Planetside Software Forums

General => Image Sharing => NWDA Roadside Contest => Topic started by: mhaze on March 02, 2013, 03:55:40 PM

Title: Mick's Road
Post by: mhaze on March 02, 2013, 03:55:40 PM
OK, here's my start. I've included the source pic.  I was drawn to this as we have a hill just like around the corner!
Title: Re: Mick's Road
Post by: FrankB on March 03, 2013, 12:32:53 AM
Great, the terrain is quite close to the original. What are you going to do next? Work on the vegetation on road texture?

Cheers,
Frank
Title: Re: Mick's Road
Post by: TheBadger on March 06, 2013, 06:24:29 AM
There are a few roads like that where I live. I feel a little dizzy just from the op image.

This one should be fun!
Title: Re: Mick's Road
Post by: mhaze on March 06, 2013, 09:03:59 AM
Next stage - still work to do on road and trees to add.  Then.....
Title: Re: Mick's Road
Post by: FrankB on March 06, 2013, 11:57:05 AM
the foreground roadside looks beautiful!
Title: Re: Mick's Road
Post by: mhaze on March 06, 2013, 12:53:34 PM
cheers all - getting there slowly
Title: Re: Mick's Road
Post by: cyphyr on March 06, 2013, 12:59:41 PM
Looking good but check your scale, something seems a bit "off" to me. Just my opinion mind but I think maybe the road is too narrow for the size of the plants and the road markings and posts. Making the markings/posts and to an extent the plants about 20% to 30% smaller would fix this.
Cheers
Richard
Title: Re: Mick's Road
Post by: mhaze on March 06, 2013, 01:40:18 PM
Yep I think you're right. will play
Title: Re: Mick's Road
Post by: Oshyan on March 06, 2013, 09:02:07 PM
Man, with this and the other WIP threads, it looks like this contest is shaping up to have the highest quality entries ever. :)

- Oshyan
Title: Re: Mick's Road
Post by: FrankB on March 06, 2013, 09:50:32 PM
Agree with Oshyan, everyone's working hard to push the boundaries here.

Except TU maybe, it seems like he gave up ;-)

Title: Re: Mick's Road
Post by: Dune on March 07, 2013, 06:27:44 AM
Or he likes to raise the tension a bit  8) Actually, he's busy, I gather.
Title: Re: Mick's Road
Post by: Hannes on March 07, 2013, 12:45:11 PM
Very promising. I agree about the width of the road.
It's always great to have a reference image to achieve as much photoreality as possible.
Title: Re: Mick's Road
Post by: mhaze on March 10, 2013, 10:55:22 AM
Next Stage - lots to do.  Improve the moon and sky, sort the lighting improve the road texture and add the focal point
Title: Re: Mick's Road
Post by: cyphyr on March 10, 2013, 11:21:36 AM
Looking very good :)
The road width proportion is better, maybe make the lines just a little thinner and you've nailed it. I like the subtle lighting, moonlight is incredibly hard to get even close to right. I'm not sure if it's technically accurate but such scenes often have a bluish hue, certainly in the shadows, are you planning to add this?
Keep up the good work:)
Richard
Title: Re: Mick's Road
Post by: Tangled-Universe on March 10, 2013, 11:29:53 AM
Well, I have to disagree with Richard. In my humble opinion and definitely to my personal taste I like daylight much better.
If you get the moonlight to work then that would be absolutely fantastic, but I have barely seen a photorealistic, let alone realistic render with moonlight.
It's an extremely tough nut to crack, so I would give it some thought before putting much precious time and effort into getting this type of lighting to work + meeting the aims of the contest.
So far I must say it doesn't look bad at all when you look at the vegetation.

About the vegetation: perhaps you can decrease the scales of the vegetation by half to give the image more depth and scale.
The road may seem a bit wide then.
You can of course also increase camera height to 'fix' this, but still there would only be X number of trees in between the camera and the distant hill instead of 2*X trees, see?

When I build my scenes I often start my populating my scene with trees to get a fix on my scales and final POV.
The size variation I set to those trees will be the size variations for almost all the other models I load into the scene, given that they use similar scales in metres (for example).
Title: Re: Mick's Road
Post by: mhaze on March 10, 2013, 11:45:07 AM
Thanks for the comments.  I don't think I will change the scales much as I want the claustrophobic feel of the larger trees you'll see why ;) I'm going to try a day and night version, again you'll see why and then decide.  I agree moonlight is tough, I don't think its even possible to get realism and a fully detailed image, too much is lost in realistic shadow but as I've said before realism isn't everything the mood is more important.
Title: Re: Mick's Road
Post by: mhaze on March 15, 2013, 09:25:15 AM
Next Gen - still alot to do and I'm on holiday next week!
Title: Re: Mick's Road
Post by: Gannaingh on March 15, 2013, 04:31:16 PM
Looking good! The vegetation is looking nice.
Title: Re: Mick's Road
Post by: mhaze on March 15, 2013, 05:16:55 PM
Not happy with the tree distribution so I will have to work on that but at least I have some good trees to work with! Just spent two days working on the fence nearly got it sorted now.
Title: Re: Mick's Road
Post by: choronr on March 15, 2013, 05:56:41 PM
Looking so fine. The quality of these endeavors are amazing.
Title: Re: Mick's Road
Post by: FrankB on March 15, 2013, 08:11:09 PM
yeah, this is looking mighty fine  :)
Title: Re: Mick's Road
Post by: mhaze on March 15, 2013, 09:21:42 PM
I've changed the light and tree distribution. I'll add a few single trees, bushes and some more roadside plants when I get back.
Title: Re: Mick's Road
Post by: Jo Kariboo on March 16, 2013, 12:58:06 AM
I like the two last one !  :)
I am not certain that the moon is necessary.
Title: Re: Mick's Road
Post by: mhaze on March 16, 2013, 08:16:26 AM
Cheers all, thanks for the comments and encouragement. Off now for a week which will give me a chance to think about the pic and where I want to go with it.

Joe, you could be right I'll have to try it without.  The road reminds me of a launch pad hence the moon ;)
Title: Re: Mick's Road
Post by: TheBadger on March 17, 2013, 08:05:20 AM
Great realization of your concept/source!!! Now you can just tweak everything until submission time.


Im inclined to hate on the moon too. Then again, when rendered at top quality maybe it will be real nice.
But just in terms of the image as we see it now, the moon is real over kill.
Title: Re: Mick's Road
Post by: Tangled-Universe on March 17, 2013, 10:38:33 AM
Looks better and better with each iteration :)
Can't wait to see this rendered with soft shadows and nicely tuned AA.


The moon is picture perfect centred and is distracting in my opinion.
Title: Re: Mick's Road
Post by: Dune on March 17, 2013, 04:44:03 PM
Agreed about the moon. I would also reduce the impact of the ruts in the tarmac, or make them softer. I don't think all cars would have used the same ruts, deepening it so precisely. Also, what's the thing in the left verge; a rock? I would take it out. And add something of interest, there's not really a focal point yet, IMHO. Beam of light, object..... whatever.
But it's getting very nice, no matter what I say.
Title: Re: Mick's Road
Post by: Hannes on March 17, 2013, 05:17:08 PM
Totally agree with Dune! Otherwise great image. Can't wait to see the final one.
Title: Re: Mick's Road
Post by: gregsandor on March 18, 2013, 12:09:44 AM
 I would suggest adding dead leaf and branch clutter in the lowest part of the valley where it tends to collect by gravity and rain.  Still keep greenery there, but mix in some weathered forest debris.
Title: Re: Mick's Road
Post by: mhaze on March 18, 2013, 06:27:04 PM
Cheers all moon will go. Dune i noticed the ruts they are on my todo list and yes there wll be a focus but im saving that for last
Title: Re: Mick's Road - nearly?
Post by: mhaze on March 25, 2013, 08:47:39 PM
Next incarnation - not yet rendered at high res, await your comments first
Title: Re: Mick's Road
Post by: Hetzen on March 25, 2013, 11:01:04 PM
Hi Mick. My first thought was that I wouldn't want to be following a caravan up that road!!! ;D It's probably a bit too steep, but perhaps the deep groove in the distant road should be tempered with a distance shader. Good compositional story though.

Maybe a slightly different pov. You've got three accents that could do with better framing with the horizon. Maybe bring the sign much closer left top and have the rodent on an axis of eye drift with the buzzard? Forming a triangle with the road peak.
Title: Re: Mick's Road
Post by: choronr on March 25, 2013, 11:20:41 PM
Extra fine realism here Mick. The only thing I would change is use high Cirrus clouds instead. Wonder if the mouse will dart underneath and past the owl?
Title: Re: Mick's Road
Post by: mhaze on March 26, 2013, 12:41:53 AM
Thanks for the comments not sure why the black streak is so strong - it's just appeared may be a resolution thing, I'll have to play with that.


Hetzen, I agree. I'm not quite happy with the scaling yet or the composition so more experimenting there.  We actually have a road this steep in Yorkshire, actually signposted no caravans! I've taken a motorhome up it but took the alternative route to avoid going down it

choronr, The clouds are a relic from an earlier idea, maybe it's time to change them too, hmmmm.
Title: Re: Mick's Road
Post by: Dune on March 26, 2013, 06:54:59 AM
It's looking great. A few comments still; the mouse is a bit too much I think, it looks like a cartoon character and takes away some of the realism. I would altogether take out mouse and buzzard/hawk. And the puddle below as well. And perhaps a bit more translucency in the left upper leaves...
Title: Re: Mick's Road
Post by: mhaze on March 26, 2013, 04:38:35 PM
Yet another try - I like the composition better in this one.  I'll  maybe add the mouse after some more work on it, the hunting owl looks hungry ;)  Not sure about the sky - I tried a stormy sky but although it added to the mood it killed the light.  I may intensify the cirrus a little more.  Sadly I felt I had to lose the sign as it just didn't fit the composition.  Does the mist need to come forwards toward us us a little?
Title: Re: Mick's Road
Post by: otakar on March 26, 2013, 04:55:16 PM
I do like the drama, but it's almost a pity that the 'hunt' takes attention away from the rest of the scene. It's also hard to make it photoreal. Maybe move it away from the camera a bit, not sure. Setup is sweet, I like the plants a lot.

Edit: posted my comments before the last render was published. I kind of like the change. Maybe the owl should be a bit off-center?
Title: Re: Mick's Road
Post by: Hetzen on March 26, 2013, 09:38:29 PM
We actually have a road this steep in Yorkshire, actually signposted no caravans! I've taken a motorhome up it but took the alternative route to avoid going down it.

 :D

I really don't think this scene is far off Mick. I've typed a few more thoughts if you'll allow me.

If you move the camera to the road edge on the left, you could rotate the camera to get the horizon on the road peak to be broken up by follaige on the left (might need an object placement to get right) so clouds wouldn't be such an issue and would help in not splitting the screen up to draw the eye to them. Put some reflectivity on the road, fallen leaves and posts. That displacement shadow on the far road centre line right looks like a very big rut in the road, is this intentional? Your white lines could do with about 0.015 displacement so they lift off the road slightly, road paint has some depth that might catch highlights and help with how they tringulate (when faceted at render). If you do move the camera, you may have to move the sun location to get better shadows on you populations.

Seriously, the work is there Mick. The populations look very natural. If you follow Martin's very good render advice I think you've got a very good submission.
Title: Re: Mick's Road
Post by: mhaze on March 26, 2013, 10:38:07 PM
Hi Hetzen, your ideas, as always, are interesting. I may do two versions, one as is, faithful to the original source image and one with a different pov and maybe some curve in the road. The rut is actually a black tire mark but it's maybe a tad too strong.  The paint has had depth added but adding dirty marks seems to have flattened them so I'll work on that and give them some reflection what a good idea). More leaves are on the to do list and I'll add some reflection to them. For some unknown reason adding reflection to the road looks horrible so I may not add that, again on the to do list as something to work on.

otakar, Thanks for the comment. I rather like the coming at you feel of the owl but I can see the aesthetic value of shifting it to one side - I'll try it.
Title: Re: Mick's Road
Post by: ajcgi on March 27, 2013, 05:53:11 PM
This does look excellent and has a scary feel to it. I certainly wouldn't want to take a caravan up there, but... delete the owl entirely imo.
Title: Re: Mick's Road
Post by: inkydigit on March 27, 2013, 07:54:08 PM
the amount of details here make all the difference!
that hill is crazy...I wonder ho far you could get up the other side from freewheeling a bike?!
:)
Title: Re: Mick's Road Final?
Post by: mhaze on April 01, 2013, 05:18:44 PM
Probably my final - at1600x1024 it took22hrs 20 mins to render, detail.8 aa 12  how big a file can I send? as the original is 4.6MB
Title: Re: Mick's Road
Post by: Dune on April 01, 2013, 05:57:00 PM
Extremely nice!
Title: Re: Mick's Road
Post by: Tangled-Universe on April 01, 2013, 06:03:40 PM
Looks really nice Mick :)
Of course it's never finished, so you can keep on tweaking, also after you've submitted it.
The last submission we've received from every contestant is the final one.


If I'm correct we should be able to receive up to 10MB attachments, so 4.6 is absolutely fine!


Cheers,
Martin
Title: Re: Mick's Road
Post by: TheBadger on April 01, 2013, 06:27:41 PM
GREAT!!!!!!


Yeah keep tweaking as long as you can. One thing I would change is the white road divider on the hill. Where I live that would be solid, because passing on a blind hill like that (even in the country side) can get you killed. Also, did you use soft shadow?
Title: Re: Mick's Road
Post by: choronr on April 01, 2013, 06:32:25 PM
Very good Mick, this one is pushing the realism envelope.
Title: Re: Mick's Road
Post by: mhaze on April 01, 2013, 06:42:04 PM
Thanks for the kind comments - I may well go on tweaking TU but I need to spend a couple of days away from it so I can see it anew.  Badger good point but I want to stay close to my source which has a dotted line( but a double in the foreground which I may add).  Yes, soft shadows are set at default. I was wondering about making them slightly softer what do you think?
Title: Re: Mick's Road
Post by: inkydigit on April 01, 2013, 06:59:55 PM
An excellent update Mick!


:)
Jason
Title: Re: Mick's Road
Post by: masonspappy on April 01, 2013, 09:42:46 PM
That's a great image! Well concieved and well executed. My only comment is, should the Yield sign be closer to the road?
- Cam
Title: Re: Mick's Road
Post by: TheBadger on April 02, 2013, 01:47:54 AM
  Yes, soft shadows are set at default. I was wondering about making them slightly softer what do you think?


Im just nitpicking. Maybe try it.
Although, I often don't like how a test makes me feel about the image, and then like it very much when the image is done large and at the final res. So, just sharing impressions for you to consider.
Title: Re: Mick's Road
Post by: j meyer on April 16, 2013, 02:57:04 PM
Me likey!
Especially that you kept the central perspective.And the bird,the fog,the veggies,
really nice.
Title: Re: Mick's Road
Post by: mhaze on April 18, 2013, 09:03:20 AM
Thankyou.