Planetside Software Forums

I don't know if you're interested to follow this, but it's not too much trouble for me to post some images again. So here goes; new park to be made near a castle. Just pasture land now, but it will be lush and diverse, with 'sunbath fields', 'leisure walk paths', natural areas, perhaps a folly (nice!).
First tests, refining veggies and such.

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Are they real photos or a terragen renders ???
really you confused me...
N.KAID

I like it. I wonder where this one lands.  :)

I know that an artist never shares their secrets, but could you at least spill the beans what was the detail value of the last image? Are you using the planetary grass shader or just populated the area with grass objects? I think there are at least two types of grass there.

The grass is just some colors (PF), a no color PF with small 'hillocks' (like 0.5/1.5/0.01, displaced 20cm), only in the rougher grass areas, and one fake stone shader of 0.005m, 12 high, density 2, no color. Plus some tiny fractals masked by patchy fractals for the flowers. Rendered at detail 0.5, AA5 I think.

Wow Ulco, especially the second image is almost perfect! I'd love to see this one with some more plants (a little empty at the moment, but as you said you're still refining) and with soft shadows enabled. I guess this would be really very close to photorealistic.

It's a very early setup, just plunked some species in. Some veggies needed lighter or darker bark or the leaves were too translucent, which I'm working on right now. The challenge with this one is to keep it fast to render as it will be animated. Soft shadows is probably out for the animation; took 46 minutes, while normal shadows took 20 minutes. Tight budget  :(

What if you render soft shadows without jitter? This causes visible banding in stills, but often in animation you can't notice it.

It looks pretty good btw...too bad the budget is too tight to squeeze out more detail, more objects and higher rendersettings.

Hopefully some day we get a new raytracer which deals much better and faster with our vegetation.

Hi Ulco,  Your images are just about perfect.  Almost photographic in fact.  Could you tell us whose trees you are using.  This lot actually look to have real foliage.

regards,
Rat.

Looking forward to the animation Ulco  ;)

@Rat: I make my own in XF and ST.

@Martin: I'll try that.

Thanks Ulco, just what I suspected.  Once made, save 'em, right?

rat.

Ok, so as far as the procedural grass you have going on here goes, that is the best I have seen yet. I agree it does look as close as photo-realistic as it gets. I want to replicate that, badly, because it is just too cumbersome to use real grass objects over such a large space and I have lots of grassy scenes in mind :)

I am sure this is going to turn out to be a stunner once again when you are labeling this as 'very early setup'.

The second one is my fave.  It is sooooo good.  Even your WIP images are near perfection.

Here's the grass setup. It's not that complicated. You only need to make some masks (if needed) for the different types (inside), and line it up in your line of surface shaders. I've got some areas that are less rough, or more flowery, and paths that are masked in or out inside.

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Dude you're a class act... those pics are awesome!

Looks better and better Ulco.

Did you use non-jittered soft shadows already on this one?
If so, how did it work out? I see you changed POV and such so you can't compare it with the previous one, but I'm still curious nonetheless.

Very realistic.  That is a very clever way of doing grass, thanks for sharing.

Hi, Im just curious. This is a commissioned work, right? And its for a castle? So it is a visualization for a landscaping project at a real and historical location? Or the castle is 3D too, and this is all for a printed image? IM sorry if I missed something obvious yet again, but it sounded a little like there is a real castle some place that this is for?

Great looking images anyway, Ulco. Always enjoy these threads.

It's near a castle, and a new park to be made where ther's just meadowland now. Commissioned yes.

And Martin, no no SoShnoJ yet I want to have the terrain and veggies down first. I'll try it later on, perhaps in a crop-animation.

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Ahh! Well thats real cool! Can we see a photo of the castle?

NIce images yet again Ulco.

Looks great Ulco!

Thank you for the clip!  8)  The island looks perfect.

These are looking really great Ulco. This is the kind of project I'd like to make it really easy to use TG for.

Regards,

Jo

Such a nice pleasure to view these images. Most inspirational. You sure know how to invoke enthusiasm.

And, thank you for the clip file of the Parkwood Grass.

Here you go. Pack your bags....

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Thanks for the grass clip. Promise I'll play with that sometime very soon. ;D

Great castle render! ;)

2 minutes work. I know I'm good  ;D ;D ;D

Beautiful! Everything in the castle picture is wonderful. I especially love the water.

U serious?

:D

Ulco, you can post photos and renders and it can be hard to tell the difference sometimes, certainly on first sight.  You should not be surprised... 8)

Tu pourrai utiliser mon château ? ^^

You will be able to use my castle ? ^ ^

I don't have to do the castle, just the park. Tight budget, so it better be this way. More time for private stuff as well.

Looks like something I saw in France 2 years ago ! Superb realism for everything ! The park actually looks like some if the pictures I took ! Excellent !
Paul

More tests. I have to figure out how to do the surroundings of the park. I'm not going to fill it up with all buildings and highways that are there, so I use low cloud, or a complete whiteout outside a certain circle (terrain as well). Next will be cows, gates, and inside buildings. Have to keep it low in memory (and work) though. The willows need a lighter bark.

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Ulco, for goodness sake! What do you STILL want from those renders? They are good already by my standards.  :D

On a side note, do you think you could provide this fabulous grass shader in a TG2 version clip file? ;) If no, perhaps a screenshot of the node network so I can tweak it by myself.

Well, for one, the willows need to be on the borders of the ditch, and it needs refinement in veggies, especially for closeups. So I've made a 'clump' of grass and willow sprouts that go around the bases of each tree (same seed), so they don't stand so 'naked' on the grass.

here's the clip as TG2. Should work.

Quote from: otakar on February 06, 2014, 12:44:25 PM
Ulco, you can post photos and renders and it can be hard to tell the difference sometimes, certainly on first sight.  You should not be surprised... 8)

Yeah, I have to look close every once and awhile too. The thumbnails can really be tricky! There are more than a few people here who have fooled me a bit.

But on that castle.
That is the one thing Europe and the rest of the old world will ALWAYS have over the states. We will never have that kinda stuff here >:( The time is passed and is never coming back :'(

@ Ulco - thank you so very much! :) Preshaydit.

@ Badger - Don't feel bad about it dude! US on the other hand has fabulous deserts, salt flats, canyons and endless prairies none of which can be found in Europe. Not in a million years quite literally! ;D

lol! Yeah, but it would be better to have a castle over looking those places you mention  ;D

Get stinkin' rich and build one. Some US citizens do  ;) Chinese as well  :D

Funny, I'm living next to a castle. It's a nice one. Maybe I can ask if they are selling it?!

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Well, that's not the wrong place to live!

Yeah, we've got a couple castles man, don't despair! Heck, one of them is even close to me, apparently (Calistoga).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_castles_in_the_United_States

- Oshyan

The choronr Castle in Arizona.

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Hi Hannes. I hate you.

Hey bob. I lived in Tempe for 4 years. Loved it out there. Hope to move back at some point. The desert suits me just fine.

 ;D ;D ;D

Quote from: TheBadger on February 14, 2014, 04:12:22 PM
Hey bob. I lived in Tempe for 4 years. Loved it out there. Hope to move back at some point. The desert suits me just fine.

Yes, dry, warm; and, developed the art of catching flies with my tongue.

@ ULco,
If I become that rich I think I will build an army rather than a castle. Its much cooler to capture a castle than to build one! And you got too many anyway. Hannes' castle, Ill just raze to the ground though..Damn Germans.

I'll defend to the death my castle! Today I finished my chainmail shirt and I have a sword! So I'll be waiting for you.

@Bob: is there any footage that shows your skills?  ;D

Sorry, Ulco. I just noticed that we are quite off topic...

^^ Leave it to the Europeans to bring a sword to a gun fight  ;D Sorry too Ulco, but the idea of playing capture the flag with real castles is too much fun to ignore.

Quote from: Hannes on February 14, 2014, 04:59:03 PM
I'll defend to the death my castle! Today I finished my chainmail shirt and I have a sword! So I'll be waiting for you.

@Bob: is there any footage that shows your skills?  ;D

Sorry Hannes, I don't have a high speed camera. And, if I did, my wife would have to take the pictures - but, she wouldn't take them anyway because she finds it disgusting ...LOL. I've learned the skill by watching the lizards in our yard.

Here we have a man defending his castle,  8)
A man recruiting an army to invade this castle,  ::)
and a man catching flies with his tongue.  :o

What an epic heroic-fantasy team !!!!  ;D

Still trying to find what is my ability and I come to join you  ???

David  ;)

Think we're all affected with a warp shader.

What a simple render can do, it can bring armies and knock down castles. No worries guys, I just open a new thread, knock yourselves out  ;D

Quote from: TheBadger on February 14, 2014, 04:44:03 PM
@ ULco,
If I become that rich I think I will build an army rather than a castle. Its much cooler to capture a castle than to build one! And you got too many anyway. Hannes' castle, Ill just raze to the ground though..Damn Germans.

Yes and on top of that you get to keep the spoils,.......... like the young wenches  :P

Yes, if I am to build an empire on War, I will need to breed slaves :o At some point a Spartacus will probably rise up, but that will be the problem of my descendants  ;D

Hey! I have to be "good" and "upright" in my real life, don't make me do it in my fantasy life too!

2 of the finals (reduced). Credits to Dorian for his adapted cows.

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Superb Ulco, honestly some of your best work yet. I mean, maybe "boring" subject matter, but some pretty incredible realism. Add some photo filter "flaws" like a bit of chromatic aberration, subtle vignette, and softer corners and you'd have photos. :D

- Oshyan

Thanks, Oshyan. I still have to find out how to add chromatic abberation in PS....

Superb!Your use of vegetation is stunning and inspiring.

Ulco, this is really fantastic!!!!! One minor crit: the black of the cows seems to be too black. Compared to the rest of the image it looks a bit too dark, at least in my opinion.

Very nice.
Especially like the grassy surfaces.

Very sharp, Hannes, thanks. I think I agree with you (I know I put a pure black fractal in the pop). A little more reflection may also be good on the cows.
Now up to making an animation of this, and I already though to give that train some speed (that would be cool). Easy to do anyway, easier than keeping frame render time under 25 minutes and still have a smooth 1600x900 animation of 1 minute....

Just beautiful.

As always, great attention to details; every step of the way ...inspiring enthusiasm is what you also deliver.

THose are sweet!!!

Only prob I see, is that the guy and girl in red and black are used twice. They appear to be the same, but with reversed colors. I would use different colors altogether.

Other than that, Its really really good.

They are 2 sets of identical twins..............that way you can make sure you're with the right person.  :P

 ;D

Actually, they are different, Michael. The girl on the path is a cheerie person with a profound interest in dachshunds, the guy is a professional rugby player, but without employment at the moment, and very handy with a razor. The girl on the grass has a mental problem, and has been on sleeping pills for a few years, but now that she's met the middle aged schoolteacher (who loves his children, but never touches them), she's slowly climbing out of a difficult period (involving her parents and an auntie, who's not too keen on dachshunds). The latter is in fact the only thing these couples have in common; the bloody dachshund.

I do confirm what Ulco says as I met one of the twins while running there.  ::)

 :( I feel sorry for them. Its like their lives are just passing them by. probably their all cheating on each other too. I hope the depressed girl doesn't try to suicide her self when she learns the truth by drowning in that nice lake. Im sure it would ruin the fishing there.

Been gone for a few days and just now catching up.
All I can say is 'Wowsers!!

Creative minds at work.

Really amazing stuff!

Awesome work Ulco. :)

Excellents !!!  :)

A last image. Dorian is helping me with animating this, so I tried to minimize render time by making the water not transparent (transparency is faked here). Also added some procedural water lilies. I'm really looking forward to have this animated, and will give a link in due time.

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Excellent!

Beautiful; you can feel the warmth coming through.

Looks nice Ulco!
Curious about the animation.

Very very nice.

cool

you have a gift man, big time

It's on the web, with a tremendous thanks to Dorian for his fabulous work on the animation! This is compressed of course:
https://www.natuurmonumenten.nl/natuurgebied/landgoed-haarzuilens/parkbos-de-haar (https://www.natuurmonumenten.nl/natuurgebied/landgoed-haarzuilens/parkbos-de-haar)

Very good job Ulco. And the same for Dorian. Animation is great

BRAVO!  8) You win a gold star and a gif  :)

[attach=1]

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Wonderful - excellent job.

Congratulations to You and Dorian! A very nicely rendered animation, with beautiful content. It's all excellent, but I especially liked the water and the lighting.

Awesome. Such talent.

Good animation. :)  8)

An absolutely outstanding presentation of art and technical capabilities.

Yes! Very cool. That water is really mesmerizing :)

Quote from: otakar on April 14, 2014, 12:52:37 PM
Yes! Very cool. That water is really mesmerizing :)

Yeah! I thought so too.
But I thought when Ulco wrote what he wrote, that he was saying it was some kind of undesirable compromise. But I also thought it looked very good. In fact, I thought it looked perfect for calm waters. NO?

How would that water look from say, about 5-6 feet above? Any issues there?

Ulco, you said that you did it the way that you did for render time. So it was faster and required less ram? What are the disadvantages to doing it this way, if any? please elaborate on the topic.

I was under the impression (but I should test it more) that non-transparent water rendered faster than transparent. And I know that's a fact for turbulant water. I can't remember now what actual differences were, but I probably didn't choose doing it this way just for the fun of it. For water like this you wouldn't notice a difference between just a color variation plus reflection, or a calculated 'depth'. I only had to give the shallowest areas a color close to the dry ground, and deeper water a darker color.
And for this animation we wanted the absolute minimum in render time. For foliage and avoiding flicker it still needed to be really high, but transparent water might have (not sure) upped that even more. Well that's the story  ;) 

By the way, did you notice the train (upper left) and the cyclist (near the end, coming along on left path)? And the water lilies; procedural.

I saw the train right away. It really helped to create depth and interest by the fact that it was moving. I missed the biker though. Will have to look again.
The hawk would have been better if the wings flapped once or twice just as it came into the shot. But I know that would have been difficult to get done.

Whoops! I did not saw that you posted the animation Ulco.
Looks very nice. Congrats :)
It is half HD.Is there a full HD version?

Nice to see the final animation. 8)
Noticed the water lilies,but not that they are procedural.

There is a full HD version (800MB) but not on the web. Sorry.

Quote from: Dune on April 15, 2014, 01:52:54 AM

By the way, did you notice the train (upper left) and the cyclist (near the end, coming along on left path)? And the water lilies; procedural.

I missed both. I was too focused on the park and the cyclist I would never have seen had you not pointed out where he appears. I think it's the shadows that hide him from view (and the fact that he zooms past like a racer :) ).

Next time I will make these things more prominent. I would have liked to see the train better also.

Quote from: Dune on April 16, 2014, 01:29:04 AM
There is a full HD version (800MB) but not on the web. Sorry.

:)

800mb? A full HD movie is about 4-5 GB or so. Is this a question of compression technology or what?
What I mean is, if your video was 2-3 hours, it would be much larger than the hobbit. Can someone explain that to me please.

woah!
lekker!
...the cyclist needs a bell!
this is Really Amazing Ulco (and Dorian)
is that a Snipe at the end?
the bleating sound... 'drumming of the snipe' or sky goat, goat of the air or even baby goat... etc in Gaelic...
I hear it here in Ireland... really spooky on dark evenings in the middle of nowhere!
:)
J

It's a quicktime movie, don't know how compressed, but 799.000kB for sure. 1700x1100px or so.

And yes, it's a snipe (fantastic sound, rare here I'm afraid). They wanted some bird sounds in it, even some species that I knew didn't exist there, like common rosefinch and northern nightingale (instead of the 'normal' nightingale. I 'complained' about that, but they said it was a 'joke' for birders, and just to get them sharp. Most people wouldn't notice it anyway. I put in about 7 species or so.
The snipe is a nice finale.

your job (you and Dorian) is very impressed.
there are lot of details which make real things. 

Quote from: TheBadger on April 16, 2014, 05:15:45 PM
800mb? A full HD movie is about 4-5 GB or so. Is this a question of compression technology or what?
What I mean is, if your video was 2-3 hours, it would be much larger than the hobbit. Can someone explain that to me please.

A full HD movie can be so small as the encoder is capable and the values you used
or as big as the uncompressed image format you used for the individual frames Michael.
In that aspect there is no thing as "A full HD movie is about 4-5 GB or so.".
It can be 1 GB or less compressed or as in a Blu-ray disk 25 GB (still compressed) or much more.
Look here for example:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncompressed_video
look at the  "Storage and Data Rates for Uncompressed Video" especially.
You will be surprised how big they can get Michael.

If you begin to work with feature movie length videos
you have to use loss less compressed image formats anyway
depending on your storage capacity or even for much shorter videos.
Some of our friends here work in that kind of environment.
They could say more from first hand experience.

800 mb is so or so a very small amount compressed or not.

By the way if you download(!) HD movies in the size of 4-5 GB i think you forget what HD is about.
You loose detail. And yeah with a good big TV you can see the difference.
-Not always and it depends on many other things.So you can be fooled of course-
But yes not everybody does have a big tv and is so obsessed with that kind of image detail
so from some point further it is -kinda- subjective.
Sometimes a good encoded quality 720p video can fool you.
It depends on from how far you watch and the size of your TV (and the kind of movie,fast motions or cartoon etc).
We have a 65" Plasma TV so we get more picky .
If you still wanted in any case a (subjective) number from me
i would say a good encoded standard HD movie around 8-10 GB would be good (minimum) to watch to me.
This is another of those things you have to read more to know because there are many things to consider.
Just a random page but it may help to see many aspects :
http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/1358548
My wife didn't know and doesn't cared about those kind of things in the past for example.
Now she can see that a video doesn't have high detail as it should be and is much more aware of such things.