very real to me.
Your're just excellent at these kind of scenes :)

Cheers,
Frank
Title: Re: 127 hours
Post by: Kadri on March 19, 2011, 07:07:58 pm

Nice render , Martin :)
Title: Re: 127 hours
Post by: jbest on March 19, 2011, 07:11:59 pm
It looks realistic already   8)
Title: Re: 127 hours
Post by: Hetzen on March 19, 2011, 07:13:39 pm
Please don't say this took 127 hours to render.
Title: Re: 127 hours
Post by: Tangled-Universe on March 19, 2011, 07:17:16 pm
Thanks guys :)

Quote from: Hetzen on March 19, 2011, 07:13:39 pm
Please don't say this took 127 hours to render.


Ghehe, no no :) I will tell you: my first test with detail 0.85, AA4 and GI 2/4/6 + SSPP + GISD took 127 minutes :D (and 34 seconds) No kidding!

This one took ~5 hours with even higher settings.
Title: Re: 127 hours
Post by: Oshyan on March 19, 2011, 07:29:47 pm
It's a really gorgeous image, extremely realistic. It would fit in very well with the movie (which has really stuck with me since I saw it a week or so ago...).

- Oshyan
Title: Re: 127 hours
Post by: Seth on March 19, 2011, 08:48:39 pm
very very good render !
just awesome
Title: Re: 127 hours
Post by: RArcher on March 20, 2011, 03:01:17 am
Beautiful Martin, the colour contrasts are really nice.
Title: Re: 127 hours
Post by: chris_x422 on March 20, 2011, 07:42:16 am
Really natural looking displacement and top notch lighting Martin.

Brings back painful memories of the film, which was great.
Title: Re: 127 hours
Post by: volcomman1 on March 20, 2011, 04:18:31 pm
looks very good!!

and yeah i saw this movie last week  ;D .. - very good movie
Title: Re: 127 hours
Post by: choronr on March 20, 2011, 07:44:58 pm
Just like some of the real life images in my neighborhood. Very inspirational work Martin; you've got me fired up for another.
Title: Re: 127 hours
Post by: Tangled-Universe on March 21, 2011, 05:43:03 pm
Thanks all :) Glad you like it :)

Unfortunately it's not good enough for Leigh the adminstrator of CGSociety.org to get posted there...
Ghehe, not surprising after accusing her publically on CGS of being too subjective and what not :)
Title: Re: 127 hours
Post by: FrankB on March 21, 2011, 05:56:27 pm
unbelievable. I'd like to meet that person at some point face to face. Really, I am curious as to what kind of weird thinking and values lead her to detest our art so much, and I'd like to hear that from her one day. She lives in London, doesn't she? Think I've read that somewhere.
Title: Re: 127 hours
Post by: inkydigit on March 21, 2011, 06:04:23 pm
Quote from: Tangled-Universe on March 21, 2011, 05:43:03 pm
Thanks all :) Glad you like it :)

Unfortunately it's not good enough for Leigh the adminstrator of CGSociety.org to get posted there...
Ghehe, not surprising after accusing her publically on CGS of being too subjective and what not :)

that is astonishing!
unbelievable ....
I wonder what the motivation for this attitude is?
btw, I love this scene, pure TG of the highest quality imho
:)
Title: Re: 127 hours
Post by: choronr on March 21, 2011, 07:00:55 pm
Quote from: Tangled-Universe on March 21, 2011, 05:43:03 pm
Thanks all :) Glad you like it :)

Unfortunately it's not good enough for Leigh the adminstrator of CGSociety.org to get posted there...
Ghehe, not surprising after accusing her publically on CGS of being too subjective and what not :)

I sometimes think that if the software producer does not advertise there, they have nothing to do with you.
Title: Re: 127 hours
Post by: AP on March 21, 2011, 07:22:06 pm
Quote from: choronr on March 21, 2011, 07:00:55 pm
Quote from: Tangled-Universe on March 21, 2011, 05:43:03 pm
Thanks all :) Glad you like it :)

Unfortunately it's not good enough for Leigh the adminstrator of CGSociety.org to get posted there...
Ghehe, not surprising after accusing her publically on CGS of being too subjective and what not :)

I sometimes think that if the software producer does not advertise there, they have nothing to do with you.


If that is true which would not surprise me, then in there eyes, if Art does not have a profit motive or a brochure then it is deemed worthless. If the Arts are only limited to software sales connections and advertizements then what good is Art at it's core? No issue with making capital on one's Art and the software that helps produce it but Art is more then that as well. Some folks are way too narrow minded and in the Arts, narrow-thinking does not correlate at all.
Title: Re: 127 hours
Post by: Seth on March 21, 2011, 07:34:02 pm
Quote from: Tangled-Universe on March 21, 2011, 05:43:03 pm


Unfortunately it's not good enough for Leigh the adminstrator of CGSociety.org to get posted there...
Ghehe, not surprising after accusing her publically on CGS of being too subjective and what not :)


WTF ?!
goddamn them all
Title: Re: 127 hours
Post by: Oshyan on March 21, 2011, 10:06:24 pm
I suggest posting it to an artistic landscape photography site with similar submission rules (i.e. quality control). If it gets accepted, well... ;D

- Oshyan
Title: Re: 127 hours
Post by: Walli on March 22, 2011, 04:48:10 am
most sites with "quality control" are biased in the one or other direction. On some sites they show the tenthmillionst render of an Audi on some sort of gradient background, but if you send a landscape render, or a render of a plant, then this is not original enough, not what they are looking for, whatever.

Don´t care about it. In some cases they have some valid points, but overall I think it´s much easier to push a car render through ;-)
Title: Re: 127 hours
Post by: cyphyr on March 22, 2011, 05:00:16 am
Grab a robot model (female of course) from turbosquid and droop it in, up the reflections and don't forget the lens flares, and CGTalk will accept it in no time!!

Seriously another great scene, beautifully lit and textured.

Richard
Title: Re: 127 hours
Post by: Tangled-Universe on March 24, 2011, 09:29:05 am
Quote from: Oshyan on March 21, 2011, 10:06:24 pm
I suggest posting it to an artistic landscape photography site with similar submission rules (i.e. quality control). If it gets accepted, well... ;D

- Oshyan


Yeah good idea...which site do you know/suggest? :)
Quote from: cyphyr on March 22, 2011, 05:00:16 am
Grab a robot model (female of course) from turbosquid and droop it in, up the reflections and don't forget the lens flares, and CGTalk will accept it in no time!!

Seriously another great scene, beautifully lit and textured.

Richard


Thanks Richard :)

Ghehe yeah indeed :)
Coincidentially someone from Deviantart (Angelitoon) with a Vue/Max background asked to do a collab, to combine efforts for a sci-fi like scene.
I think this might be an opportunity to show if you're right!
I'm still browsing his gallery to see what we could combine...


Martin
Title: Re: 127 hours
Post by: volcomman1 on March 25, 2011, 01:31:48 pm
Quote

Ghehe yeah indeed :)
Coincidentially someone from Deviantart (Angelitoon) with a Vue/Max background asked to do a collab, to combine efforts for a sci-fi like scene.
I think this might be an opportunity to show if you're right!
I'm still browsing his gallery to see what we could combine...


Martin


Respect.
angelitoon is a artist with many knowledge (25 years in digital art).  ;)
Title: Re: 127 hours
Post by: Tangled-Universe on March 25, 2011, 03:23:21 pm
For so long? I didn't know that. Thanks.

Anyhow, regardless of that I'm interested in doing so. If it results in anything then I'll definitely show it here :)

Cheers,
Martin
Title: Re: 127 hours
Post by: Matt on March 26, 2011, 03:12:21 pm
Quote from: Tangled-Universe on March 21, 2011, 05:43:03 pm
Unfortunately it's not good enough for Leigh the adminstrator of CGSociety.org to get posted there...
Ghehe, not surprising after accusing her publically on CGS of being too subjective and what not :)


Why not post it in the WIP section and invite criticism from other CGSociety members. As users of one software we often become quite focused. Instead of taking it personally, consider the possibility that maybe to a non-Terragen observer it isn't such an interesting piece overall? CGSociety is well within its rights to set the bar as high as it wants.
Title: Re: 127 hours
Post by: Tangled-Universe on March 26, 2011, 03:16:28 pm
Yeah why not :)
Title: Re: 127 hours
Post by: Seth on March 26, 2011, 05:25:04 pm
Do you think this (http://features.cgsociety.org/newgallerycrits/g97/367697/367697_1299530801_large.jpg) is better quality than Martin's render ?
or even that (http://features.cgsociety.org/newgallerycrits/g00/452100/452100_1299470535_large.jpg) ?
or this one (http://features.cgsociety.org/newgallerycrits/g29/343929/343929_1298583739_large.jpg) ?

mmmh... I think this is only because it comes from TG2, not because of the "high standard" of the website.
Title: Re: 127 hours
Post by: FrankB on March 26, 2011, 05:47:36 pm
Quote from: Seth on March 26, 2011, 05:25:04 pm
Do you think this (http://features.cgsociety.org/newgallerycrits/g97/367697/367697_1299530801_large.jpg) is better quality than Martin's render ?
or even that (http://features.cgsociety.org/newgallerycrits/g00/452100/452100_1299470535_large.jpg) ?
or this one (http://features.cgsociety.org/newgallerycrits/g29/343929/343929_1298583739_large.jpg) ?

mmmh... I think this is only because it comes from TG2, not because of the "high standard" of the website.



I agree with what you are trying to say with this.... Although Matt is right, too. Now, how can you AND Matt be right? Simple: Leigh is not cgsociety. Her judgement is just a misguided part of cgsociety. I know that the other moderators there are not always in agreement with her decisions.

Still Matt's suggestion to post in WIP is a good one.

Regards,
Frank
Title: Re: 127 hours
Post by: Tangled-Universe on March 26, 2011, 06:11:32 pm
It's in the WIP section @ CGS now:

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=43&t=967661 (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=43&t=967661)
Title: Re: 127 hours
Post by: RArcher on March 26, 2011, 06:31:12 pm
From the perspective of someone who has also had a few renders rejected, I can see part of where they are coming from.  For your particular image, other than the landscape (which in itself is amazing) there is no particular point of interest to someone looking at the image looking for a meaning.  In all of the examples Franck posted, even though the images themselves may not be particularly spectacular, each one does have a focus point, or something going on in the image that draws attention.

On a photography forum I am sure your image would be embraced for what it is, but for a board like Cgsociety where nearly ever image has to be packed full of imagery and focus points it doesn't fit in as well.  This holds true for most of my images as well.
Title: Re: 127 hours
Post by: Seth on March 27, 2011, 02:40:15 pm
I understand, but yet, they look like sh*t and still get to the still images thread.

Title: Re: 127 hours
Post by: Tangled-Universe on March 31, 2011, 04:42:01 pm
Next little chapter on this...

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=132&t=968692

Seems you only need a kite and use 3d max + vray as only two differences to get your work accepted ;)
Title: Re: 127 hours
Post by: Seth on April 01, 2011, 12:44:57 pm
huhu
Title: Re: 127 hours
Post by: Oshyan on April 01, 2011, 05:21:32 pm
Hah, wow. That's a pretty clear indication there T-U. *sigh*

- Oshyan
Title: Re: 127 hours
Post by: Jack on April 01, 2011, 08:02:31 pm
Quote from: Tangled-Universe on March 31, 2011, 04:42:01 pm
Next little chapter on this...

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=132&t=968692

Seems you only need a kite and use 3d max + vray as only two differences to get your work accepted ;)


Why do you even bother with that site its bloody awful!
create a sightly different pov and say it was done in max with vray and mudbox and see what happens:)
Title: Re: 127 hours
Post by: max_thehitman on April 21, 2011, 06:45:49 pm


SUPERB is the word!
Great job!

Title: Re: 127 hours
Post by: Jo Kariboo on June 27, 2011, 11:32:37 pm
Excellent!!! I am very impressed by this image.
Title: Re: 127 hours
Post by: FlyLaika on June 29, 2011, 03:29:49 pm
Stunning
Title: Re: 127 hours
Post by: TheBadger on July 12, 2011, 03:39:46 pm
Tail between my legs.
Title: Re: 127 hours
Post by: TheBadger on July 12, 2011, 05:37:32 pm
Also,
I find it funny that the incestuous nature of the art world extends to the digital world and 3d work. The fact that your work and the work of others in terregen can't find a home on other sites and forums is normal. Just look at the world of photography and painting, how many brilliant artists are there in the world that we will never know the names of?. It simply does not matter if your work is good, and God help you if your a genius (you will surly starve to death), If you don't think like they do, your not worth thinking about. So, If you want to be recognized for your hard work and achievements, stop thinking for your self (real diversity is despised in the arts), and start thinking like they do... In this case, a sexy fem-bot.

lol... Anyway, keep making your art guys, I like it, and who knows maybe one day soon everyone else will see what you are doing too. The mob is fickle.
Title: Re: 127 hours
Post by: Draigr on July 13, 2011, 03:46:50 am
Oh come on. All this hate for CGS? As has been commented. They look for different things in their art. Focal points, stories, something that stands out. A lot of landscape photography and renders, for all their technical impressiveness tend to lack these same qualities. No aspersions on the amazing stuff I see every day in this very forum. Include humans, animals, or something else in your renders, make them do something interesting, and all of a sudden, you'll notice more interest.

If you want to submit renders plainly, then I suggest you look to submit into a similar field. A photography or terrain rendering forum.

Additionally, Terragen renders could be used in conjunction with photoshop for some impressive Matte paintings, no?

Before you get annoyed, think about where you're submitting, and what they're going to notice. I've seen some awe inspiring terrains somewhere round the place, they get through, but they sort of have to floor you at first glance.

Of course. Nobody will complain if you include airships... You know. The Steampunk ones.
Title: Re: 127 hours
Post by: Tangled-Universe on July 13, 2011, 05:41:45 am
TheBadger is right on what they're looking after: fem-bots, monsters, vehicles etc. Similar to the thought that a mainstream action flick should contain bikini-ladies, helicopters and explosions. All there? Then it's good, otherwise not.
This short-sighted single minded attitude is very strong there.
Regardless of that in some cases other work shows up which has nothing special and is purely technical. A good TG2 render can be considered as such.

Draigr, yes, adding a steampunk ship would perfectly fit their childish attitude towards art.
CGSociety is a self-named/called biggest society for (semi-)professional people. It's not strange to expect a more grown-up attitude toward art then.

And yes, you're right in your second last line. After many attempts of our community we basically concluded that they're "not into our work".
I won't try it anymore. Maybe never again, but certainly not quickly.
Title: Re: 127 hours
Post by: Henry Blewer on July 13, 2011, 08:07:15 am
I would rather have a sexy fem-bot clean for me than appear in my art. I have been thinking about adding some airships, but not steampunk ones. Something more realistic or even Tom Swift like.
Title: Re: 127 hours
Post by: Draigr on July 13, 2011, 10:17:50 am
A fair point, CGS is very much mainstream VFX artists and whatnot, so there's a lot of homogenising. And they don't like Terragen renders. And can be an arrogant bunch sometimes. But they're not all bad, and keep in mind. A terrain render in Terragen takes almost no time to set up when compared to a similar render with 3DS Max or associated 3D package. In one, the program does a lot of the work for you, in another, you have to do all the work.

Different audience different purpose.


Also. You got an update, you certainly humble me with all your shots...
Title: Re: 127 hours
Post by: Tangled-Universe on July 13, 2011, 11:05:33 am
Quote from: Draigr on July 13, 2011, 10:17:50 am
A fair point, CGS is very much mainstream VFX artists and whatnot, so there's a lot of homogenising. And they don't like Terragen renders. And can be an arrogant bunch sometimes. But they're not all bad, and keep in mind. A terrain render in Terragen takes almost no time to set up when compared to a similar render with 3DS Max or associated 3D package. In one, the program does a lot of the work for you, in another, you have to do all the work.

Different audience different purpose.


Also. You got an update, you certainly humble me with all your shots...


Yes I agree it is homogenising and definitely agree they don't like Terragen renders and you hit the nail why: Terragen takes no time to set up compared to a similar render with 3DS Max. And in their eyes thus not as good as .... (name your "real" 3D app).

First of all, that's totally not true and especially 100% not true for quality work. Mediocre stuff, yes, but complex realistic absolutely not.
Secondly, what if it was true. So what? That's the other thing you mentioned: they are often arrogant. Certainly not all of them, I agree. But imo very rusted into their ways of doing/looking at stuff.
What if it indeed is 10x easier, 5x faster (I wish it was lol). If it gets the job done, it gets the job done.

There's a similar thread going there about why to care with Renderman which has 10% design/90% problem-solving ratio. It's the new-comers versus senior artists who can't let their old-fashioned rusty ideas/techniques go.
And you know what these guys say? "If it gets the job done, it gets the job done". Hey that sounds familiar! ;)

That's basically how I look at it.
Title: Re: 127 hours
Post by: Draigr on July 13, 2011, 12:06:47 pm
Yeah. I'm agreement. From what I've found, and I'm hardly experienced. Terragen initial scenes are quick to set up. But finalising will basically take hundreds of hours of rendering before you find yourself satisfied with what you do.


This is similar in my experience with most 3D apps, I've used, and still use, Blender, 3DS Max if absolutely necessary (hate the program, so clunky), Zbrush and various engines and whatnot. You start with the scene, but you may very well end up rendering and tweaking for the next few months before you're satisfied.

I personally love Terragen too much, as it's eating into my practice with other programs :P. It's so preeetttty!

I get distracted by shiny things a lot.
Title: Re: 127 hours
Post by: Henry Blewer on July 13, 2011, 05:04:44 pm
Everyone becomes 'trendy'. One of the elite will start messing around with Terragen 2 and the flood gate will open.
Title: Re: 127 hours
Post by: TheBadger on July 13, 2011, 06:08:21 pm
I like this thread, we are having the same conversation (updated) that the great artists had. If someone would just cut their ear off, and then shoot them self, then we will have a new art movement! Just kidding, no one should do that.
Title: Re: 127 hours
Post by: Tangled-Universe on July 14, 2011, 02:27:34 am
Quote from: njeneb on July 13, 2011, 05:04:44 pm
Everyone becomes 'trendy'. One of the elite will start messing around with Terragen 2 and the flood gate will open.


If Terragen gets more user-friendly control over positioning and look, for instance by a base sculpt tool + procedurals for refinement, then you're definitely right.
It's one of the things why Vue is still dominant. You can do that in Vue. Rendering it (in high quality) is another question, but TG2 can't do the first thing so they don't bother yet.
Title: Re: 127 hours
Post by: Draigr on July 14, 2011, 04:04:35 am
I think another reason is that Vue is a lot more artsy. The renderings almost always look like a 3D image, whereas Terragen is hardcore realistic. Getting something more artsy from Terragen is quite difficult. And some of the features are very handy, like the latest version having the ability to change the lighting without rerendering the entire image... That would be handy!

But from my research, before getting Terragen, they're both programs who have very similar features and capabilities, but are vastly different in how they handle things. I'm sure someone will argue with me. But at first glance, they're like photoshop and GIMP. Actually that's bad comparison! Who cares.


Terragen's getting a small revolution though, more studios are using it for movies and VFX.


You know what'd make more people interested? A full training course sold alongside. Adobe figured out they sell more if training is offered alongside. And whoever makes the training gets to enjoy a nice long grace period (if they're good) of being the only real paid training on the market for Terragen. Make it not too pricey and very affordable, and even the most miserly of hobbyists will buy it.
Title: Re: 127 hours
Post by: Tangled-Universe on July 14, 2011, 04:16:43 am
I think you're right.
Vue and TG can do the same, but the way things are handled is indeed totally different as far as I can tell.

I agree with you about the training. (but also an official manual/userguide should help out a lot, but every frequent visitor here knows the shameful story about this which I'm not feeling much for to dive into)
We at NWDA have been thinking about training for quite some time. There's a lot of stuff we could cover and offer, but the hardcore key stuff to get professionals interested is a big hurdle.
I, for instance, have no clue about TG2>Max or TG2>Maya workflow. I know how to set up geometry export and importing that in Max and that's totally it.
Maybe that's enough, I don't know.

I can tell you that in the near future a lot of useful resources will be available.
First of all I've written a FAQ which should become available soon. Logically it will cover the FAQ you see (too) much here on the forums.

Secondly, I'm working on a personal website for my portfolio, but I'm also planning a blog-section which will contain tutorials.
I already have a couple of dozen items listed so with a weekly update I could almost keep it going for well over half a year.
Hopefully in that half year much will happen with TG2, but I don't know.

I seriously could use some help though with building that site so I think I should ask help here...

Cheers,
Martin
Title: Re: 127 hours
Post by: Draigr on July 14, 2011, 07:15:01 am
Well, I'm no coder, so can't help with the nitty gritty's of making the site appear on the internetz, but I am a designer, and can certainly do mockups and graphics for you. That's sort of my day job.
Title: Re: 127 hours
Post by: folder on July 14, 2011, 11:12:31 am
Well,  Martin to be a bit off topic, I spend mostof my time writing and proofing documents.  If any help is needed in those areas, I am willing and able. Although in my opinion your use of English is quite excellent.


David
Title: Re: 127 hours
Post by: TheBadger on July 14, 2011, 02:47:26 pm
New tutorials and other training learning tools can not come soon enough! I am sure a new web site will be well received! And I agree 100%, the more training is available, the more people will use Terragen, and the more respected the work will become. But I know nothing comes easy.