Hey all,
I'm considering expanding my 3D arsenal and the 2 programs I'm looking at right now are Carrara and Blender. Has anyone used either of these significantly or can recommend or caution against one or the other or otherwise point to a better program? And yes, I know all about Maya and Modo and Cinema 4d, but my budget is only a couple hundred bucks.
Blender is free.......................
Quote from: yossam on December 16, 2013, 02:31:33 PM
Blender is free.......................
I know, but cost isn't the only factor. If I can get something that's even better than Blender, and I've heard good things about Blender, and only for a small monetary investment, then I'll get that instead. Obviously, I can just download Blender right now, but there is the additional investment of time to learn the program that is also considered. I already had Blender before and deleted it, because I could tell right off the bat that learning it was going to take weeks, if not months.
Rumor has it the UI is going to get a major update in the near future.
Carrara is brilliant, I've used it since v5, which you can probably find the complete Pro version still online, they released it freely a couple of years back. Of course, you wouldn't have all the newer features then, hard/soft body physics, new volumetric cloud/fire/fog engine, new ocean primitives, displacement(slowish but works very well on any surface) wind, etc. It's so easy to use, unlike Blender, which I have but never ever got used to, or even liked actually, I have heard and seen great things that others have done with it, though.
I would definitely go for Carrara, it does everything, is super-fast(both UI and the ray-tracer), the animation is fantastic to use. The only part that has never impressed me is the built in plant creator/editor, the realism just isn't there, a shame, there are tons of other plant softwares that I'd much rather use.
I got Bryce when they were giving it away but I haven't use it. I tried Blender a long time ago but its UI was stone age.
Blender is part of my work-stream in just about every image I post here. I liken Blender to a bare room that is covered floor to ceiling with knobs, switches, dials, readouts, indicators and displays. It is capable of doing incredible things IF you can just figure out how all those things work with each other. Unfortunately, the documentation is sparse, often missing and more often than not it's out of date. ( frankly, the whole documentation thing is what separates a 'wannabe' professional package from a true professional package. )
But you can do some damned amazing things with it if you are lucky enough to figure out how pieces of it work together.
Maya/Max should be free for you for 3 years (and then available for a greatly reduced price after) if you ever went to school, at a school that is registered with autodesk, which is most schools. Or if you have kids.
Im inclined more to Carrara based on what I have seen. But one turn off for me is the gallery at their webpage. Blender looks a lot better in terms of what people do with it. On the other hand, I think they use the gallery to promote their other products so it may not be a good example of what can be done.
What is your goal ? Do you want a good modeler or renderer. Or both?
3dcoat does have a $101 discount for 15 days just now for example.
If you want Zbrush but can not afford it.That would be a good investment .
It is $278 now. I am really considering this . http://3d-coat.com/buy-now/
It does have its own drawbacks if you investigate it a little on the web.
Some are software related and some about this page " http://3d-coat.com/company/our-voice/ "
I hate that but others may like it. Anyway...
Together with Terragen that would cover many things.
If you want an all around package Lightwave does have a discount too:
https://www.lightwave3d.com/buy-lightwave/ it is from $1495 to $995 for now.
If you say that it is more then you want to buy it does have an educational discount too there down on that page for $195 .
Before i bought Lightwave i tried to like Blender.
But even that it was free i bought Lightwave in the end.
I will "try to like" Blender ones more next year. It is like a habit now.
Who knows maybe i get to that " Ahaaaa! " moment this year :)
Quote from: Kadri on December 17, 2013, 04:59:45 AM
What is your goal ? Do you want a good modeler or renderer. Or both?
Yeah, I should have stated that right away. Right now, I'm looking for a good modeller. I'm currently using Hexagon and have a love/hate relationship with it. I would be willing to spend $100-200 just for a really good, less buggy modeller that is as intuitive as Hex. But I also want to look towards the future. I also wouldn't mind dabbling in animation and stuff, so if a program has that, as well, that's just more icing on the cake. But they don't have to be the same program, there could be multiple programs. Zbrush, 3dcoat. I've heard the names before, but I don't know enough about them to know if I can use their features for my needs.
In any event you guys have given me actually more to think about, and I don't need it immediately, so if I need to save up some more money and buy something higher end, I can do that too. I also was looking at upgrading to the animation version of Terragen 3, which I could probably put to use, as well. Decisions, decisions...
If you're looking for a good modeler you should definitely try Wings3D.It's free btw.
Quote from: j meyer on December 17, 2013, 12:56:06 PM
If you're looking for a good modeler you should definitely try Wings3D.It's free btw.
Yeah, I've downloaded Wings, too. I think it has promise, but its so alien to what I'm used to. And the tutorials on YT aren't the best. :-\
Anything - or at least most - you need is displayed in the bottom line
of wings3ds main window.
And here is a good source for learning some of the more complicated
things . http://www.wings3d.com/paulthepuzzles/aardvarks.html
Might take a while,but it's worth it.
Quote from: Kadri on December 17, 2013, 04:59:45 AM
Some are software related and some about this page " http://3d-coat.com/company/our-voice/ "
I hate that but others may like it. Anyway...
I took a minute to explore your links. That is by far the weirdest thing I've come across on a 3D page.
Actually, now that I've had a second to look at it, I think 3D Coat might be what I'm looking for. A combination of that, Hexagon, Wings 3D, Blender and Terragen should give me everything I need. Looks like I have until the end of the month to decide.
Yes strange indeed!
I am using the demo right now.
There are things that i don't like but every software does have them.
Looks like for the price it is OK!
It would be easier for me if that page wasn't there actually.
Quote from: Kadri on December 18, 2013, 11:33:25 AM
It would be easier for me if that page wasn't there actually.
Sounds like someone's been a bad boy... lol
I've downloaded Blender and done a bit of working with it. The newest UI is a quadrillion times better than the old one, and while a bit difficult to learn, I believe can be mastered. One thing I am beginning to appreciate is the selection of mode which brings different tool into play.
Most of my modeling is ship and/or mechanical in nature so I use TurboCad and want to bring the resultant objects into TG for scenic placement.
Ed
Quote from: TheBadger on December 16, 2013, 06:49:20 PM
Maya/Max should be free for you for 3 years (and then available for a greatly reduced price after) if you ever went to school, at a school that is registered with autodesk, which is most schools. Or if you have kids.
Im inclined more to Carrara based on what I have seen. But one turn off for me is the gallery at their webpage. Blender looks a lot better in terms of what people do with it. On the other hand, I think they use the gallery to promote their other products so it may not be a good example of what can be done.
Maya is not free / was not free/ will never be free. I think of myself as a student of life, does that count?
Yes, the gallery for Carrara looks like in-game graphics from 5 years ago, although the promotional video was pretty cool. I still think it would be fun to play with, but most of its features are unnecessary to my current work. Right now, it's looking like it's going to be 3D Coat to buy, and maybe I'll dip into Blender to check out some other 3D aspects like animation and such. So far, Blender is looking like the UI version of POV-Ray. I'll probably follow 3D Coat with the Animation version of Terragen, then see where we go from there.
You mean not free for you, or anyone? Because lots of us have free legal copies. INcluding people who have not been in school for some time. If you need help finding the page, PM me.
My ideal would be MODO with MUD, or MAri when MAri is OSX ready... For High quality modeling only.
But I have MUD and Maya, because they were free, even though I have been out of school for a while now.
Anyway,
Modo is your best bet if modeling is your focus. You really cant use a sculpter for anything without also having a modeling package. Buying 3D coat and using blender does not make much sense to me at all. Better to get MODO and use PS for painting.
Modo is on sale until christmas for 60% off.
A sculpter is not a modeler. YOu will not have much fun with your sculpts without a modeler working along side.
And while TG can handle raw sculpts (to a certain point (very memory intensive)), its only ideal if the sculpt will be very close to the camera. Otherwise, there is almost no reason to import a raw sculpt.
If you buy 3D coat, but don't have a dependable Modeler to use with it, I think you will find that you waisted your money.
http://3d-coat.com/tutorial/free-tutorial/connection-with-other-apps/
You are right too Michael .
I for one will buy 3dCoat because of its re-topology,UV features and sculpting mostly.
Because i already have a modeler that does have a great modeler plugin .
See how he makes that scene in 1 hour with LWCad http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9ln4TP8z-c
But i had Lightwave already and this plugin ( 299 $) brings the old Lightwave modeler at the level of the best modelers around and probably much better too.
But for sculpting you have to look to others like 3DCoat or zbrush.
So it depends.For Archviz Lightwave and LWcad is a great combination for example...
This is the reason why some users use more then one software after a while.
There is no software that is the best in all.
Hi Kardi,
I like Lightwave from what I have seen.
I really like what I saw of the lightwave sculptor! It looked VERY VERY impressive. https://www.lightwave3d.com/chronosculpt/
But my impression is just from the video in this case. I did not compare chronosculpt to mud, Mari, Z, line by line.
Yes I think for modeling its just as you say, Kadri. It is a good solution.
Please look at the LWcad video link i gave above too Michael.
Lightwave Modeler with and without that plugin is so much different.
I have it but still had no time to use it much unfortunately.
Quote from: TheBadger on December 20, 2013, 07:40:44 AM
You mean not free for you, or anyone? Because lots of us have free legal copies. INcluding people who have not been in school for some time. If you need help finding the page, PM me.
My ideal would be MODO with MUD, or MAri when MAri is OSX ready... For High quality modeling only.
But I have MUD and Maya, because they were free, even though I have been out of school for a while now.
Anyway,
Modo is your best bet if modeling is your focus. You really cant use a sculpter for anything without also having a modeling package. Buying 3D coat and using blender does not make much sense to me at all. Better to get MODO and use PS for painting.
Modo is on sale until christmas for 60% off.
A sculpter is not a modeler. YOu will not have much fun with your sculpts without a modeler working along side.
And while TG can handle raw sculpts (to a certain point (very memory intensive)), its only ideal if the sculpt will be very close to the camera. Otherwise, there is almost no reason to import a raw sculpt.
If you buy 3D coat, but don't have a dependable Modeler to use with it, I think you will find that you waisted your money.
http://3d-coat.com/tutorial/free-tutorial/connection-with-other-apps/
I have no doubt people can get free copies of Maya. Just as I have no doubt I will not be one of them. Congratulations on being among the favoured, but I am not. I will make use of whatever modelling tools I can from Hexagon, Wings, and Blender, and that will have to be enough. At least for now.
Besides which, I can't even get 3D Coat to work on my machine, so I may not purchase it at all. You might think it is pointless to have without a good modeller, but it is equally pointless to spend $1000 min. to have a good modeller that offers nothing over and above what I can already do with freeware.
Quotebut it is equally pointless to spend $1000 min. to have a good modeller that offers nothing over and above what I can already do with freeware.
True.
If in fact they are equal. Some here think wings is better than just about any paid app. I don't know. It very well could be.
QuoteCongratulations on being among the favoured
Thanks! It a first for me. Cant say I feel like life is better for it. But Illl take it.
I guess this just comes down to if the free stuff does what you need, and or, if learning those free softs will benefit you in the long run Vs. learning soft more in use in the industry, or if that even matters. For me it matters. But in modeling at least, the basic skills are all the same. Its just nice to have tools that work is all.
I'm curious as to why no one mentioned Silo in this thread...
Quote from: Upon Infinity on December 23, 2013, 12:03:16 PM
I'm curious as to why no one mentioned Silo in this thread...
Is Silo still being developed or even supported? I used it for a few years -- nice program -- and then the developers began ignoring it. They archived their forum at Nevercenter in 2012 and the "new" forum at CGTalk is rather dead.
Read this thread here: http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=175&s=93d5a3ca74206cc4d9fbc1359836545d&t=1142018
Quote from: jaf on December 23, 2013, 12:48:59 PM
Quote from: Upon Infinity on December 23, 2013, 12:03:16 PM
I'm curious as to why no one mentioned Silo in this thread...
Is Silo still being developed or even supported? I used it for a few years -- nice program -- and then the developers began ignoring it. They archived their forum at Nevercenter in 2012 and the "new" forum at CGTalk is rather dead.
Read this thread here: http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=175&s=93d5a3ca74206cc4d9fbc1359836545d&t=1142018
I didn't know that. I only just heard about it. But just because its not supported doesn't mean it stops working as a modeller. I'm coming from Hexagon so if you want to talk about dead software... It comes in at the price point I mentioned and it is a pure modeller, so I was surprised it didn't come up.
If it were me, and I've spent over a decade looking for the magic software (teehee), I would get 3D Coat while it's on sale and learn Blender.
Here's a good example of what can be done with Blender - http://www.blenderpedia.com/index.php/products, plus the many movies made with Blender are a good advertisement and some of the Blender training via Jonathan Williamson (and many others) can teach you things you never thought possible. Literally, I've tried dozens of tutorials from many packages, but I've learned more about 3D modeling software from the Blender crowd than just about all of the others put together.
If you can get educational software prices, you might consider Modo or Lightwave. Otherwise, 3D Coat and Blender make a dynamic pair.
Quote from: rcallicotte on December 23, 2013, 11:19:37 PM
If you can get educational software prices, you might consider Modo or Lightwave. Otherwise, 3D Coat and Blender make a dynamic pair.
Yeah, it's definitely looking like 3D Coat. I can use hexagon to do basic stuff until I learn Blender. As it is, 3D Coat is going to take me a solid 4 weeks, I'm guessing, to be confident with it. It's a fascinating piece of software, although a lot more complicated than I thought it would be. That's the great thing about Terragen; it has options for beginners until you grasp how the nodes work. But yes, the sale price is too good to let slip for the value it will provide.
If you don't mind, if you are a frequent user of 3D Coat, I may PM you for advice on certain things? After 4 days, I finally managed to start importing textured objects into Terragen, so I'm confident I can handle most of the things that will come my way, but it does help to know there is someone around with experience.
Thanks to all who replied. I found this a very useful thread.
I don't want to underestimate another piece of software, which has been a great deal and is very easy (once you get its interface) - zBrush. Version 5.0 is in the future ether and might well be 64-bit. Nevertheless, zBrush handles about anything and the many tools it has are innovative.
Quote from: Upon Infinity on December 23, 2013, 11:46:23 PM
Quote from: rcallicotte on December 23, 2013, 11:19:37 PM
If you can get educational software prices, you might consider Modo or Lightwave. Otherwise, 3D Coat and Blender make a dynamic pair.
Yeah, it's definitely looking like 3D Coat. I can use hexagon to do basic stuff until I learn Blender. As it is, 3D Coat is going to take me a solid 4 weeks, I'm guessing, to be confident with it. It's a fascinating piece of software, although a lot more complicated than I thought it would be. That's the great thing about Terragen; it has options for beginners until you grasp how the nodes work. But yes, the sale price is too good to let slip for the value it will provide.
If you don't mind, if you are a frequent user of 3D Coat, I may PM you for advice on certain things? After 4 days, I finally managed to start importing textured objects into Terragen, so I'm confident I can handle most of the things that will come my way, but it does help to know there is someone around with experience.
Thanks to all who replied. I found this a very useful thread.
Yes, I've heard of ZBrush. Although I don't know if I could underestimate it. For $800, it better do exactly what I want it to. ;)
Don't let this page put you off. 3D Coat is excellent value. Yes, it's a bit strange but they are honest people:
http://3d-coat.com/company/our-voice/
I'm biased to Linux. That's all I use now so all these apps are Linux as well as Windows and OSX.
All round best app including value (considering it's aiming at trying to be an industry standard app) is Modo but it's still not that cheap.
3D Coat can't be beaten for sculpting purposes (considering cost) but it's actually still be best in some areas as far as I'm concerned.
Blender is a must have no brainer. You can do a whole lot with that app. There are a some deficiencies and that's why Modo is much better but Blender can do a few things that other apps can't. It's got much better with cycles rendering engine which I think gets awesomely realistic results. In fact once Blender cycles gets voumetrics it starts moving back to being decent for landscape again. Most people don't get this but some of these programs can achieve similar results to Terragen or Vue now and with less hassle and all the other extras you get with these kinds of programs. That's one reason I stopped using Terragen and didn't upgrade but that's a whole other story. I've abandonned the procedural planetary scale type idea. Blender isn't quite there for this but I expect it will be eventually with various updates needed for cycles.
One of the best basic modelers is Wings 3D but you have to spend some time working it out. Once you do it all makes sense.
I'd drop Hexagon if I were you. I have that from years back but I haven't used it for years. It had massive potential but ended up a reliability disaster.
Yeah, I caught your thread on Wings 3D from earlier in the year. I am looking at breaking my Hexagon habit, although I've finally gotten it to a point where it only crashes as much as Terragen (which isn't that often). Now I'm learning 3D coat, so 1 program at a time... Sorry to hear you not needing Terragen. Personally, I've found it (almost) perfect for creating a lot of good, generic landscapes for a project I'm working on. It could use a little tampering here and there, but the price was right and it does for my purposes. Blender (if I need it at all) will have to be on the backburner until the spring.
Terragen is actually a very stable app in my experience. I have no complaints there. I'm not happy with Terragen's features. I spent some time trying to do Terragen type stuff in other apps so I could have complete control of everything and can make the scene however I wish. Modo is best for this. You can even do full volumetric clouds and not with mesh but the same way it's done in Terragen. I have some semi finished scenes that are like nothing anybody else has done in Modo but I'm tired of the complexity of landscapes no matter what the app. Terragen landscapes have a tendancy to all look similar and that's what I don't like. You need masses of different procedural ways to get forms. Terragen lacks this.
I highly recommend Wings 3D but I guess it does depend on what you are doing. If it's organic then obviously 3D Coat is brilliant. The point of Wings is that it's contextual. You right click to do everything and if you learn it properly you will find all sorts of processes involving key commands that flow extremely logically without a stack of UI glut. Don't be fooled by masses of fancy UI. Sometimes the best apps look simple. Mypaint is a classic of that sort. It essentially has one brush engine but a massively powerful one that can be tweaked in lots of different ways. Key commands are all well sorted. Compare to Sketchbook Pro. That looks really chic and it is quite good but I actually prefer Mypaint. The only thing I find is that going from Wings to other apps kind of throws you off a bit. The default for mouse is different for example. You can sculpt the mesh in Wings. Not high mesh density sculpting but you can tweak everything around in a really nice way. The selection process in Wings is unique and superb. I'm not a big fan of Blender's modeling but the dynamic mesh sculpting is quite good and you can add procedural modifiers to the mesh which is very cool. Most apps don't do this, including Modo. However, one reason Modo beats Blender is that Modo can handle very big scenes and that's why it works for landscapes.
I used to use Carrara heavily for rendering and animation, but I ended up switching over to Blender because it's rendering and compositing engine was so much more versatile and powerful, and this was even before the new Cycles rendering engine was launched. It does take time to get used to the way Blender does things (some of which don't make any sense), but in my opinion it is a much more powerful modeling, animation, simulation and rendering app than Carrara, and integrating Blender with Terragen is very easy. And Blender is free (as in free beer).
If you think Carrara can not produce realistic Landscapes and/or forested scenes then please have look at HowieFarkes gallery here:
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/browse.php?user_id=237321
I think it's mainly the name 'DAZ3D' that puts people off of Carrara. It really shouldn't, though. Eovia used to be the Carrara company, and DAZ pretty much have changed nothing in terms of UI or usability, just made it more easy to integrate DAZ and Poser character and prop animation, which is only one tinx area. The general program remains true to itself. Nothing comes close to all round functionality, except the high end proffesional packages that everyone knows, at 10x the price.
* Oh, man! That 3D Coat page is amazing, Kadri! I thought that must have been a joke to begin with! It's really not, though, eh! :D
Quote from: dandelO on January 11, 2014, 09:22:36 AM
* Oh, man! That 3D Coat page is amazing, Kadri! I thought that must have been a joke to begin with! It's really not, though, eh! :D
:)
I actually respect them more for that disclaimer/personal appeal. Takes balls to put your self out there in a world filled with mockers. And risk loosing money in favor of keeping your own values.
But I would still use their soft for whatever I wanted if I bought it. Its not for them to decide whats good or bad, or right or wrong. Thats literally an artists job. or even to ignore the questions completely, which in its self is art.
Besides, what would they say to their soft being used to make literal images of chapters from the bible? Some of it would be beautiful, but some would be filled with blood and screaming!
aw yeah blender is the best !