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Support => Terragen Support => Topic started by: choronr on June 09, 2011, 06:57:54 pm

Title: .bmp to .jpg conversion
Post by: choronr on June 09, 2011, 06:57:54 pm
I have a 'Photoshop' question. I have an 1830 x 1024 .bmp file that I want to save as a .jpg file. My limit in size for posting is 512KB. In Photoshop, settings for max quality is 12 - this yields a .jpg size of over 600KB (too large).

When I bring the quality down to 11, it yields a .jpg size of little more than 300 (too small). Unless I'm missing something, I cannot find a way to get something closer to 512KB other than resizing the image. Any suggestions on this?

It seems there is no way to adjust the settings so as to save a .bmp to a .jpg that is incrementally somewhere between 11 and 12 as such to achieve a file KB somewhere close to 512KB without resizing the image. I have Photoshop 7.0.

         Bob  
Title: Re: .bmp to .jpg conversion
Post by: Oshyan on June 09, 2011, 07:08:29 pm
The "12" setting is actually rather wasteful and doesn't really get you any more *noticeable* quality. It's *not* intended for posting to the web, like the forums here. In fact for web posting you should not use the regular Save As at all, instead you should use Save for Web (I believe Photoshop 7 should have this feature). This will give you the best balance of size and quality *and* give you the ability to see exactly what effect your compression settings will have, so you can be sure the quality is acceptable.

It's also important to note that just because there's a maximum doesn't mean you need to *hit* the maximum (or get close to it). It sounds like you're trying to be as close to 512KB as possible, but why? If the quality is good at 100KB for your image, why use extra space unnecessarily? It just makes downloads take longer for viewers and takes up more space for whomever is hosting the image. Particularly with lower resolution images the file size doesn't need to be as large.

- Oshyan
Title: Re: .bmp to .jpg conversion
Post by: choronr on June 09, 2011, 07:16:32 pm
Thanks Oshyan. I checked Photoshop and I don't see a 'Save for Web' option. When I tried the lower quality number (11), the sky in the image showed banding. At the 12 setting, the banding was gone. Under 'Haze glow Power' I had reduced it from the default of 1.25 to 0.75.

Sorry, I did find 'Save for Web' ...my error. I will try it.
Title: Re: .bmp to .jpg conversion
Post by: choronr on June 09, 2011, 07:30:19 pm
Ok, I opened the .bmp in Photoshop and Saved for Web. Apparently it converts it to a .gif. But, the bottom portion of the image is cut off ...what's this?
Title: Re: .bmp to .jpg conversion
Post by: Henry Blewer on June 09, 2011, 09:30:15 pm
Do you have Corel Paint X2? That has a very good wizard exporter. Or try GIMP (Free). It also does a very good job.
Title: Re: .bmp to .jpg conversion
Post by: choronr on June 09, 2011, 09:34:46 pm
Quote from: njeneb on June 09, 2011, 09:30:15 pm
Do you have Corel Paint X2? That has a very good wizard exporter. Or try GIMP (Free). It also does a very good job.


Thanks Henry, I don't have either program; I only have 'Paint' and 'Photoshop'. I did a final save as a .jpg after screwing around with different PS adjustments. Still have some banding in the sky however; but, what you see is what you get.
Title: Re: .bmp to .jpg conversion
Post by: rageracer on June 09, 2011, 09:49:23 pm
Not sure if this will help, but if your just resizing or converting to jpg, why don't you try irfanview

http://www.irfanview.com/
Title: Re: .bmp to .jpg conversion
Post by: choronr on June 09, 2011, 09:51:30 pm
Quote from: rageracer on June 09, 2011, 09:49:23 pm
Not sure if this will help, but if your just resizing or converting to jpg, why don't you try irfanview

http://www.irfanview.com/


Thanks, I forgot I had Irfanview; I'll give it a try.
Title: Re: .bmp to .jpg conversion
Post by: freelancah on June 10, 2011, 06:06:22 am
Photoshop save as, jpg and quality 10 is usually something that yields good enough results and does not consume too much space..Well atleast thats what I've been using with results to my liking
Title: Re: .bmp to .jpg conversion
Post by: Dune on June 10, 2011, 08:52:24 am
I always use Irfanview (save for web plugin) for these posts, as you can exactly see the number of kB's corresponding to the quality.
Title: Re: .bmp to .jpg conversion
Post by: choronr on June 10, 2011, 01:12:37 pm
Quote from: freelancah on June 10, 2011, 06:06:22 am
Photoshop save as, jpg and quality 10 is usually something that yields good enough results and does not consume too much space..Well atleast thats what I've been using with results to my liking

Thanks for your thoughts on this, I've always used this method; but, will have a look at the Irfanview method and see if it produces better results.
Title: Re: .bmp to .jpg conversion
Post by: choronr on June 10, 2011, 01:16:15 pm
Quote from: choronr on June 10, 2011, 01:12:37 pm
Quote from: freelancah on June 10, 2011, 06:06:22 am
Photoshop save as, jpg and quality 10 is usually something that yields good enough results and does not consume too much space..Well atleast thats what I've been using with results to my liking

Thanks for your thoughts on this, I've always used this method; but, will have a look at the Irfanview method and see if it produces better results.

Thanks Ulco, I need to upload the Irfanview RIOT.dll PLUGIN to try this method. The same method from Photoshop produced horrible results with very bad banding in the sky. 
Title: Re: .bmp to .jpg conversion
Post by: Oshyan on June 10, 2011, 06:12:47 pm
Save for Web allows you to choose JPG as one of the output formats, so I'd suggest trying that again and looking for a "format" option or "file type", etc. Irfanview is one option, XnView is another (my preference). In XnView you can get great results without too large file by doing the following:

File->Export
Go to JPG tab (if not already there)
Quality to 90 or 95 if necessary
Change DCT method to "Float (best but slowest)"
Smoothing factor 0
Subsampling factor to "1x1, 1x1, 1x1 (best quality)"
Progressive enabled (you don't have to use progressive, it won't really affect quality, but can make slightly smaller file size on large images)
Optimize Huffman table enabled

Click the magnifying glass in the middle of the two preview images above to get to 100% view, then click and drag around on either of the image previews to pan around the image and see if there are any compression artifacts. The compressed version is on the right, the original on the left.

- Oshyan
Title: Re: .bmp to .jpg conversion
Post by: choronr on June 10, 2011, 06:23:19 pm
Quote from: Oshyan on June 10, 2011, 06:12:47 pm
Save for Web allows you to choose JPG as one of the output formats, so I'd suggest trying that again and looking for a "format" option or "file type", etc. Irfanview is one option, XnView is another (my preference). In XnView you can get great results without too large file by doing the following:

File->Export
Go to JPG tab (if not already there)
Quality to 90 or 95 if necessary
Change DCT method to "Float (best but slowest)"
Smoothing factor 0
Subsampling factor to "1x1, 1x1, 1x1 (best quality)"
Progressive enabled (you don't have to use progressive, it won't really affect quality, but can make slightly smaller file size on large images)
Optimize Huffman table enabled

Click the magnifying glass in the middle of the two preview images above to get to 100% view, then click and drag around on either of the image previews to pan around the image and see if there are any compression artifacts. The compressed version is on the right, the original on the left.

- Oshyan

Thank you Oshyan, and for the details. I will have a look at XnView and decide where I'll be going with this. I've never been really happy with the .bmp > Photoshop > .jpg; then, putts around trying to get the best results. PS does not give you the KB size of the .jpg converted from the .bmp. I would have to take the .jpg image into 'Paint' in order to find out the KB size.
Title: Re: .bmp to .jpg conversion
Post by: Oshyan on June 10, 2011, 06:55:37 pm
XnView gives a nice realtime update of the visual quality and resulting file size. It also gives you more options to play with than even modern Photoshop (CS5) with Save for Web. I loves my XnView. ;D

- Oshyan
Title: Re: .bmp to .jpg conversion
Post by: choronr on June 10, 2011, 07:04:06 pm
Quote from: Oshyan on June 10, 2011, 06:55:37 pm
XnView gives a nice realtime update of the visual quality and resulting file size. It also gives you more options to play with than even modern Photoshop (CS5) with Save for Web. I loves my XnView. ;D

- Oshyan

Trying to follow your steps in XnView but unable to find the stuff (sorry, sometimes I'm a spoon eater):

File->Export OK
Go to JPG tab (if not already there) OPENED THE .BMP AND SAVED AS A .JPG
Quality to 90 or 95 if necessary WHERE DO I FIND THIS?
Change DCT method to "Float (best but slowest)" WHERE DO I FIND THIS?
Smoothing factor 0 WHERE DO I FIND THIS?
Subsampling factor to "1x1, 1x1, 1x1 (best quality)" WHERE DO I FIND THIS?
Progressive enabled (you don't have to use progressive, it won't really affect quality, but can make slightly smaller file size on large images) WHERE DO I FIND THIS?
Optimize Huffman table enabled WHERE DO I FIND THIS?

Sorry, I realize you have more important things to do; but, if you can, I'd appreciate the above how to. Thanks.
Title: Re: .bmp to .jpg conversion
Post by: Oshyan on June 10, 2011, 07:07:11 pm
I guess I left out a step (I sort of assumed that part): you have to open the image in XnView first. Then go to File->Export and follow the steps. You do *not* want to "open the BMP and save as JPG". Export *is* save. But again the file has to be *open* first to Export it.

- Oshyan
Title: Re: .bmp to .jpg conversion
Post by: choronr on June 10, 2011, 07:12:24 pm
Again, thanks for your support. I'll have another go at it and get back later with the results. Really appreciate this Oshyan.
Title: Re: .bmp to .jpg conversion
Post by: choronr on June 10, 2011, 07:18:58 pm
Quote from: Oshyan on June 10, 2011, 07:07:11 pm
I guess I left out a step (I sort of assumed that part): you have to open the image in XnView first. Then go to File->Export and follow the steps. You do *not* want to "open the BMP and save as JPG". Export *is* save. But again the file has to be *open* first to Export it.

- Oshyan

Clarification please: When you say 'open the image in XnView first', I assume you mean the .bmp I saved as a result of my render; correct?
Title: Re: .bmp to .jpg conversion
Post by: Oshyan on June 10, 2011, 07:37:57 pm
Yes, correct. Open the BMP that you wish to save/export to JPG.

- Oshyan
Title: Re: .bmp to .jpg conversion
Post by: choronr on June 10, 2011, 07:39:37 pm
Thanks Oshyan; now to dinner and then back again ...laters.
Title: Re: .bmp to .jpg conversion
Post by: choronr on June 10, 2011, 08:17:30 pm
File>export (I opened the .bmp file)
Open .jpg tab ( ? ) see below - the encircled is grayed out.
Title: Re: .bmp to .jpg conversion
Post by: Oshyan on June 10, 2011, 08:38:28 pm
I don't understand what you're asking about. You have a BMP open in your screenshot. The grayed out icon is just the "lossless JPEG transformation" function and it's not available because you have a BMP open, not a JPG.

- Oshyan
Title: Re: .bmp to .jpg conversion
Post by: choronr on June 10, 2011, 09:20:17 pm
Quote from: Oshyan on June 10, 2011, 08:38:28 pm
I don't understand what you're asking about. You have a BMP open in your screenshot. The grayed out icon is just the "lossless JPEG transformation" function and it's not available because you have a BMP open, not a JPG.

- Oshyan

And, you said: 'Yes, correct. Open the BMP that you wish to save/export to JPG.'. (opened in XnView)

Earlier in your explanation, you said next: 'Go to JPG tab'.

So I opened the program; opened the .bmp; and, looked for the tab - and a tab isn't there because a .bmp is open. ???

This beginning to sound like the Abbott and Costelo's 'Who's on First'.
Title: Re: .bmp to .jpg conversion
Post by: Kadri on June 10, 2011, 09:50:37 pm

XnView does have 2 modes : Browser and Viewer (like an editor i think)
I use double click with the "Left Mouse Button" or "Enter" to change between modes.
I change mostly the keys and the appearance so you have to search for it if it is different .
In viewer mode you get then what i posted here when you go to "File" then "Export" in the menu bar.
Title: Re: .bmp to .jpg conversion
Post by: Oshyan on June 10, 2011, 10:27:52 pm
This is basically what I said above: you have to open the image in XnView first (which you seem to have done) then go to File->Export and follow the steps outlined previously. Now that you've opened the image, it's the step of going to the File menu, then choosing Export, that you seem to be missing. The JPG tab is only visible once you're in the export dialog, the steps have to be followed in strict order.

- Oshyan
Title: Re: .bmp to .jpg conversion
Post by: choronr on June 10, 2011, 11:23:53 pm
Quote from: Oshyan on June 10, 2011, 10:27:52 pm
This is basically what I said above: you have to open the image in XnView first (which you seem to have done) then go to File->Export and follow the steps outlined previously. Now that you've opened the image, it's the step of going to the File menu, then choosing Export, that you seem to be missing. The JPG tab is only visible once you're in the export dialog, the steps have to be followed in strict order.

- Oshyan

Thank you Oshyan and Kadri,

Just after reading your message Oshyan, I went back and opened the ,bmp image; then, went to file - and there it was 'Export'. I tell you truly, the last times I tried it, Export was not there.

Now that it did work, a double window came up. From there, I will now follow through with your suggested sequence Oshyan, and see if I can reach the goal.

Thanks Oshyan for putting up with me. I'll be back to tell you that it worked (hopefully).

Bob
Title: Re: .bmp to .jpg conversion
Post by: Oshyan on June 10, 2011, 11:56:50 pm
Hehe, glad you sorted it out. Now, I hope it helps in the end! ;D

- Oshyan
Title: Re: .bmp to .jpg conversion
Post by: choronr on June 11, 2011, 12:00:37 am
Quote from: Oshyan on June 10, 2011, 11:56:50 pm
Hehe, glad you sorted it out. Now, I hope it helps in the end! ;D

- Oshyan

Glory be ...it worked. In my excitement, I saved it unintentionally to Irfanview - meant to save it to my .jpg files under Terragen2.

So you now see I cannot chew gum and walk at the same time ...comes with age!
Title: Re: .bmp to .jpg conversion
Post by: Tangled-Universe on June 11, 2011, 04:16:55 am
Ghehe, you're awesome Bob ;D
Deep respect for you, I hope I will end up as vivid as you if I'll make it at your age :)