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General => File Sharing => Topic started by: RichTwo on March 08, 2012, 03:23:36 pm

Title: Planet Creator
Post by: RichTwo on March 08, 2012, 03:23:36 pm
It's been awhile since I've shared anything here, so it's about time, I'd say.  Attached is a .tgd for creating planet objects.  It is set up so that all you have to do is save the planet object as a clip file and insert it into your scene.  What it doesn't do is render a "home" landscape where the planet is in the sky.  The "home" planet is in the .tgd only to serve as a reference for the render camera.

Now, there are some things some of you may need to know: the settings for the planet object are embedded within the "Rendered Planet" object node.  You will have to right-click on the object and go to "Internal Network".  There is where it all happens.  The main features are controlled with multiply and bias scalars hooked to the voronoi node.  Adjusting the constant scalar values for these will alter the shape of the features.  The overall size of the features is set with a constant scalar as well.  The colors are all adjustable and everything is connected through a warp shader.

That is about it.  Please make note of the above, because as it is with life itself, Terragen 2 doesn't come with instructions. 
Title: Re: Planet Creator
Post by: dandelO on March 08, 2012, 05:25:27 pm
Great looking continent definition here! Very nice. :)
Title: Re: Planet Creator
Post by: elipsis1 on March 09, 2012, 11:29:46 pm
Thanks for sharing this.  Excellent work.
Title: Re: Planet Creator
Post by: DannyG on March 12, 2012, 10:36:02 am
Nice Rich, thanks for sharing this
Title: Re: Planet Creator
Post by: elipsis1 on March 12, 2012, 04:18:48 pm
Thank you for sharing this.  Wow, seems complicated in the .tgd, great tool for learning though :)
Title: .
Post by: Xynedia on March 13, 2012, 05:01:57 pm
.
Title: Re: Planet Creator
Post by: tomperrino on March 21, 2012, 05:36:25 pm
Very cool stuff!
It's an interesting one.
Nice post . keep up the good work!
Title: Re: Planet Creator
Post by: Erwin0265 on March 27, 2012, 06:55:23 am
Hi,
I'm a total noob;
"Now, there are some things some of you may need to know: the settings for the planet object are embedded within the "Rendered Planet" object node.  You will have to right-click on the object and go to "Internal Network".  There is where it all happens." 
This bit I understand............

"The main features are controlled with multiply and bias scalars hooked to the voronoi node.  Adjusting the constant scalar values for these will alter the shape of the features.  The overall size of the features is set with a constant scalar as well.  The colors are all adjustable and everything is connected through a warp shader."
Great; but how do I.................??
1. Where can I access the multiply and bias scalars that are hooked to the Voronoi node?
2. What's a constant scalar and where can I access that?
3. I found the warp shader to adjust the colours but must admit to being a bit vague on how two colours combined result in all the  colours of the planet.
4. Basically, unlike Terragen itself, are there any more instructions anyone is willing to impart?
5. This pack would be absolutely brilliant with associated tutorials [which I would be happy to write; if I knew anything............ ;D]

I have Vue but am finding Terragen far more enjoyable; I just wish there were as many tutorials for it as there are for Vue [yeah, I know; a common complaint].
I mean, it appears to be a great program but the resources [namely, information] is very much lacking and even Planetside, itself promises info updates "soon" and they were promised years ago.
But then, the staff appear very much understaffed.
I guess what I am saying is; great program, great potential - but it could be so much better.
PS. Please don't take any of this as negative; I'm amazed that Terragen hasn't gone the way of MojoWorld; it speaks volumes of its potential as well as the effort put in by [apparently very limited] staff as well as a strong user base [which I hope to become a part of...].

Erwin
Title: Re: Planet Creator
Post by: Hetzen on March 27, 2012, 10:50:42 am
If you double click on a node, you will get a floating panel, which holds all the parametres of that node. So to change a constant, double click on the node, change the value. Voila.

Bias and Gain scalars use fractions of 1 to control (eg 0.3).

If you want to know a little more about each node, have a look at this reference page....

http://www.planetside.co.uk/wiki/index.php/Terragen_2_Node_Reference

There are 4 types of data that can be passed along a node link, displacement, colour (RGB), scalar value (single number) and vector (xyz coordinates). Nodes generally work with multiple types of input, which is why it's so hard to document what you can do with them, as actually there are very few limits.
Title: Re: Planet Creator
Post by: RichTwo on March 27, 2012, 12:36:14 pm
Er - I forgot to start at a more basic level with my instructions for the total noobs.   I've diddling with TG2 for over 4 years (and have learned very little!) and made the assumption everyone would know at least as much as I did.  My bad!  But you are right, Hetzen.  Everything on the internal network is fully adjustable.
Title: Re: Planet Creator
Post by: jo on March 28, 2012, 05:41:08 am
Hi,

Quote from: Hetzen on March 27, 2012, 10:50:42 am
If you want to know a little more about each node, have a look at this reference page....

http://www.planetside.co.uk/wiki/index.php/Terragen_2_Node_Reference


I just thought I would add that there's a more direct way of getting info about specific nodes. Node parameter views have a button with a "?" icon in the top right. If you click this button it will take you to the page(s) for the that node in the Node Reference.

Another way (when v2.4 is released) is to open a Node Palette from the View menu, select a node and then click the "?" button in the bottom right corner. This will take you to the Node Reference as well.

Not all nodes are documented yet but we're making progress.

Regards,

Jo
Title: Re: Planet Creator
Post by: Erwin0265 on March 28, 2012, 06:30:14 am
"If you double click on a node, you will get a floating panel, which holds all the parametres of that node. So to change a constant, double click on the node, change the value."
This I understand; but as there are lots and lots of parameters that can be changed............ this still leads me to the same question; "Where can I access the multiply and bias scalars that are hooked to the Voronoi node?"

"Bias and Gain scalars use fractions of 1 to control (eg 0.3)."
OK, but I have yet to find any dialogue box which have these parameters. By that, I mean, where is a bias setting; where is a gain setting; where is a multiply setting?

I know how to get the edit dialogue boxes to pop up for a given node, but I can't find these settings anywhere................
Does it have something to do with the colour settings? I feel this is a weird question to ask, but most edit boxes have high and low colours as black and white [eg. in the ContinentShapes node]; but what does colour have to do with shape?

"Everything on the internal network is fully adjustable."
Yeah, but how is what I am asking..................

"There are 4 types of data that can be passed along a node link, displacement, colour (RGB), scalar value (single number) and vector (xyz coordinates). Nodes generally work with multiple types of input, which is why it's so hard to document what you can do with them, as actually there are very few limits."
What is scalar value, where do I find it and what does it do?

"I've diddling with TG2 for over 4 years (and have learned very little!) and made the assumption everyone would know at least as much as I did.  My bad!"
Naughty, naughty.................... ;D
Seriously, Rich2, I have been "diddling" for a week; like I said, total noob. Really, the generosity of users on this forum is nothing short of remarkable - you should all have a warm and fuzzy feeling inside right now............
One thing I don't understand is the apparent lack of official information; I mean, a User Guide of 26 pages.....really, c'mon, ya gotta be pullin' me leg.....
Anyway, there are literally hundreds of questions that I have; if I can get this planet creator to create something right now, I'll keep coming back with more questions..............

Furthermore, I am not one to just take and take and [yes, you guessed it..] take; I was a high school maths and science teacher - I know how to write good tutorials and would be happy to do so once I have learnt something of use to the community.
I think that it would be really beneficial if all of the "mini tutorials" withing the forums were categorised as Beginner, Intermediate and Advanced; and then linked to a central location for access to all [but I have no idea as to how to do this; but perhaps it would at least be beneficial if there were some tutorial guidelines so that all future tutes could be linked this way].
Anyway, just throwing it out there as food for thought...........
Title: Re: Planet Creator
Post by: jo on March 28, 2012, 06:24:01 pm
Hi,

Quote from: Erwin0265 on March 28, 2012, 06:30:14 am
This I understand; but as there are lots and lots of parameters that can be changed............ this still leads me to the same question; "Where can I access the multiply and bias scalars that are hooked to the Voronoi node?"


I take it you mean "How do I find the multiply and and bias nodes to tweak this planet?". In that case you need to look inside the "Rendered Planet" node, as Rich described in his first post. Nodes can have internal networks. Those that do have a "plus" icon on their right side. You can access the internal network by double clicking on the "plus" icon, or context clicking on the node and selecting "Internal Network". You can also do it from the Rendered Planet node parameter view by clicking the internal network button (has a "network" icon) in the top right. You can also do it by going to the Node Network project view and expanding the Rendered Planet item in the node list at top left of the main window. That will show all the internal nodes.

Quote
OK, but I have yet to find any dialogue box which have these parameters. By that, I mean, where is a bias setting; where is a gain setting; where is a multiply setting?


They're talking about nodes in the network. You can find the ones used in this project as above. For example in the internal network of the Rendered Planet node there is a Bias scalar node called "Bias scalar 01". A Bias scalar node takes two scalar inputs. In this case the Bias parameter of the node is connected to the "Distance between walls" node, which is a Constant scalar node. Double click that to edit the value which is being used for bias.

Function nodes typically don't have the ability to edit the values they use in the node itself. They take their values from other nodes which are connected to them. Those values might be the results of other functions, such as a Multiply node, or they might be constants taken from Constant nodes. Constant nodes are the way you input specific values into functions.

If you mean how do you create these nodes there are two ways. One is to context click in network view. The menu that pops up has a whole lot of "Create" submenus which let you choose different types on nodes to create. The nodes you mention are all Function nodes. An easier way to see what nodes are available is to use the Node Palette, which you can open from the View menu. You can browse all the available nodes using the Node Palette. The Node Palette is documented here:

http://www.planetside.co.uk/wiki/index.php/Node_Palette

Quote
"Everything on the internal network is fully adjustable."
Yeah, but how is what I am asking..................


Depends what you mean by "how". It could be "how" as in "how do I work with nodes in the node network" or "how" as in "how does changing settings in the nodes effect the planet". If it's the former then it's our documentation problem but if it's the latter then it's up to the creator of the project to describe how things work. To be fair, Rich did mention where to find the settings which control the planet in his first post.

Quote
What is scalar value, where do I find it and what does it do?


A scalar is a number. We did actually have documentation for this, as well as information about data flow in the network, but it seems to have gone astray when the documentation system was being upgraded.

Regards,

Jo
Title: Re: Planet Creator
Post by: Hetzen on March 28, 2012, 06:48:42 pm
Quote from: Erwin0265 on March 28, 2012, 06:30:14 am
Anyway, just throwing it out there as food for thought...........


Sorry Erwin, I didn't know where you were with this. Jo has put it down very well.

You have to remember that this is a very open structure program.
Title: Re: Planet Creator
Post by: Erwin0265 on March 28, 2012, 09:43:37 pm
Jo,
I am afraid I am still very lost.
QuoteI take it you mean "How do I find the multiply and and bias nodes to tweak this planet?
- I don't know - because I am still quoting Rich's original post which says,
QuoteThe main features are controlled with multiply and bias scalars hooked to the voronoi node.

I have gone into the planet node; I must be totally blind because I simply cannot find any of what you mention:-
QuoteFor example in the internal network of the Rendered Planet node there is a Bias scalar node called "Bias scalar 01". A Bias scalar node takes two scalar inputs. In this case the Bias parameter of the node is connected to the "Distance between walls" node, which is a Constant scalar node. Double click that to edit the value which is being used for bias.

QuoteWe did actually have documentation for this,

Sorry, but that doesn't really help me right now..........
QuoteIn this case the Bias parameter of the node is connected to the "Distance between walls" node, which is a Constant scalar node.

I can't find a bias parameter, nor a distance between walls node. Telling me that it is a Constant scalar; you may as well tell me it's a Fubbyloofer - because I still don't know what a scalar is [remember, notes gone.........].
OK, I'm going to stop here because it seems the more I ask, the more jargon I get back. Jargon is fine, but with no context or a comprehensive glossary [the one I found only had already explained terms, like node], I have no hope of understanding.
QuoteYou have to remember that this is a very open structure program.
What do you mean by "open structure"? I find Vue's Function Editor to be equally open and laid out, if that is what you mean.............?
PLEASE; any explanations in English [minus jargon] would be appreciated.
Screencaps would also be great..........
Thanks for your efforts - don't give up on me.............
BTW, I don't know what a Fubbyloofer is either; I made it up..................;-)
Title: Re: Planet Creator
Post by: Kadri on March 28, 2012, 10:55:27 pm
Quote from: Erwin0265 on March 27, 2012, 06:55:23 am
Hi,
I'm a total noob;
"Now, there are some things some of you may need to know: the settings for the planet object are embedded within the "Rendered Planet" object node.  You will have to right-click on the object and go to "Internal Network".  There is where it all happens." 
This bit I understand............
...
Erwin


I think you didn't understand this.
I don't know why you can not see this.
Rich made the nodes very clear labeled too.

Look at the images here.


Title: Re: Planet Creator
Post by: jo on March 28, 2012, 11:09:14 pm
Hi,

Quote from: Erwin0265 on March 28, 2012, 09:43:37 pm
Jo,
I am afraid I am still very lost.
QuoteI take it you mean "How do I find the multiply and and bias nodes to tweak this planet?
- I don't know - because I am still quoting Rich's original post which says,
QuoteThe main features are controlled with multiply and bias scalars hooked to the voronoi node.

I have gone into the planet node; I must be totally blind because I simply cannot find any of what you mention:-


Did you go to the *internal network* of the planet as I described how to do? Rich also told you exactly how to do find these settings in his first post. Instructions and help aren't much use if you don't follow them :-).

Double clicking the node *will not* get you to the internal network of the node. This opens the parameter view for the node. The parameter view is where you can change settings/parameters for that specific node. If you follow the instructions given to open the internal network of the planet node you will find what you are looking for.

Quote
QuoteFor example in the internal network of the Rendered Planet node there is a Bias scalar node called "Bias scalar 01". A Bias scalar node takes two scalar inputs. In this case the Bias parameter of the node is connected to the "Distance between walls" node, which is a Constant scalar node. Double click that to edit the value which is being used for bias.

Sorry, but that doesn't really help me right now..........


Yes it does. I told you what you need to know:

- The settings you are looking for are in the *internal network* of the Rendered Planet node. We told you how to get to the internal network in multiple ways.
- The settings described (bias, multiply etc.) are represented as nodes in the node network.
- I described how the settings work. For example there is a Bias node which applies a bias function (this is documented in the node reference). To change the Bias function you need to edit the value being input, which is represented by the "Distance between walls" node, which is a Constant scalar node (also documented).

I presume as a maths teacher you are familiar with mathematical functions. Function nodes (the blue nodes in the network) are a graphical representation of a mathematical function. They have inputs and an output. You connect other nodes to them to provide these inputs. These nodes might represent other calculations (variables in maths terms I suppose) or they might represent constants (constants in the maths terms).

Think of the Bias node as a function like f(x, b). f() is the function (Bias in this case). x and b are inputs. In this particular case (if you look in the internal network of the "Rendered Planet" node as instructed) the x input is the result of the "Multiply scalar 01" node. The b input comes from the "Distance between walls" node which is a constant scalar. In pseudo maths it might be like:

result = f( x, b )
where:
f() is the Bias function
x is the result of the "Multiply scalar 01" node
b is the scalar (number) value output by the "Distance between walls" node, a constant scalar. The b input controls the Bias curve (described in the docs).

Mathematically speaking in this situation x is a variable and b is a constant.

Quote
QuoteIn this case the Bias parameter of the node is connected to the "Distance between walls" node, which is a Constant scalar node.

I can't find a bias parameter, nor a distance between walls node.


Did you look at the internal network of the Rendered Planet node as I described how to do? Because it's all there. Did you try what both Rich and I described?

Quote
Telling me that it is a Constant scalar; you may as well tell me it's a Fubbyloofer - because I still don't know what a scalar is [remember, notes gone.........].


I *did* tell you want a scalar is. It's a number, simple as that. A Constant scalar node outputs a number. Double click the node in the network view to open its parameter view and change the number.

As a background there are three main types of data used in function node (blue node) networks. Scalars are single numbers. Vectors are sets of three scalars, typically corresponding to X, Y an Z coordinates. Colours are sets of three scalars treated as being RGB values. The names of function nodes typically have "scalar", "vector" or "colour" appended to them to describe what sort of data they primarily deal with. However TG2 will automatically convert data of one sort into another if needed, or there are nodes to do it explicitly.

Scalar isn't really jargon anyway, it's a mathematical term. We didn't make it up.

This stuff is quite advanced in terms of TG2 usage. Function networks are really the most advanced thing you can do with TG2. It's graphical maths programming. Using function nodes is not essential to making great scenes with TG2. They're more to let you expand on what is offered by TG2. This is what is meant by it being an open system. You can do things we never envisaged, we just provide the building blocks to do it. As such we can document the function nodes (and they're virtually all documented) but if you want to understand what someone has done with them either they need to document it or you need to figure out what they've done.

Now quite obviously you have missed the fact that these nodes (bias, multiply etc.) people are talking about are in the internal network of the "Rendered Planet" node. Hopefully things will be a little clearer if you follow the instructions we've provided. It might beg further questions so I provided the background information above to fill things in a bit. As a maths teacher you may find that function nodes are quite easy to use if you understand the maths - all you need to do is hook them together to create equations.

Regards,

Jo
Title: Re: Planet Creator
Post by: RichTwo on March 29, 2012, 10:54:36 am
Wow - I'm impressed with myself!  I don't think I've ever posted anything here that generated two pages of comments... ::)

Though I do appreciate the support that the members and staff are always willing to give!  I hope Erwin is able to suss it out.
Title: Re: Planet Creator
Post by: Erwin0265 on April 01, 2012, 03:05:26 am
QuoteI think you didn't understand this.
I don't know why you can not see this.
Rich made the nodes very clear labeled too.

Thank you!!!!
Kadri, you've saved my sanity [what little there is of it]; for me,I am very much a visual learner.
As soon as I looked at the uploaded images you posted, I realised that you were in fact right; I didn't understand; I was mixing up the settings with the Internal Network [both being offerings when you right-click on the planet object node].
So I had this dialogue window but couldn't find all of the mentioned settings.
Now I have found them...........
Rich has indeed labelled them quite clearly.
Being a primarily visual learner [and the fact that I am on very high doses of Oxycontin for a degenerative nerve/muscle disorder which scrambles my brain...] gave me this mental block which just prevented me from "Getting it".
I know I am deviating from my original questions, but I'd just like to make the point that people learn in many different ways; visual, written, spoken, tactile [a bit impractical over the Net ;-)], etc.
When you post something to help educate others, keep this in mind. This is because we tend to teach others in the way that we primarily learn.
So if we are a person who learns mostly from reading; we tend to try to teach the same way; ie. in writing.
You all probably notice that the best tutorials have writing, images and sometimes even a video as well. This covers most people's primary learning mode.

Having said all that, I know that I have to take quite some time to mull over the information withing this thread; so I am not going to confuse myself further [or frustrate others further] by asking more questions at this stage.

Thank you all for you perseverance with me; I will "be back" after I have had some time to go through all of this.

Cheers
Erwin
Title: Re: Planet Creator
Post by: TheBadger on April 01, 2012, 03:07:50 pm
I'm a visual learner too.
Title: Re: Planet Creator
Post by: Kadri on April 01, 2012, 05:01:28 pm

Me too  ;)
Title: Re: Planet Creator
Post by: Erwin0265 on April 01, 2012, 06:56:23 pm
I thought you might be, Kadri as you were the only one to post images which, ultimately, is what helped me the most...........
Let's face it, being artists in a visual medium, it would be pretty unusual if we didn't do at least a fair chunk of our learning visually..........