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General => Terragen Discussion => Topic started by: Sethren on June 02, 2007, 12:59:04 am

Title: Cloud Types
Post by: Sethren on June 02, 2007, 12:59:04 am
Curious if anyone has attempted clouds such as these which were done in Art Matic Voyager, a mac based terrain renderer designed by Eric Wenger who is the brains behind most of Bryce.

http://www.artmatica.ch/amv/html/preset_collections/clouds/bands11.html

http://www.artmatica.ch/amv/html/preset_collections/clouds/cc1.html

http://www.artmatica.ch/amv/html/preset_collections/clouds/cirruscomb.html

The cloud banding/patterns seems very realistic in spite of the so-so atmospherics and sun.
Title: Re: Cloud Types
Post by: Oshyan on June 02, 2007, 01:11:07 am
I have definitely been impressed in the past with some of the cloud patterns Artmatic Voyager can create. I think we may need some new noise patterns or some fancy function network manipulation to achieve something to match those shapes. But I'd love to be proved wrong. ;D

Actually the middle picture ought to be-doable with a billows noise type, some compression on one axis of the noise function, and then another larger noise function as a blend shader. The others may be achievable too, but I think they'd require more trickiness.

- Oshyan
Title: Re: Cloud Types
Post by: Sethren on June 02, 2007, 02:04:33 am
I tend to think new noise patterns are a great idea and not only for clouds but for terrain surfacing as well. I say this because in nature there are so many types of patterns everywhere it's amazing what is scene even on a macro-scale. I think just a small handful of a few new noises could do it because they could further be manipulated with all ready existing node functions i would imagine to create nice hybrid noise types.

I think noises like chipped/slate rock, cracks/vein (for leafs, broken stones) , marble, ripples (i have seen terrains that looked rippled i think in the sahara desert) , wood (imagine using this for bark), and some type of new swirly noise for coriolis/cirrus effects.

Here is that rippled terrain, neat stuff.

http://maps.google.com/maps?ie=UTF8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&q=&t=k&om=1&ll=34.194907,2.928715&spn=0.105212,0.160675&z=13
Title: Re: Cloud Types
Post by: RealUser on June 02, 2007, 11:12:36 am
These patterns are very nice. I would love to have them in TG2 or alternatively would like to know how to make them with the existing noises.
Title: Re: Cloud Types
Post by: moodflow on June 02, 2007, 02:05:03 pm
yea, we just need more fractal options.

I've been trying to pull off the cumulocirrus look as seen in the second link:
http://www.artmatica.ch/amv/html/preset_collections/clouds/cc1.html

But no luck yet.  I think it may require an image mask.

I did pull off a full sized anvil style thunderhead in TG2 a few months ago, but I'll have to post the pics later (as I am stuck at work).

Title: Re: Cloud Types
Post by: bigben on June 02, 2007, 10:30:56 pm
If people can make good sand dunes, why not just move them up into the sky... ;)  similar principles, similar math.
Title: Re: Cloud Types
Post by: Sethren on June 02, 2007, 10:51:43 pm
Quote from: bigben on June 02, 2007, 10:30:56 pm
If people can make good sand dunes, why not just move them up into the sky... ;)  similar principles, similar math.


Should be very possible i would think.     :)
Title: Re: Cloud Types
Post by: Oshyan on June 03, 2007, 03:59:30 pm
Yes, exactly. I was thinking of the sand dune functions...

- Oshyan
Title: Re: Cloud Types
Post by: eonite on June 08, 2007, 05:11:43 pm
I have noticed some traffic on my site coming from your forum. This made me curious...

I`m running the Artmatica site and I am also the author of the Artmatic Voyager clouds pictures.

If anyone has specific questions on how I create them, feel free to ask.

-eonite
Title: Re: Cloud Types
Post by: Will on June 08, 2007, 05:15:11 pm
Hey, welcome to the planetside forums! We are just admiring your great work with those clouds, their shape is pretty realistic. Was it done using fractal? Thats what people are generally using around here.

Regards,

Will
Title: Re: Cloud Types
Post by: eonite on June 08, 2007, 06:35:12 pm
Thanks Will!

Yeah, fractal noise functions are great. They work equally well for surfaces as for clouds (and nebulae). I`m often using fractal and ridged fractal noise functions for cloud texturing and for the shapes of the clouds.

In many cases I create the shapes with primitives like dots or lines, which I then distort with fractal and other displace functions.
Then I add a texture, which is sometimes a combination of several fractal (and other) noises.

It`s funny, bigben wrote that dunes could be used as clouds. My sand ripples and my banded clouds are in fact very similar.
(Both are shaped by the wind)

- eonite

Title: Re: Cloud Types
Post by: buchvecny on June 13, 2007, 05:52:51 pm
damn .. now we need a guy to make the theory work :( The TG2 is still too slow for me, to experiment. In TG1 even when i wuzz running slow processor it would spit out 800x600 in minutes with recognizable details. Now i have to wait for thing like this overnight :((
Title: Re: Cloud Types
Post by: old_blaggard on June 16, 2007, 01:47:56 pm
I set a render with this going on my computer.  It takes a really long time (I wouldn't recommend to anyone mixing function nodes and clouds), but it should be done when I get back home in a few weeks.
Title: Re: Cloud Types
Post by: Will on June 16, 2007, 02:49:28 pm
should be...
Title: Re: Cloud Types
Post by: FrankB on June 17, 2007, 02:22:34 pm
I've made an image that looks pretty similair to the first reference - I'm wondering now if I have ever published at beyond the alpha forum... I think not, but can't remember exactly.
Anyways, I remember I have done it using a large scale blendshader, and a mid-scale cloud shader. The cloud shader was disorted heavily with a warp and redirect shader along x and z. It really looked pretty similair to the first reference image.
Getting the effect requires lots of luck with the results of the noise functions, so some experimenting and re-seeding is involved.

Wait, I'll get it from the alpha forum.....

OK, should be attached now. Apologies should I have shown already somewhere else.

Cheers,
Frank

Quote from: Sethren on June 02, 2007, 12:59:04 am
Curious if anyone has attempted clouds such as these which were done in Art Matic Voyager, a mac based terrain renderer designed by Eric Wenger who is the brains behind most of Bryce.

http://www.artmatica.ch/amv/html/preset_collections/clouds/bands11.html

http://www.artmatica.ch/amv/html/preset_collections/clouds/cc1.html

http://www.artmatica.ch/amv/html/preset_collections/clouds/cirruscomb.html

The cloud banding/patterns seems very realistic in spite of the so-so atmospherics and sun.
Title: Re: Cloud Types
Post by: bigben on June 17, 2007, 07:28:55 pm
very interesting image Frank... especially without an image map.
Title: Re: Cloud Types
Post by: moodflow on June 18, 2007, 06:28:29 pm
Frank,

Would you happen to have the tgd or tgc file for this?  This is really nice and I'd like to see how it was pulled off.
Title: Re: Cloud Types
Post by: Mr_Lamppost on August 06, 2007, 07:26:48 pm
I had a go at making something similar a while ago, I was combining two cloud fractal shaders one to create a lot of small clouds and another to form these into larger patches.

Here is a small test I made at the time, I have a larger, better quality version cooking at the moment and will post that when it is finished. 

There is probably a way to get a more banded distribution of the small clouds using functions.  I will give that a try when I get the chance.

Title: Re: Cloud Types
Post by: old_blaggard on August 06, 2007, 08:22:59 pm
Looking good so far.  Beware about using functions with cloud distribution.  I tried that once, and it just soaked up render time.
Title: Re: Cloud Types
Post by: Mr_Lamppost on August 07, 2007, 05:10:45 pm
The render time on this one is none to clever.  I will need to look at the node network but I remember adding a couple of "Fudge Factor" functions that may well be slowing things down. 

Didn't someone make some Voronoi clouds a while ago?  I can't find the post but I don't think any renders ever got finished.
Title: Re: Cloud Types
Post by: eonite on August 08, 2007, 09:43:19 am
Hi all,

I know that it does not really belong into this forum but since Sethren started the thread putting links to some of my cloud pictures I though it might interest you.
I have just released 3 Cloud Sets for Artmatic Voyager. On the preview pages there are many new examples. They are supposed to represent the collections.

Here are  the links. You will find the pictures at the bottom of the pages.

http://artmatica.ch/amv/html/preset_collections/clouds_set_A/clouds_set_A.html
http://artmatica.ch/amv/html/preset_collections/clouds_set_B/clouds_set_B.html
http://artmatica.ch/amv/html/preset_collections/clouds_set_C/clouds_set_C.html

Please note that I have no intention to turn you away from Terragen but rather to encourage anyone to get into node based editing (which has many parallels with the way Artmatic works).
One could say it`s the programming language for graphic artists. It takes some time to get acquainted with it but it`s definitely worth the time invested.
There are probably some of you who are a bit confused or find that node base editing is too technical.
But finally it`s just another language one has to learn.
I am neither a technician nor mathematically inclined and I really had to force myself to get into it. But finally, once you know how it works, it`s very easy and then benefit will be that you gain a great amount of freedom over your artworks.

Cheers,

eonite
Title: Re: Cloud Types
Post by: moodflow on August 08, 2007, 10:22:18 am
I agree, Artmatic Voyager probably has some of the most amazing looking cirrus clouds I've seen in an app so far.  I know TG2 could pull off the same effects, but it will require more work at this stage.  However, I think TG2 has it made when it comes to cumulus.

Its a shame Artmatic Voyager is MAC only  :-\